FYI: I don't think he has an injury history outside of the high ankle sprain and was trying to be subtle. wink
Well that was his 3rd sprain of the same ankle, the last two having cost him 4 & 5 games, respectively. Maybe he never has another problem. But repeated injury of the same joint is a concern. If you just want to hand-wave it away, that's fine. I hope you end up being right.
I am not a medical expert by any stretch of the imagination. However, my experience has been that you hurt your ankle due to something unnatural occurring and that they happen to almost everyone who plays sports. I think you are more prone to hurting them again if you rush back, but I don't see them as a chronic thing like someone who has knee, shoulder, or elbow injuries.
Myles had a couple of bad ankle injuries, but he played all of last year w/out getting hurt. I think you just have to give them time to heal.
I agree and disagree. I don't think the 40 is important for a guard, but I can see that a couple of the drills measure explosion and that is important for exploding out of your stance. That gives you a big edge if you win that battle. I also think drills that measure lateral movement are important for linemen.
Sounds like good common sense to me. If Vernon is a good to very good player it is a big upgrade for us because you are pairing him with MG, one of the better young pass rushers who hasn't even reached his ceiling. Pick up a run stuffing DL, another one for depth, a good LB or 2 and we could have one of the best front 7's in the league.
Well, one thing's for sure...we have no depth on the interior o-line now.
For some reason I see us going after an old guy for once. A 1-year pact with the injury prone TJ Lang (the never-ending Green Bay connection), perhaps?
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
GC. Some are commenting along the lines they may feel Austin Corbett has an opportunity to step up and can be good just like any guard can be good,
Thus their feeling of Corbett replacing Zeitler skews their impression of the impact or winner/loser of this trade.
I have my own skew on my feelings of this trade,
I feel Corbett didn't get playing time because he already proved others better, thus,
my skew is I feel Corbett is a little bit less good than a below average guard,
I am also skewed most largely in my feeling that Zeitler is/was a generational OG, especially in run blocking and won't be easily replaced, maybe for years.
Much like many on here feel Joe Thomas was a generational LT, and I appreciate his pass protection but think a slight bit less of him than the consensous opinion this board has always held.
It is what it is, If I felt Corbett and Zeitler were closer in abilities, then it wouldn't be "as much" of a bad move in my mind for the Browns, but I don't.
( If I felt the Browns could draft an O-lineman who could be really good, then I'd hope, but pretty much 4 of the last 5 they selected have tanked. ?:.. at least in a Browns uniform.)
I look at that numbers and see if anything is glaring.
Some numbers you don't want to see.
At the same time there have been guys who blew up the Combine and fell flat afterwards.
Vernon Gholston comes to mind.
I agree...I think the combine can help confirm or deny what is seen on tape...but it should NEVER trump what is seen on tape. I also agree with the comment about Senior Bowl - and other all-star type bowl games - practice week(s).
What the senior bowl tells us has a lot to do with transition. Something the combine can't.
If you put a player with a coach he has never worked with before, how can he transition into what the coach is trying to install in a very short period of time and how does he perform in such an environment? To me that's a very valuable tool.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Too early to tell on Corbett, but the two lineman before him were pretty sketch.
Shon Coleman and Cam Erving (at least sketch in Brown and Orange, as you said).
Before that though, Bitonio, Schwartz, Lavao, Mack, Thomas...overall the team has done quite well picking O-lineman in the first two days of the draft. I can't believe Bitonio is all that's left of that.
People ask me what I do in spring when there's no football. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for fall
Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the trade. There is always some risk when moving players. I like the trade from Cleveland's perspective. As it has been stated many times already in this thread, none of us have been in the building, meeting rooms, or on the field with any of the players. The front office must have felt that in A. Corbett, they had a player who is ready to start. They were trading from a position of strength. The interior of our offensive line is arguably the strongest part of the team. They take an initial small hit with our line depth, but we have free agency and the draft ahead of us. There is plenty of time to replenish line depth before the first game.
Olivier Vernon is a very good pass rusher. We all knew the team needed to upgrade at DE and DT. We now have a highly graded DE added to the DL. Again, we traded away from strength to upgrade a unit that needed it.
Pretty good trade for both teams. If the small gamble of Corbett works out, the small hit of losing Zeitler is blown away by the addition of Vernon. The Giants needed to upgrade their line and they did.
I find it funny how many bashed Corbett for not getting playing time being a second round pick. Now that he will be getting his chance, people are acting as if he was a bust. The kid was being talked about as the starting left guard when Bitonio was moved to tackle, he must have showed something. IMO, a year on the bench learning and getting stronger could help immensely.
Many teams draft OL in the first couple rounds and let the sit and develop. The Browns have never been in a position to do this. I have faith in the FO when it comes to Corbett.
I better clarify my comments. In no way was I contending that the Combine is more important than what a player does on the field. I was simply having a conversation about that some of the drills are useful in helping paint a more vivid picture of a guy and they are not useless.
Moving on...........there sure is a lot of negativity surrounding this trade. I think the trade is good for both teams. I also think that folks pretending they know more about talent evaluation and building a football team than Dorsey is preposterous. Dorsey has proven himself, which is a far cry from most of the previous dudes who ran our front offices.
Agree. I guess it's our job to always second guess, and we have the scars to prove that it has often been valid.
My bottom line. Dorsey continues to do what I've said he does best... expands upside while mitigating risk. The gap between Zeitler and Corbett is (in my mind, and obviously Dorsey's as well) much greater than the gap between Ogbah and Vernon. As is the gap between offensive and defensive efficiency.
Furthermore, the best OLine in the world will never make your QB and RB great, but a solid QB and running game will always make your OLine look much better. Our line raised a lot of questions before last season - they seem justified with Tyrod taking snaps and Hyde ripping of his 2-3 yard runs. Enter Baker and Chubb - different story.
This moves gives us a lot more flexibility in FA and the draft. Addresses a serious need without much risk and adds a whopping 4 million to the cap.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Moving on...........there sure is a lot of negativity surrounding this trade. I think the trade is good for both teams. I also think that folks pretending they know more about talent evaluation and building a football team than Dorsey is preposterous. Dorsey has proven himself, which is a far cry from most of the previous dudes who ran our front offices.
This is what taking BPA allows you to do. You created a position group of really good depth by staying true to your board. This allows you to make trades like this. The Browns traded away an outstanding player for another outstanding player. The difference between the Browns and the Giants is there's a chance the Browns have another hopefully outstanding player to replace the guy that was traded.
I also Zeitler's contract was going to be a problem after this year.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
Good point that the Giants might not have a decent pass rusher to replace Vernon. Maybe they do? I'm not just aware of him. Their OL was dreadful, though. So, I can see how it makes sense for them.
I find it funny actually.. when we have depth on the OL or DL .. people want to trade it away, or complain that the player is a bust because it isn't starting. If that depth is traded or goes to FA, those same people scream bloody murder because there is no depth.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
I think you're right.I got myself so damned confused all I could come up with Lawrence Olivier. Not only do I not watch other NFL teams,it would appear I don't watch stupid British war movies either.
Lawrence Of Arabia is worth watching for the cinematography alone.
I think you're right.I got myself so damned confused all I could come up with Lawrence Olivier. Not only do I not watch other NFL teams,it would appear I don't watch stupid British war movies either.
Lawrence Of Arabia is worth watching for the cinematography alone.
I suppressed the urge to comment earlier, didn't want to derail the thread.
"Lawrence of Arabia was nominated for ten Oscars at the 35th Academy Awards in 1963; it won seven in total, including Best Picture and Best Director. It also won the Golden Globe Award for Best Motion Picture – Drama and the BAFTA Awards for Best Film and Outstanding British Film. In the years since, it has been recognised as one of the greatest and most influential films in the history of cinema."
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some may consider it to be a stupid movie. Other's consider it to be one of the all time greats. I'm of the latter camp.
1. #GMstrong 2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb 3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa 4. ClemenZa #1
Good point that the Giants might not have a decent pass rusher to replace Vernon. Maybe they do? I'm not just aware of him. Their OL was dreadful, though. So, I can see how it makes sense for them.
The Giants had 30 sacks last year and just traded their best pass rusher.
They have a worse pass rush than the Raiders did this year, IMO. It's really, really bad.
NRTU, but I don't think it's a coincidence that all 5 of our OLine has played LT in college, all 5 of the OLine in KC played LT in college, and a majority of the GB Oline played LT in college.
It's a philosophy of Dorsey. He believes in athletic offensive linemen. Guess what position Zeitler didn't play?
Not sure if these have already been posted but here are various reactions to the trade:
Quote:
Vernon was traded for Zeitler not because of his ho-hum pass rushing production, but because his run-stopping prowess slipped a bit in an injury-riddled 2018 campaign. He also did not quite have the premium multidirectional pliability to be a special chess piece in coordinator James Bettcher’s patented blitz packages. Instead of enduring Vernon’s $19.5 million cap hit at an edge position that Bettcher’s defensive scheme does not demand (not to the intense degree that most schemes demand, anyway), they’ll endure Zeitler’s $10 million cap hit at a right guard spot that, in their offensive scheme, does need to be filled.
A weakness of New York’s—interior O-line play—can now be a strength, with Zeitler solidifying the right guard spot opposite last year’s second-round left guard Will Hernandez. Guard play is where your rushing attack’s schematic diversity derives; the Giants suddenly have the pieces to do more than just the simple inside zone runs that have defined them in recent years. Which means Zeitler’s addition, theoretically, increases the value of arguably the team’s most important asset, Saquon Barkley.
Quote:
I really like this deal for the Giants. The financial ramifications and the pick swap are the only things keeping their grade from being a pure A.
Zeitler is one of the best players in the league at his position (which happens to be a position of major need for the Giants), and while he is under contract for two more years after this one, none of his future salary is guaranteed, so New York can elect to cut ties at any time without taking any additional dead money on the books. Zeitler counts for $10 million against the cap this year, which is less than the $15.5 million base salary Vernon was set to draw, but the trade of Vernon accelerates an $8 million dead money charge onto their books.
With Zeitler and Will Hernandez locked in at the guard spots for the next few seasons, the Giants should be much better blocking in both the run game and the pass game, which should be a big help to Saquon Barkley and whoever takes over for Eli Manning when the Giants finally realize he is done. Losing Vernon off the defensive line leaves a hole up front, but they should be able to fill the spot either in the draft or free agency with a cheaper option. Whoever they choose may not have the upside of Vernon, but it’s not like Vernon has really tapped into his upside since his first year in New York anyway.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
. Good one... 
. Yes, I'm admittedly a Sashi fan.