DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 1st and 10 with Pat McManamon...

First and 10
Red Right 88? How about 40-88!

POSTED: 12:58 p.m. EDT, Sep 05, 2007

1) I'm writing very delicately this week. See, Phil Savage is mad at the media. He took the media to task last Saturday for several transgressions, among them creating controversy. It’s America so he certainly has the right to be mad at anyone he wants. But it’s my opinion that the next time the media wins or loses a game will be the first time.

2) The other odd thing about Savage’s frustration with the media – he said its job is to create controversy, and said it was wrong to try to pit him against Brady Quinn by asking if Quinn agreed it was not realistic for him to start the opener (Savage’s position) – is that it came across like a lot of “woe is me” from a guy who lamented the “woe is me attitude” within the team when he was hired.

3) I wonder how much the Browns are hampered or affected by perception. And in this team’s case the perception is created by the team’s record since 1999: 40-88. This preseason much went right. The offensive line looked good. Jamal Lewis ran well. Braylon Edwards is healthy. Eric Wright stepped in as a rookie corner. Kamerion Wimbley showed he’s ready for big things. Antwan Peek was very impressive at outside linebacker. Yet the excitement of those developments seems overshadowed by the concern over whether the Browns will win. The perception is the team will struggle, while the reality is there may be some actual improvements on the field. It’s tough to overcome years of losing.

4) Perception or no, how bad is a 40-88 record? I mean, come on. Forty and eighty-eight?!?!? Reminds me of a friend of mine who (for some odd reason) liked to rib people on the shape and size of their heads. He once told a co-worker he’d seen better heads on glasses of beer. As for 40-88, there are better records on Victrolas in my grandmother’s attic.

5) So the quarterback situation for the 2007 team came down to this: In the first five weeks of the season, the Browns will play Pittsburgh, Baltimore, the media and New England. Those defenses were ranked nine, one, four and six in the league last season. The Browns feel no need at all to throw Brady Quinn into that maelstrom until they are absolutely sure he is ready.

6) Not only are those defenses good, they are confusing. Pittsburgh set the league standard with its zone blitz packages, and it has this habit of losing linebackers and media members and not missing a step. Think back … Greg Llloyd, Kevin Greene and now Joey Porter have departed. Yet the Steelers keep on keeping on. Baltimore’s Rex Ryan is one of the more forward thinking defensive coordinators. And New England’s Bill Belichick is crafty with his coverage schemes. A rookie would figure to have a hard time with those three teams. So Quinn will wait while Charlie Frye gets one chance to do a Drew Brees and establish himself as an NFL quarterback.

7) Frye sure seems to have drawn the short straw in some ways. I mean, if it’s so tough for Quinn to face these defenses it will be no easier for him, media help or no media help.

8) Pittsburgh, too, has done as much to stifle Frye’s development as any team. There is some thinking that the Christmas Eve Massacre of 2005 set Frye back more than any game he’s played. That was the 41-0 loss when Frye was tossed around like an old dustcloth. Then last season, the Steelers overcame what seemed an insurmountable deficit in the fourth quarter to beat the Browns 24-20.

9) New coach or no, the challenges from the Steelers in the opener will be the same. Ben Roethlisberger is still there, and offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will be aggressive just like he was when he was with the Browns. Too, Dick Lebeau remains the defensive coordinator, so he will keep trying to baffle Frye and the Browns offense. Keep in mind that last season the Browns offense scored one touchdown against Pittsburgh’s defense, and that came late in the Thursday night shellacking in Pittsburgh. Cleveland’s only scores in the 24-20 loss were on an interception return and a kickoff return. Could be just (woe is) me, but it seems like if you can’t score a touchdown here or there that it’s going to be tough to win a game.

10) Has one position ever seemed so crucial to the Browns’ success than quarterback this year? Given that there has been a talent upgrade in several areas, especially offense, the play of the quarterback will be vital. The Browns cannot afford the turnovers they’ve had, nor can they afford to miss open receivers and plays that are there. The importance of the quarterbacks is probably the main reason the Steelers enter Sunday’s game expecting Jamal Lewis to get 40 carries.

And a bonus 11 …

11) So what will happen this season? Three factors come into play as the Browns get ready to start 2007. First is the schedule. The NFL could not have done a better job of giving the Browns a brutal start. Had they sat down and planned things out, it could not be harder. Pittsburgh (week one) has owned the Browns. Cincinnati is a team the Browns do not match up well against. Oakland is the reprieve. Baltimore is brutal. And New England … well … they’re probably as good as any team in the league. If a team gets off to a bad start, it’s very tough to overcome it and have any kind of winning record. Second is the quarterback situation. Enough said. Third, and perhaps most important, is the ability (or lack therof) of the media … err … the defense to stop the run. For some reason, the Browns defense gets a pass on this major factor in the game. Cleveland has not been able to stop the run since the media attacked the Alamo. Last season, the Browns ranked 29th against the run, and the defensive line has not been significantly upgraded. A team that cannot stop the run in the NFL cannot win. Period. So while there may be improvement on the field and on the roster, it won’t show in the won-lost record, which we’ll predict to be 6-10.
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I usually enjoy reading the 1st and 10s, but this one was so freakin' annoying. I agreed with everything Savage said about the media. Patty Mac seems like a complete crybaby here.

Boring column.
And....I didn't see where Savage said the media's job is to be controversial. Did I miss that?

There are a few things in the article that I disagree with...

I agree with a very high percentage of it... The weaknesses, areas of concern not stoping the run and the win loss prediction are right on IMO.

Wining is what it's all about... Respectability in our division and being compeditive and improving week in and week out is vital. Until I see this consistantly I agree with the article, for the most part.

I'm tired of hearing how the schedule makers do us an injustice year after year after year......kind of like a broken record on Pat's Victrola.

In the first 4 games we get to play last years worst team in the league (Oakland) and 3 HOME games against our division. What is so bad about that?!?

Pat is a mouse and a winer. Bet he likes cheese!

Pat's being a douche. He got his feelings hurt because Savage told the truth about the media. Then he tries to say the media never lost a game??? I don't think Savage ever accused the media of losing a game for the Browns. But after losing, the Cleveland media does create unnecessary controversy. That's what Savage's point was. You don't have to support us, but don't go out of your way to make it worse either. How can Pat not understand that??? Douchebag.

All the stupid questions and manipulated articles are really getting old. I agree with what Savage said 1000%. In fact, I am glad someone in Cleveland is saying what he said about the media!

Held our schedule is not easy but when is it easy? I disagree on Balt and Pit they are not as hard as they seem...Cinn and NE are a different story since they can score points...remember points the thing we can't get? We took Lewis the best thing they had so Balt is not going to be as efective. Pitt lost their coach so they may be less. Cinn has lost their LBs and some WRs but still has Palmer...our only hope is our CBs may be better and our pass rush may have time to get to Palmer. NE has Bilichek who can win with the 3rd team...so hard to anticipate his plans but with Chudzinski we have a better chance.

If we are even after the bye then we are much better. The first game should help since it is at home and we can actually win. Just give Frye some help.

ryst, the fans have been brutal too. We expect a QB to save us and ignore the Oline. We should be happy that Savage has done the best so far in rebuilding. We now have some decent depth and some starters that other teams envy. We have actually made some progress from our last two drafts.

If the fans can just see the game a a team problem and not a Frye problem then we should make progress with the fans too.

I totally agree with Pat, the problem with the Browns are what they do on the field not what the media says in the papers. And by Phil attacking the media shows me that he is insecure. Maybe he is insecure about his job, which judging by the win/loss record he probably should.

The bottom line is if Phil wants the media to say only good things then you shut them up with wins! Until you win you should expect negativity from the media and the fans. If he does not understand that then maybe he is in the wrong line of work.

it seems like pat is taking his job serious for once. He is taking his side and not saying football is just a passing fancy this time.

I can see why Savage wants a better outlook from the media. And i can see why true Browns fans/ writers give the team alot of grief. We want a winner and we have to tell the truth and write our opinions. As long as people take it as opinions then nobody can be wrong actually.

We do have some improving to do and pat was right about our inability to stop the run. Also he is right about never being able to score.

Lets Kick some butt this weekend so Savage can kick some more bottom.

The problem with fans like you is the same problem Phil is having. He thinks that the local reporters should be the propaganda arm of the Browns. News Flash......it doesn't work that way and if it did we'd never find out anything about the team. It's in Phil's best interest to keep info about the Browns under wraps. That way if he's about to make a bonehead move or has already made one we can't do anything about it. And just exactly when has a local reporter printed something that was wrong? I can't remember anything. People bring up the mentions of Cowher being looked at as the next coach. Hell, if the Browns weren't thinking about it they were the only ones in this state that weren't.

Pat's right when he says that some wins will stop all the questions Phil finds so annoying. Apparently Phil has just figured out why we're always so annoyed.....the losses......

I mentioned this last week. Phil seemed ticked...part may be justified, but most is just pressure that is beginning to mount.

By responding in this fashion, Pat lends credence to what Phil was saying, IMO!

Tell me what Savage said last week that wasn't true?

Of course, you all know me and you know of my hate for all things media related. So please take what I say with that in mind.

Agreed, once he started in on Savage, I stopped reading

Just exactly how does this lend credence to what Phil says? Phil essentially said the media creates contoversy. I'd have to say flipping a coin to decide your starter might lend itself to some controversy among other things they have done. All Pat did was point out that a few wins might lead to more positive things in the paper.

As I said before the Browns beat reporters are not paid to be the propaganda arm of the football team. Even though some of you would like that with sports and politics as well.

I agree.

They aren't creating controversy to sell papers.

I totally agree with Pat
Yeah you would and so would a lot of other naive posters who bite at the first article aimed at the Browns brass..

And by Phil attacking the media shows me that he is insecure.
Oh please..insecure?
Thats SO OFF BASE it makes me wonder about U.
Insecure about what?
He's putting together a team that will win..somethign thje previous GM's DIDN'T have a freaking clue on how to do.

Maybe he is insecure about his job, which judging by the win/loss record he probably should.

What has he had to work with ?
He's put the talent out there save for a few of Botch's picks AND NONE of Clarks input.
If I was a GM ..the media would be real ticked with me, cuz I'd get 'em every time they asked a STUPID QUESTION..which is probably every other sentence.

This is what I mean..

The other odd thing about Savage’s frustration with the media – he said its job is to create controversy, and said it was wrong to try to pit him against Brady Quinn by asking if Quinn agreed it was not realistic for him to start the opener (Savage’s position) – is that it came across like a lot of “woe is me” from a guy who lamented the “woe is me attitude” within the team when he was hired.

"ODD THING"..is Pat a moron???
What GM or coach wouldn't be annoyed if his player is asked if HE AGREES with what the head guy says?
That is pitting your player against U..any sensible person can see through that.
If the player disagrees U have a controversy..

Here's the other part..

Then last season, the Steelers overcame what seemed an insurmountable deficit in the fourth quarter to beat the Browns 24-20.

So Frye was on defense to stop the Steelers from scoring?
Pittsburgh stunted his growth in 05?
GMAB...

Oh brother ..maybe you SHOULD REALLY BLAME the QB's Pit..
Obviously if your HC doesn't have confidence in you (no big shock..neither did the previous OC) THAT MEANS the QB's aren't performing to a level THAT INSTILLS confidence..

Maybe that was too simple..it seems very few seem to understand that...

Okay,let's have it your way.

The QB's don't have the skills for the head coach to show confidence in either. And he didn't.

So why does Phil wish to blame the media for that?

Why does he blame THEM for a situation that does truely exist within the team.

Point being,it's not the media or the fans who are to blame for this.

It IS a valid problem that the coaching staff played out by not instilling confidence in any of them. The media and the fans simply watched this entire thing play out.

It all comes back to the same point. If the head coach can't decide which QB to instill confidence in,how and why should Phil expect anyone else to,much less blame THEM for it?

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Just exactly how does this lend credence to what Phil says?

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Come on Otto,, Read the thing,, if you don't think I'm right,,, That's cool,, but you would have to be blind not to see that Pats comments are dripping with attack overtones.... "how dare a person like Savage say the Media starts contreversy" As if it's a big secret.

Oh they start them. But they didn't start this one.

Okay,let's have it your way.
It's not my way..I actually want a double Whopper..

But it is what it is...do either QB'S inspire confidence..I mean TRUE CONFIDENCE?

So why does Phil wish to blame the media for that?

DUH...he's not...read it again..the reporter asked Quinn if he agreed with the decision that he shouldn't start the opener..U tell me what that question is setting everyone up for...
U well know the answer that opens up a can of worms..

It IS a valid problem that the coaching staff played out by not instilling confidence in any of them. The media and the fans simply watched this entire thing play out.


It's a made up problem that only a view want to see as such..I don't..
So since everyone watched it play out and Frye was named the starter..whats THE REAL PROBLEM?

The real problem is the skillset of the starter..not the QB competition..not the Brady ain't starting the opener...the Browns were not ready nor willing to start Quinn in the first 4 games..
And since most do agree he shouldn't play until after the bye week..WHY EVEN ASK that question to Quinn?
The problem is THE MEDIA wanted Quinn to start immediately ..well most of them do.

Pit, Savage and RAC aren't without some fault here.. That coin flip thing ticked me off as well.. I thought it was Just about as dumb a thing as anyone could say to be honest.. even if true,,,it's better left unsaid. Do we agree there?

But there is no doubt in my mind, that when it comes to starting contreversy, the Media in general and Pat M, Tony G and Mary C are among the biggest offenders in the area. There are others,, like that Steve Dou "something".. he's no better.


Again, As I have said a thousand times,, I hate the media,, almost as much as I hate politicians.. So when I say something about the media,,, understand it's coming from someone that hates them...... Grain of salt time I think

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When your coach flips a coin to name the starter,shuffles them back and forth,refuses tro show confidence in either Fyre or DA? Then Phil blames the MEDIA for the QB contrversy

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i don't think thats what phil was pissed about....he was mad, that the media took comments he made about quinn (iirc that it was "unrealistic" that he would be the starter week 1) and turned them around into phil saying quinn isn't good enough....

in the presser phil explained that he was referencing wimbley, and how he was here all training camp, with less responsibility, and didn't start....



looking at the big picture with frye and da, i think they really wanted to see who handled the pressure, and who didn't....they also wanted to see how frye would react to being told he wouldn't be the starter...in other words they were auditioning the best backup....RAC wanted the competition...the media made the controversy...



any way you slice it the media in this town is a joke most of the time...they don't report the facts, or the story...they always have to add their opinion into the mix, leaving us to sort it out....

this dude is ragging on the run d too....well no kidding we need some help on the d line.....but before the season we needed help at LT and QB too.....those two are off the list....next year RB and Dline....

It was a coin toss for preseason... who cares? Its obvious that Romeo likes to pick w/ the media...

This is ridiculous, did anyone read what Phil said?

I totally aqree with him, it IS the media's job to create a stir and cause contoversy.

It is!!! You can't tell me otherwise.

Pat is a freaking cry baby who took Phil's comments too personally..


Waaahh Pat, Waaaahh

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don't think thats what phil was pissed about....he was mad, that the media took comments he made about quinn (iirc that it was "unrealistic" that he would be the starter week 1) and turned them around into phil saying quinn isn't good enough....

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I believe you are correct.. To me this is more proof that the Media isn't out to report the facts,, just to see what they can stir up.

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It was a coin toss for preseason... who cares? Its obvious that Romeo likes to pick w/ the media...

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Of course you are right.. and the thing about RAC picking on the Media,, probably true,, but I still don't think it should have been said..

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Tony G is the worst. If you haven't listened to "Hey Tony" from cleveland.com/browns,

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I have and you are right,, the guy is just a bit off center.

THe Plain Dealer as a whole never was a GREAT paper.. But when thier long time Editor (Machacski, sp) retired and this new guy came in, it seems that even Cabot has turned into a rumor mongering, tabloid type writer.. I used to think she was ok,, but not so much anymore...

I think you can tell that I agree with you right

Actually I think most of the whining isn't coming from Phil it's coming from you guys.....

And anyone who thinks the media created any controversy on this team doesn't have a clue how the media works. They may report the same thing 50 times in the span of one week but they don't create the story. They just report it. Had Romeo come out the first week of practice and said Charlie is the QB until further notice then guess what......No QB questions. The same with any other problems with the team. "What's this we hear about Bentley's rehab?" Correct answer: He'll probably not play this year even though he wants to. Answer given to the press: "Uh, gosh, we're not sure"

See how that works? Give the reporter the truth and don't try to massage the answer to fit your needs and the controversy goes away. Freedom of the press is a wonderful thing. You guys should try supporting it.

Everyone supports the Constitution until it's inconvenient for them I guess......