DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns shopping running back Duke Johnson, sources say

He was never changed to WR. Which is what you've said he should be. None of the four HC's since he was drafted have ever done that. He's been a RB from day 1 until now. He does catch passes and that's his biggest asset. Yet he has never been converted to the WR position.

Unlike you I won't be taking any personal shots.

Duke has also stated that he would rather catch the ball than run it...

Yup. He knows that is how he will have a longer career, and thus higher career earnings.

I'm still thinking that he - or Hunt - will be a Draft day trade. I just saw GBN's three round mock has Devin White falling to Baltimore at #22.... if he starts falling that far, I would not be shocked at all to see us to trade up to #18 with Minny (they could one of use Duke/Hunt (plus picks)) to get him.

How would you see a Hunt trade happening that day? Brilliant maybe. Dorsey's Draft Day 2.0.

Zeitler made the team better too. It's not me who doesn't get it. You make moves that make your team better. When you have an abundance at one position you can use assets at that position to improve other positions. Dosey has shown the willingness to do this and it's why I think that Duke very well may be moved.

Once again I will take no personal shots qat you. However, I will say that you don't present the only logical scenario and you can quit pretending that every time someone doesn't agree with you that have are some type of superior being. You're not.

If Duke becomes a WR, who does he bump out of the rotation at WR?

OBJ?
Landry?
Callaway?
Higgins?

I vote for none of the above.

If Duke is a pure WR, then he is no longer going to be matched up against LBers.

Of that list, Landry. He's the slot receiver. Landry isn't going anywhere right now, however.

Not sure why they would want to trade a decent weapon on a cheap contract?

To get a different weapon on a cheaper contract?

Nobody.
Duke is not good enough to bump any of them from the roster. Period.

He is an odd man out here in Cleveland.
At best he is the 3rd RB, but Hilliard even makes that questionable.
He isn't even on the roster here as a WR.

Beat me to it. Duke is a nice player, but he is not going to bump any of those guys as a WR. And he is no Hunt.

Whomever trades for him is getting a super deal in 2019.
His salary became fully guaranteed by us on March 15th, so whomever gets him doesn't pay his salary this year. They would only be on the hook for his per-game bonuses (total is $400k) and workout bonus ($100k). [source]

Still, trading him before June 1st save us $800k against the cap.
Trading him after June 1st saves us $2.3 million in 2019 while counting $1.5MM in 2020.

It's not a given to me that they will trade him. But it's certainly a good option should they choose to if it's a deal to improve an area of weakness.

I have to look at it like this. We signed Hunt. Hunt is just as good as Duke at catching the ball out of the backfield although he has been used as an every down RB as well. So that gives you a weapon like Duke who is much more talented and could step in if Chubb goes down. Duke has never been seen as an every down back. So he can do everything Duke does PLUS give you the option of an every down back. Something Duke doesn't give you.

That's an obvious upgrade over Duke. And since Hunt can also be just as effective at catching the ball, why would you need two RB's with that same skill set?

So that makes Duke expendable. As for having a speedy back, something Duke doesn't give you, Hilliard gives you that dimension.

So point being, at this juncture Duke could be used as a piece of the puzzle to upgrade another area of weakness on the team in a trade. While it's true that Zeitler had a very expensive contract, it certainly shows that if Dorsey feels he can use a talent we can replace to fill a need in another area, he won't hesitate to make a move.

And with the strength in both the passing and running game we added with Hunt, combined with the speed of Hilliard, at this point Duke is just a weaker Hunt.

JOHN DORSEY: Running back DUKE JOHNSON is 'very valuable' to Browns
Mar 15, 2019

Pat McManamon
ESPN Staff Writer

Never say never when it comes to Cleveland Browns general manager JOHN DORSEY and player moves, but he did not sound eager to trade running back DUKE JOHNSON when he spoke on a conference call on Thursday.

“He is a really good player,” Dorsey said. “He is a very valuable asset on this team.”

Johnson has been a contributor as a runner and receiving option, but speculation about his future stated when the Browns signed KAREEM HUNT in February. Since FREDDIE KITCHENS said NICK CHUBB is the Browns' starting back, Hunt and Johnson would be two players with the same change-of-pace role.

Cleveland.com reported that the Browns are shopping Johnson and are more than willing to trade him. It’s possible Johnson might welcome a new team if he felt that his role would diminish, but that’s not known.

The Browns may not be able to do anything with Johnson until they know the length of Hunt’s suspension for the altercation he had a year ago that saw him kick a woman in the hallway outside his Cleveland apartment.

That’s just one of several items are that are up next for the Browns as the excitement continues about THE AQUISITION OF WR ODELL BECKHAM JR. Among other items on the “what’s ahead” list:

THE FUTURE OF DEFENSIVE END EMMANUEL OGBAH -- along with Johnson. Ogbah had a strong rookie season and seemed to be growing as a player in his second season opposite MYLES GARRETT. But a foot injury that required surgery ended 2017 after 10 games, and his play dropped in 2018. The acquisition of OLIVIER VERNON from the Giants puts Ogbah into a reserve role, and ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported the Browns are shopping him. “There are people in the National Football League, the teams, and they call every day about certain players,” Dorsey said. “Right now, those two guys are Cleveland Browns; they both are really good football players. But teams call around to a lot of different scenarios all of the time.”

DUKE JOHNSON'S FUTURE in Cleveland could depend on KAREEM HUNT'S AVAILABILITY. Daniel Dunn/Icon Sportswire

The timetable on a decision on Hunt’s suspension. The Browns await word just like their fans. “I can’t speak for the league on when they are going to do their ruling,” Dorsey said. “All I can do is wait for them and just see what happens.”

THE NEXT RIGHT GAURD. Dorsey said the team drafted AUSTIN CORBETT 33rd overall a year ago for a reason, but he’s not going to give him the job in March. “By no means do you anoint him right now,” Dorsey said. The Browns signed FORMER BEAR ERIC KUSH on Thursday. He can play guard or center, and figures to be part of the competition. Last year’s starter, KEVIN ZEITLER, was traded to the Giants in the Beckham deal.

Who steps in for linebacker JAMIE COLLINS? Dorsey gave the initial nod to GENARD AVERY, whom he drafted in 2018 and who he said “played at a really nice level last year.” Dorsey added he would not hesitate to add more competition at the spot.

DREW STANTON remains the choice to back up BAKER MAYFIELD. It might seem that given the addition of Beckham that the Browns need a backup with more recent playing experience. With the increased talent level on offense, why risk a significant backslide if Mayfield has to miss some games? But Stanton has gone 10-6 as a starter, and Dorsey and Kitchens believe he is more than capable.

The possibility of signing ERIC BERRY as a free agent. The trade of Jabrill Peppers in the Beckham deal leaves a need at safety alongside DAMARIOUS RANDELL. Dorsey knows Berry, a cancer survivor who was released Wednesday by Kansas City. “I think he is a fine, fine person,” Dorsey said. “Of course, we are going to do our research, and if we feel that he fits this organization, of course we will make some calls to his representatives.”

GETTING BACK INTO THE FIRST ROUND of the draft. The 17th overall pick went to New York. Dorsey said if a move happened it probably would not take place until the night of the draft. “If we deem that there is a player to move up for – that is a hypothetical – if you think the player can help you, you go up and do it,” Dorsey said. “Those are the mechanisms that work out. You have to plan for them, but then you have to execute them on the day of the draft.”

Trade Duke for a 3rd round pick. Free up the money and offer a one year cheap discounted price to either TJ Yeldon or TY Montgomery to fill the void until Hunt comes along in week 9.

It's always good to talk up your player to try to increase his value.

What else is he going to say? " There really isn't a role for him on the team and we have better options"??

Umm, Ratley of course, you use more than 5.

Willies, Higgans, New Guy from April, Landry, Odell Beckham Jr. Callaway, Duke, Louis, and (other guy, mid-season acquisition), And Ratley, and Perriman who is gone,
And the 3 tight ends,
And the 3 runningbacks

Fullback? 5 are eligible each play.

Tackle eligible play, with Ogunjobi lined up at TE.

Lmao. Seriously?

Just stop already.

Is that you Knight of Brown?

Well, to be fair, we have better options after week 8. Prior to that, not so much!

Not even close. I bring facts, logic, and reasoning to my argument. You won't see me making anything up.

There's Landry threads galore, so I won't derail this one... but yes, seriously, I don't think Landry is going anywhere this season.

Honest answer for an honest question. If you want to talk Landry in another thread I'm game.

You hit it on the head here. Unless and until a player is traded, he's a part of your team. It's not like Duke is a useless player. And you're certainly not going to say anything negative about a player currently on your roster.

I don't think anyone dislikes Duke. I'd say the vast majority of us would be happy if he remained a Brown. I just feel that some of us can look at the situation and see that moving him elsewhere is a strong possibility.

Duke is an asset in two ways. On the field as a player, and has good trade value. It's win win for the team.

I used to think this way, but we have to face reality. Duke is way over rated by us.

He is not has good has we think he was, and I honestly don't think we will get much for him.

There's a flip side to that in that we've never exposed any clear-cut weakness in Duke. There were teams and talking-heads all over the NFL landscape wondering why we can't get him more involved for the last three years. There are plenty of teams salivating over "what may be" if he is just given the proper chance.

Well let them pay the price to find out the answer why 4 different HC's here came to the same conclusion on Duke.

Folks always assume im trolling lol (yes sometimes I am, but not this time lol)

Getting rid of Duke right now would be foolish. Duke Johnson is a "piece" a very important "piece" to the overall big picture here...he is a 75-80 catch season capable running back talent....you can use guys like him to win championships. it doesn't matter if you have Beckham and Landry...having Landry, Beckham, and Johnson on the field at the same time opens things up for all 3 of those guys.

Johnson is an average RB running the ball
Johnson is an above average/borderline elite blocker
Johnson is an above average/elite receiving RB

He fills a very important role for us and he won't be easily replaced.

think about it,

What if Chubb goes down week 2 with a season ending injury?

What if Hunt gets himself in trouble again this season?

what then? what will we do without Johnson, I'll tell you, were screwed thats what.

If something happens and Chubb goes down and Hunt can't play Johnson is good enough in all 3 phases of the game to carry the load for the season so we aren't miffed..Johnson could get 76 yards a game on the ground and 5-7 catches per game which would put him at 1000 yards rushing and 700-800 yards receiving, whihc would be good enough to get the job done.

We got Johnson on the cheap, and he is a good player, he is our insurance policy in case Chubb is injured and Hunt gets in trouble and can't play...Dorsey isn't a fool...I think Johnson has a very good year for us next year. then depending on how things play out if Hunt actually has his troubles behind him and Chubb can continue what he did as a rookie, then maybe we look to move Johnson in 2020, but i'd be surprised if we do it before.

Whatever we could get for Johnson now would be a downgrade in talent. you won't get a LB, DE, etc of the same talent level as Johnson, not this year. The move wouldn't make sense. I mena nothing suprises me anymore as a Browns fan, but Hunt being a big ? mark, im not sure you could move Johnson, not if your want to win anyways.

I think that if you can trade your 5th WR for a quality 2nd player at any other position, you do so. You have to allocate your assets according to the needs of the team.

If you set up a board for free agency and the draft, which would you try to fill 1st.... backup SS, or 5th WR? How about 5th WR, or backup LB? 5th WR, or backup CB?

I agree that Duke has value .... and ... stupid as it sound .. that's what makes him valuable. If there is a young player, who Dorsey really liked in a prior draft, at a position of need on our team, then why not trade Duke for that player. It's like trading away Zeittler and Peppers ...... both are good players. Zeittler is more than just good. Yet we traded both players, along with a 1st and a 3rd, for 2 players Dorsey really liked and wanted. Losing these players weakens us, and/or our depth at a pair of positions ..... but the return was good enough to justify the cost. That's what front office has to decide ... whether the potential equation favors us, or the other team. That's Dorsey's job, and he's proved to be good at it. Maybe we even get a 4th year player who hasn't fit his current team, but who appears likely to fit our scheme. (Like Randall)

If Dorsey trades anyone, I will trust in his judgement. He has proved himself .... and in the end, I really can't do anything about it anyway.

I'm sure most realize I'm talking football while some wish to dismiss it simply because they disagree with me.

What many are missing is that Hunt is just like Duke on steroids. He fills the exact same role as pass catcher combined with being a much better every down RB. If Chubb goes down, Duke will not be replacing Chubb as an every down RB. He has never filled that role. Even Dorsey has instead went to a mediocre RB like Hyde rather than use Duke in that role. If they actually saw Duke in that role we would have used him there when the Crow left. Instead we used a leftover RB in Hyde who we all knew wasn't a top quality RB and drafted his replacement in Chubb.

Now Duke can certainly be used as a situational RB. That's exactly what he's always been. But people need to quit pretending that's some rare commodity because it's not.

I don't think that anyone here would be upset if we keep Duke. He's been a good team player and an asset when called upon.

But something nobody seems to wish to address in this thread is the obvious trade that Dorsey just made with Zeitler. Zeitler is an obviously higher quality player at his position than Duke. A starter who plays every down. That didn't stop Dorsey from pulling the trigger when he felt he had another answer at the position.

Corbett set the stage to trade Zeitler just like signing Hunt has set the stage to trade Duke. Does that mean it will happen? No. Does that mean Dorsey has set the circumstances in motion that the option is there for it to happen? Yes.

If a trade can be made involving Duke that will strengthen a weaker position, the ducks have been put in a row that can make that happen.

I agree with what your saying its just the way you said it, there is no need to trash Hyde the way you did !!!

Carlos Hyde averaged 3.4 yards per carry with the Browns in 2018 and 3.3 yards with the Jags after he left. He's exactly what I said he is.

I'm a buckeye fan so I'm not out to trash him but it is what it is whether some wish to admit it or not. He is a mediocre RB who was someone else's leftovers. The proof is that we upgraded from him almost immediately with Chubb. As soon as they could get Chubb ready, they didn't hesitate to move on from Hyde. Hyde was a very temporary band aid. I don't make the news, I just report it.

j/c:

I have read a lot of stuff on this thread and I hear things like Hunt is here to replace Hilliard as our third back or how Hunt is a souped-up Duke. I get the feeling that everyone is assuming that Chubb is a better all-around back than Hunt.

I am not trashing Chubb, but man, I think Hunt is a better all-around back. That doesn't mean I think he will come in and be the starter in game 9 or maybe even this season, but if we keep Hunt, the dude is going to get major playing time. He is an elite back and I think people are underrating him on this board.

Maybe some of the comments I've made could be taken that way but it's surely not my intent. My only point has been that those saying Duke is our pass catching back obviously don't realize what a receiving threat Hunt is out of the backfield. Hunt is one of the best RB's in the NFL. At least top 5.

My posts have been based on the current pecking order. As of this moment Chubb is our #1 RB on the depth chart. I don't see either Hunt or Chubb being used as our primary back but I think a combination of them both will be used. You can give them equal carries which keeps them both fresh. The two headed monster approach if you will.

But at this point in time, Hunt is a better RB than Chubb.

Got it.

And for the record, I wasn't saying any of that in a negative manner or if I was even right about how people regarded Hunt. It's just kind of a "sense" of their perceptions that I had/have.

I agree.