DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus The Pyramid of White Supremacy

I think first you need to get past what you think is happening verses what is really happening. Over 70% of terrorist killings in America come from right wing extremists and racially motivated killings. I know it's not popular to call it terrorism when white people do it but that doesn't change the fact that it is.

I know it's great to try to point to the other 30% and act like racism and right wing extremists aren't the issue, but by and large, they are.

And it's nice to call it divisive if that's the angle you wish to perceive it from. But the actual point is that everyone should recognize what's going on, everyone should call it out and work together to combat it.

But it's obvious you don't want to see it, or help fight it because your entire, "let's just all get along" idea has gotten us to where we are now.

And having a president saying there's "good people on both sides" when one side is responsible for 70% of the problem doesn't help either.

I would like to read those statistics you posted but you forgot to post links.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/03/magazine/FBI-charlottesville-white-nationalism-far-right.html

https://qz.com/1435885/data-shows-more-us-terror-attacks-by-right-wing-and-religious-extremists/

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/us-sees-rise-in-right-wing-extremism/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/concern-gro...ism-2019-03-19/

Uh, none of those stories back up your numbers. What gives?

Yeah, it's only the vast majority here. It's 70% globally.

We should ignore the vast majority here because you know, it's only a small group and not as bad as people say it is.

https://www.jta.org/2019/01/24/opinion/r...umbers-dont-lie

I'm fine with calling it terrorism because it is.

But it's not all white people, which seems to get lost at times. It's a fringe group that gets a ton of media coverage which gets people fired up and makes the group seem more prevalent than it is. It's kind of the same thing that happened to Muslims post 9/11. Most of the Muslims in the country are "normal," law-abiding citizens. However, they were, and some cases still are, painted with the terrorist brush.

More than 70% of the entire population of the US is white, so it's not surprising that they'd account for a similar percentage of "the problem".

Data from here- Census.gov

What percentage of the total "white" population do those that commit terrorist acts make up?

According to NewAmerica.org 86 people have been killed by terrorists with "Far Right Wing" ideologies since 9/11. Link

I'd think the same number of perpetrators as victims would be a decent guesstimate due to the nature of most of these attacks, but for argument's sake let's make it 10 perpetrators for every victim.

76.6% of the 325 million total population from the first link is roughly 250 million white people in America. 860 terrorists out of 249,500,890 white people is a really small number. .000003-ish.

Those "860" extremists are awful. But, the 249,500,000-ish white people that aren't terrorists feel the bleed over effect.

Some might try to call that minimizing, but I'd call it a call for objectivity.

Yes, something should be done about the extremists.

Blaming an entire race (even if just for not doing more) for the acts of a miniscule percentage of their total population that they've never actually interacted with seems problematic.

Most sane people don't go out looking for terrorists on their own. Terrorists are for the most part (entirely) irrational and what can really be done about that? People with the training (FBI, etc.) find them and punish/stop them. How often do average people go looking for terrorists of any race let alone their own? The expectation to do more sounds great. But what realistically can the average person do?

Well there are over 1000 hate groups in America and that number is on the rise. So I don't know what more you need to think we all need to unite to help stop it. It certainly doesn't help when your president tries to minimize it. Much like you seem to be doing.

Hate groups increase every year and are up by over 30% since 2004. They rose by 7% just last year.

See, while you did show that America is 70% white, it's one of those things where stats are manipulated. Out of that 70%, what percentage are right wing extremists?

Since whites seem to "meet their quota" in hate crimes, it's only getting worse.

But let's ignore that right wing hate groups have risen by 30% in the past 15 years and up by 7% in the past year by trying to whitewash it with some stats.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/us/hate-groups-rise.html

j/c...

There is an interesting article in the recent issue of the The Atlantic titled, "White Nationalism’s Deep American Roots: A long-overdue excavation of the book that Hitler called his “bible,” and the man who wrote it".

It's a lengthy, but worthwhile read to anyone interested.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc...onalism/583258/

J\C While the whole democratic house refuse to call out the anti semites in their party which should make every dem. an ANTI SEMITE smfh

They called out all hate. Maybe it's time you do the same.

Pot meet kettle your one of the most vial hateful posters on this board and you lump every conservative with every hate group cause they don't agree with you .
Maybe if you try to have an honest debate with some here and give people a fair chance to explain their thoughts but you don't.

Obviously your comprehension has gotten worse and I didn't believe that was humanly possible.

See... a great hateful insult ,you must be so proud.

So?

So whites will fight back.

As if I didn’t see that coming. Go Oh BTW ... Hitler lost, as will you.

You may see it as hateful but what it is would be correct.

Because well, Trump.

You see, this isn't, or should I say shouldn't be a political issue. It's certainly not for me.

Do you even know how many Republican politicians stand up and speak out against white supremacists? Many, I'd say even the majority of them do. They fully understand it's an ever increasing and growing problem in our nation.

It's actually a subject where all of our people should speak out strongly against it. A subject we used to all be fairly united about. President Bush, both of them in fact spoke out strongly against it. I speak out strictly to those who try to deny or minimize the threat it poses. Not all Republicans.

But you can't see beyond it being a political thing. That's where your comprehension breaks down. Sure there are some Republicans who refuse to see its impact. They refuse to see it's a growing problem. But far from all of them.

But you just go on with your bad self.

I'll condemn all hate groups.

What do the numbers look like for groups over all, though? Seems like there are a ton of groups for everything any more. Anyone with a computer can start one now, and basically every household has at least access to one.

Since the groups are now on the internet, they are easier to find and count.

Based on the numbers I found and posted about already, the number of right wing extremists that act on those sentiments is less than .000004 % of the white population. I'll admit the number of those that don't act is possibly 1000s of times higher, but that would still be a small percentage of the total.

You're welcome to find some actual supported numbers and show us your results as far as percentages.

Hate groups of all shapes and sizes are a problem. Trump encouraging them is a problem.

What do you propose everyone does about them?

I hear lots of harping on problems, but I haven't seen many realistic proposals for solutions.

Voting for the other end of the spectrum isn't really an answer. Vacillating between extremes is how we ended up with Trump in the first place.

Group-itis is the problem of our time. Everything's this group vs. that group. We can't figure out a group that is big enough for everyone, or at least many won't accept it.

If you have questions on "other groups" I would suggest you do some research and give us that information. I mean we all have google, right?

I'm not a single issue voter. Until the last election in my state I voted for a Republican Gov. I vote Republican quite a bit of the time in fact. As I just stated in my previous post many Republican politicians speak out quite strongly against white supremacists.

What I don't believe anyone can truly debate is that by not speaking out against it and publicly minimizing the issue certainly bolsters and emboldens those who are already a part of the problem. It legitimizes their beliefs to those who are of like mind.

There's really no room for that in our society.

I am "speaking" out against them.

I'll disagree that looking at additional issues or putting issues in an accurate perspective is the same as minimizing issues. Honestly, I'd think that making a group look bigger and more pervasive than it actually is would embolden and legitimize that group more than factually looking at the numbers and saying look at that tiny group of crazy, evil racists that hundreds of millions of their "own people" don't like.

Making the (false) argument that the majority of white people tacitly support them would seem to be counter-productive (if we're following the legitimizing and emboldening train of thought).

With regards to the earlier question, I did a google search of "number of groups created on Facebook since 2001," but couldn't find a clear answer. I imagine the figure is something astronomical.

If only the GOP sheep on capital hill would speak out and not be afraid of surviving the ensuing trump Twitter rant.

Pit's link gives about 60 incidents and less than 100 deaths, in a full year.

Every single major city in the US beats those numbers for murders. Many major cities beat those numbers in 90 days.

I am not saying 80-90 deaths is a good thing. I am saying that, like so many things, it is all a matter of "compared to what?". There are likely individual sections of New York and other cities that beat those number on drug overdoses alone, in a much shorter period of time.

If preventing deaths from right wing or other extremists is more important than preventing much larger numbers of deaths from other causes, well then, I disagree.

As far as "hate groups", who exactly gets to make that qualification? I have seen such a designation given to people who just did not want the statues to come down, for historical reasons. I have seen that designation given to people who wanted to lower taxes for less social programs. I have seen that designation given to people who want to make this country great again. That designation was given unjustly to the kids from Covington.

If you want to solve the problem, find the three most definite factors for predicting poverty and work to eliminate them. You will find that the simple act of defining and stating them will have you qualified as a racist.

As for fighting back, most of us will just find more important uses for the fruits of our labor than providing welfare checks.

Did somebody say racial hate crimes?

Truly horrible.

That should never happen to anyone.
Interesting that you should choose that particular vid, since this one is what set that entire 'two weeks of hell' in motion:




Without these four thugs getting blanket acquittals, YOUR video never happens.

Uniforms or street clothes: a thug is still a thug.

Riley and Nelson, please stop replying to me. Please click the correct poster you wish to reply to.

Rocky, your reply fits under soo many different parts of the pyramid.

Grimm,

you posted earlier in this thread a sentiment of not being confident in the fruitfulness of the endeavor of participating. I think you are well justified in such a feeling.

It is fruitless. There's virtually nothing to be gained because there's virtually no one who is calling for a conversation who's actually serious about having a conversation.

Let's take this thread for example (I don't think Rocket is the only one, but this is the current thread):

In the original post he puts up the pyramid and asks where we fall on it. Now, if one is truly interested in a discussion or exchange of ideas, the premise it is based on has to be objectively agreed upon. If one can't be purely objective, it then has to contain as few assumptions or pre-conceived limitations. If there isn't, then there simply isn't room for discussion to take place.

But while the premise was skewed, you could work with it if some context was added. Fish posted an article about and Rocket's reply was to throw out an insult saying only Trump sheep would have a hard time passing the course.

That right there shows Rocket isn't actually interested in an exchange of ideas. All he wants is to hear his point echoed back at him. Anyone who doesn't contribute to that echo, we see throughout the thread is subjected to ridicule, attempts to shame, and have straw man arguments attributed to them.

He's not the only one. You've made some pretty good posts trying to bring objectivity to the topic. In return you're accused of trying to minimize the scope or importance, or to deflect.

These people only come across as those seeking to have their virtue signalling validated. That's it. What I haven't figured out yet is if the exploitive element to their behavior is on accident, on purpose, or inherently recognized but they're willing to benefit from it because well, that's the nature of exploitation isn't it?

There is no amount of admission of guilt,apology,checked
privilege, or penance that you can do that they would ever make room for you on their pedestal of virtue. They need a boogeyman. They need someone to exercise their own prejudice and bigotry against.

Final thought on this: what they claim to be minimization, deflection, or dismissal IMO in large part is simply fatigue. The majority of people to include those who didn't vote for President Obama believed from a racial aspect it was good for the Country. Instead of moving forward with that together, it was used to turn the tables. Literally every single criticism of President Obama was labeled as racist. Good and decent people got tired of the Chicken Little and Boy Crying WOlf BS that they simply stopped caring when they realized that there was literally nothing they could say or do that wouldn't get them called a racist.

Swish had a good question I thought about (and I paraphrase) whether it should be important enough to care about being called racist and proving you aren't. Or to some effect.

Prove it to whom? And by what standard? By whose
standard?

There is racism IN America. I don't deny that. What I don't have time for is people who claim to be concerned about an issue but then exaggerate the issue at every corner and who refuse to look at it objectively in order to arrive at a solution.

Someone who is willing to do that is few and far between.

You mean OCD. I said nothing to fish about the course.

Nice try.

Ah, I stand corrected, but not by you. It was Perfect who said it. You guys all sound the same anyway though so...

I don’t go comparing you to dummy police officers, do I?

I don't know. If you did/do I wouldn't be able to hear it over the echo of exploitation anyway.

I hear a nearly non-stop, high-pitched, droning whine.

Sonny.

Get checked for tinnitus.

Maybe you should leave your room and actually talk to other people.

So that’s all you got from my multiple post? Smh.

Funny you bring up that fact that you’re essentially dismissed no matter what you say, yet I’ve been getting that day one since posting on the boards about this topic and you never say a word.

You’re right though, there’s no point in talking about it. I’m a minority so I’ll just get dismissed by the majority regardless.