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Stephen Denmark, Valdosta State is my new DB sleeper draft crush. [video:youtube] https://youtu.be/PRV7BKW5ZHs[/video] Pro Day results tweet
Stephen Denmark's testing numbers are insane too.
Height: 6'4"
Weight: 216 pounds
40: 4.46 (!)
Split: 1.48
Vert: 43"
BJ: 10'10"
And on top of that all......a 79" wingspan.
There is no way that this dude does not get drafted.
He played CB in the highlights, and I'd let him start there, but his tackling/blitzing look like safety could be an option, too. I do need to find games rather than highlights, and level of competition is a concern. Those numbers look nice, though. Don't have the agility numbers as well, highlights make it hard to see if they should be a concern.
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Granted, Randall is the starter going in and to upgrade on him will be tough. But..and its a Big BUTT! In the NFL you need depth. You cannot depend on one guy and we need at least 4 safeties, 2 FS and 2 SS and possibly even more as nickel and dime packages would possibly need those who can defend and also tackle especially right now the Ravens with Lamar and a running game.
Also we need competition at every position except possibly at QB.
Its make the team better.
I like Dieonte Thompson of Alabama.
Device is suggesting Thornhill a kid with size and speed and heck if he can fill in and compete at CB that is great also, just remember what happened to our current FS Randall.
He came in and was put in as a starting CB and pretty much was average to mediocre but coming here, he FLOURISHED as he was given the opportunity to play the position he was made for.
Thornhill might turn out to be an UPGRADE on Randall maybe not this year. He can get a lot of reps as a back up FS but possibly next year he can compete as the starter!
Good heads up device...Kid has size and speed. Can't teach speed.
jmho
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Stephen Denmark, Valdosta State is my new DB sleeper draft crush. [video:youtube] https://youtu.be/PRV7BKW5ZHs[/video] Pro Day results tweet
Stephen Denmark's testing numbers are insane too.
Height: 6'4"
Weight: 216 pounds
40: 4.46 (!)
Split: 1.48
Vert: 43"
BJ: 10'10"
And on top of that all......a 79" wingspan.
There is no way that this dude does not get drafted.
He played CB in the highlights, and I'd let him start there, but his tackling/blitzing look like safety could be an option, too. I do need to find games rather than highlights, and level of competition is a concern. Those numbers look nice, though. Don't have the agility numbers as well, highlights make it hard to see if they should be a concern. I can see the same situation for Thornhill...We know Dorsey likes those with "explosion" in the Broad Jump, and Vertical... Juan Thornhill 6'-0" 205# 31-1/8" Arm 4.42 40 44" Vertical 11'-9" Broad Jump 21 reps at 225 Dude, crushed his Combine...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
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Seems like we talk a lot about safeties who can play the hybrid S-Lb role but we never really talk about the Lb who can be that S-Lb hybrid. The guy I saw some highlights of who looks like he might be that Lb who could be the S-Lb hybrid player is Vosean Joseph Florida.
I don't know his size or speed but he looks like a smaller faster Lb. Would love to get your guys' thoughts. Especially 'peens as I am sure he has watched more Florida Gator Games this year than the rest of us combined.
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I like Joseph and I can see how you'd fit him into a hybrid LB/S role. I think his draft stock is a bit rich for us as it stands now.
I also like Germaine Pratt in the same role. Started his college career as a Saftey. Now he's a 240LBS linebacker who can cover. His 40 at the combine was about 4.57 which is exceptional and he was the ACC leading tackler this past season. He's not projected to go as early as Joseph but I think he offers similar ability.
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I also rate Pratt. Another LB I like is Long out of WV. Not as a safety but as a cover-2 type of LB.
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I also rate Pratt. Another LB I like is Long out of WV. Not as a safety but as a cover-2 type of LB. On paper, Pratt sounds great. On tape, I was less enthused. I'm guessing he goes higher than I'd take him. Long definitely has better flashes on tape. He kind of reminds me of Bob Sanders. Not in coverage, necessarily, but he's one of those undersized heat seeking missiles. He'd seem to be great on special teams in addition to having a shot at playing time at LB. I'm not sure he'd start right away, but definitely think he'd see the field. Might be a guy we could use as a big nickel against the Ravens to emulate what the Chargers did to them somewhat.
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I looked at Long of WV and I felt about him as you seem to feel about Pratt. He appeared to arrive late on run fits, I see him slipping off tackles at times.
No right or wrong, just different.
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I looked at Long of WV and I felt about him as you seem to feel about Pratt. He appeared to arrive late on run fits, I see him slipping off tackles at times.
No right or wrong, just different. I feel similarly about the two. I'd be happy to take either in the middle rounds. I expect Pratt to go higher. I don't dislike him. I just think he's being overhyped a bit. Some of my preference is stylistic. Pratt had 17 TFLs in 4 years. Long had 19.5 last year. Long just seems the more aggressive/instinctive player to me. He does have some size/length limitations, but he often overcomes them. They do show up at times, though, which is why I don't have him higher. Pratt was also at NC State for 5 years, so I'd have liked to have seen more from a diagnosis standpoint. He just looks a bit slow(er), relatively speaking, to process. Some may be the position change. I dunno exactly why, but he kind of gives me an Aaron Curry vibe.
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I appreciate the clarification, thanks. A valid concern about Pratt is that he only became a full-time starter this past season. That also may be part of why his stats may lag behind Long. I really don't think either player is receiving much in the way of hype. If you're not White or Bush there doesn't seem to be a great deal of attention left to give to other backers.
Interesting observation included on Long's NFL.Com draft profile:
Sources Tell Us
"Personally, I would rather have David Long over Devin Bush for a round or two discount. They have about the same size but Long is more productive and maybe less prone to injury." -- NFC executive
Last edited by guard dawg; 03/23/19 05:33 PM.
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The Pratt "hype" might just be happenstance due to the people I follow on Twitter. I've seen his name pop up quite a few times from draftniks and Browns' podcasters. Haven't heard nary a peep about the WV David Long linking him to the Browns. Some about the Michigan DB of the same name.
I might agree with the NFC exec from a value standpoint. Round 2 seems a bit soon, though assuming Bush goes round 1.
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Love that size and speed!
without watching a lot of game film hard to tell if they can tackle and have that ability to take the correct angles. I think these SS types noted with speed are important in this new era and the few QBs who are part of the run game especially in our own division. Yes, I'm talking about Lamar as the Ravens have now committed to Lamar. He is an amazing running QB with limited arm.
If we can take away that Run and eliminate the inside throw...We will own the Ravens. Having kids who can play the pass and also step up and stop the run. Is going to become more important.
Hope we take more than one.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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I recently stumbled on to another great draft site that provides both a draft profile but also some GIFs of each prospect. No exaggeration must be 200+ profiles on this site. Pro Fottball Draft Zone Anyway, it gave me a chance to look a little more at David Long the WV Linebacker. I came away more impressed than I was previously. Good run fits. Uses his athleticism to beat blockers to spots. Good in the blitz packages. Good inside out range. Didn't see much in coverage though.
Last edited by guard dawg; 03/26/19 03:32 PM.
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GC. Soo Safeties.
Thinking back to 1999, all, all those super bowl winning teams with young first year safties, ?? , crickets.
Kindred is cool, couple year ago the Browns had Tashaun Gipson, but that didn't end up a stay on the team.
The Browns drafted Jabrill Peppers, and I didn't like him, (few did) year one, but he made plays last year,
The Browns were so set at the position they were reported in the market for Tony Jefferson, Free agent last year who ended up on the Ravens.
Umm, the Browns added Randall, and have Kindred, but they had them last year, and subtracted Peppers,
experience at Safety seems a big deal, I think most would agree.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Browns, (to "win") the super bowl,... even in 2019,
Even in this God praised, odds makers loving them, 2019 season, the Browns to "win" the Sb, not just get there, are going to have a hard row to hoe if "only" Randall and Kindred are the big time experienced guys at the position.
Again, I don't remember too many SB winning teams relying on 1st year guys in this important of a position, looking back,
But there's always a first, just ask the Red Sox,
Soo. Safeties.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Strong safety is not even close to being one of the most important positions on the starting 22. In fact, it might be dead last.
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Shouldn't that be "starting 26ish"  I mean, 3rd WR, slot corner, Either 3rd down back or TE #2 (depending on offense), pass rush specialist (depending on defense). Heck maybe even rotational D Tackle for that matter. But seriously, in the box safeties should be upgraded to something a bit more flexible these days. Just sayin'
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Throw Long, please understand this post is not intended to show you up. Instead, it's a caution to be careful about how you frame an argument. Absolutes are often dangerous.
The following information is all sourced from pro-football-reference.com:
In 2017 the loser of SB 51, the Atlanta Falcon's started rookie Keanu Neal at Safety.
In 2004 the winner of SB 38, the New England Patriots started rookie Eugene Wilson at Free Safety.
In 2007 the winner of SB 41, the Indianapolis Colts started rookie Antoine Bethea at Strong Safety.
While searching the data above there were a handful of other teams whose starting safeties in the Super Bowl had less than 3 years experience.
At the same time, I noticed overall, as you might expect, that most of these Super Bowl defenses were populated by veteran players of 3 or more years experience. So it wasn't specifically lack of experience at the safety position that was a crucial weakness. It was the depth of experience in the entire defensive unit that is more a constant among the defenses that reach the Super Bowl.
Please take this in the spirit in which it was intended. That being advancing a fact-based football discussion.
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Strong safety is not even close to being one of the most important positions on the starting 22. In fact, it might be dead last.
What I like to do is see what light in the pants LBs would suffice.
The guy I would love to get and ST team the first year but work him in as a potential SS is a kid: Gary Johnson from Texas.
5'11.5" (basically 6') 226 and 4.43 40 time.
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/gary-johnson?id=32194a4f-4800-0021-1e27-de764753b0ed
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You have to remember that I was responding to Throw Long's post about the importance of safeties. Anyway..........an interesting guy might be Darron Lee. He played at Ohio State and was drafted by the Jets w/the 20th overall pick. He has played at LBer and is undersized. He has also been somewhat of a disappointment in the NFL and the Jets will probably trade him now that they signed CJ Mosely. I always thought he could be that hybrid SS/LB dude, similar to Mark Barron. He is 6'1" and around 230 lbs. He ran a 4.47 40 at the Combine. In other words, he can fly. Here is a draft analysis of him coming out of college in 2016: Overview Lee's never been short on confidence, proclaiming to teammates that he was the one to take over for 2014 first-round pick Ryan Shazier in the Buckeyes' defense -- even though he was only a year removed from starring as a quarterback and cornerback in high school. He wound up starting all 15 games in that redshirt freshman year for the national champion Buckeyes, earning multiple Freshman All-American accolades with 81 tackles, 16.5 tackles for loss and 7.5 sacks. Lee truly hit the national stage by terrorizing Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, receiving Defensive MVP honors with seven tackles, three for loss, and two sacks. His play as a sophomore was just as good, tracking down ball carriers 66 times, 11 for a loss and 4.5 sacks on his way to second-team All-Big Ten accolades from league coaches (third team media). Analysis Strengths Quick to diagnose and flow to the ball. Has unusual ability to find the most efficient routes to the ball. Has athleticism and flexibility to contort his body and succeed through difficult tackle angles. Plays with loose hips, quick feet and desired agility of an NFL weak-side linebacker. Former high school quarterback with the change of direction and speed to be a rangy playmaker. Comfortable in space and excels there. Has plus man cover talent. Willing to stand in and take on blockers with a leveraged strike if his gap is being threatened. Capable gap blitzer with ability to get skinny through the holes. Weaknesses Smallish linebacker. Play strength doesn't come close to matching puffed up listed weight. Balance issues at point of attack could plague him over his NFL career. Has the body type of a big safety. Tape shows few authoritative tackles. Involved in too many arm and shoestring tackles. Comes flying in and fails to come to balance at times. Charged with 21 missed and five broken tackles over the last two seasons. Always at size disadvantage and will have to learn to slip more blocks. Can get better at finding targets in zone coverage. Draft Projection Round 1 Sources Tell Us "Don't get overly excited about Ragland making a lot of plays behind those tackles at Alabama. It won't be that way in the pros. Lee had talent on his defense too, but he's a natural three-down player who can cover and blitz. He's a much better playmaker than Ragland." -- AFC executive NFL Comparison Zach Brown Bottom Line Lee's level of NFL success might very well be tied to scheme fit and his ability to add more muscle to his frame. His athletic traits and ability to make plays should make him a starter, but he won't unlock his full potential unless he gets strong enough to handle the rigors of an NFL linebacker. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/darron-lee?id=2555322
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wasn't criticizing you on the importance.
As you say, ANYWAYS...lol 
That is what I'm talking about. We get a guy considered light for LB and look to convert him to SS instead.
As noted those teams that have the QBs with the ability to run I would prefer to stack Safeties in their instead of LBs.
Overall #20 pick? Wonder who we could trade. Man I love the kid but if Jalen Strong is all that. Higgins could become trade material.
also we would have to get a draft pick in the trade if we go with a Ogbah, Lee would have to be a throw in to a draft pick + (being the "+") jmho
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Saw a while back that we had discussed ogbah for lee.
This was a couple weeks ago. Radio silence since
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I don't think Lee will command much in return if the Jets trade him. There are reports out there that say some teams are interested at the right price. Not sure what that price is, though.
Btw---while I was looking for them, I noticed that Lee only weighs 218 lbs. I said he weighed around 230 and that was obviously wrong.
I just never thought he was quite big enough or physical enough for the grind of playing LBer. Obviously, he is fast enough for SS, but I doubt he is good in coverage. He could be that hybrid guy you were referring to.
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Interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks.
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They are dissatisfied with LEE we are very happy about Ogbah.
218 LB vs. Edge guy who is actually pretty good. Not even close.
That is why I'm saying Good Draft pick + Lee. I'm thinking a 2nd rounder. Jets don't have much...There would be a possibility of a draft day trade if the Jets get a lot moving back from #3 we can then make the trade.
jmho just thinking out loud, very dangerous of course...lol
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This makes zero sense to me to cut Kindred. Zero.
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I am not a fan of this move. I like Kindred as a box safety.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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Well obviously we: Dorsey, Kitchens, Wilke did not like him and he was not in their plans.
I'm 99% certain that Dorsey has a plan and his plan does not have us going into the season with ONE SAFETY, Randall.
So before all have a fit, I for one am going to sit out and see the rest of the plan. Just the order of getting to the plan is a little off. Get the new guys then cut Kindred.
I know they like Carrie for some reason??? and at Safety (normally a CB)
That is Peppers gone in trade, Boughty not tendered, and now Cutting Kindred. We have not brought anyone else in from trade nor FA yet. So I'm waiting to see what Dorsey has COOKING! I'm sure we will be happy come Training camp.
jmho
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Ugochukwu Amadi, Oregon is another guy I need to look more at. Kind of reminds me of Lamarcus Joyner on my first look.
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I am not a fan of this move. I like Kindred as a box safety. As do I. Apparently the Browns don't want box safeties.
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Rapp's 4.7 40 at the UW Pro Day is no bueno.
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Taylor Mays is still available 
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Juan Thornhill is the Jamie Collins of safeties to me. Great athlete, but just kind of looks disinterested all too often.
Chauncey Gardner-Johnson I'm liking. Has a bit of an Ed Reed feel, not entirely on that level, but seems to be around the ball a lot. Some deception in his coverages (see the Bowl game against Mich). Nice versatility. Blitzes, plays the run, and covers (slot and deep). Angles could improve, but I like his play demeanor. I do need to watch some more games, he definitely capped his college career right, though.
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j/c,
My Top 5 Safety:
--Nasir Adderley, Delaware
--Darnell Savage, Maryland
--Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, Florida
--Amani Hooker, Iowa
--Juan Thornhill, Virginia
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With our recent safety signings, shouldn't our focus shift to CB ? I realize that the safeties we signed aren't word beaters but we do have some depth there now. Even before the signings I though our corner depth was pretty thin. I think CB now trumps safety based purely on need.
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j/c...
I do see Stephen Denmark in our Future.
He might become the sleeper pick of all Sleeper picks!
SS in his future here? Burnett will be his mentor by example.
jmho
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With our recent safety signings, shouldn't our focus shift to CB ? I realize that the safeties we signed aren't word beaters but we do have some depth there now. Even before the signings I though our corner depth was pretty thin. I think CB now trumps safety based purely on need. I think our biggest need is Lb Schobert in my opinion is very overrated Above average is pass defense (not great) Very below average in run defense He is also a FA after this season Now is the perfect time to bring in his replacement Unfortunately, I don't see an improvement being available with our current pick. I like Terill Hanks NM St but I think he is more of an Olb
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Schobert was selected in the 4th round. If we can get him there, we can improve on him where we are picking.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I think Schobert is underrated. Our defense went to hell last year in the games he missed. He is very good in pass coverage.
I think we could add a LBer, but I think S, CB, and DT are more pressing needs.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2019 NFL Season 2019 NFL Draft ...So...Safeties
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