DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Mueller Report In-Findings Thread

Trump is an unsavory character, he lies all the time. He surrounded himself with crooks and liars, so of COURSE the full report is going to look bad, they aren't good guys.


I hate that I have to keep repeating this. This entire premise, this entire investigation was that Trump colluded with Russia to steal a democratic election. It wasn't about taxes, or campaign finance. It was a media and left wing hoax that Robert Mueller found no evidence to charge a single american.


I can admit to all the bad things about Trump, it's time you at LEAST own that he did not collude with Russians. At at a minimum say that at this time, with the evidence that has come forth from the summary it appears he did not collude, I would even be happy with that.

They are too heavily invested in his having colluded to ever admit they were wrong and he didn't. That would be two years of whining, down the drain. The only viable option for them, go farther out on that limb.

So after it was proven as fact that the Russians definitely interfered, definitely wanted to help Trump win ... and then after all the circumstantial evidence regarding meetings, lies, more lies, then more lies about meetings and discussions ... after Trump Jr communicated with a Russian operative and arranged a meeting with all the top campaign leaders present .... you think it was a hoax to investigate? I think there was just cause. I always said that. And I think the list of individuals charged as a direct result of Mueller's investigation justifies the investigation in and of itself...

Since the investigation is over I have said the same thing as well - I totally trust Mueller. If the report says there isn't enough grounds to prosecute for collusion - then I believe it..... move on. As for the obstruction issue - I do not trust Barr's crafted summary one bit. We need to know what's in the report. Congress has an absolute right to see an un-redacted report, not the public.

I didn't mean it like that, it was worth investigating. The hoax was that the media and sitting member of congress and intelligence officials were telling the American people that this was a no doubt slam dunk, WITH EVIDENCE that they had personally seen (in Schiffs case).

Obstruction is something else altogether. I don't know much about it, but seeing all the people Donald fired and his tweets, it's not impossible.

Fair enough ... as for obstruction, put it this way, if it was anyone other than Trump doing the firing and the tweeting, the attacking and the undermining, it'd be a slam dunk. As it is, we'll see. Won't change anything because he ain't going to be impeached and the Trump supporters will continue to follow him no matter what. Next election will come down to the Democratic nominee standing for something and pulling the country together with a clear message that isn't simply that Trump is a douoche.

They would need to not be a douche themselves, after seeing the early field, that isn't very likely.

j/c

It has already been established that Trump wasn't exonerated in the Mueller report by Barr himself, so it's about time you all quit repeating what the leadwe in the clown car is saying.

All down to personal opinion ... but there isn't anyone on the Dem line up that stinks half nearly as bad as Trump. I thought Hilary is/was an unsavory candidate, she ran a pitiful campaign .... she could have/should have been prosecuted for her email/server issue .... and she still smells like the sweetest jasmine compared to the douche that is Trump.

Seems to be the way it goes around here.

Yep ... though I think you'd struggle to find another candidate (GOP or Dem) who is on record as having lied a few thousand times in the last 2 and a bit years, someone with audio recording of them bragging about sexually molesting/abusing women and someone with countless (believe it at least in the teens) ongoing investigations into them and their organization .... but hey, some folks think those things make an attractive candidate.

You got a link for that, because I haven't heard they were offered the FULL Report.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/...aled/ar-BBVB0HE

So now there seems to be a rift developing between members of the special councils staff and Barr. Seems Barr’s summary of the report was a little too rosy on the presidents behalf. So I would think that the White House is going to limit what Congress sees

They weren’t

All of this is dross and folly. No matter how redacted, edited or sanitized the report may be by the time they get their hands on it, congress has one ace in the hole: for any missing information they may want that doesn't compromise natl security or jeopardize other ongoing actions they have simply to subpoena Robert Mueller to testify under oath.

He won't lie under oath, but he won't volunteer anything either. So it's their job to ask him the right questions in the right way so as to get the honest truth... and let the chips fall as they may.

In this scenario, the Barr 4-page summary is inconsequential. Barr himself is inconsequential. America gets her funk uncut... straight from the man who actually ran the investigation.

I think that's the way it should be handled. Out in the open. Above-board. On C-Span, so that We The People can see/hear for ourselves.
The very definition of transparency.

If there is excessive stonewalling from 1600, I fully expect this to be a step that is taken. It's how I would roll if I had a seat on CapHill.


.02

Some in Mueller's team see report as more damaging to Trump than Barr summary: NY Times

https://news.yahoo.com/muellers-team-see-report-more-damaging-trump-barr-003833285.html

Just to emphasize what north posted. This is odd for sure. And this is why people want to see the report themselves, not some summary of what the AG said.

Conservatives should want the report to be public.

I said this the other day ... suggesting Trump is innocent on all counts is like saying Jussie Smollet is innocent on all counts because he is not being indicted. Simplifying this down to "we were right and you were wrong" doesn't reflect reality.

I'm pretty confident he is talking strictly about collusion. I don't think there is any wiggle room here.

The fact that they are going after Barr and the summary is a last gasp at a dying narrative. You can't simply surrender something you have stated as a fact for 2 years and save face at the same time.

The same clowns telling people to accept the results were the ones who didn’t accept that Hillary didn’t do anything, didn’t accept that Obama isn’t a foreign born Muslim, wouldnt accept that nothing was wrong with uranium one, and blindly accepted bush when he said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

Most of you simply don’t have the track record to trust a word you say.

Actually, that's a giant sized box of BS...

First, it's clear after yesterdays reports revealing that several of Muellers investigators say that Barr wasn't telling the whole truth about the investigations conclusions.

Second, How can Gaetz say that without seeing the entire Mueller Report? And if he saw it, Who allowed him access?

At this point, I don't think we could possibly know that the Barr summary is close to accurate.. Until we see the report, none of us know.

So, essentially, Gaetz is lying and you bought into it hook, line and sinker.

IMO, if the Mueller report Cleared Trump all all wrong doing, Barr would have released it in a NY Second.. the very fact that he didn't, speaks volumes..

I helped pay for that report, I want to see it.

Unless the entire Summary is a fraud which is yet another conspiracy theory coming from the left, he would be correct. Your entire argument is based on "reports" from leftist media, I can't believe you would believe an establishment willing to die on the Russiagate cross.


It sounds insane to me, that you would yet again take the word of a group who told you abject lies for 2 years.



and look, if by the very small chance what you're saying is true, I will be a man and own it. It seems like SUCH A HAIL MARY from a group that has ALL credibility to lose that I cannot believe anyone with an objective mind would buy it.

I understand the sentiment, and to a point I agree, but I think there are some serious considerations here. The way I understand it Counsels typically don't issue reports in cases where there are no indictments. This is to protect the person under investigation because 'innocent untilproven guilty in a court of law'. I don't think we want to go a route where prosecutors either can't make a case or simply decide they don't need to and just try their cases in the court of public opinion i.e. the mob.

This doesn't mean that we don't already see examples of prosecutors flirting with this. I think every one of us here could bring up a case or two where the prosecutors or investigators tries a case in the media. Chicago PD dumped a fair amount of investigative notes when they got word Jussie Smullet's charges were dismissed. CPD is justified in being pissed, but I don't know that I'm 100% ok with them releasing those notes like that.

But we are talking about the President. So I get a report being issued. Enquiring Minds want to Know! and all.

But do people reallyknow what it is they are asking for when they demand a 100% un-redacted report? I don't think we do. We're talking about making the names of around 500 "witnesses" or people interviewed public. Criminal informants, investigative techniques, statements from people who only cooperated under promise of anonymity...

Now I get all that info isn't likely to be in the 300 pages, but we're calling for transparency right? It's not enough to get Mueller's notes. We need to see who and what actually precipitated the investigation. We need to see what the FISA Courts were presented with.

My sense of it is however is that summarizing and redacting the report is actually doing Dems a solid just as much if not more than it would for Trump. One of the possibilities I've maintained is that there may very well be evidence of working with the Ruskies but because of the misconduct that occurred under Comey, it may not be prosecutable.

-Comey leaking to get an Independent Counsel when all he really had to do was ask
-McCabe's lack of truth in sworn testimony
-The commentary between Strzok and Page
-Rosenstein signing off on FISA warrants whose probable cause was at least in part based on a paid for, manufactured document (The Dossier). If THAT is included it brings in to question what other things were presented as "probable cause" that weren't on the up and up?


I mean even things like the Russians hacking the DNC server... the DNC refused to turn it over to the FBI so they could investigate the matter for at least a couple months. That's rather curious... (Personally I think some of Anthony Weiner's kiddie porn had made it across their servers and they were trying to get it off of there)

Getting away from the factual and to the political: who really believes it took Mueller 2 years to determine there wasn't any collusion (or the case wasn't prosecutable)? What happens if the report shows Mueller largely knew within the first 6 months or year? How then do they explain the 'coincidence' of the results being held until after the Mid terms?

Tweets his own BS Trumpian spin speech to pat himself on the back... smh

Not going to happen because Trump is a crook and looks like a traitor.

[quote=BpG]Unless the entire Summary is a fraud which is yet another conspiracy theory coming from the left, he would be correct. Your entire argument is based on "reports" from leftist media, I can't believe you would believe an establishment willing to die on the Russiagate cross.


It sounds insane to me, that you would yet again take the word of a group who told you abject lies for 2 years.



and look, if by the very small chance what you're saying is true, I will be a man and own it. It seems like SUCH A HAIL MARY from a group that has ALL credibility to lose that I cannot b

Is that what I said... I never said the entire summary was a Fraud did I.

And I don't think it is.. I think the part about Obstruction is a fraud.. that's just a guess of course because as you know, I've not been granted access to the entire Mueller report....

Anyone other than Barr and his team, Mueller and his team can't really say whats in it.

Time will tell on that score...

Defending the Barr Summary without full knowledge of the contents of the Mueller report is as stupid as condemning the Mueller report if you've not read it.

Is that what I said... I never said the entire summary was a Fraud did I.

And I don't think it is.. I think the part about Obstruction is a fraud.. that's just a guess of course because as you know, I've not been granted access to the entire Mueller report....

Anyone other than Barr and his team and Mueller and his team can't really say whats in it. But to be fair, it appears that a few of the Mueller team have let the cat out of the bag on some mistatements from the Barr summary...

Time will tell on that score...

Defending the Barr Summary without full knowledge of the contents of the Mueller report is as stupid as condemning the Mueller report if you've not read it.

Nobody has seen a single letter of the Mueller report! Barr is giving it a good whitewashing before he releases it and only after planting and allowing this story of 'No Collusion/No Obstruction' to go uncontested by facts for a month or more. You can't make this stuff up.

Barr has poisoned the process in heavy favor to Trump. You must be blind to not be able to see that. Yet here you are arguing the left is this and that while supporting the withholding of vital facts needed to draw your own honest conclusions. This makes you either extremely gullible or highly complicit in this scheme to water down Mueller's findings.

Condemning Barr is so predictable though. It would not matter who it was that put the summary out....if the result was no collusion they attack that person, it could be Mother Theresa and she would have been a Russian stooge.


I am not basing it off anything but the FACT that not one American was charged. Mueller could have concluded he thinks Trump was guilty of obstruction. He could have alleged a Trump/Russia conspiracy, or could have charged Trump officials & family members with conspiring with Russia, but didn't.


These are last gasps of a dying conspiracy theory that people refuse to concede. Like I said, it is a hail mary to think there is something in the fine lines that is going to lead to any of the above.

What the hell are you talking about facts?

FACTS like not on single American was charges with ANYTHING related to Russian collusion?

In one breath you say I cannot have "facts" to backup what I am saying because I haven't seen it but I'm blind to not see that Barr favored Trump IN THE DOCUMENT THAT YOU ALSO HAVE NOT SEEN! You CANNOT prove that are you trolling?

THE FACT is that not one person was CHARGED. Mueller could have charged anyone he wanted and chose not to, THAT is a fact!

So apparently you hinge much of your argument on Mueller not bringing charges for "collusion" which is not a chargeable offense. He also did not bring charges of conspiracy, but that does not mean there was no conspiracy or obstruction, it just means he didn't have an iron clad case or wasn't going to go against DOJ policy and charge a sitting POTUS.

Either way, letting the people see the unredacted facts would in no way be harmful to Trump if he is so innocent. So tell me why redact? Why delay?

I can understand not making certain things public, but they could damn sure give unredacted copies to the leaders in congress and just mark it all classified until the redactions are done for public consumption. The crazy lefties would be cool with their leaders saying there is nothing there... But you can't seriously expect us to take Barrs summary as the gospel on this! If so, you truly are delusional.

When all reports show that there was indeed collusion and when we witness the obstruction by both Trump, his kids, his son in law, his supporters in congress and then Trump himself saying he was completely cleared when the Summary by Barr didn't say that, why the hell wouldn't I question it. it would be idiotic not to.

I will say it once more, Mueller could have concluded he thinks Trump was guilty of obstruction. He could have alleged a Trump/Russia conspiracy, or could have charged Trump officials & family members with conspiring with Russia, but didn't.

It's also not out of the ordinary for things to be redacted, stop acting like it is. They have to protect sources, snitches and the innocent. Not really that hard to understand why redaction are not only normal, but understandable. It is perfectly reasonable to give them time to review and redact and the FACT that Mueller is WORKING WITH THEM kills the conspiracy.

I will say it again, Trump has surrounded himself with crooks and liars, so of course he doesn't want it to come out, it's certainly going to make him look bad. That has nothing to do with the outcome, which was no one was charged with anything related to stealing a democratic election.

I am calling now, the report is going to come out redacted or not redacted. The entirety of the left is going to pivot to something unrelated to conspiracy or collusion and ignore the entire reason for this investigation!

Except the most important part that you keep ignoring, Mueller did not charge anyone.

I agree 100% the left will pivot if after verification there is no there there... They'll pivot to one of the other 17 or so investigations for criminal conduct of Trump and company.

He's a crook, plain and simple.

I believe that Trump has always been a shady business man. Certainly he is possibly a crook.


That has NOTHING to do with the 3 year crusade the media, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters and people liek yourself has embarked on. Telling the world they had PROOF that he stole an election and should be impeached for TREASON.

Really,,, Is it over yet? No,, Mueller left a lot of meat on the plate for SDNY and other districts.. This is far from over.

Just the way he acted in Helsinki should get him impeached for TREASON.

Oh my god bro, COME ON.

Is the Mueller report concluded? Yes
Has anyone been charged with conspiracy? No


There is no wiggle room on this one.