DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Russell Wilson

Now, you are resorting to insults.


You asked a question. I answered it as honestly as I could. You come back w/something about me not being right and then proceed to bring up the "or what" point. I don't recall Wilson making a threat.

Da-mans-hot, if you want to make a point...make it. There is no need to phrase it in a question. I thought it was a legit question and I answered it. Not sure how that was wrong?

15th is almost over and no contract. Today PFT put out an article about the Seahawks trading Frank Clark to make extra money available for Wilson. This is exactly the issue I have with paying any one player this much. Too much of the other decent talent needs to be moved.

Wilson will need to block for Wilson, hand off to Wilson, throw to Wilson, and rush the passer and kick field goals.

It's becoming a real death sentence for quarterbacks.

The last time Flacco did anything was before he became the highest paid QB.
The Raiders seemed like the next big thing, then Carr became the highest paid QB.
The Falcons were Superbowl contenders, then Ryan became the highest paid QB.
The Packers were a dynasty-in-waiting, then Rodgers became the highest paid QB.
The Lions were quickly ascending, then Stafford became the highest paid QB.
The Vikings were a quarterback away, and then Cousins got paid.

Of course, that isn't in chronological order and there are a lot of factors at play, but dedicating too much money to the most important position in football is a counter-productive to success.

And the most successful quarterback in the history of the NFL is the proof.

Tom Brady is the 17th highest paid quarterback in the NFL this year. He's not looking for a pay rise as he chases his 7th Superbowl ring.

And it's the brilliant move.

Brady amassed a fortune from a solid NFL contract, endorsement deals and his off-field business dealings.

In checking this out, I found this:



And, why?



Anyone who has followed Brady's career knows that he is one of the most deeply competitive players in NFL history. He is also obsessed with football, winning and pathologically angry about ever being overlooked.

The guy knew very early on that maximising his financial return was beneficial to his bank account but detrimental to his chances of having on-field success. For the money that the team saves on Brady, they can afford several high-value players around him.

Tom Brady is still an obscenely wealthy man. That's the kicker. The estimates all hover around the $200 million range. The many isn't worried about putting food on the table, paying bills or getting his kids to college. Yet he's been able to accomplish that because his salary has never restricted Belichick from putting talent around him.

I don't care enough to research it because it's a fact that won't be contested: The man has a lifelong revenue stream from endorsement deals and selling basically any product he wants to create from Tom Brady merchandise to cooking books. His success has assured his cashflow will never run dry.

Russell Wilson, on his 3rd round pick salary, was waltzing towards a dynasty that could rival Brady's patriots. Then he got paid, and they've not been able to put a team around him. Part of this is because the talent around Wilson also wanted extremely high value, but Wilson already gets paid MORE than Tom Brady and he's demanding new money that will make him the highest paid player in the league.

Seattle are forced to determine their future: If they're talking about shipping off what talent they have left just to retain his services, or shipping Wilson off.

It is scary when you think about it. Look at the most exiting teams in the NFL. Chiefs. Browns. Rams. Eagles. Incredible talent with franchise quarterbacks in place... while they're on their rookie contracts.

The highest paid QB on a great team is Drew Brees at $25M per year, and even that team has slipped from their promise.

It is excruciatingly painful to think about - but if I was with Seattle, I'd lean towards trading Russell Wilson. He might legitimately be the best quarterback in the NFL, but finding a franchise quarterback is easier than finding 21 players to put around him with almost no budget to do so.

Let's be real....Brady's wife is a supermodel and makes WAAAAYYYYYYYY more money than he does. So, he can afford to take a lesser contract and be happy with it.

If youre curious

Linky

The Saints are a miracle and a blown call away from two straight Super Bowls.

It doesn't look that way. Checking out contract history:

Brady signed a 6 year, $60M deal in May 2005.

After Peyton Manning agreed to a 7 year, $99.2M deal in March 2004.
After Mike Vick agreed to a 10 year, $130M deal in December 2004.

Brady had already won three Superbowls (2002, 2004, 2005) so he was making considerably less than his less-successful peers.

Brady didn't meet his wife until 2007, before marrying in 2009, so he was already taking less money before they met.

After he took less.

Admittedly it started with his shoulder injury, but the Saints signed him for 6 years, $60M in 2006. It resulted in a Superbowl win and historic levels of production with great talent around him.

In 2012, however, he became the richest in the NFL.

7-9
11-5
7-9
7-9
7-9

What happens after this contract? Ironically, the article I'm reading says this...



So what did Drew Brees do?

In 2016 he signed a team-friendly 2 year contract worth just $44M.

11-5
13-3

In 2018 he signed another team-friendly 2 year contract with $50m. Both of these contracts are hardly more than he was being paid damn near a decade ago.

When you think about it, Brees has been playing the last four years for just $94M while Derek Carr (Yes, Derek Carr!) is on a 5 year, $125M deal.

It's crazy when you think about it, but a team-friendly deal for a QB seems to directly correlate to winning.

It should be said that Wilson was also on a pretty friendly deal until now. The only difference is that their talent wanted huge money and they've not drafted very well.

So, it is a little of everything, but we're talking insanity with Wilson. Rumour has it that he doesn't just want money, he wants a percentage of their salary cap so his contract will continuously inflate with the cap - which will not only make him the highest paid quarterback, but keep him the highest paid.

J/C

4 years, $140 million. $35 million per season.

Congratulations to him. Condolences to Seahawks faithful. Ouch.

Wow! Somebody describe any ceiling you see. Common sense says a lid at some point must exist. Incredible sums.

Congrats to the windfall reapers.

Tom Brady's contract with the Patriots hasn't been the biggest. I wouldn't be surprised if wealthy New Englanders have stuffed a lot of envelopes, though. I'm guessing some teams just get more creative with their compensation packages. Northeasterners know all about shell corporations.

The upcoming CBA will most likely limit individual contracts like this. It seems a bit prohibitive to have a QB making $35M while others around him are making a lot less and he's taking up such a huge chunk of the cap.

Will Baker come up for a new contract before or after the new CBA?

[quote=Versatile Dog]Now, you are resorting to insults.


You asked a question. I answered it as honestly as I could. You come back w/something about me not being right and then proceed to bring up the "or what" point. I don't recall Wilson making a threat.

Da-mans-hot, if you want to make a point...make it. There is no need to phrase it in a question. I thought it was a legit question and

More Childishness...

More Childishness...

To answer an earlier question, Mayfield is in year 2 of what will likely be a 5 year contract (though extended after 4).

So Extension would be sometime in the 2021 season. The current CBA expires 2020.

If the salary cap remains similar (currently at 188.2 and increasing about 6 % a year), it will be around 224 million for the 2022 season I believe.

That would mean top 5 qb's should expect to make at least 33.6 million per year plus some escalators (going off the 15% of team cap that seems to be the norm).

I think Wilson's new deal is pushing to average 16%, but you get the idea.

In short, they expensive.

j/c:

--It would have been hard to trade Wilson because the other team would have had to give up a lot of assets to acquire him and then face the prospect of signing him to a huge contract.

--Seattle had to give Wilson that money. They couldn't take the chance on eventually just losing him like the Steelers lost Bell.

--I have been trying to say this for awhile now, but the time to go all-in on acquiring talent is when you have a good qb who is on his rookie deal. Dorsey has done a great job of acquiring excellent talent while Baker's contract is favorable. Teams like the Rams, Chiefs, and Eagles have also taken advantage of similar situations.

--People talk about how much NFL players are making, but consider this. The NBA, MLB, and NHL all pay their players more than the NFL. The NFL's hard salary cap limits what players can make. Thus, when NFL teams rewards one player w/such a huge contract, many other players suffer financially. Sports like baseball don't have that issue. They can pay multiple players a lot of money.

--Consider this while digesting the above paragraph. The NFL generates far more revenue than the other sports.

--So, what's the problem here? Greedy players or greedy owners?

Owners.

They easily could pay the players a lot more with the revenue they make and create year in and year out. They do whatever they can to stifle the players.

I believe its time the salary cap gets a BIG increase, which I think it will under the new CBA.

Its really not. The NFL makes a TON of money, they can easily inflate the salary cap if they wished, they just refuse too because they don't want to dig into their pockets.

What a sad statement about a person with a wife and 3 kids....

It's an interesting perspective.

Evidently Wilson's new deal also includes a no trade clause.

Source: Seahawks make Wilson top-paid in NFL
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26535311/seahawks-make-wilson-top-paid-nfl

The Seattle Seahawks and Russell Wilson have reached agreement on a four-year, $140 million extension that includes a $65 million signing bonus and makes the quarterback the highest-paid player in the NFL, a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter on Tuesday morning.

With the four years added to his contract, Wilson, 30, is contractually tied to the Seahawks through the 2023 season, the source said.

In addition to topping Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers' contract as the richest ever with a new-money annual average of $35 million per season, Wilson's signing bonus also sets a record. Rodgers was first in both categories at $33.5 million and $57.5 million, respectively, on the extension he signed last summer.

The deal includes a no-trade clause, a source said.

Wilson, without specifying terms, said he had reached a deal in a video he posted to Twitter about 45 minutes after the passing of the midnight deadline that his side had set for an extension.

"Hey Seattle, we got a deal," a sleepy-sounding Wilson says while lying in bed next to his wife, Ciara. "Go Hawks. But I'ma see y'all in the morning. Time for y'all to go to bed."

The deal was apparently finished after four days of negotiations between the Seahawks and Wilson's agent, Mark Rodgers, who arrived at the team's headquarters Friday.

It keeps Wilson, a five-time Pro Bowler and the quarterback of the only Super Bowl-winning team in Seahawks history, under contract through his age-35 season. And it avoids the messy route of Wilson going year-to-year on the franchise tag, which would have paved the way for an eventual divorce.

"At the end of the day, my guy wants to live, work, thrive in Seattle," Rodgers said Tuesday. "Loves this town and its fans. He compromised to stay here. I respect that."

Wilson was set to make $17 million in 2019, the final season of the four-year, $87.6 million extension he signed in the summer of 2015. His side had given the Seahawks a deadline of midnight Monday for a new contract and, according to Schefter, did not intend to revisit negotiations this year if there wasn't a deal by that point.

Wilson had said at the end of last season that he would be comfortable going into the final year of his current deal if needed.

"Oh yeah, if that's what I've got to do," Wilson said. "It's business and everything. I know essentially after the season, I could potentially be a free agent, that kind of thing. I don't think that way. I see myself being in Seattle. I love Seattle, and it's a special place for me."

Coach Pete Carroll, also speaking at the end of the season, said an extension for Wilson was "very much in our plans." More recently, he said at the NFL's annual meetings last month that the two sides were "on it" in terms of a potential Wilson extension without elaborating. But when the deadline was first reported in early April and especially as midnight Monday drew nearer, there was no indication of whether they would come to an agreement.

Despite the uncertainty over his contract negotiations, Wilson was present for the start of the team's voluntary offseason program on Monday as his agent and the Seahawks continued to meet.

Wilson's 2015 extension averaged $21.9 million, which at the time made him the second-highest-paid quarterback in terms of annual average below Rodgers at $22 million. Wilson had fallen all the way to 12th on that list before his latest extension put him at the top.

With Wilson taken care of, the Seahawks can now focus their attention after the draft to potential extensions for All-Pro middle linebacker Bobby Wagner and Frank Clark, the team's top pass-rusher. However, it will be no easy task to extend both of their contracts given how much money the Seahawks are now paying Wilson and the fact that Wagner's and Clark's extensions would be near or at the top of the market for their positions. Clark has been the subject of trade rumors and has yet to sign his $17.128 million franchise tag.

Wilson is coming off arguably the best season of his seven-year career. He edged his previous career bests with 35 touchdown passes and a 110.9 passer rating while tying his career low of seven interceptions. Wilson did that on 427 attempts, his fewest since 2013, as the Seahawks operated one of the league's most run-heavy offenses. Only Drew Brees and Patrick Mahomes finished with a better rating than Wilson's 110.9.

If the salary cap could grow by 25%, assuming that's doable, wouldn't the QBs of the league just end up soaking that increase up? So, RW's contract wouldn't be $35M/year, it'll be $45M/year.

I don't care if the salary cap grows or not, the NFL players deserve more guarantees for sure, but I'm suggesting an NBA-like contract system. If you don't do that, the QBs will just end up taking the lions share of the cap like they do now and that leaves the rest of the team fighting for scraps.

Supply and Demand, if the teams are willing to pay them the extra money, that's on the team, not the player.

A player is only worth what a team is willing to pay him, you get that right? That is why RBs make less than QBs, teams are not willing to pay them that much. If teams stopped paying the QBs this kind of money - the Qbs would start to accept less. Where else are they going to play?

Supply and Demand.

Edit to add:

I would not be against of say position caps. Like the salary cap, each position has a its own cap.

QB has a max salary
RB has a max salary
WR has a max salary
etc. etc. then you have a total team salary cap at a limit as well.

I thought that was my point I was making, not a position cap, but a player cap. Meaning, one player can't be X% or more of the cap. The league and the union need to come together on this. Sure, the QB is the most important position, but what good is having a very good QB if you can't afford to field a team around him? There has to be a middle ground.

"Afford" made me laugh. Anyone making that much money can afford anything they need and pretty much whatever they want no matter what their spouse/partner makes. But, you make a good point.

Teams can mostly definitely afford to have talented teams around expensive QBs. It’s just harder to accomplish. If you don’t have the QB you have basically no chance at being good.

Spotrac doesn't have his deal in their system yet - it'll be interesting to see how their cap situation changes. I know they had about 10m in space before the deal. His cap hit was 25m for this season, and I suspect that won't change because this is being labeled as an extension as opposed to a new contract. I suspect his cap hits will be 32m next year, 34 the following, 36, the following and 38 his last year. Crazy numbers.

One team (and one year) is not a trend, it is an exception. BDU's post shows the trend. Kudos to Indy and I hope the Browns brass are paying attention to what they're doing.

Russell punching the clock with 18% of the salary cap in his pockets. We'll see if they improve from a perennial 10-6 first round loser... I doubt it.

The Seahawks have won one Super Bowl and were a dumb-call away from winning a second w/Wilson as their qb.

They would have been ignorant to let him get away.

I won't argue that point at all. Just interested to see how it plays out. One player making 18% of the salary pool will make it tough. Someone mentioned a "position cap" or something to that effect, NFL needs to do something.

Everyone can cry foul about greedy owners til the cows come home, really doesn't hold a lot of cred when the player ranks show a hard line of "haves" and "have nots".

We should point out that the Colts are rebuilding from having such a terrible team that mounting injuries almost ended Luck's career.

They have cash to spend because they have few players worth anything. That certainly looks poised to change, but the question is now about sustainability.

Can they amass enough talent around Luck before their cheap rookie deals end? Can they consistently draft enough talent to replace the players who will inevitably walk?

They've started well, but going 10-6 against a very weak schedule (Tenn x2, NYJ, NYG, OAK, JAX, BUF, WAS, CIN) is just a start.

They're a long way from contending, and having a high-paid QB narrows the window of how long you have to amass that talent.

But, it's all ultimately irrelevant. You're going to pay your quarterback. That's the model for success. Find two or three centrepieces, put as much talent around them as possible.

The Seahawks are different. They already have no cap space and players that need deals. It looks like they're going to have to take steps backwards to try and move forward with Wilson.

$35 million per year is an insane cost.

Yet the players aren't the ones setting the values on the positions. The owners are doing that.

Right. Which is why the league must step in. All markets need regulation.

There’s literally a salary cap.

I think that's an odd position to take. I mean from a fan standpoint I guess it makes sense. But when one thinks about it, it seems you're advocating that boundaries be set on a supply side economic principal.

It seems what you're saying is that it's the owners who are paying these high prices and they must step in to save themselves? Supply and demand set every market in our society accept for very few. But the NFL is a purely competitive bidding process for talent. The owners have set the bar high on bidding among themselves for these QB's. It's the market they have created.

Are you suggesting you believe multi billionaires will set some arbitrary cap on QB salaries so they can't use the power and leverage of their wallets to gain a competitive upper hand?

And why would QB's start signing for less money in a sport where owners keep making more? I don't really see an advantage for either side to broker such an agreement.

Uh, yeah... I think everyone's aware of that. I'm talking about single players, namely QBs eating up enormous amounts of the cap.