DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus White House and Justice Dept. Officials Discussed Mueller Report Before Release

j/c:

I think the best coaching job I ever did resulted in the worst record I ever had. I took a high school basketball job early on in my coaching career. The team had won a total of 3 games in the past two years.

The negativity that surrounded the team was off the charts. All we heard is what they couldn't do, how bad they were, who was most at fault, etc, etc.

My first priority was to change the culture. I recognized the past and vowed to learn from it while not dwelling on it. I accentuated the positive. What is that we can do? How do we build on that? How can we use our strengths to our advantage? How can we cover for those who struggle in certain areas while they cover for us in areas where we may struggle? How do we become a family and recognize that despite are many differences, we are united as one?

12 and 8 ain't great, but it sure beat the 1 and 19 from the year before and the 2 and 19 from the year before that.

I can tell similar stories from my days as an educator. The power of positive thinking and working together as opposed to assigning blame and looking for faults in others is huge to one's progress.

I know no one wants to hear that crap, but I'm putting it out there anyway. Perhaps it might be best to stop pointing fingers and lend a helping hand?

cool.

you can start buy telling the MAGA hatters that Mueller did NOT clear Trump from obstruction, despite the fact that they keep repeating blatantly false information.

you want people to try to come together, but people can't even acknowledge basic facts. you have to get people to acknowledge basic facts before you can start working on solutions.

you also have to get people to apply the same standard. the goal post keeps getting moved with the MAGA Hatters. they (Arch)whined and whined about the shadiness of Clinton, talking about ethics and all this, yet all of a sudden, Arch won't slam trump for being a shady as hell individual, and having horrible ethics. he doesn't care so much that you already know he's voting for trump again, despite him being shown to be much much worse than hillary.

you want us to come together for solutions? cool, then you can start by getting the MAGA hatters to specifically state the FACT that the ONLY reason trump didn't get charged with obstruction is because the people he ordered to fire mueller and run interference wouldn't do it.

MAGA hatters seem to want us to give credit to trump for.....failing to break the law? i dunno how that works.

Bro, of course those folks are wrong. On the other hand, the people on the left are also wrong. Neither side wants to give a little. Neither side wants to accept blame for anything and instead wants to place all the blame on the other side.

Come on, man...........we all have problems. None of us are perfect. Neither is our nation or any one political party, ideology, race, gender, religious preferences, etc.

We're just humans, bro. We all have our strengths and faults. What good does it do to continually bicker about which side is to blame?

It is my contention that we are all to blame. I think we should be more understanding of our differences and work together to find solutions rather than hating one another.

Bro, you and I could argue and I would knock you on your ass, but I would pick you right back up and actually defer to you for awhile. Having power is not about abusing it, it's about Using it for the greater good.

thats all fine.

but you cant come up with solutions if people cant even acknowledge basic facts. for example, i've repeatedly acknowledge that trump did NOT conspire with the russians. i also maintained that i hoped he didn't to begin with. i cant speak for anybody else.

but that doesnt change the fact that people are here talking about "no obstruction" when that couldnt be further from the truth.

Yeah, I get that.

But, why should those of us who want a better country waste so much time on the freaking idiots who will always be haters? They aren't changing their minds. There are racists out there who will always be racist no matter what. There are dems out there that will always hate the GOP. And the opposite is true. There are people on all sides of religion who will hate on others.

They are all narrow-minded souls who aren't worth our time.

Bro, it is my belief that we should concentrate on intelligent, open-minded folks who are flexible enough to adjust their line of thinking and understand how important it is evolve as a species.

It's time for the educated, rational, and fair-minded people to come together to combat the ignorance, bias, and hatred of the ignorant folks that typically dominate conversations.

Because we tried to ignore them last time, so they threw a hissy fit and gave us trump. Unfortunately we don’t have a choice but to engage with them, or next time they’ll elect Roy Moore or ted nugent.

I think it's odd that those around Trump supplied Russia with campaign data, coordinated the email releases with Trump's stumping, communicated with wikileaks & Russian Oligarchs... both the Russians and Trump knew what each other was doing and both were working to get Trump elected! But hey, there was no documentation proving it just witness testimony, so 'No Collusion'.

j/c:

Glad to see that I got people to think about alternative logic instead of continually pursuing the blame game. LOL

Have fun, folks.

I think you might have some misplaced expectations. Believe it or not, those conversations actually do occur. Oftentimes, they are between two, maybe three posters who find a topic/niche and do a deep dive that will sometimes last a couple pages.

The problem in your case is that one has to be around to read those exchanges as they pop up. Such events happen organically within the flow of a thread; they aren't initiated on cue simply because it is suggested. I know that you're an infrequent visitor to this neighborhood, so you probably miss some of these talks that I'm describing.

Stick around, and you'll find them. You'll have to wade through lots of the stuff you don't like, but when they pop up, they are quite interesting. I've been in a few over the years, but mostly I like to just read the brothers convo as a bystander. Gotta warn you, though: you will not see handshake agreements and mutual resolutions to go out and change the world at the end of these conversations. It's more like the convo drifts in other directions.

It seems that you'd like to initiate substantive change by interacting on a fansite message board. While I think something like that is possible, I also think it's highly unlikely. People don't come here for that. And those who do wish to make a positive difference do so away from this site. Some volunteer their time and service within their communities. Some donate money to causes they believe in. Some mentor young people through their schools or churches. We even have a Dawg Talker who ran for public office in 2018.

I think your motivations are honorable. I just don't see this forum ever becoming a positive political think tank. Those positive convos happen, but not as an ingrained purposeful feature of the forum. That would require both intent and mutual consent from the parties involved. This is an awkward and less-than suitable format for that.

I'm afraid you're kinda stuck with things the way they are, as you wait around for the good talks to pop up (like weeds in sidewalk cracks, nyuk, nyuk)


.02,
clem

Mueller made 14 referrals to other courts for criminal activity that was outside of his scope. So far only 2 have been made public.

A major cover up in plain sight. And the GOP sheep on capital hill point to the dems and give another pass to the dumb orange blob in the WH. Typical.

I don't understand how Trump knowing what Russia was doing on his behalf and coordinating the release of stolen emails with wikileaks is not conspiracy. Mueller basically surmised that there was a lack of documentation or paper trail to confirm Trump's intent so even though his actions were sleazy they did not meet the criteria for charges! WTH? If anyone of us did this we would be in prison for life, it's called Treason!

Then on all the numerous obstruction points that Mueller made, Trump is obviously guilty but pure inept leadership, bumbling, and a handful of people not willing to cross the lines saved him. Between those people stopping him from doing stupid crap and Trump not using email or leaving a paper trail, he got lucky to not give Mueller enough to meet the strict criteria to say without doubt that he obstructed justice even though Mueller says he can't clear him!

If this stands, if the GOP supports this, they have just created America's first 'Above the Law' precedent for traitors.

Trump displays zero respect for the law and the constitution, or the honesty, integrity, and decency we expect in a POTUS. I don't even recognize this country anymore, what have we become?

Barr lies better than trump and is trying to clear him by misrepresenting the report. We need to see the full report. Barr is acting like trump’s attorney here which is unconstitutional. Congress must act today or the game is over. trump gains his dictatorship and is crowned.

Deplorable.

Man, you love having me in your mouth don't you. . .

I knew you’d feel left out. Lol

Ah yes, the current MSM Alex Jones is at it again.

Trump started out Yesterday with this:



He was trying to sell his and Barr's 'Totally Exonerated' BS!

This morning, less than 24 hours later:





He sure doesn't sound exonerated now. The Mueller Report was very damning.

Breaking news The house issues subpoenas for the full report.

The disconnect is....

We the people view the federal government as a body that has tremendous influence over our daily lives and should be looking out for our best interest...

They the power brokers in DC view the federal government as a game of Risk, where they shift pieces and strategize to try to gain control, defeat their opponent, and have as much power as possible.

And the present game is being won by a dictator that holds more power than any president in American history. And the sheep fall silent.

I think the more important question is how much contempt does William Barr have for the American people to pull the stunt that he did yesterday. Total sham and he is supposed to be the AG

How does he hold more power than any president in history?

This is a good read and highlights why Barr is a disgrace.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/us/politics/mueller-report-william-barr-excerpts.html

1. His AG is protecting him. He’s acting as his lawyer.
2. The gop sheep on Capitol Hill are silent and believe all the lies and tweets.
3. He controls a major news outlet.
4. He has a military presence in Yemen that the senate has voted to end and ordered to remove our precious troops from harms way and trump vetoed it.
5. He’s placed two SCJ on the SC.
6. He’s written Putin a new lease.
7. He’s given a voice to Lil Kim.
8. He’s taken taxes from the poor and given that to the rich.
9. He’s single handily pulled resources from the military, farming, school programs, the poor, the starving and given that to a useless wall.
10. And the top reason he has more power than anyother president in our history. Most of his cabinet are acting secretaries and not confirmed by congress giving him even more power to his budding dictatorship.

Refs, you’re dead ass wrong if you suspend me. I’m only tweeting what our lovely POTUS is saying, after all.




Yea, sounds like a guy who’s totally exonerated, right? Lmfao this clown is a joke.

You have a couple valid points, a few speculations, and a couple that are BS.. You are about 3 for 10.. that could make you rich in the MLB.

Let’s take the valid points first. Or do you just want to play gotcha?

It did work. It will continue to work. See, what you wish to do is ignore the actual report and listen to Barr's account of its conclusion. Barr's comments have nothing to do with what's in the actual report.

What's in the report states that some of those surrounding Trump saved him from himself by refusing to do what he wanted them to do.

What's in the report is that Don Jr., Kushner and Manafort did their very best to collude with Russia. They actually went to a meeting in order to do just that. Fortunately for them the Russian that claimed to have dirt on Hillary didn't have it. But if you're looking for the intent to collude with Russia, it's certainly there.

It's obvious you don't really care about what's actually in the report.

You do realize that for anything to be debated or any compromise to work, both sides actually have to have a plan to start with, right?

The Republicans have no healthcare plan proposed. They spend all their time attacking any and every plan the Dems have but offer up none of their own.

The new green deal is nothing more than a pipe dream of course, yet the Republicans offer up no plan to clean up or protect the environment.

We see corporations like Amazon and Eli Lilly and at least 60 giant, profitable corporations who paid zero in income taxes, and some even got huge returns on top of that. The Republicans yell all the left wants to do is tax the rich yet offer no proposal as to how we can close the loopholes to stop this from happening.

You see, to have a middle ground, to find a compromise, both sides at least need to come to the table with their own plan to create a starting point with which to work from.

Reporting facts that are actually in the report isn't playing the blame game.

From Page 220 of the Mueller Report: "Under applicable Supreme Court precedent, the Constitution does not categorically and permanently immunize a President for obstructing justice through the use of his Article II powers . The separation-of-powers doctrine authorizes Congress to protect official proceedings, including those of courts and grand juries, from corrupt, obstructive acts regard less of their source. We also concluded that any inroad on presidential authority that would occur from prohibiting corrupt acts does not undermine the President's ability to fulfill his constitutional mission. The term "corruptly " sets a demanding standard. It requires a concrete showing that a person acted with an intent to obtain an improper advantage for himself or someone else, inconsistent with official duty and the rights ofothers. A preclusion of"corrupt" official action does not diminish the President's ability to exercise Article II powers. For example , the proper supervision of criminal law does not demand freedom for the President to act with a corrupt intention of shielding himself from criminal punishment , avoiding financial liability, or preventing personal embarrassment. To the contrary, a statute that prohibits official action undertaken for such corrupt purposes furthers, rather than hinders, the impartial and evenhanded administration of the law. It also aligns with the President's constitutional duty to faithfully execute the laws. Finally, we concluded that in the rare case in which a criminal investigation of the President ' s conduct is justified, inquiries to determine whether the President acted for a corrupt motive should not impermissibly chill his performance of his constitutionally assigned duties . The conclusion that Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the President ' s corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law."

MUELLER, p. 390, footnote 1991: "A possible remedy through impeachment for abuses of power would not substitute for potential criminal liability after a President leaves office."

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4cpzkRW0AMRVZ5.png

Not to deflect from Trump and how bad the report is for him, there is also a good article on CNN highlighting how bad Obama comes out in all this.

And, just saw a worrying story on the NYT about counter intelligence investigation that is troubling to say the least.

Clem nailed it. It's the end of the beginning. Stay tuned.

Jc

Well well well, trumps victory lap certainly didn’t last long. Y’all boy and his cronies are out here trashing the mueller report non stop now.

Doesn’t sound like complete and total exoneration to me. But leave it to trump to not stay on message.

Even in....lol, “victory”, trump still finds a way to act defeated.

Always the Victim.

Got one problem with what you said. You reference CNN. You've got to be kidding me!

Yeah, it's uncanny. Always a victim, yet always in 'attack mode' as well.

The walking embodiment of "the terrible twos."

j/c

This thread is so damn comical! You guys can hang on to those words, 'this does not exonerate'....lmao since when does a special counsel or prosecutor EXONERATE anybody? Their job is to find evidence to prove GUILT! Did that happen? NOPE! Well crap man we have 10 incidents that MIGHT be obstruction, stick it where the sun don't shine!

Bottom line, Mueller stole taxpayers money by putting out a report that is in no way definitive like he was paid to do. So he makes a STUPID statement about not exonerating Trump for you weak minded people to salivate over. What a crock!

Guys like me want to know if he did or didn't. The country I gave part of my life to has this saying, INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. He didn't prove Trump guilty of ANYTHING but hey, let's muddy the waters some more by saying this does not exonerate....lmao

Also, comparing what Trump did to influence testimony or whatever to Hillary destroying evidence is a load of bull. I'm curious to know what you guys would do or say when accused of something.....frickin hilarious!