DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum This is playoff quality roster however........

I think most media outlets and fans have the Browns a lock for the playoffs and possible North title.
Dorsey has done a great job of adding talent for a nice 4 to 5 year competitive run.

but.....

what if the Browns dont make the playoffs this year?
there is no guarentees in the NFL much less life itself.
the only thing I know consistant in the NFL over time
is the Patriots have rewritten the book on dominance.

If the Browns dont reach the playoffs what will you attribute that too?
is 9 and 7 a improvement if they dont make the playoffs?

I think a slow start in the 1st 8 games or injury to Mayfield could hinder things.
remember the Browns have 3 games at home 5 on the road to start the season.
The Titans game will not be easy at all.

We still have holes at every level of defense. If they are not addressed in the draft we may not make the playoffs.

9-7 itself is obviously an improvement. But you bring up a good point of whether or not that will be acceptable given the context you laid out.

I think 9-7 would be considered acceptable IF the division is a close race this year going down to the last couple of weeks. The problem with that still is it will require even more context i.e. how did our losses look? On paper we have the offensive firepower to handle most anyone. If that offense doesn't produce there will be some 'splainin to do. I'd even argue that because of what we haveon paper our defense only needs to be solid in order to be looking at a playoff spot. Now clearly we want better than that because or defense on paper should be more capable than that.

I said it in the schedule thread and I’ll say it again, the odds are clrearly against us getting into the playoffs. Totally could happen, best odds since 2007/08 before the wheels came off that one. But we’re much more likely to ring in an 8-8 or 9-7 than 10-6 or above. Everything is new and young with this team and we have a head coach that hasn’t led anything at any level ever. The expectations have really gotten away from us fast. Yes, there’s major holes in secondary and LB and OL and depth in other areas and the draft ain’t going to solve all of it but the biggest issue is clearly the pure greenness of this team and, as you mentioned, a formidable season start. I would absolutely see 9-7 as a great start to potential several year run but the media will probably not. Anything less than 8-8 might get Kitchens fired, judging from the lofty expectations. Which isn’t fair, but whatever. I don’t know that people in the building don’t have more realistic expectations. I’m getting Sunday ticket for the first time this year because I expect it to be fun but I would not be 1 bit surprised by a 2-6 or 3-5 start.

I have to disagree, simply because the teams in the AFCN have crumbled, while we improved.

Bengals? Nope
Ravens? Running QBs don't last, and he has no passing game
Pitt? They are our only challenge, but they are weakened, and Ben is kinda long in the tooth

All we have to do is win our division. I think we can do that with this squad.

Even if we don't have all the pieces yet.

And, it's entirely possible that we have all the pieces after the draft.

There is no such thing as a perfect team. Every team has weak spots, and/or inexperience.

The Browns really have a complete team right now. Yes, it can be improved, and I believe that Dorsey will do everything he can to improve it, but this roster, from top to bottom, is better than most teams in the NFL right now.

It is amazing what Dorsey has done with this team in less than 2 years.

I think the North could be wide open.
the Ravens made the playoffs.
the Bengals and Steelers have QBs who have got their teams to the playoffs in recent years.
Mayfield is primed to make that leap.

the Ravens lost alot on defense.
is Jackson ready to be the identity of that franchise.

The Steelers have to reinvent their offense.

The Bengals have new HC new offense no one knows how they
will respond to a new young fresh approach

You seem to be stating the obvious....of course you have to win the games. No doubt injury can derail things, but you can't plan on that, it's just a part of any sport. No doubt there are weak areas, just like on any team. No O or D has 11 starters, backed up by 11 starting quality players.

I don't know who you feel thinks we have a cod lock on the division or playoffs, but I don't. I think we have a pretty good chance. Where it goes from there, we will find out as the season unfolds.

but.....SCHMUTT! The pieces have fallen into place nicely. It's finally our frickin' turn. The "what if's" finally are on the upside for us instead of dragging us down. Good teams find ways to overcome obstacles, good teams have holes. They don't dwell on the negatives and use them for excuses, they win despite them. Our time is NOW.



Any team can find stuff like this to dwell on. What's the point? If your good, expect to win. It's our turn.

until this season gets going I'm anxious about this being 2008. Huge expectations that year as well. Fun fact. last time we haven't had a first round pick...2008. I believe this is a more complete and sustainable team than the team in 2008 which i think got really lucky in 2007 and had a streak where things just worked out.. This team had to claw and fight for those 7 wins. Im not going to lie, for me the 100% most concerning thing for me this season is Freddie. Alot being asked of him..Hope he's up for the task. I just hope this coaching staff doesn't have the egos of the last one and everyone knows that working together is what's going to get it done. Everyone has a role in driving the bus. Is it august yet?

Attitude that is why we make the playoffs. There have been teams that have made the playoffs with far less, but they had a winning attitude. Now can attitude be the only thing , no, most have some talent and I think that has been addressed. We have a lot of talent and that talent need to be molded into a winner, however I'll put my money on what I saw in the attitudes of Mayfield and Kitchens and the rest last year. Yes the easy way out is to say "been there done that". However the thing that different this time is attitude, times past we would say ,we upgraded talent butttttt, there was never the team vibe of believing in themselves. Sure there are bridges to still cross, but we have never been this prepared and attitude is a big part of it

I haven't anointed this team as anything yet. But what I can say is that we have the best roster in any recent memory I can think of. There is most certainly every reason to be optimistic and have great hope for the success of this team. I'll take that every day of the week with the upcoming NFL season approaching. It's a feeling I haven't had in a very long time.

Of course that's no guarantee. With the salary cap no team has superstars at every position. But one thing is for sure in the short time Dorsey has been here. We've seen more good surprises than bad ones. We've seen a huge upgrade in talent on this roster.

Of course questions remain. We have a new HC, OC and DC. We have a lot of turnover on the roster yet again. That's a pretty big overhaul. Injuries are something that can devastate any team, not just ours.

If for some reason we don't make the playoffs, the reason why that happens isn't something you can't predict. That's something one will have to look at when it happens. It could be injuries. It could be the secondary. It could be the scheme on defense. It could be a myriad of things.

Right now I'm not going to try to find reasons for why not. There are too many things to feel good about. There are too many reasons to think we can and will make the playoffs. The attitude and potential are real. The roster is more than solid. So I plan to ride that wave until I see concrete evidence not to.

Well, that kinda depends upon what happens, doesn't it?





Well, that kinda depends upon what happens, doesn't it?

We have some very special things to hang our future hats on

1. Dorsey
2. Baker
3. Kitchens .... I think he could turn into one of the greats also.
He is innovative and just seems to know how to get things to work.
4. Maybe a half dozen Pro bowlers on the current roster

Lots and lots of hype. We have the talent to produce. Sure hope all comes together and we make it to the playoffs.

The Superbowl isn't handed to a team based on hype.

We thought we had an absolute ton of holes last year and people were predicting 3 wins.. then



You insert a couple key quality players, the coaches change, the attitude changes and suddenly those things you thought were glaring holes, aren't glaring holes any more...

If the players we are counting on, Garrett, Richardson, Vernon, Schobert, Ward.. etc play to their abilities, we don't need studs in the other positions to make the playoffs, we just need decent quality starters and we will be better than most.

another thing we have for the first time in a LONG time: expectations. It takes the right mindsets to manage expectations IMO

It does. We can't get ahead of ourselves, there are no guaranteed Ws on our schedule no matter how good we think we are.. and if we lose a game or two, we can't get too down.. need to be business-like and just stick to the plan.

10, what are the “major holes” you see in our o line. we have a high 2nd round draft pick stepping in at one guard position. is that the “major hole” you think you are seeing. our line performed tremendously the last 8-9 games after Robinson stepped in at lt. I think baker was sacked 5 times those last 8 games. Our line gave up 9 pressures during the last half of the season. next best line gave up 27 pressures I think.

Chubb gained 1000 yards , 4+ ypc I think. Those things do not happen with an o line with “major holes. one other thought. That line probably never practiced as a unit until midseason. with reps together this offseason that line should get better and better. A team always needs more and better depth but I do not think we have major holes in that line. It will be a strength this year.

We might have some temporary patches, but I don't see any outright holes.

Admittedly, some of those weak spots could give away suddenly. Who knows how the lesser knowns behind them would fill in?

However, getting too low can be similarly problematic to getting too high. No team only fields all stars.

I'm just trying to take it as it comes. We have potential. Lots of time for things to break in different directions, though.

As far as the defense .....

Yes, we do have some weaker spots ..... but they are not necessarily weak spots. Every position on our team was ranked at average or above. Every unit. Even the best teams have an average unit or 2 on their roster. No team has All Pros everywhere you look. It just doesn't happen in the NFL with a salary cap.

If Baker continues to grow, OBJ fits in without problems, and Vernon performs as I believe he will with Garrett across from him, and Richardson inside, (and of course, we stay mostly healthy) we should win 2-4 more games than we did last year.

I cannot remember looking forward to a season more than this one, in a long, long time. I think this team is ready to take a huge step forward.

Our D was not good last year. It was OK, thanks to the turnovers.

And we have added Vernon, Richardson, and Burnett, and got Kirksey back from injury. While I have been critical of Kirksey, I think that he is an acceptable OLB when you have high end DL play.

our roster is playoff quality. it will be a disappointment if we don't make the playoffs... unless Injuries crash down on our season. I would not say though its a do-or-die season. our window of opportunity with this current roster is 1-3 years as far as Super Bowl representative potential... but can be longer if Myles, Baker are resigned and Dorsey continues his good to great draft picks.

I didn’t know where to put this:

We have never exercised a fifth year option on one of our first round picks. That is horrible. We are the only team to have never used it. The picks that we have made that have been eligible for it are all the first round picks since 2011. The players are:

Phil Taylor
Brandon Weeden
Trent Richardson
Barkevious Mingo
Johnny Manziel
Justin Gilbert
Cameron Erving
Danny Shelton
Corey Coleman

We did exercise Damarious Randall's fifth year option, but we didn't draft him.

I'd expect we use it on several of the following players:

David Njoku
Myles Garrett
Denzel Ward
Baker Mayfield

http://pfref.com/tiny/iIp4m

The roster that we have now after whiffing on so many draft picks is legitimately amazing.

It most certainly is not although expectations are high. Our team, for the most part, is young and they, including the coaching staff, need time to gel...

Don't kid yourselves, if we don't make the playoffs it's an EPIC failure plain and simple. You guys are over analyzing things and I can appreciate why. Once bitten twice shy.

Wow. And we only received something substantial for one of those picks (Richardson).

The only way I can see us not making the playoffs is with some sort of major injury. This is why I started to think a real good back-up QB is important and I think Gilbert could be a decent pick-up for us...

Who knows, Mayfield goes down for the season, Gilbert comes in and we win the super bowl... now we can trade Gilbert and have our own real life Nick Foles type scenario.

Say we go 10-6 and just miss the playoffs. Would that be considered an 'EPIC' failure? I don't think so, but admit it would be disappointing...

What if? Geez, the Pats are favorites again, but what if?


The Browns look good on paper.. we all kinda feel that way I suppose. Sports media seem to be saying it everyday as well.

But as the Coach and GM have both said a millions times, you don't win on Paper.

If we win the division, Terrific, but I expect this to be another building year.. Building with the ultimate goal in mind, a Superbowl Win.

No, but I think 10-6 and missing the playoffs would be a hard pill to swallow. I'd almost think 6-10 would be better...

If somehow we are anywhere near the Super Bowl or host a playoff game of any sort, I really truly would be scared for the city of Cleveland.

I'm not as happy as some on here this team can't even beat a team 8-8 or better all last year. I don't see any playoffs for this team in 2019. I'm happy we finally got some wins last year but this team just isn't as good as some think it is. I can't believe some people actually are talking about a superbowl for this team this season i'd be surprised if we even go to the playoffs in 2019. Our RB couldn't even get a 1000 yards rushing when we played the Ravens that was sad and pathetic needed like 40 yards and blew it like cleveland always does. In my opinion we got a long way to go to even be a good team let alone a playoff team.

The first six weeks of the season Chubb never had more than 3 attempts in a single game. Think that may have something to do with him not gaining over 1000 yards? We changed coaches half way through the season. Think that might have had something to do with anything? Baker didn't even work with the ones during training camp. Think that might make difference? We added front 7 strength to our D. Think that might help? We now have one of the best WR's in the game. Think that might help?

We won 5 of our last 8 games. Now I can understand why fans can be cautious considering the past. But to try and ignore the many reasons others see it differently goes beyond logic.

Aside from Pit's explanation, there's the pesky part where he DID get to that 1,000 yard metric.

Unfortunately, he was tackled for a loss after that, moving his total back and we didn't really go back to him after that.... he was only given 9 total carries in that game, period.

He averaged 82.3 yds/game from Week 7 onward.
That would be a 1300 yd season had he been used all season long.... with about 300 yds receiving to go with it.

He wasn't given any more carries in that game because he and the oline were getting destroyed in that game. Do you people even watch football or just post about it?

We also got down 20-7, and the pass game was working.

Yeah falling way behind doesn't cause teams to change over to the passing game. What game were you watching?