DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum This is playoff quality roster however........

They can't beat an 8-8 team or better that's why they were behind. Adding one WR with 77 catches and 6 tds won't save an average team.

I see you really haven't been paying attention. You forgot about Sheldon Richardson and Olivier Vernon on the front seven. I think you're here just to sling mud and really have no intention of talking football.

No it's called reality something you've shown you can't handle or understand but keep trying.

Being a Browns fan for over 50 years I am cautiously optimistic about the coming season. However, I will admit our roster looks good and we should improve over last year as long as our coaches and players mesh well. That is my big concern having a young new staff along with some new players.

Well all we did was add one good WR, haven't you heard?

I'm with you on this one...

Trolls your lost as usual i've been here since the start of this message board.

There's a difference between being registered and being here.

So what about the additions of Richardson and Vernon on defense?

Why do you try to make it sound like OBJ is all we've done? Why is it you think that Mayfield setting the rookie record for TD passes isn't a good sign for this year?

You seem quick to make claims that don't match up with reality.

Sorry about your outlook. Beats talking football. Rookie? Look around some more.

I read all the time post when i feel the need to. I think it's a very average team not a good team by any means. you sure like to jump on posters on this message board a lot don't no why? but you should take your own advise and talk football more and then maybe someone would want a conversation with you until then back to football posts.

77, 1052, 6 TD. In 12 games. You left out that minor detail.

And it isn't "saving" an average team. The Browns were a good team the 2nd half of the and added a top talent WR. That's not savings team, but it is greatly improving a team.

Let's see here.

You're the one who refuses to talk about the upgrades on the front seven. You're the one who brought up that Chubb didn't get more than 1000 yards but refused to address the fact that he never had more than three carries in his first six games as a reason why he didn't end up with more than 1000 yards.

It's easy to see that you have no intention of actually wishing to discuss any of the facts and just want to say things with no substance.

"I'm done buying into the hype and baseless predictions. This team has a lot of work to do, as you pointed out...new coaches and new players working to build the Browns into a winning franchise.Prove it...show me...prove it one the football field and show me on the scoreboard."

Great post Mac I agree.

I might be with you on this one minus the very average team comment.

In my opinion the quarterback alone elevates this team past "very average." I'm sure we have different opinions...

We had one of the better lines in the league last year and didn't lose much. We added a OBJ. We have Chubb and Njoku... but I'm not sure where you think we would be average there.


The defense needs more depth, but I think we have a lot of really good pieces.


I don't see average and certainly not "not a good team by any means." What teams are better and why?

I would say that Baker and Kitchens make Robinson look better than he is. Baker's quick release and competence rolling out along with Kitchens' turn to more play action covered for Robinson a lot. Robinson's guy was swimming around the backfield a lot last year. I'm hopeful about Corbett, but it wasn't even a question that he could take Zeitler's job last year and Z is now gone. Again, hopeful about Corbett but it's far from guaranteed that he's going to be as good, let alone better. Some have said Z was our best run blocking lineman.

But my bigger worry remains Robinson and depth. I remember all too well how the entire offense struggled for what seemed like forever before Joe Thomas was drafted. And how the team totally imploded when Schwartz and Mack were traded. And how many seasons over the last 20 where an injury or two meant an inept backup stepping in and the whole offense faltering. Without an above average LT, you're ceiling is low, period. OL is one of those things that everyone goes to sleep on as soon as it's sorta "fixed", but I really don't know that it's fixed. Robinson was run off by two teams who needed a halfway decent LT for good reason. I hope he's got 16 half-way decent games in a row in him but I admit it worries me. And who's competing with him again? Anyone?

Harrison is our other LT. He's raw, but showed some promise. I thought Robinson did well in pass pro.

Btw..........Mack and Schwartz were not traded. They were permitted to walk by the previous FO.

I'll also say that I believe there's almost no point in arguing about how realistic any of our expectations are. More futile than most years. This year, as I see it, there's way more wild cards in the deck. Most of the major team-specific variables don't implicated better than 50% returns, meaning that they're more likely to go south than north. And most are correlated, not independent. As things start to go south, more will pulled south. The strongest downward pull comes from our greenness. The new coach that hasn't led anything ever, the new coordinators installing partial new systems with a very young team (2nd or 3rd youngest?) in a high pressure, high expectations, prime time spotlight. None of that works in our favor.

But, and this is a big but, we actually have players, and one player in particular in Baker, that could flip it. If we get hot at the start of the season (which I think is highly unlikely) Baker could turn into that player than pulls the rest of the team up, makes everyone else better than they really are. I love the dude and the fact that he cuts so hard against the muck and gloom of our last 20 years. I look forward to nothing more this season than seeing if he's got the better part of 16 in him and what he can do with this team after a full offseason. Let the games begin.

Right, Harrison, forgot about that dude. As I recall though he was kind of a bum? Or just super raw?

Just very raw. The tools are all there. He just needs refinement. That doesn't mean he'll turn out to be a great LT, but without the tools he possesses you have no chance to become a great LT.

I think there are varying opinions on him. My personal opinions are he has some strengths and weaknesses:

Positives:

--Very athletic
--Quick feet
--Agile
--Long limbs
--Gets to second level very well

Concerns:

--Extremely raw
--Needs to bulk up a little
--Needs to get out of his stance quicker.

I think there is hope for the guy.

Somewhat raw, and needed to add strength.

Hopefully a good off-season takes care of the latter.

It's the quarterbacks ability that elevates everyone's play on a average team. I'll take back very average my bad. Right now were a 7-8-1 team that got better. How much better remains to be seen. Don't forget that we added Hunt as well as far as running backs go. Then got OBJ at wide and then added two defensive linemen that helped. Do I think we got better Heck yeah a lot better now i hope this team gets to be the team we think it will be on paper which i think it will. Anything under 10-6 and i'll be very disappointed. In 2020 I want playoffs won't get there this year but will be a very fun year anyhow thanks to those signings. It's about time there starting to build a real team here in Cleveland. I've waited 38 years for this and i'm finally starting to see a team that's becoming a real football team.

This could be one of those years where the wild card has a better record than the AFCN winner. This could also be one of those rare sub 10-6 winner years. Denver won with 8-8 in 2011 I think. Someone else won with 9-7 in the last decade. But 10-6 is pretty much the cut off. As long as big ben is still around, I have to think 10-6 is still the cut off.

I won't be at all surprised if a couple of them (Garrett and Mayfield) never get to their 5th year option but are rewarded with longer term deals in advance of that.

There's one extreme factor I haven't seen mentioned. On paper, yes, this team is loaded. What I see in this team that I haven't seen since to 80's is CONFIDENCE! Don't ever discount that, to me it's stronger than skill level.

Listen to these guys speak man. David Njoku was on a show a couple weeks ago, forget which one, he says they're not gonna lose.

Confidence is definitely high. EXPECT to win.... Doesn't mean you will but it certainly helps.

Another big reason: the natural progression of our young players.

10, I get what you are saying but to me there are two key factors. is our o line keeping baker vertical and his uniform clean and is our running back finding holes to run thru. If those two things are happening I don’t care who is swimming and who is rowing the boat.

having a great left tackle is helpful but we had one for a decade and it got us nothing. what I think is important is how the line performs as a unit. how they do their job together. If next season this line performs like it did the last eight games we can cease worrying about them and just give them their due.

Looking forward to watching him progress this season.

In his defense, it never hurts to hear someone like Joe Thomas say that he's got all the necessary skills. Time to step up.

Good for Haskins

Yeah as really more and more excited about the team here with Baker now it is his team!

I know you're not used to us being on the same side

BUT, it's also very pertinent to the conversation that Chubb didn't get over three carries in any of his first six games. So he was only the primary RB for 10 games.

There's nothing i don't like about Chubb I think he had an excellent season. but I stand by what I said they started to destroy the run everytime we ran the ball I mean we were losing yards almost every time we ran the ball just manhandling the oline and the run to the point we were losing yards. As far as football knowledge i have 38 years of it. I don't need to wright a book to prove it like some people.

I know you're all thinking it but I'll be the one to say it. This is the team that forces the '72 Miami team to leave the champagne in the fridge and get on with their lives. Maybe not this year, but... yeah.

Go ahead and laugh but you heard it here first.