DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Second Year

Baker has got to cut down on the interceptions.

If Ward (without the injuries) and Chubb are the exact same players they were last year we are in a really good spot. Improvement would be gravy.

My expectation is that Callaway will take a pretty big leap forward. He was out of football for an extended time and then found his groove later in the year.

Avery should do well in a defined pass rushing role with some linebacker sprinkled in on clear running downs.

The others you mentioned are up in the air. Some of them won't even make the team, others didn't play much last year so it's hard to tell where they even need to improve.

The exception is at WR and they usually make the biggest jump their third years.



I doubt that Baker's style is going to allow him to cut down on the interceptions and I'm okay with that as long as he keeps his accuracy.

He wants to be a gunslinger and has the skills for it.

That is an odd list.

Just ones opinion I suppose. It's best to make your "best" lists after the season.....maybe mid-season.

I was just looking for a thread to post this list, I guess I chose poorly again. Thx for the input.

I wasn't getting on your case. I appreciate you posting it and it was a good fit on this thread. I just didn't agree w/the author's rankings. Not a big deal. I did not mean my comment to be offensive.

In theory, rookies should make a significant jump in their 2nd year, but that in theory...

I think as fans, especially Browns fans, we need to operate in reality.

We are still going against other NFL teams, who also have their own rookies who are jumping to their 2nd year. End of the day, it's about execution. 1st year, 4th year, 8th year... you gotta execute. Simple as that.

grateful, interesting list. They all have one thing in common. they have a top notch quarterback. You do not have a good o without a really good qb. interesting mix though. several members of the old guard. Brady, brees etc. but even more young guns, ready to take over the show. we could see some really good quarterbacking the next 10-12 years from these guys.

I think you are right in that most guys make a huge jump from year 1 to year 2. However, there are exceptions. Some guys get a big head and don't do the necessary work in the off-season. They rest on their laurels and do the party scene, the media thing, etc.

Additionally, some guys get figured out after other teams get more tape on them. Opponents have a better grasp on their strengths and weaknesses. New England seems to be at the forefront of this and then other teams copy their strategies.

Yeah, I wasn't arguing w/you. Just adding more context to the story.

Just football talk.

I am super curious to see the difference in our second year guys.

Guys like Corbett, Avery, and Harrison have a lot on the line.

Hell they all do.

Chubb, I have no doubts about him. Ward I am hoping he learned from the concussions to protect himself.

Callaway, I am unsure about because of his past. At the same time he has so much potential IMO. I think practicing with Landry and Odell can only help him.

Baker, comes with chip in place. You don't accomplish what he has without hard work. When you are short and have been a walk-on twice to setting a rookie record in your first year. Now he is the face of a team expected to compete at a high level. He will have more weapons and higher expectations. Baker has never been accused of being a slacker. Having a season under his belt and going to camp as the starter with all first team work can only help him in preparation for the season.

Only four months to go. I am as excited for this coming season as I have ever been.

I'm sorry, but I wonder about all this talk about Baker being a hard worker. I see it all the time. I just don't see evidence of it.

I see moxie. I see confidence. I see him thinking he is the best. But, I really haven't seen how he outworks guys.

I saw Freddie had to tell him to take a break and get away from football for awhile.

I saw him working at Proactive in LA.

I saw him organizing throwing sessions with his guys.

I saw him looking bulked up like Brady Quinn walking into Browns HQ for the voluntary workouts. (This actually concerned me a little bit)

How exactly do you see what he thinks?

I think it’s fair to describe Baker as a hard-working individual. He’s a two-time walk-on that elevated his game each season and accomplished more than most thought possible. That kind of consistent improvement and production doesn’t happen because someone is a gamer.

That said, Baker isn’t competing against collegians and rookies anymore. He’s competing against consummate professionals, and I’ve got concerns with his off-season plan when that’s the benchmark.

For starters, Baker is not a perfect quarterback. I don’t expect him to be, either.

But, despite his stellar rookie season, I would hope that he’s cognizant of his shortcomings and methodically addressing them throughout the offseason.

And I haven’t seen evidence of that.

I’m positive that he’s got a rigorous, position-specific regimen. I’m even positive the performance coaches at Proactive Sports Performance are excellent strength specialists. They aren’t private quarterback coaches, though. They might improve his foot speed, but they aren’t going to fix his footwork or teach him to recognize disguised coverages.

He wouldn’t even have to relocate his offseason program. There are plenty of qualified quarterback coaches in Southern California. Whether it’s Tom House and Adam Dedeaux (Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz), Steve Clarkson (Ben Roethlisberger), George Whitfield (Jameis Winston), or Jordan Palmer (Sam Darnold).

Regardless, whether it’s arrogance or confidence, Baker doesn’t believe he needs a private quarterback coach.

If he’s self-aware and equipped with knowledgeable biomechanical resources, then it might work out fine for him (and us), but I’m concerned that it’s a missed opportunity, despite Freddie’s insistence on taking some time away from football.

You started out so well. I'd be curious to know what you think are Baker's shortcomings?

Good post.

I think you brought up a good point about him overcoming the odds in college. That could indicate he is a hard worker.

I thought Baker should have worked w/a QB coach this past offseason. He has some things he needs to clean up w/his footwork. It's why some of his passes are inaccurate.

People talk about his throwing sessions w/his teammates, but I can't find much evidence of that. I saw the quote that Njoku made about them throwing one day, but nothing after that. No pics, no videos like there were last year.

The quote by Freddie is odd. Did he say it because that is what Baker wanted to do or did he believe it? The latter would not be a good look for Freddie in my opinion.

Guys like P. Manning, Tom Brady, etc all worked on their games during the offseason, even after they were established greats.

I am not saying that Baker shouldn't have taken some time off or that he needed to work hard every day. I think it's a good idea to unwind some after the year, but there are 24 hours in a day. A 1 hour workout isn't that much to expect.

I am OK with some picks as well. Difference this year is a D that can put a game away late, get itself off the field more often and more quickly, can generate turnovers, sacks, and even scoring.

Feed Mayfield a bunch. Score TD's. More possessions should overshadow low picks. This should work like a juggernaut if we are mostly healthy. And the next year for for last year's rooks should be delightful. Huey is out; we saw them improve. Year Two ought to be — not can be or should be — OUGHT to be special almost weekly. Dorsey's machine can be formidable IMO, and it ought to be.

IMO it's just all on Baker ... if he stays ahead of other teams' adjustments to him this offseason we'll be good. If he doesn't put in the work and stays the same, we'll underachieve

j/c


I feel like a lot of people misunderstand Baker. And there's a lot of assumptions made that don't seem to make sense.

For me, and someone mentioned this, he was a 2 time walk on, he won the heisman, he became the first pick in the draft... that's all the proof I need to know he's a hard working individual. ...we pretty much have NOTHING to worry about with Baker. He's going to be fine. He should be the least of our concerns.

The kid is a phenomenal leader. Teammates will walk thru walls for him. We haven't had anything like that here in decades. And people want to nitpick about what he is or isn't doing in the offseason? But I get it. He's a super star and anything he does will be magnified.

If people want to worry about him, go right on ahead. And if I'm wrong, I'll take ya'll out for ice cream.



And that's my opinion!

I'm not worried about just him, I'm also worried about our new staff's ability as well. It's a shared responsibility ... and he has a lot of pressure to live up to now.

But, I do agree he's shown the great ability to overcome and thrive.

... and if you do get ice cream, I'll get cookie dough

That's fair. I would have chosen cookie dough as well.

In the last Building the Browns Baker said that he’ll be throwing with the receivers after his wedding.

Not working with a private QB coach is concerning because the best QBs usually work with their owns guys. I will wait to hold judgment until his play actually falls off though.

As long as he's working on what Lindley, Monken, and Kitchens want him to be working on, I think "QB gurus" are overrated.

Can they help? Sure. Plenty of great QBs have done just fine without them, though.

Thanks.

Bro, I am not saying he won't improve. I expect him to improve. I'm just saying that it isn't a given.

I am also saying that working w/a personal qb coach {I don't like the term QB guru] is not "overrated." Instead, it makes a lot of sense. That is why professional golfers have swing coaches. It's why athletes pay trainers. It's why there are shooting coaches and hitting instructors in other sports.

After I quit coaching and scouting, I gave individual lessons for years and years. I still work w/two local kids in their off-seasons. You can record their mechanics, break it down frame by stinking frame and point out what is causing what and how to correct the issues.

That isn't "overrated." It's intelligent.

Again, I am not saying he won't improve. He probably will. I'm just saying that giving yourself yet another edge is the intelligent thing to do.

It's overrated in the sense that it's not a silver bullet.

Tim Tebow working with Tom House didn't magically fix him.

Tom Brady was good before he started working with him.

It can help, but it won't make or break someone.

If the personal coach is saying something different than the actual/team coach, it can be detrimental. (or still help)

I'm sure Kitchens and Baker have plans and he is working them.

Maybe he'll do some work with Jimmy Clausen (!?!?), who he worked with pre-draft and scripted his pro day.

I think Baker is more against the dodging brooms in the ocean "QB guru" stuff than plain working on his mechanics.

How do you know he's not working with someone? It may not be someone who is a popular name, or it could be nobody. I don't think it is fair to assume he doesn't work with anybody. I know he said he doesn't go to QB coaches, but with todays technology hell he could be talking with someone everyday.

To just assume, because it is not publicized, is misleading. It is speculation at best.

I have seen videos of him in the past working with guys on the beach, and even working out with Jarvis and Odell last offseason. Who knows who else is there?

He improved every year at OU. He pressed quite a bit in his first season and some in his 2nd. By the 3rd season you could see was in complete control. The OU coaches and former players say he was one of the hardest workers on the team. I think that says a lot considering the #1 pick in this years draft said he learned a lot about being prepared from Baker.

Of all the guys to say is misleading people on this subject, you choose me. We have a guy saying that working w/a QB coach can be detrimental and you call me out? Really?

I don't mislead. Have a look for yourself and then do a google search and you can find more evidence that I did not "mislead" people.



The crazy thing is that I am not tearing him a new behind over this. I am simply saying that he chose not to take advantage of working on his mechanics and that it is not a given that he is going to make a significant jump this upcoming year. I think he will, but I would have felt better had he worked on his craft rather than the party scene and getting bigger physically.

It's just an opinion and I don't think you should question my character. I did NOT mislead anyone.

It's just hard to take anything you say about him as being objective after your "he's a bully and I would have fought him" take. *shrug*

And do you really think that messing with a guys mechanics throwing things off for him is outside the realm of possibilities? That's kind of what the "can" was in the sentence for. I'm guessing since Hue "promoted" Tom House, Baker probably won't go that direction. Who else do you trust?

You don't intend to mislead people, but constantly presenting your opinion as the only possible/right way...is kind of misleading at times.

I'm not saying that you don't have a point. You do. But it's not the only way to look at it. I like to explore those other angles. Your effectively saying that it's pointless to do so can be rather frustrating. Once you settle on an opinion anyone else who doesn't 100% agree with you is wrong no matter what. I don't think you intend things that way, but it is how you come across at times.

You could be onto something. But, there's also a fair bit of conjecture. Why are you the only one who is allowed to do so?

It's not a big deal, and I appreciate your insight. You just come off a little forcefully at times.

I don't intend this as an attack. Intervention sounds kind of silly. Just more of a heart to heart I guess.

Do we know that he hasn't done anything ? Just because it has not been advertised, does not mean it hasn't happened.