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I actually think that outside of 12 to 16 positions (barring injury) we have no idea for sure who's going to get to the 53.. We are a ways away from that.

Baker
Garrett
Bitonio
Tretter
Njoko
Harrison
Chubb
Ward
Landry
OBJ

and a few other. But beyond that, Competition is the watch word.

I like how far we have come since the oh-fer debacle. Scoring is fun. Agonizing wins are fun.

Refs are not fun when you lose. But talent is much better, and some of the folks we moved improved us a bit. Dorsey is still in the works, so maybe a surprise or two is in the offing yet.
If this is all we have, it is enough to go to war. Cannot wait.

Man, I disagree 100%.

I think that most of this roster is set. Just in starters we have:

Baker
Chubb
OBJ
Landry
Callaway
Njoku
Tretter
Bitonio
Corbett


On Defense:

Myles
Vernon
Richardson
Ogunjobi
Kirksey
Schobert
Randall
Ward
Greedy
Carrie

That's 19 just among starters, grading rather hard, and counting a 3rd WR and a slot corner.

Looking at the roster, there are probably only 10-15 spots really open for a player to win. Sure there's always competition, and I suppose an UDFA could unseat a veteran .... but this team is now a team that is expecting to compete for a championship. We aren't going to load up on rookies and UDFA. I could actually see a case for only 3 or 4 drafted rookies out of 8 making the final roster.

Just go through and look at the roster. I bet anyone can pick out the 40 or so guys who are almost certain to make the final 53.

What is most important is that the main focus of all talent has been found.

Baker Mayfield.

Additionally....

Avery
Higgins
Hunt
Robinson
T. Mitchell
Kush
Hubbard

I agree. I really don't see any surprise cuts and think the 53 is somewhat predictable, give or take a few names.

Everyone likes talent,

You are a firm believer that talent wins.

I am a firm believer that talent can't win by itself without coaching, at least,... well not at the NFl level.

I think the Browns have more talent, in some respects for sure, ( I don't as low of an opinion of the talent on the teams that went 1-15, 0-16, as the going consensous probably).
But they are getting more talented, and you can't ignore the quarterback in that, half the plays start with the quarterback.

Right now I hold the view, Talent can't buy you wins, can't buy you meaningful games in December or January, can't get you playoff berths or wins on it's own.

I think it's a total package, including coaching, ( and when I say coaching maybe I'm including more in the definition than some, gameplanning, outplaying, out schemeing, player development, technique teaching, putting people in the right places, leadership, finding weaknesses in other teams and exploiting them, figuring out how to get an advantage in anything and work that in to a big win for your team, and much more,

and winning takes talent, no one can do it without talent, but talent alone won't make for wins, and wins don't ever come easy in a league like the NFL,

Ask this Browns legend, or that Browns legend, or that Browns legend.
I think everything matters, the total package.

As cliche as it sounds, it's a Quarterback driven league. Once you secure talent at that position then all of the other elements can begin to come together. We've been fortunate to witness a phenomenal infusion of talent throughout the roster. Now Mayfield has the tools allowing him to play at an extremely high level. That spills over on to the defense and you begin to see a belief within the team that they are able to compete with any team in the league.

Team building and player development combined with talent and execution get the Browns in the conversation. Now serious commitment to hard work and a team culture that can withstand adversity will truly make the team dangerous week-to-week.

Baker is a top ten QB going into the 2019 season.

If you include Kareem Hunt, no one has better running backs than us right now.

Our wide receivers are among the best in the league. Our top four of OBJ, Landry, Higgins, and Callaway are very good. The other teams with great talent at that position are the Rams and Vikings.

David Njoku is pretty good but the other tight ends we have are iffy. We are about average at that position.

The offensive line is average. Bitonio and Tretter are top five at their position but all the other guys are question marks or average.

Myles Garrett, Genard Avery, and Olivier Vernon is among the best edge groups in the league. There are several teams that come close (the Cowboys, Eagles, Saints, Broncos, and Bears) but I would take our group because of Myles Garrett's upside.

The interior of our line could be better. As is I would say it is league average. Ogunjobi can be great because he makes huge splash plays but is inconsistent. Richardson is above average. The other guys are just guys at this point. Getting McCoy would be a huge upgrade.

Our linebackers are about average. Schobert is great in coverage and Kirksey is about league average. There is no real depth at this position group. We have rookies and special teamers.

Our corners are a little above average but not much better than that. Greedy Williams is a rookie so we don't know who he is, if he hits 80% of his peak then we are set at corner for four more years. Mitchell performed well when healthy but that went against the rest of his career. Carrie is an average NFL corner.

At safety Randall is probably top ten at his position. His versatility is huge. At other safety position we have a bunch of question marks. Burnett barely played last year and the other box safeties aren't good or are rookies. I'd expect that we see a bunch of different guys try out at this spot throughout the season. Ideally Redwine would grab the spot.

Having no below average spots is huge. Our team is a legit top ten in talent in the league and probably top eight.

We went hard after coverage guys in this draft. So many of the guys we drafted that was their noted key strength. Pretty obvious that coverage and speed must have been primary attributes Dorsey and co we’re looking for. It sounds like maybe at the expense of actual tackling and box stuffing ability, which concerns me. I really think a truly stout interior DLineman could make a big difference in that regard.

I was thinking about putting up a thread but waiting until camp or there abouts asking to think like our opponent. Where would you attack us on O & D? What kind of an offense thrives against the current players? To me right now, the gut is soft. Gash at the middle, draw in the backers & safety’s and create space over the top? Lots of you guys are better at this than I am.

QBR is typically the best stat based evaluation of qbs. Baker was 23rd. http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

I don't think he is that low, but I don't see him as a top 10 qb right now. He may become that guy, but not yet.

I will say that the rest of our offense is loaded, so that should help Baker climb up the list.

It’s hard to judge Baker’s overall season totals because there was an obvious switch that was flipped after Hue and Haley were fired. If he maintains the post firing level of play then he is a clear top ten player.

Games 3-8: 78.9 rating 8 TD 6 INT
Games 9-16: 106.2 rating 19 TD 8 INT

Baker Mayfield Stats, Splits | ESPN
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/3052587/baker-mayfield

That is a good point. I'm still not sure that he is a "clear" top ten player though.

Now, if you are talking about long term qbs, I would agree. But, next year only [which is kinda of what we're talking about here] well, I am hesitant.

Then again, I just hate Baker. So, there is that. I have no sound football reasoning.

We're stacked (when was the last time any of us could even imagine that) and that's without a clue as to who shines in camp or how well the rooks do. And Dorsey ain't done. This year we'll be scary. Next year we'll be downright terrifying.

So your saying there is little to no chance that a starter might be replaced?

Corbett for instance still needs to prove it. Greedy will get his shot, but still has a lot to prove. And I think Richardson has a lot to prove..

So now go back to my list.. I stated that I felt as if 12 to 16 spots are safe bets... now look at three that I brought up from your list,,, we are at 16. My point is, we are basically saying the same thing.

Unless he completely regresses from the progress he made last year, (which is unlikely( Corbett will make this team. Even if someone else manages to beat him out, he makes the team. I see no way that Dorsey dumps the 33rd pick in the 2018 draft a year later.

Richardson makes the team. To cut him in the 1st year of the deal would be horribly expensive.

You said that we have no idea who will make the 53. I say that we have a great idea on most of those roster spots. Maybe a starter is bumped to backup, though I doubt it out of the players I listed ...... but these players, at a start, will make the final roster.

Do I need to watch Trubisky? 3rd seems rather high.

I don't see where anyone was signed or drafted that can really compete for the opening that was created at G when Zeitler was traded except for Corbett.

Not only is it a given he makes the 53 man roster but to me it's a given he's penciled in as the starter to replace Zeitler. When you have Bitonio and Zeitler on your team, a rookie isn't going to be your starting G. But Dorsey didn't draft Corbett in round 2 without a plan in mind. We are seeing that plan come to fruition.

I'm thinking we are going to have to accept the fact that we agree and disagree...LOL

It's a good team, surely a playoff caliber roster. There's a plethora of talent around Baker, on the D-line, and in the defensive backfield. That said, other than a few teams that are perpetually at the top (and a few perpetually at the bottom), there's a lot of volatility in this league.

Cliché as it might be, so much in this league depends on your head coach and quarterback. Is Freddie the guy we all hope he can be? Will it take him time to grow into the role?

Will Baker make a big jump from year 1 to year 2, as would generally be expected from a dropback passer? (And will he stay healthy?)

I do think Dorsey is putting his stamp on what can be a very strong football team. I've always had a rule of thumb though when judging a "real" football team, they have to meet at least one of two criteria:

A) back to back winning seasons

or

B) make it to the divisional round of the playoffs. This means winning in the wild card round of the playoffs, or better yet, getting a first round bye

A can't happen this year but B sure can. If the Browns are playing January 11th/12th then we can say they arrived. That's making it to the final 8 in a 32 team league.. I don't think that's too much to ask.

My roster guess (which will be wrong as I still expect 2-3 players not on the roster to make final 53...most likely I see TE, DT or S)

QB (2)
Baker
Stanton

RB (4)
Chubb
Duke
Hilliard
Charles
(Hunt I don't think counts against 53)

WR (6)
Beckham
Landry
Higgins
Callaway
Willies
Sheehy-Guiseppi

TE (3)
Njoku
Harris
Devalve

OL (10)
Robinson
Bitonio
Tretter
Corbett
Hubbard
Lamm
Kush
Witzmann
Harrison
Forbes

DE (5)
Garrett
Smith
Vernon
Thomas
Ray

DT (5)
Richardson
Ogunjobe
Coley
Lawrence
Price

LB (6)
Avery
Kirksey
Schobert
Taylor
Wilson
Takitaki

DB (9)
Ward
Williams
Randall
Burnett
Redwine
Carrie
Murray
Mitchell
Gaines

ST (3)
Colquitt
Hughlett
Seibert

PS (10)
Trevon Tate (C)
Donnie Lewis (CB)
Jarrell Owens (DE)
Dedrick Young (LB)
Garrett Gilbert (QB)
Darrin Hall (RB)
Brian Fineanganofo (T)
Damion Ratley (WR)
JT Hassell (S)
Stephen Carlson (TE)

I think its way too early to predict a final 53. To expect Dorsey to remain stagnant with any roster changes til Aug/Sept is not likely.

I'm just happy we got talent, and that we have our QB of the future.

The Scottish Hammer ! Now that's a Rugby tough Punter... Broke 3 Wilson Footballs kicking them. Nice !

First look at the 2019 Browns. Part 1: The offensive line

https://dawgpounddepot.com/2019/05/05/first-look-at-the-2019-browns-part-1-the-offensive-line/

After a masterful offseason of roster building by the Cleveland Browns front office, the test for the new coaching staff started on May 3rd with the rookie minicamp in Berea Ohio. Find those last few players to help take this team to the next level in 2019. Let’s take a look now on the offensive side of the ball, and the battle that will take place on making the 53.


Starting in the trenches with the offensive line and using the numbers from last year, as to how the makeup should look. Three tackles, four guards and one center for a total of 8 on the final roster.

1. #75 Left Guard Joel Bitonio, should be a secure lock

2. #64 Center JC Tretter, already has chemistry with Mayfield and coming one of his best years in the NFL I believe Tretter will be a lock as well.

3. #63 Right Guard Austin Corbett, GM John Dorsey has so much faith in the second year of Corbett’s career he felt comfortable trading Kevin Zeitler. He’ll be a lock as well.

With the interior of the line secured it will be down to the two starting tackles and three backups.

4. #79 Tackle Drew Forbes, After the selection of Forbes you could tell the Browns front office, was very happy with this pick. Playing in a tackle in college but projected to the NFL as a guard it’s hard to tell right now what position he’ll hold on the team. I would believe the odd’s favor the Browns retaining him for the 2019 season.

5. #78 Left Tackle Greg Robinson, signed a one year team friendly deal for the 2019 season. Robinson started the season slowly but after winning the job finished strong earning a final PFF grade of average. With a contract that would give the Browns an additional 6.5 million in cap plus real trade value, it could make him vulnerable.

6. #74 Right Tackle Chris Hubbard, Taking the most snaps in his NFL career finished the year strong according to PFF earning an above average grade. Hubbard was strong all year with pass blocking but had a few below average games with the run. Another critical metric on Hubbard’s side was he only commented three penalties all year. Two against the high powered Ravens defense.
The contract that Hubbard signed with the Browns does not give them a good out for the 2019 season. Only releasing him would cost 2 million in cap loss and trading would gain 4.1 million but would include 3.2 million in dead money.

7. #69 Left Tackle Desmond Harrison, As a UDFA Harrison quickly took favor with the former Browns coaching staff. Working hard in training camp he was able to win the starting job for week one. After that, it was a difficult time for the rookie earning a PFF grade of average overall and below average with run blocking.
Harrison was able to receive an above average grade with pass blocking but in eleven games had eight penalties. The current contract would allow the Browns to gain only $563,332 in cap space if they chose to move on.

8. #72 Left Guard Eric Kush, Selected in the 6th round of the 2013 NFL Draft by GM John Dorsey when he was with the Kansas City Chiefs. With 5 years in the NFL Kush may be the safety net Dorsey was looking for this year. After spending the 2017 season with the Bears, Kush earned an average grade overall from PFF. Kush was, however, able to receive an above average grade for pass blocking.
Only committing two pentiles for the 2018 season Kush gives the Browns a dependable veteran. Dorsey signed Kush to a two-year deal in March for only 3.75 million and if the Browns chose to release him would only gain $825,000 in cap space.

9. #68 Center Kyle Kalis, Kalis has two years in the NFL now and was signed to the Browns practice squad early in 2018. Kalis was then elevated to the Browns 53-man roster in December. During that time he played in three games helping with special team field goals earning an average grade from PFF.
Contractually the cost for the Browns is the league minimum and would play no factor in his release. Kalis is a versatile player able to move from center to guard and has a working relationship with the team already. The longer he remains on the roster, the better odd’s he’ll have to make the 53 again.

Looking at the current roster, the odd’s are favorable to these top nine staring off the season. The remaining players Willie Wright, Bryan Witzmann, Brad Seaton, Brian Fineanganofo and Trevon Tate will most likely be working to earn a spot on the practice squad.

Coach Freddie Kitchens was, however, quick to praise the young group of rookies during the second day of camp.

Overall it looks like the early battle will be at left tackle with the Browns able to gain 6.5 million in cap space should they have the ability to move on from Robinson. Then a backup tackle and guard/center fulling out the roster.

Responding to the article and not really to you Grateful,

I don't get why people are in such a hurry to get rid of Robinson. He was downright dominant in the running game at times. Plus, Baker is good at play action. Chubb and Hunt are dynamic runners. Focusing our offense there would seem to be synergistic. Also if we have more leads, being able to run when they know that's what we want to do would be nice.

Baker Mayfield is College Football's Play-Action Wizard Link

PFF: Baker Mayfield led the nation in play action passer rating Link

Hopefully, Robinson lives up to his potential and earns another contract with us.

Robinson’s track record is horrible. He has several seasons of not just below average play but worst linemen in the league play. At this point the several seasons of terrible play are more reliable evidence than half a season of averagish play.

We have as much or more talent than anyone in the league .... i believe we have more .... that’s not cocky, pre-mature or being overly optimistic ... its what i believe and if u take a look at our roster vs anyone in the league ... we have as much or more than anyone ...

Our upgrades of Vernon and Richardson put us right there with most if not all ... then u add OBJ into the mix ... fuggut about it ... then Greedy and a few more draft picks ...

Were LOADED ya’all ... nitpick away if u must ..... not u bone .... but were LOADED and thats simply a FACT and has zero to do with feelings .... go ahead ya’all .... go pull up NE’s or KC’s roster and compare it to ours .... after u do ... its OK to be GIDDY ... we should be because this is DIFFERENT!!!

Thus the one year show me contract.

Although Joe T's endorsement isn't the final word on the question of Robinson's future it does lend some credibility to the idea that he could succeed at the position.
I would have liked the linked article to be more specific on how the coaches intend to develop Robinson but Campen has one of the best reputations in the league so we'll have to rely on that.

I think the team has taken the right approach on Robinson.

I thought Robinson played very well last year. I was surprised. He's always had the talent. Perhaps he got the proverbial wake-up call? Also, the one year contract thing is important.

It's all up to him now. We gave him a 2nd chance, actually 3rd, and he now has the opportunity to cash in on it. Work and play hard GR and it will pay off.

I'm wary of Robinson as well .. he should be highly motivated again this year, but it's a big position

I think the thing people need to consider is this....

Robinson, based on his play last season, is by far and away the best LT on the roster. That's why he received his one year extension. Now it's possible Harrison could take over the LT spot depending on his progress but that is a huge unknown. Currently Robinson is ranked 21st in LT pay for the 2019 season. So we have a LT that was ranked as average in 2018 for below average pay headed into the 2019 season.

Until they see someone who can play the LT position better, Robinson will stay and at a good price.