DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Concerns you still have

With the offseason here and nearly 3 months til training camp the hype train is in full motion. I know we try to temper expectations and its only natural as a Browns fan. That being said with free agency and the draft over what are still some concerns you have with the team moving forward that could potentially derail the season?

1. Stopping the run
We've added a decent amount of talent this offseason. We got a playmaker in OBJ, brought in Richardson and Vernon to shore up the D-line and pass rush, drafted several young prospects in the secondary and in the LB corps who can be potential starters this year. That being said most of the talent we acquired are considered "pass rushers" and not necessarily "run stoppers". Last season the Browns gave up on average 4.7 yards per carry to opposing teams and 20 TD's including 296 yards to Baltimore at the end of the season (and now that they're fully in on Lamar Jackson that's how the offense is going to look moving forward, and we see them twice a year). I know the NFL is considered a passing league and I think we've done a great job revamping that area but if a team comes in here with a good game plan involving the run we may have a hard time stopping it.

2. Team Chemistry
WE added a lot of talent, not question about that. The question now becomes "will that talent be able to co-exist". This seems to be what the media focuses on the most when it comes to Cleveland's faults, that we're a ticking time bomb that the moment we hit a slide or fail to live up to expectations will implode. There's no denying we have taken on some players that come with "baggage". OBJ is well documented from his time in the Big Apple but Vernon, Richardson, Greedy and Mack all supposedly carry a bit of ego as well. Add in the personalities of Baker, Jarvis and Randall among others and you're sitting on a potential powder keg. Personally I think we'll be fine because Baker seems the type of leader that can keep his teammates in check and keep their focus on the bigger prize, same with OBJ and Jarvis. Its not my biggest concern but that's not to say it doesn't have the potential to become one.

3. Freddie Kitchens
Don't get me wrong, I love me some Kitchens. He seems beloved by his players, respected among his colleagues and a man that just has an overall love and understanding of the game. We saw what he was able to do with the offense when he took the reigns last season. The reason he is on here is essentially he remains the biggest unknown. We've yet to see the kind of head coach he can be when it comes to gameplanning, keeping players in check, handling adversity, etc. As with the reason above he has a lot of talent and personality that he'll need to control. I believe he's the right man to do it, I've just been wrong before.

4. The o-line
Lets take a realistic approach to the offensive line. According to the NFL stats and rankings our o-line last year ranked 14th, just below the Jets and ahead of the Vikings. PFF also had us ranked 2nd so there is quite a bit of discrepency but I think we can concur our o-line was above average/good. Since then we traded our Pro Bowl RG. Again breaking it down: we have Robinson at LT on a one year prove it deal. He had a decent 2nd half last season and ranked as the 63rd best tackle by PFF but is it a sign of things to come or a mirage from a player that was out of the league we picked up off the scrap heap. The LG is the most solid out of the group, Bitonio is going to be a perennial pro-bowler for years to come and is one of the best in the league coming in as the PFF #5 guard last year. At Center Tretter had his best season last year ranking 8th best center by PFF. This year however he will only have one pro-bowler playing beside him. How will that affect his production? At RG we replaced the #6 rated guard in the league with a high 2nd round draft pick from last season. Corbett is an unknown having played very little last season. Dorsey though gave him a huge vote of confidence when he decided to make the trade with the thought Corbett could step right in and fill the void left by the trade of Zeitler. We shall see. and then at RT we signed Chris Hubbard at RT who did a decent job, ranking the 50th best tackle from PFF last year. He played better than he did in Pittsburgh, can he maintain that once again. I like the depth we have but the is all going to come down to Corbett being able to hold down the RG spot and Robinson maintaining his play from the 2nd half of last year.

5. Special Teams
I think we can all agree our special teams was a mess last year; missed FG's and PAT's, missed tackling which led to big returns for our opponents. The coaching staff has changed and we drafted Seibert in the 5th round to compete with Joseph. Again we won't know until we see the product on the field but its something that'll be in the back of the mind of all Brown's fans


Thoughts?

My major concerns:

The LBs.

Stopping the run.

Covering the TE.

Agree with all the above - would also add Safety play and depth.

- what will i wear to the Paradise Island Super Bowl kegger ...

I think #1 is a legit worry, but that's more of a smaller, day-to-day type worry. I think some of our additions will help in that regard. Baltimore's offense will be tough just because it's so different from the norm right now. I think building our defensive line is the right response, though.

#2 is always a worry. Football players have egos, and good football players have bigger egos. I wouldn't have it any other way. We went out to get talent, and we got it along with the egos that go with it. I think it might take a little time and a couple bumps for each ego in the roster to find their spot/niche, but I think the leadership is up to the task. Plus, the egos that we have are the right egos. OBJ... yeah, he's can be a bit much, but he's an intense guy that teammates (supposedly) love and comes in and works his butt off. If a guy like him is running free down the field and isn't getting the ball.... I'll just say that I get it.

#3... yeah. This is one of my big worries, but not the biggest. I like Freddie, but nothing other than seeing him be a good coach for the Cleveland Browns will stop my worrying about this HC hire. I'm a worrier... that's just how I am.

#4. This is another worry of mine. I hope Corbett can step in, but I worry about taking the best guard in football out from in front of Baker. It's not that I don't trust Dorsey... I do... I just worry.

I think special teams will sort itself out. We added personnel which should help with covering kicks and punts, but more than that, we just had a complete cluster* at the kicker position. That's a fluke thing, and I don't see us having to deal with that 2 seasons in a row. It will be a new fluke thing :-p



My big worry is Baker. For me, he has to turn in another positive season in order to convince me that he is, in fact, THE guy. I love Baker. This isn't meant as a dig on him at all. It's just that you have to show what he showed for longer than almost a full season to prove that you can be a true franchise QB in this league.

1.Stopping the run.

I think adding Richardson will be a big improvement in stopping the run. While it isn't his strongest suit he certainly does a pretty good job in that department. I don't think we'll be a top run stopping defense but I do believe with a year of development from our younger players and the addition of Richardson we'll certainly see an improvement.

2 Team Chemistry

I think that any concerns about this have been media driven. Winning solves everything and unless we just fall flat on our faces I don't see this as an issue. Sure there are some strong personalities and some egos but I think Freddie will be sure to make the players leave that at the door. OBJ will certainly get his opportunities and every good player will follow their QB if they see him as a leader. Baker is one reason I don't see this as an issue.

3. Freddie Kitchens

This is probably the biggest unknown. We've seen great OC's and DC's make the leap from coordinator to HC and simply not adjust well. Much like you I think Freddie is the perfect candidate to succeed in that elevation but the jury is still out. We can project the best possible scenario but nothing will prove it until we see the evidence of it.

4. The OL

This is most likely my least worry by far. When Corbett was drafted last year there was a clear plan in place. That plan is now coming to fruition. We had two studs at the G positions last year and no rookie was going to come in here and unseat either Zeitler or Botonio. It wasn't going to happen. But all good teams have the ability to draft and develop players. A plan to use younger, less expensive players to gradually replace more experienced and expensive FA players on the roster. It allows those savings to be used to sign people at more rare and expensive positions on your roster.

Once Freddie took over, we used the run game and the quicker passes to loosen up the opposing D's. That creates a situation where our opponents must maintain outside containment. That's one less blitzer. Baker has the ability to extend plays and avoid pressure. You live by the blitz and you die by the blitz. When your opposition can gash you with the short pass it will loosen up your D. When Baker gets rid on the ball quickly, it forces our opponents to drop more people into coverage and loosens up the pressure on the OL.

Your play selection and the way you execute your offense can be an OL's best friend. And that's exactly what a coach like Freddie combined with a QB like Baker bring to the table.

just limiting myself to the concerns that you raised. In order of severity:

1. Stopping the run. I've said it many times we haven't done enough. I think the team needs another above average interior player, probably a veteran signee at this point.

5. Special teams. Where to begin? Coverage, return and FG and PA all need improvement. Oddly I get the feeling we would be OK with 2 point conversions but that seems like an extension of offense.

4. The o-line. Mostly I"m concerned with Corbett's adjustment. I think he can do it based on his college performance. I do worry that RT won't be of particular help to him with Corbett's first stint as a starter. Hopefully, Tretter can help him from play to play. I think Robinson has all the skills needed to succeed. I think Campen will help get the best from him. Not, no worries, but hopeful.

2. Team chemistry. I'm no more worried by this than I was last season. We should have less roster upheaval than we did last year and that was a year of significant improvement. Confidence and on-field experience will help the 2019 Browns. The "big name" acquisitions" share one thing in common. They haven't come close to winning. I can't imagine that any of the players added this year and specifically OBJ are more interested in individual success than pursuit of a championship. All the greatest of the greats in team sports desire to be champions not simply stars. I think Manning or
Breese or Rogers would trade a little of their individual luster for another SB win. I think our players would too.

3. Freddie Kitchens. I've heard Freddie say this several time, "football is a people business". I have little concern for his grasp of the fine details of coaching at this level. I think he has assembled a great staff and I think he intends to take their input and use their strengths. I don't think he'll allow ego to stop him from getting help where he needs help. I expect that he will grow into a coach that can lead this team deep into the playoffs.

I don't know what concerns I have or if I will post them here. I just want to say great post. Thank you for breaking things down!

None of the above are concerns for me. I'm not worried about stopping the run. The D is going to be punishing. I'm not the least concerned about the O-line. They will protect Baker and he will get rid of the ball quickly or buy time to find the open man, and our run game will be one of the best in the league. Special Teams can only get better. Team chemistry is a non-issue, IMO. And Freddie Kitchens is highly qualified, smart, prepared, a straight shooter, and the right man for the job, ergo no concern at all.

My only concern at this point is if I'll ever be able to score/afford a ticket again.

Expectations.

Not just that we went 7-8-1 and people think we'll moderately improve, but after the OBJ trade, there are legitimate media sources predicting we win the north and maybe go deep in the playoffs.

Maybe it's the same thing, but since we "won the offseason", according to many in the media, that isn't a label I want. The team that normally "wins the offseason" falls flat on it's face. Yes, I'm looking at you Washington Redskins.

It feels like we went 0-16, 7-8-1 and now are expected to win the division. If we don't, it's a failure and the OBJ trade was dumb.

Maybe I'm wrong, which is usually the case.

It's a new year, a new coach, a new team.


Everything concerns me.

I feel good about things and know you will never have a perfect team or fix everything in a few years. And even when you do, other areas start to lapse.

For years I wanted us to spend more towards the cap. Now that we are and how we have had plenty of cap space in the past, that concerns me. John had KC in a bit of trouble cap wise.

Hopefully he isn't over that. Depo is the strategy officer. Maybe cap falls under him. John has done a GREAT job to this point, but I don't think numbers is his gig, and managing the cap is about numbers.

We are getting to the point we have players we MUST keep, and it isn't going to be cheap. I hope we have a firm grasp on that.

No doubt we will lose some decent players we would like to keep, but we have to keep some foundation players in to a second contract if we want to maintain. Dorsey and the scouts need to bring in new blood to step in for the players we do lose, and the numbers guys must balance things so we don't lose the players we CAN'T lose....and we have some can't lose players.

LMAO!!!!

Just be sure it isn't a thong speedo. The crowd will thin out quickly.

1) Don't be the Browns.

This is really all that's stopped us from winning over the years (except the 2 purposeful tank seasons).

Last year we lost to the Steelers due to bad ref calls, the Saints due to 4 missed kicks, the Bucs due to a kickoff fumble (after a bunch of other wacky mishaps), another to kicks, then a bunch of in fighting, etc.

The problem hasn't really been any one thing, the Browns have just found ways to lose despite talent, coaching etc.

Just need no flukes or Ref interference for once and that alone should get us to a winning record.

I have similar thoughts to cfrs. I might add some things later, but for now, I just want to let your post stand.

Superior effort, man. Logical, rational, fair. Great football takes w/out all the BS that has overtaken this board. I'm very impressed.

Hmmmmm......I was thinking about this as I was typing. I will add my thoughts soon because it's important to keep good threads active. And dawg, this is a good thread!

GC. Nice topic, let's see, some might not see as truth the point I'll try to make, but I see it that way.

Not yet discussed, Since the return, and even before to some extent, it seems like the Browns have done the same thing every year, (formula wise at least), to differing levels, and to what extent, i.e. how far they go, but the same formula, almost every time, and I think some of the other 31 teams follow a different formula, (formulas), and the Browns have 2 winning seasons, 3 wins vs Pittsburgh, and everybody knows the track record.

My concern, one of em, is it seems to me they still followed the same formula, (even if it's going to finaly work this time, thumbs up! Yay! ) , and everybody probably already knows the formula already, can get specific later.

That's my concern,

1) Injuries

2) Reading the hype....

I'm not particularly concerned with stopping the run. While we've kitted out the defense with some great pass defenders, we've also kitted out our offense with the talent to score early and often.

If you can score early and often, you force your opponent to become one dimensional, the same dimension we appear on paper to be stacked at.

Lmao. I'm wearing a Bikini and I don't care what anyone thinks. Lol.

I am concerned about the Browns believing too much of the hype. All the Super Bowl Predictions...the media fluff. We have possibly the most talented offense in the NFL. But that is only potential. We have to do the work to actually BE the best Offense in the NFL. And if people keep blowing sunshine up where the Sun don't shine....well then there is a much greater possibility to not do that work.

They need to stay hungry and in our case, based on the types of egos on the team...they need to keep feeling disrespected. They need to pump Colin Cowherd into the locker room quite a bit. LOL I am not sure I see that 'HUNGRY' team yet...But I do think it is coming.

We have no dress code ... everyone can be what they be.

j/c:

In no particular order:

1. Freddie Kitchens
I don't think he is a bad coach he is simply an unknown and it is yet to be seen how he handles the responsibility of a HC.

2. Denzel Ward and his concussions/injuries
Two concussions in one season is a big deal. He is very small and lightly framed comparatively. Another concussion or serious injury could call a lot of things into question....like his career and long-term health.

3. Zeitler leaving and Corbett taking over
Another unknown scenario re: Corbett but Zeitler was one of the best interior pass blockers in the NFL. Team defenses are focusing on interior pass rushing and this is something to monitor moving forward. Again, I don't think Corbett is bad, I just don't know what we have. We know what we had in Zeitler.

4. Odell Beckham's Past Antics
The past couple of years between Odell and Manning were concerning to see. What if things bounce badly for the Browns early in the season and they start slow....how will Odell react? When things are going swimmingly, Odell seems to be sunshine and rainbows, but when times are tough, it's been documented how he reacts. If he reacts poorly will it have a trickle down affect?

5. Sophomore Slump for Mayfield?
Mayfield had a great season last year. He's skyrocketed in popularity in the NFL. Will that popularity coupled with a mindset that he has made it in the NFL equate to a lack of work ethic or productivity? I don't know. I don't think Mayfield comes across as the guy to slow down in terms of work ethic but seeing if he can continue the upward trajectory will be important. Or when he has slumps, and all players do, how will he react?

Exactly!

Fair and reasonable concerns...

Mayfield has never experienced a slump.. A bad game, sure, but a total slump,, no...

Kitchens is the great unknown. If we base it on his time as the OC, we'll love him being the HC.

Beckham has Landry around him now and that might be a positive.. I think it will

Ward and Concussions are a fear of mine.. I can't get around it.

I can't believe, based on history, that Dorsey would let a guy like Zietler go and not feel confident in Corbet.. But keep in mind, they added a few bodies,,, so we'll see.

It is difficult to maintain a wait and see attitude with this team. We've all waited so long for this much talent, that it is difficult to remember 2008. Coming off a 10 - 6 record and just missing the playoffs in 2007, we were all so sure that the Browns had arrived. There was talk of Playoffs.. Championships .. Super Bowls.

Nope. Didn't happen.

That was 11 years ago. In the preseason, the fans thought WOW .. Finally !!! We had a QB ( Derek Anderson ) who had finally shown something, Wide Receivers who were doing their their jobs ( Edwards/Stallworth ), a solid Offensive Line ( Thomas, Steinbach, Fraley, Hadnot, Tucker ), a prolific RB ( Jamal Lewis ), 2 good Tight Ends ( Winslow, Heiden ), solid linebackers ( McGinest, Davis, Wimb1ey ), solid CBs ( Wright, McDonald ),good safeties ( Pool, Jones ). We all saw a bright Future. Final Record ?? 4 W - 12 L

Yes.. I see potential with the 2019 Browns, just as I saw potential with the 2008 Browns. Excuse me if I'm not ordering my Super Bowl tickets, or celebrating an AFC North Championship and Playoff berth .. IN MAY. Let's let the season play out and see what happens. Once the season is over, we will see where we are.

I certainly won't try and debate your points. All browns fans have been snake bit for a very long time. But I will say that it's certainly nice to have concrete talent and a roster to get excited about. It's been a long time since I've been able to say that so I'm just going to enjoy the moment.

Once again, nice job w/your opening post. I have a few concerns. They are not actual negatives, but they are mildly concerning due to the fact that there are some things unknown.

Coaching: This staff could be great. They could be okay. They could be poor. I don't know. Thus, that unknown concerns me. Freddie went from never even being a coordinator to HC in less than a year. I don't think he was a HC at any level, but I may be wrong about that. Wilks was only a DC for one year and his defense wasn't that great in that short stint. Our OC was fired due to a change at HC. But, didn't he lose his play calling responsibilities at one point? Maybe not, but I thought I read that. I don't know.........there are some questions w/this group and that is mildly concerning. It is NOT a prediction that they will be bad. Just a concern.

OL: Losing Zeitler could prove to be a major loss. I don't put as much stock into PFF grades as some, but he was rated very high for legitimate reasons. Corbett is another unknown. I think Hubbard played better than he got credit for, but we don't know what we're going to get at LT. Once again, there is some uncertainity w/this group. That's concerning.

Run Defense: I agree w/you here. Our DTs are not real run stoppers and this was an issue last year. Not sure how great our two edge guys against the run, either. Losing Peppers might hurt a bit. I don't think Greedy is a good tackler on the perimeter and while Ward can tackle, I'm not sure how much I want to see him do it. We can be vulnerable to big plays against the run.

Quarterback: I think we have enough offensive talent to be productive even if we lost Baker due to injury if we just had an adequate backup. I don't have faith in either of our backups. While I think Baker will continue to ascend as a QB, I do find it concerning that he sneered at working w/a qb coach this off-season and chose to dedicate his time to living the life. The second year is important for quarterbacks. This is not a huge concern, but I'm mildly concerned.

Outside Expectations: The Browns are darlings in the media. They are getting a lot of pub and they themselves are talking some smack. What happens if the team doesn't live up to their lofty expectations early on? Is this young team w/so many new pieces on the roster and the coaching staff capable of displaying the fortitude to fight through adversity?

He "sneered" at it?

I will PM you the quote because I don't want this thread hijacked. President did a nice job of starting it.

In the meantime, do you have anything to add to the rest of what I wrote?

No, I didn't really take issue with any of the rest of it. For the most part I can see where people could easily see this from differing viewpoints.

Concerns 1-3 are similar to me, I'd say. I wouldn't rank Freddie as my #1 concern. I can already tell that the players love him and that's half the battle. I will be curious about his in game decisions.

I'm also not worried about OBJ. If he's acting up it's because we're losing and if we're losing it's because of something or someone else. Landry was an issue for the Dolphins and he did fine last year with us, but he was also our "go to" player. We'll see how things will go this year.

I'm not worried about a sophomore slump from Baker, but I am worried about an injury to him. If that happens we are toast. We might win a few games, but Mayfield is the one who can take us to the promised land.

I practically begged for us to take Baker. Once we did, I knew we wouldn't have to worry about the QB position for the next 10-15 years.

I'm concerned with the secondary still, very young or new to the team.

I am concerned with the offensive line, Greg Robinson really this good? ehhh Chris Hubbard is decent but ehh.

I am luke warm on our linebackers.


depth across the board.

Some of you guys sound like you really know the portion of the game that involves individual player technique. I do not so I in no way do I consider myself a football talent evaluator. Saying that, my concerns are based mostly on things I read and just from watching so I could be way off base.

1) Replacing Zeitler. I realize a lot of people are high on Corbett (sp)and he may be great, but he was in so little action he is my biggest concern. I think with Baker's size, protecting the middle is crucial & I think we did a great job last year and one new man can make a difference.

2) The defensive backfield. Ward's 2 concussions concern me a lot. He may never get another one, but to me he is critical to our success. I am not knowledgeable enough to truly know the quality we have at safety but we seemed vulnerable to the TE and crossing routes. Maybe they don't have anything to do with the other but it concerns me.

3) LBers. I think we have some talent but it seems like it was not always used well LY.

4) Expectations, possible arrogance on our players part. Not saying they are, but they may fall into the trap of success will be "easy" and lose a killer instinct.

5) Expectations of other teams. We should be taken more seriously this year and get everyone's best shot.

This all sounds negative on my end, but these are much more tolerable concerns than previous seasons.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. By the way, pretty cool topic.

Just a question, does anyone think we'll miss Perriman? He didn't do a bad job for a guy that came in Cold in mid season?

considering we basically replaced him with odell, I think we'll survive..lol

LOL Yeah, but I was just wondering. the guy was fast and at least for us, had some good hands.... But in the end,, you are right, OBJ takes the prize.

One thing I've considered and may come into play... Winning "shootouts"...

I think our offense will have the propensity to "strike quick". That will have an adverse effect on our defense. I'm concerned about our depth on the D-Line because I think they'll be spending a lot of time on the field with very short breaks at times. Scoreboard is rolling, defense is tired, gunslinger behind center who isn't afraid to, but will make mistakes. I can see us losing a few heart-breakers with 35 points on the board.

Other that that - really just the obvious:

Denzel Ward - big issue for me. Concussion #2, the contact did not look like something that would rattle most players in the league they way it did him. Very concerning. Big reason why we drafted Greedy IMO.

Getting GASHED with chunk yardage in the run game and turning run-of-the-mills into superstars. Been going on for decades here on the lake. I won't believe it stops til I see it with my own two eyes.

A slow start - it will be hard enough to steer all this young talent in the right direction with a new coaching staff. We don't need the extra "noise" that goes along with not living up to expectations. Many in the media (even those that have been touting us as a playoff team) are salivating... waiting for the first chance to see us "brown it up".