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Finally........some folks get it. Clicking on the link is a better read than reading what I copied due to the video.

Quote:

Colorado students walk out as school shooting vigil turns political
ABC News JOHN VERHOVEK,ABC News 3 hours ago


Colorado students walk out as school shooting vigil turns political originally appeared on abcnews.go.com

A vigil held Wednesday evening to recognize the victims and heroes of the shooting earlier this week at a Colorado high school turned into a political protest after some students in attendance expressed frustration with the tone and focus of the speeches.

According to local news reports, a group of students walked out of the event, organized by a local chapter of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, after hearing speeches from members of the community, including activists and elected officials like Senator Michael Bennet, a Democratic presidential candidate, and Rep. Jason Crow, who represents the district where Tuesday's shooting took place.

Both Bennet and Crow were invited by the Brady Campaign to speak at the event, which took place at a nearby high school, and also attended another vigil Wednesday night at a nearby church.

(MORE: Deadly Colorado school shooting revives memories of past tragedies)

Speakers at the event, which honored Kendrick Castillo, the 18-year-old who was killed protecting his fellow classmates at the STEM School in Highlands Ranch, also talked about the need to take action in the wake of another tragic school shooting and reform the nation's gun laws.

"I know our kids already have enough to do, they have a job to do when they come to school, you have a job to do when you come to school," Bennet, the former Superintendent of the Denver Public Schools, said before praising Castillo's bravery. "Their job is not to fix America's broken gun laws. Their job is not, as Kendrick so selflessly did yesterday, to give up their own life to save their classmates lives. Or the teachers' lives. That's not their job."
PHOTO: Sen. Michael Bennet speaks during a candlelight vigil at Highlands Ranch High School on May 8, 2019 in Highlands Ranch, Colo. (Michael Ciaglo/Getty Images)

"You sent me to Washington to speak the truth. So here it is – we are failing. We are failing when this happens over and over and over and over again and nothing happens," Crow, a gun owner and former Army Ranger elected to Congress last year, said. "You already have my thoughts and prayers, but you deserve and should demand more. Because to only send thoughts and prayers when you're a member of Congress or when you're in a position to take action and to affect change, it is empty, it is hollow, and you and your children deserve more."

On Thursday, Crow spoke with ABC News' Senior Washington Reporter Devin Dwyer about the protest, saying he supported the students' demand that they be given a chance to speak.

"It was a very emotional night, which I completely understand, these are students that had just gone through a horrific tragedy...And it became apparent halfway through the event that they weren’t being given an opportunity to speak," Crow said.

"So they stood up, as they should have, and demanded an opportunity to speak, and I supported that. I stayed late until every student was heard and had their opportunity to tell us how they felt about this issue and just express that emotion. So it was really important that we keep the focus on the students," he added.
PHOTO: Young people console each other during a community vigil to honor the victims and survivors of a fatal shooting at the STEM School Highlands Ranch, late Wednesday, May 8, 2019, in Highlands Ranch, Colo. (David Zalubowski/AP)

The tenor of the vigil seemed to shift after some in the audience began to express frustration that the event was not solely focused on remembering the heroes and victims of the shooting.

"This can be an incredibly divisible or painful or awful time, or it can be a time when we come together," another speaker at the event told the packed gymnasium.

After a number of speeches, one student in the audience shouted "Let STEM kids speak!" and video from the event from ABC News affiliate KMGH showed students chanting "Mental Health," as they left the event and gathered in the parking lot outside the gym.

Students later re-entered the event and vented their frustration at the media and politicians.

“What happened at STEM is awful, but it’s not a statistic. We can’t be used for a reason for gun control. We are people, not a statement,” one student said after the event.

The Brady Campaign issued an apology Thursday afternoon, saying that all efforts should be focused on providing support to the students, faculty, and families affected by the tragic shooting.

"We are here to lift up the voices of victims and survivors...We are deeply sorry any part of this vigil did not provide the support, caring and sense of community we sought to foster and facilitate and which we know is so crucial to communities who suffer the trauma of gun violence," the statement said.

In the days after the shooting, Castillo, who was killed three days before graduation, has been remembered for his kindness and bravery.

John Castillo, Kendrick Castillo's father, called his son's death "devastating, as you can imagine."

"When I see the people that he saved, it made me happy," John Castillo said. "I knew my son wouldn’t have it any other way. But as any parent would tell you, 'It's a heck of a trade-off.'"

ABC News' Devin Dwyer contributed to this report.


https://www.yahoo.com/gma/colorado-stude...-210900053.html


Just so you know, the students were shouting "Mental Health, Mental Health, Mental Health."

As a former educator and a current tutor of students, it is common knowledge that the mentally and emotionally disturbed students present a risk to the general population. They receive special privileges that compromises the general population and the teachers.

The student body at that school recognized that fact just as almost every student body does and they shouted down the stupid political rhetoric that is designed to further careers and opinions rather than fixing the actual problem.

People kill people. Not guns. Hell, I am not even a gun person. I would be happy if every gun in the world disappeared, so please don't misunderstand my point.

We are overridden w/young people w/severe emotional and mental problems and they are a risk to the general population in our schools. The current philosophy of coddling those students and penalizing all others is not working. It's time to address the real issue here.

I am not talking about punishing the mentally and emotionally disturbed, but I am talking about removing them from schools when they clearly present a danger to the general population.

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The cynic in me says, if this was not a trans-gendered shooter, would we even be talking about this?

The pragmatist in me says, anything that gets the conversation going into this direction if the correct one.

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Man, you love to derail threads.

This is about mental freaking health. Sex does not matter.

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I think you meant gender. lol

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Oh well................another worthwhile discussion shot down.

Man, this board......

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Shot down? I am not the arbiter of discussion. I gave my take and actually agreed with you.

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30 people have viewed this thread, and so far, the only person who cared it was a trans shooter was you. Maybe youre a victim of your own rhetoric.

Yenno, since you wave around the victim card.


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Such a victim I am. Whew, However will I manage

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Originally Posted By: BpG
Such a victim I am. Whew, However will I manage


I dont know. Better hide the credit card before you self sooth with it.


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j/c:

Let me try again........This is important to me.

I taught for years. I still run a tutoring service. I have a pretty good feel for what is "really" going on in schools. I have tried to bring this up before when school shootings turned into gun control threads.

I am not a huge gun advocate. I am not deflecting.

I am simply telling you that emotionally disturbed students are the real issue here. We are a caring society and the laws and policies have been governed to protect those students. I admire the act of kindness.

The problem is that some [not all] of these emotionally disturbed students receive special rights and escape consequences that the general population does not. Their parent[s] claim bullying, but in fact, they bully more than others.

I will give you one story that symbolizes what I am speaking of. I had a student who used to pick his boogers and smear them on the arms of other students. We were in cooperative learning groups and he did this to the girl beside him. She was grossed out and screamed at him. He fell on the floor and began screaming about how people were bullying him. His mom came in and demanded action against the "offending" student.

He used to steal pencils, papers, and other educational items from another boy in his group. When the boy grabbed one of his items back, he screamed that he was being "bullied." Again, his mom complained.

He used to throw himself on the floor and bang his head. We were instructed by the psychologists to ignore this behavior because he was expressing himself.

He punched another student in the face because they touched one another in line. He escaped punishment because of his "circumstances."

The kids were terrified of him and his mom. The teachers were afraid, too. How do we serve his needs while protecting the needs of the entire class?

I could go on and on and on ............but y'all, this is a real issue.

Please stop deflecting the real issue by making dumb ass political arguments that solve nothing. Identify the real problem and move to correct it.

Believe me, it won't be easy and might never happen due to sensitivity issues, but please stop the facade.

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Good for the students... that's not the time nor place to get political... argue politics later.. not at a vigil for the victims...


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If we're addressing the real issue, it's not about Mental Health - it really isn't. Its probably about having no safeguards in place to prevent the sale of guns to people with problems.And even then thats probably only part of it.

If this was the real issue, Mental Health problems would be exclusive to America but it's not, its Worldwide.....but school shootings seem to be almost exclusively an American event. (See also Video Games for another area of false blame).

I think the world has done much in recent years to de-stigmatise people with mental health problems which in most cases has seen people reach out to get the support and help they need. The last thing we need is to take huge backward steps.

We could also maybe not give schizophrenics, psychotics and the disturbed, assault rifles just for the trouble of ponying up some benjamins and flashing a drivers license. wink


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I'm sure you know a lot more about the climate in schools than I do. I'm sure you have a better grasp as to how the social deviants are created than I do.

Bury your heads in the sand. The problem will fix itself w/stronger gun regulations.

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I'm sure I know that schools in the 2 countries that I've lived in have the same issues with students with problems but don't get shot up every couple of days dude.

You saying that only American schools have children with mental health problems? Because if you ain't saying that, why aren't other countries having this problem on such a massive scale. When you answer that you may see that your point doesn't add up. Mental health is everywhere dude, school shootings are just yours.

D- try again.


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You are misinterpreting what I am saying because of your opinions on the matter. I posted the article and the students were chanting "mental health," but my point is that many of the strategies we have used w/our emotionally and socially challenged children are only nurturing their issues and are creating a larger divide between them and the general population.

Being an outlier w/emotional and social issues while learning that you can get your way by misbehaving is at the core of the problem.

I will say this again. I am NOT a gun advocate. I'm okay w/stronger gun laws. However, that politically driven move will not fix the problem. It is my opinion that we need to find the genesis of the problem and that clearly lies w/the social monsters we are raising in our schools.

It's something that most everyone in the schools knows. However, it's an uncomfortable stance to make because it makes one look like he/she is uncaring and harsh towards those who do suffer from certain social and emotional issues.

I am not claiming we should turn our backs on them. I am saying we need a new approach as to how we deal w/these very prevalent issues. The deterioration of families, values, and many other aspects of American life have added to rapid increase in these types of situations and teen suicides. Do a quick google search about the increase in teen suicides. It won't take more than 30 seconds to paint a very horrifying picture.

There are no quick fixes here. This is a deeply embedded problem that's going to take a lot of soul-searching, effort, and resiliency to invoke change.

Please, can we have just one thread about this topic and not turn it into yet another gun control thread? Please? Maybe we can start a new thread on gun control and people can argue back and forth again on guns. I just want a thread where we can discuss something that is much, much deeper and far more complex than guns.

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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
30 people have viewed this thread, and so far, the only person who cared it was a trans shooter was you. Maybe youre a victim of your own rhetoric.

Yenno, since you wave around the victim card.

How the media covers things (or doesn't cover things) based on political factors and the agenda they wish to further is a worthy topic of discussion.. but it is a distinctly SEPARATE conversation than discussing the event and the factors that led up to the event and whether or not the event could have been prevented.. often they get dragged together and it gets frustrating.... I've been guilty of inserting one into the other myself a couple times but I try not to..

Were they chanting MENTAL HEALTH because they think mental health in general is the cause of a lot of these shootings? Is it because the student population KNEW these kids specifically posed a threat and nobody did anything about it?

I understand Vers point that we FORCE some kids into the general student body because we want to HOPE that they can fashion some kind of a normal life even though all of the indicators are there that they can't. I understand that parents don't want to admit that their kid has some serious mental issues going on and presents a danger to themselves and others.. I can't imagine how hard that has to be as a parent and how much one would try to rationalize and explain away to not have to admit that to yourself...

And if you do finally admit it, then what? Do you keep the kid institutionalized or totally isolated while they get help?

There are no easy answers to fixing this... it is a complex problem that involves a wide number of societal variables... and, I think I'm in agreement with Vers, this goes so far beyond just changing gun laws or making some types of guns illegal... would that help? Perhaps. Is it going to make this kind of stuff go away? No, I don't think it is. It will just shift the means and methods until we fix the root cause..


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I think our society takes a shallow stance when it comes to the issues of mass murders and suicides.

We look at the "what" of it rather than ask "why?"

I'll keep this simple for now and if anyone is interested [which I doubt...lol] we can delve deeper.

Why do people shoot each other or themselves?

I think I can understand the "why" of it when it's a desperate kid in the ghetto. I can understand how rage and/or jealousy motivates someone to take such desperate actions. I would never agree that their reasons are justified, but I get the motivation.

However, why do so many financially secure kids devise elaborate plans to kill others or take their own life? What has happened in their lives to resort to such a drastic action? I'm not buying that they see a gun and say, "hey, it would be cool to kill a bunch of other people or put this barrel down my throat and blow my head off."

We need to study the "why" of these horrific decisions and take measures to identify and treat kids who are silently screaming that they need help.

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I think kids can be treated. However in many cases there simply aren't the resources allocated to recognize these things are coming before they happen. There are also cases where there were no obvious signs to predict this was coming. Some people just "snap".

I also think too much attention is given to, "These kids came from a good neighborhood", or "Their family was financially secure/stable". All some kids think about is money and security. But often times they see the world, and their world more specifically as chaotic. Both parents work and they feel lost, unloved or neglected.

As a society I think we have delved far too much into a world of "things" and not "people".

I also feel you have touched on the point of making children more responsible for their actions. I agree. I think if children knew from a much younger age that there were consequences for their actions they would think more before they acted. The way things stand now they think they can do almost anything and get away with it. As they grow older this situation only multiplies.

I do think mental illness plays a large part in many mass shootings. But I also think that's a far too simplistic explanation for all of them. Sometimes I feel it's simply an issue of massive anger and acting out on that anger. I guess we could categorize that as a mental issue but not a classic case of it that many would think of as a mental illness.

I feel if parents could just take the time to actually know their children better and understand what they go through on a day to day basis a lot of this could be prevented.


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Again, his mom complained.


Right here is what I think the problem is Vers. There's a new term out and it's called LAWNMOWER PARENTS. It's why I just divorced my 2nd wife and her 13 yr old son after 8 years. I told her you have no idea what you're doing to your son.

I'm no expert on this so I will ask you; do you think these kids are TRULY mentally ill? As in diagnosed as something not connecting in their head? I believe it's coddling and these parents not letting their kids deal with adversity themselves. JMHO

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I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist. I started off in that program when I was in college, but later switched majors. I'm hesitant to offer a diagnosis due to my lack of expertise.

I will say that I may not have done a very good job of explaining my position off the bat. I never intended to hang a mental illness label on this. I just had to report what the students were chanting.

Yet, I don't know if mentally competent people try and execute mass murders or take their own lives. I really don't want to go too far down that path.

What I do know is that there are a staggering number of emotionally and socially troubled kids out there. I know that both students and teachers recognize "possible murderers" at a fairly young age.

I also know that many of them have a lot in common, but I am reluctant to share those traits on here because people on here misinterpret them and the conversation regresses to insults and slandering, while the real issues are ignored.

I also know that our laws and the practices of our school psychologists are well-intended, but are actually nurturing poor behavior. I think it is a colossal mistake to reward those who misbehave.

We had a student who pushed a girl all the way down the hallway, pinned her to wall leading into the bathroom and rubbed his junk all over her face. He was suspended two days and then the geniuses decided to put him on the "Leadership Team" so his self-esteem would increase and he would feel like a viable member of the community. I have hundreds and hundreds of such examples. Children are being rewarded for behaving poorly.

I won't go into this part too deep right now, but the social isolation that so many middle school and high school kids endure is a huge concern. They see all the great things going on due to technology and they aren't experiencing real-life, genuine human interaction. Self loathing or blaming others is often the result of such isolation. They may harm themselves. They may harm others.

I think we need to identify these children early by profiling, just like law enforcement does in other criminal activities. I get that is controversial, but these murders and suicides are becoming the norm. I also think we need to find new ways to address these issues and provide treatment. I really don't have the answers as to what those might be due to me not be qualified enough. However, we do have people who are qualified and we need dramatic changes in how we are dealing w/our troubled youths in this country.

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Not sure how true this is, but it kinda goes to what I have been speaking of. I'll just post the beginning part of the article. You can click the link if you want to read the entire thing. The omitted part is a recapping of the shooting and protests.

Quote:

[color:#

USA TODAY Trevor Hughes, John Bacon and Jorge[/color] L. Ortiz,USA TODAY


HIGHLANDS RANCH, Colo. – A woman claiming to be a parent of a STEM School student warned school district administrators in December about what she described as rampant bullying, drug use and her fears of a “a repeat of Columbine” at the semi-autonomous charter school.

The anonymous complaints alarmed authorities enough that they requested an investigation by police and school officials.

It’s not yet clear whether there’s any connection between the woman’s complaints and the Tuesday attack at the school that killed one student and injured eight others. Two students accused in the attack remain jailed and are expected to be formally charged Friday.

As a charter school, the STEM School is largely exempt from the rules and policies governing neighboring public schools, although it is still accountable to the district via a legal agreement.

STEM School officials in January adamantly rejected the woman’s concerns and sued her for defamation, according to court records and a letter sent by district officials to the school and obtained by USA TODAY. Because the woman’s call was made anonymously, STEM School officials asked a judge to subpoena phone records to find her.



The caller told district officials that the school’s high-pressure environment was creating a “perfect storm” because of drug use, peer pressure and an administration blind to ongoing problems, according to a summary provided by district officials.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/apos-kendrick-went-hero-apos-112540507.html



People associated w/schools know the real deal. We are creating monsters.

I also find it telling that the school is suing the woman who called and warned them about a possible shooting. Schools have their heads buried in the sand and are refusing to address a major problem.

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I understand what you're saying, nobody seems to be listening to those that recognize certain behaviors. It's a tough call because parents have a hard time accepting concerns about their children. It's fine to talk about other kids but how dare you talk about mine!

I have no clue what a solution is but I'm glad students got fed up with the politics.

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Quote:
why do so many financially secure kids devise elaborate plans to kill others or take their own life?


I can only look at the situation I left. My ex-stepson knows more about guns than I do and I was in the military. This kid can spit out makes, models, round size of guns I never heard of. Nobody wants to hear it but the video games these kids play are giving them an education we've been ignoring. They're in their rooms playing online tallying up the body count.

The lack of discipline and attention from the parents, bailing them out of any challenge they encounter, it's sickening. I refer to this generation as the ENTITLEMENT GENERATION. Take something away from them and they want to call the cops on you. I'll tell them you hit me blah blah blah.

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My experience has taught me that the parents are usually the biggest problem. I am not saying this is true in all cases or in cases of more severe mental illnesses, but most of the students we have seen that suffer from severe emotional and social issues have a fractured home life.

The one student I mentioned earlier who used to throw himself on the floor, smear his boogers on other students, bang his head on the floor, punch other students.....and then scream that he was being bullied was one such case.

I had many conferences w/his mother. His other teachers and administration did, as well. We all noted that the mother would call her ex-husband a ton of names I cannot say on here. She would say things like: "it's no wonder why Sean [fictional name] is screwed up w/having such a spineless, drug addict father as a role model." And the most horrific part is that she would say that right in front of her son.

Y'all think about that...

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My experience has taught me that the parents are usually the biggest problem


I agree but think it's more than just fractured homes. We have both parents working to make ends meet. We have the rich entitled kids that think mommy and daddy will buy them out of any trouble they get into.

Again I'm not an expert but I see the same you do just by association. Man I can tell you sick stories about my ex. Nothing violent but real concerning like the age he was before she stopped wiping his butt.

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I didn't mean to imply it was only "fractured homes." Sorry if I wasn't clear. It's just one of the things that come up more often than not. There are several things that pop up over and over and over.

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No problem Vers. I also think another problem is these kids are expecting school shootings now. The young man that died protecting his classmates told his dad what he'd do if that happened.

After these shooters get arrested and charged we don't get the coverage by the media for the sentencing. They got their 15 HOURS of fame for the act then never talked about. Maybe if kids actually see what happens to these shooters it might deter...who knows...they obviously don't value life.

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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
30 people have viewed this thread, and so far, the only person who cared it was a trans shooter was you. Maybe youre a victim of your own rhetoric.

Yenno, since you wave around the victim card.


A shooter is a shooter... Doesn't matter what gender they are or think they are.

You pick up a gun and randomly shoot people, you are the bad guy....

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Originally Posted By: Riddler
If we're addressing the real issue, it's not about Mental Health - it really isn't. Its probably about having no safeguards in place to prevent the sale of guns to people with problems.And even then thats probably only part of it.

If this was the real issue, Mental Health problems would be exclusive to America but it's not, its Worldwide.....but school shootings seem to be almost exclusively an American event. (See also Video Games for another area of false blame).

I think the world has done much in recent years to de-stigmatise people with mental health problems which in most cases has seen people reach out to get the support and help they need. The last thing we need is to take huge backward steps.

We could also maybe not give schizophrenics, psychotics and the disturbed, assault rifles just for the trouble of ponying up some benjamins and flashing a drivers license. wink


Case in point right here. You're entitled to your opinion but I disgree.

This is precisely about mental illness. The longer you ignore that, the longer the issue will continue. Instead of wanting to help people that may have mental illness, you're advocating for some type of gun laws or restrictions to be applied, not addressing the real problem but merely quietly sweeping it under the rug. This is wrong. How would you define mental illness? Who is in charge of defining whether or someone is mentally ill enough to warrant not being able to have a gun in your world? If someone goes in to buy a gun, is there a field in a database that lists that someone is mentally ill? How many checkups or diagnosis in the past qualify someone as being "mentally ill?" One? Two? Additional times? Do the illness or symptoms have to last a particular period of time for someone to be declared mentally ill? Who decides all this? In addition to this, gun laws have come and went since this country was founded. Where were the school shootings in the US during the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's. Sure, there were some but not like today. Why is that? Is it mental illness? Is it because the culture itself has changed? Why?

All of that is a slippery slope and would potentially lead to more anti-gun laws trying to be passed which would harm every day Americans. It also would not prohibit criminals from getting guns because they don't care one iota about the rule of law.

That is also against the 2nd amendment of the constitution. At least in my experience this seems to be how government works. You give them an inch on something and they take a mile, always. From a cynical point of view, why wouldn't they want to? The 2nd amendment was invented so the citizens of the country would have the rights to defend themselves against their own government should it become tyrannical. The first step to government control is to take away citizens gun rights. This is usually what happens in multiple countries when a fascist or dictatorship is enacted.

Also, don't point to other countries in comparison. They are not the United States. Our government, laws, constitution, is quite unique in the grand scheme of the world. We're one of the only countries to have freedom of speech, right to bear arms, and other necessary essentials. In short, I'm glad I don't live in those other nations because they have a fraction of our rights and our less free. Let that sink in for a moment. They are less free...

I want to stop school shootings as much as the next person but I don't think creating new gun laws is the answer. The real source of the problem is mental illness and culture. Those are not the easy items to solve but the more difficult ones, and we need to take the time to figure out how to do that.




Last edited by tastybrownies; 05/11/19 12:41 PM.

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ahh, the good old mental health excuse.

i wonder why people who live in the inner city get no such excuses.


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Well because..... I mean.....well......


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I'm pretty sure Vers included the inner city. He clarified in reply to my post it's also the rich kids superconfused

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Originally Posted By: Swish
ahh, the good old mental health excuse.

i wonder why people who live in the inner city get no such excuses.


This makes no sense to me. People in the inner city have more of an excuse than the white people who are committing these horrific crimes and also taking their own lives. I thought I was pretty freaking clear about that.

I am not sure if what I am saying is too deep for the people on this board or if they really believe that emotionally and socially troubled youths are not a problem in this country.

I have tried to make it clear that I have no problem w/stricter gun laws. Go for it. I'm just saying that it won't solve the real problem. It's time for America to open its eyes. If you think guns are the reason kids are growing up to be mass murders or are the reason for a rapid rise in suicide, well............your freaking head is in the sand.

Methinks that is where most Americans feel most comfortable. It beats having to do something that is troubling to fix the issue. Just keep your collective heads in the sand and say key words like "guns," "libertards," "Cons," "illegal aliens," "blacks," "old white guys," etc.

It's maddening how blind and simple are general population is. Slap a label on something and and walk away. rolleyes

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my response was to TB


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Btw----------that wasn't really to Swish. Just all of America.

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My bad, bro. I admit that I am ultra-sensitive about this topic.

Freaking politicians and decision makers care more about looking good than fixing the damn problem! And we're talking human beings here. Not the energy crisis, the environment, historical treasures, inflation, etc, etc. We're talking about human freaking beings and these dolts bury their heads in the sand and trot out labels and generic statements as if they really freaking care.

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I get all of that Vers. I'm not a take their guns guy, but I am a protect the kids guy! All you see from the adults in charge of this is political posturing, nothing actionable or effective to fix the issue.


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I don't feel there is really any acceptable "excuse" for school shootings and murdering people.

"My situation is worse than your situation" doesn't justify anything.


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Originally Posted By: tastybrownies
Originally Posted By: Riddler
If we're addressing the real issue, it's not about Mental Health - it really isn't. Its probably about having no safeguards in place to prevent the sale of guns to people with problems.And even then thats probably only part of it.

If this was the real issue, Mental Health problems would be exclusive to America but it's not, its Worldwide.....but school shootings seem to be almost exclusively an American event. (See also Video Games for another area of false blame).

I think the world has done much in recent years to de-stigmatise people with mental health problems which in most cases has seen people reach out to get the support and help they need. The last thing we need is to take huge backward steps.

We could also maybe not give schizophrenics, psychotics and the disturbed, assault rifles just for the trouble of ponying up some benjamins and flashing a drivers license. wink


Case in point right here. You're entitled to your opinion but I disgree.

This is precisely about mental illness. The longer you ignore that, the longer the issue will continue. Instead of wanting to help people that may have mental illness, you're advocating for some type of gun laws or restrictions to be applied, not addressing the real problem but merely quietly sweeping it under the rug. This is wrong. How would you define mental illness? Who is in charge of defining whether or someone is mentally ill enough to warrant not being able to have a gun in your world? If someone goes in to buy a gun, is there a field in a database that lists that someone is mentally ill? How many checkups or diagnosis in the past qualify someone as being "mentally ill?" One? Two? Additional times? Do the illness or symptoms have to last a particular period of time for someone to be declared mentally ill? Who decides all this? In addition to this, gun laws have come and went since this country was founded. Where were the school shootings in the US during the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's. Sure, there were some but not like today. Why is that? Is it mental illness? Is it because the culture itself has changed? Why?

All of that is a slippery slope and would potentially lead to more anti-gun laws trying to be passed which would harm every day Americans. It also would not prohibit criminals from getting guns because they don't care one iota about the rule of law.

That is also against the 2nd amendment of the constitution. At least in my experience this seems to be how government works. You give them an inch on something and they take a mile, always. From a cynical point of view, why wouldn't they want to? The 2nd amendment was invented so the citizens of the country would have the rights to defend themselves against their own government should it become tyrannical. The first step to government control is to take away citizens gun rights. This is usually what happens in multiple countries when a fascist or dictatorship is enacted.

Also, don't point to other countries in comparison. They are not the United States. Our government, laws, constitution, is quite unique in the grand scheme of the world. We're one of the only countries to have freedom of speech, right to bear arms, and other necessary essentials. In short, I'm glad I don't live in those other nations because they have a fraction of our rights and our less free. Let that sink in for a moment. They are less free...

I want to stop school shootings as much as the next person but I don't think creating new gun laws is the answer. The real source of the problem is mental illness and culture. Those are not the easy items to solve but the more difficult ones, and we need to take the time to figure out how to do that.






Just summarise for me bro but it seems like a few people have this ol school shootings thing neatly wrapped up and laid firmly and squarely at the feet of mental health.

Not one person has come up with (or even tried to address for that matter) why other countries with the same types of people with every one of the same issues do not have school shootings on such a scale and with such frequency.

It really makes a mockery of any kind of point you guys are trying to make.

Now, I know you probs think it's a loaded question and the answer I'm trying to lead you to is all these other countries have strict gun control and access but that's not where I'm going at all (even though there is a fair amount of truth in it.....certainly more truth than "It's all the fault of deranged individuals" anyways)


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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
I don't feel there is really any acceptable "excuse" for school shootings and murdering people.

"My situation is worse than your situation" doesn't justify anything.


That isn't what I said.

I said I understand why some people might use guns to rob stores, shoot someone who is sleeping w/their spouse, or in a fit of rage. I don't agree w/any of that, but I get why they think they might use a gun.

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