DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What's your NFL QB tier-list ranking?

1 Tom Brady
2 Drew Brees
3 Russell Wilson
4 Aaron Rodgers
5 Patrick Mahomes
6 Baker Mayfield
7 Ben Roethlisberger
8 Phillip Rivers
9 Andrew Luck
10 Deshaun Watson
11 Jimmy G
12 Cam Newton
13 Matt Ryan
14 Marcus Mariota
15 Carson Wentz
16 Mitch Trubisky
17 Jared Goff
18 Nick Foles
19 Dak Prescott
20 Kirk Cousins
21 Sam Darnold
22 Josh Rosen
23 Lamar Jackson
24 Nick Foles
25 Andy Dalton
26 Josh Allen
27 Derek Carr
28 Jameis Winston
29 Kyler Murray
30 Dwayne Haskins
31 Joe Flacco
32 Eli Manning


I expected making that would be harder.

As of past history:

Elite:

Brady
Brees
Ben
Rodgers

2nd-level:
Rivers
Wilson
Baker Mayfield
Goff
Newton
Stafford

3rd:
Watson
Marietta
Jimmy G.

Rest: who cares?

I would have to put Baker in the almost elite category. He did something no one else had ever done, with 27 TD passes as a rookie, and he did so in only 13.5 games. Now it's up to him to take the next step.

MaHommes threw 50 TD passes last year. That's elite.

Could these guys slip and decline? Sure, I suppose they could .... but based on their production last year, and coming into a new year, I think you have to look at what they did last year, as well as years before.

The guy who was elite during his 1st 5 years, yet fell off badly in the last 2, is no longer elite. By contrast, I think that the guy who came on super strong, and reached levels few, if any, have ever reached, he's elite.

A question.............do we only measure a qb by TDs?

Are wins, completion percentage, and interceptions not even measurable factors?

Forgot about Ryan. I'd put him in 2nd-level QB .

I would think all aspects are considered.

But I would say I think if Mahomes only threw 30 TDs he probably wouldn't have been MVP.

No on wins, yes on all the others.

I wasn't asking you. I wanted a reply from someone who is somewhat open-minded.

I kinda get that, but you are saying a qb w/a losing record should be considered as "elite?"

I am not saying you are suggesting that, but it kind of comes across that way. Just asking you to clarify.

Dammit! I forgot about Mahomes!

He's Level 2, bumping Stafford.

I think Mahomes is the best qb in the league right now. I say that while admitting that I was wrong about the guy. We had posters saying he was all that in college and I disagreed. I said he was too inaccurate to be a top qb.

I swear I saw that in college, but damn man, the dude is very accurate. I was dead wrong and can admit it.

He is a true difference maker. Best qb in the league right now.

Usually a team with a good QB ends up having a winning record which means the QB ends up with a winning record. But there is definitely a circumstance I can see where a QB's team is horrible but he is elite.

For example, Philip Rivers went 4-12 and 5-11 in 2015 and 2016 respectively. He was very good. His team was terrible. The Saints had seven wins four out of five years from 2012 to 2016 and Drew Brees was among the best QBs in the league.

All factors can contribute. However, when you look at how other QBs in a similar situation did .... for example, when (and though in a different era) Peyton Manning completed only 56% of his passes, with 26 TD and 28 INT, 6.5 yards/pass, and a 3-13 record ..... well, Baker matches up favorably.

Russell Wilson is a guy in a more modern era, and he had an excellent rookie year. 11-5, 64% completions, 26 TD, 10 INT, 7.9 yards/attempt.

Baker Mayfield's numbers were 64% completions, 6-7 (though since he won a game where we were trailing by 14 when he came in, I would give him 7-7) 7.7 yards/attempt, 26 TD, 14 INT.

Wilson took over a team that was 7-9 the season before. They also had a great scoring defense. I think that, despite being a longer shot based on draft status, he had an easier situation to drop into. He had very good RB and WR on his team. One thing that cannot be overestimated is the fact that his coach and OC weren't fired at mid-season. Baker also had the pressure to turn around a miserable team.

So, when I look at the facts surrounding the situation Baker was in, and the results he produced, I have to put him at least at "almost elite".

I'm only basing my rankings on history, not potential.

Mahomes won the MVP award last year.

Ironic.

I agree in principle, but I think that a guy needs to do it over a period of time before he can be considered elite despite having a losing record.

The biggest exception I ever saw was Archie Manning. I thought he was a very good qb, but his teams lost. I still think he was a good qb.

Yeah and I forgot about him. He won the MVP but IMO he is not yet elite. Too small of a work history.

Fair argument. I think Baker had a lot more offensive talent around him than Wilson. I also think he is inaccurate at times due to his footwork. I think he passes up easy completions and forces the ball downfield. I think he is good when his first read is open, but struggles a bit when asked to read coverages. I think he turns it over too much.

I don't think he is close to "elite" yet.

With that said, I think he had a helluva first year and I was surprised by how well he played. I think he has the potential to be elite. I just would not put him there yet.

The overall point is that the defense contributes to wins and losses too. That means a QB is being credited (or not credited) for the play of his defense. That makes no sense.

LOL............I know what you are saying.

Conversely, a qb's play can affect the defense, too. Turn it over a lot? The other team scores. Too many three and outs? The other team scores.

I'm not getting on your case because I think you are being honest. I just don't think Baker is close to "elite" yet. I do expect him to reach that level this year, though.

I agree that the QB can affect the defense's performance. That just further hammers home the point.

I didn't have Baker as elite yet either. I had him as the 11th best QB in the league. His win/loss record is completely meaningless to me.

For me, wins and losses can play a role, but it's not the end all. As you said, elite quarterbacks have losing seasons. (And I don't consider Baker as a losing quarterback, 7-7 with, 0-1-1 without)

I'm not measuring baker solely on wins and touchdowns. The physical stats also aren't the end all. I'm not just talking about Baker the player. I'm also talking about Baker the person.

An elite quarterback needs to be able to lead and Baker is certainly an elite leader. Players want to come here because of him.

Your quarterback needs to be a playmaker. Baker is certainly an elite playmaker. He's very intelligent. He can read the defense, work through his progressions, and find the open receiver. He keeps his eyes down field. He's not afraid to take that hit in the pocket. He knows how to manipulate the defense. He has the ability to throw his receivers open and knows where to put the ball where only his guy can get to it. He has amazing pocket presence and amazing footwork and throws with balance. My favorite throw is the one to Landry against Carolina for a touchdown. THAT was an elite throw!

I could say i don't care about the stats and I don't. Watching him play the game is something special. Something we've not seen here in a long long time. All the things people say you can't teach, he has and he does. He elevates the play of everyone around him. He even elevates the fans.

Elite-ism isn't something that takes time to establish, you are either awesome at your craft or you're not. And Baker is flat out awesome! People want to say it takes time and that whatever comes later doesn't make him elite now, that's fine. I don't care.

The talk before the season was how an 0-16 team could never make the playoffs the next year. We still had a chance to make the playoffs heading into wk 16. How many said that wasn't possible? But there we were.

I mean I guess I get it. People do not want to rank him as elite just yet but he's trending there. Ok. Fine. In my book he's already made it. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Wilson wasn't exactly deficient in talent around him.

Beast Mode, Sydney Rice, Doug Baldwin, and Golden Tate were all good weapons for him. They had a run heavy offense, that resulted in 2579 yards rushing. That is astonishing, and great for supporting a rookie QB. Now, in fairness, about 450 of those yards were from Wilson.

Wilson only threw for 3118 yards as a rookie. (in 16 starts)

Baker threw for over 3700 yards in 13.5 games. His 27 TD passes were good for 11th in the NFL.

I agree with some of your other assessment. However, I have always said that I believe it more possible to rein in a wild QB, than to get a timid QB to take calculated chances when the opportunity presents itself. I also think that you underestimate his ability to read a defense. Yes he does occasionally get fooled, but that happens to all rookies. He had a total of 14 INT and 3 fumbles lost. That is not bad at all for a rookie. There is a long list of upper level QB who had 11-12 INT last year. 8 of Baker's 14 INT came in 3 games, against the Chargers, Texans, and Ravens. Sometimes a defense winds up with the right combination of tricks and tools, and their offense gets ahead so they can really come after the opposing rookie QB. I think that happened in all of those games.

I think that Baker is closer to elite than you do. It's all good, though.

1st thing u need to do is define elite ... my definition when it comes to nfl players includes having to do it for 3 or 4 years at an elite level before they can become elite therefore Mahommes and Bake don’t qualify yet ...

Mahommes had an elite year ... one of the best ever ... he needs to play at an elite level a few more years to enter into the elite category ...

Bake had an elite rookie season .... he did not have an elite year when u factor in all nfl qb’s ... he did some elite things FOR A ROOKIE and showed the potential to become elite really really quick ... but IMO saying he’s elite now is a rush to judgement ...

Now if i had to start a franchise my #1 pick would be Mahomes and my #2 pick would be Bake ...

I agree. Elite is the player who does it year in and year out.

I would agree with you about Wilson and his surrounding talent. Baker's feature back was also a rookie. His lone deep threat was also a rookie. Learning curve for everyone, and still...

For me, i'm talking about the quarterback himself, not necessarily the numbers he puts up. However, I'm sure most would say they want to see him do it again. And again. Wilson was another who was known as elite out of the gate doing elite things his first year. Im ok with the status some proclaim our quarterback while others want to see more...

I'm not looking at sustained success over long periods of time - my list is who I think the best QB's in the NFL today (or game 1 of the season). Some of it has to be forecasting - because how else do you include rookie QB's who will start this year? My list doesn't include any future growth of the QB - so no matter how well a QB may develop in the future, I'm ranking them on their anticipated play with their current roster for the upcoming season.

Used CHS as a basis for my list as it's pretty close to where I would rank a lot of these QB's.

Somewhere I lost a QB ... and I took Flocco off the list since Lamar is starting. Lamar got dinged because I see teams taking away the run and I think he's not such a good passer, Cam got dinged as I don't think he's a very good QB (supreme athlete - not great QB).

From memory - what Baker did in his rookie season was 9th best in the NFL last year from a purely statistical perspective? Sure I read / saw that .... and that doesn't reflect the turmoil he experienced in the FO for the first few weeks and that he didn't get 1st team reps till late .... I think dropping him into anything below the second level of any QB rating is unwarranted. And that's without even talking about additions this off season.