DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Duke Johnson asks to be traded

Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact he's very highly paid with production that doesn't match his paycheck.

In case you missed it, nobody wants to pay him that much. That makes it hard to trade him. He isn't that productive when compared to his pay. If he doesn't go anywhere it's because teams won't pay that price tag. Not because we wouldn't trade him if we could.

We're not talking about Landry. Let's keep the thread on track, please.

Duke is a specialist, he's a change of pace back and a receiver out of the backfield similar to what Darren Sproles is/was. Sproles is getting up there in age (36 in another month) but his contract before last season's 1 year deal paid him $4 mill a year on average (with Philly) and back in 2009/2010 he was making about $7 mill a year under the franchise tag (with the Chargers) and his yearly rushing/receiving numbers are similar to Duke's.

Way to keep it relative.

His stats with the Saints outweigh anything Duke has ever done by a mile. It's odd that you mention the one franchise tag year as some guide as to what he was paid. Because we both know that didn't reflect his actual contract when he was signed.

j/c:

I thought Hunt was only out for 8 games rather than 10?

I'm also really glad to see that Barry Sanders is still in the NFL. And Ray Rice and MJD are too?

Anyway, I have no idea what the Browns will do or even what they should do. It's a tough situation because of Hunt's suspension.

On one hand, keeping Duke would be smart because he is a good change of pace back and could help fill the void if Chubb gets hurt early on.

On the other hand, I don't see a role for Duke once Hunt is reinstated because the latter can do everything Duke can do---only better. There is also the risk of Duke being a distraction. That isn't an insult against Duke because he should feel he deserves to play.

Tough situation and I don't know what the correct answer is.

Sproles yearly rushing and receiving totals are nearly identical to Duke's. Sproles in the 10 years he played most of the season averaged 325 yds rushing and 52 catches for 457 yds. Duke is averaging 322 yds rushing and 59 catches for 543 yds.

We agree then ....

Figured it would go downhill from that point on so I quit reading there ... *L*

We just disagree as to why he’s here .... but i love how u frame it and make it look so simple ... its all about the money Diam, quit muddying up the water ... *L*

Duke brings value to this team Pit and he would bring value to a lot of other teams .... his average salary means DIDDLY ... its all about the remaining guaranteed and what his cap hit is this year as far as a trade goes ....

Go get those numbers .... u know ... THE ONES THAT MATTER and are actually relevant to the convo, then we can have a chat about how much salary may have played a part in it ....

Educate me Pit ...

I know you wish to ignore the fact that San Diego signed him based on what he did in New Orleans. Where he had 604, 667 and 710 receiving yards respectively. We have never used Duke to that degree and if last year was any indication, we never will.

So tell me, who is Duke going to take reps away from? OBJ? Landry? Calloway? Higgins? Njoku?

So at best, Duke would be the sixth option. Yeah, sometimes one has to look at the way a team is built when looking at the value of a player.

It really is pretty simple. I'll pose the same thing to you I posed to dawg 66.

So tell me, who is Duke going to take reps away from? OBJ? Landry? Calloway? Higgins? Njoku?

So at best, Duke would be the sixth option. Yeah, sometimes one has to look at the way a team is built when looking at the value of a player. You see, when we didn't have much in the way of good WR's Duke had more value. Now? There's not enough touches to go around. I'm pretty sure you get that.

Your situation determines a players value.

Riddle me that one.

Duke and Landry run the same route tree if we're being honest with ourselves. One gets paid 15 million to do it, the other gets paid 5...

What? I'm not getting this take at all.

Duke's a good receiving back. We haven't seen how he is as a receiver at all. Landry is usually D'ed up by corners and safeties. Duke gets motioned to WR and gets D'ed up by LBs.

I like Duke Johnson a lot. He's a very versatile back. He can do everything. And he's very good at catching the ball. But he's not Jarvis Landry. Nor would he put up the production of Jarvis Landry if he was moved into that position.

And, running the same route tree? Nope. I haven't seen that at all

Dukes a RB ... why would he take reps from WR’s or TE’s? ... that is a very device like post ...

If u meant targets devi errrr Pit .... are u suggesting were NEVER GOING TO THROW TO OUR RB’S ... that sure will hinder our O ...

I asked u to educate me ... not present different spin ....

Agreed. That's almost as bad as saying Barry Sanders is still playing in the league. LOL

Because he runs the same route tree as Landry if we are being honest w/ourselves.

Actually Duke lined up at WR quite a bit between 2015 and 2017 and played very well. I remember that the Steelers had Joe Haden cover him in the 2017 opener.

Jarvis and Duke do best against linebackers and slot corners. If you look at their stats, Duke actually outperforms Jarvis when it comes to yards per target. The next gen stats are still lacking on Duke (only 6 games logged), but you can see his similarities with Jarvis. They do their best work running short routes to the inside.

But yes, the target was meant to be rather tongue in cheek considering the idea that players were "over valued" contract wise.

But it's not as dumb as saying you'd rather have Cam Erving than Odell Beckham Jr and Olivier Vernon

Funny, I thought yesterday we agreed to ignore each other. I couldn't find the post, maybe I was dreaming that you turned a leaf and wouldn't start fights on this forum. Oh well.

You liked your own post, dude.

I have fat fingers and a zoomed out screen

I like a lot of posts I don't mean to!

Sproles was drafted by San Diego in 2005 he didn't go to New Orleans until 2011 and who says Duke has to take reps away from anybody? New Orleans made it work with Jimmy Graham at TE, Lance Moore, Marques Colston, and Kenny Stills at WR plus Pierre Thomas catching passes out of the backfield along with Sproles. If the O is successful enough there should be plenty of reps to go around.

History tells me that this post will probably upset you and this will turn contentious, but history also tells me that Freddie already has a history w/Duke and that he didn't utilize him all that much. Why would that change after we added OBJ?

I am not taking sides in this debate, but making such a strong projection w/out considering the recent past is a bit odd.

I stated my opinion a bit earlier on Duke and the Browns. I don't know what the Browns will do or even should do. I can see reasons for keeping him and reasons for trading him.

Hunt is out for 8 games and Duke can help during that time. His role would also increase should Chubb get hurt early on. We could be hurting if we trade Duke too early. Also, his trade value might not be so high due to his contract.

On the other hand, Duke's usage might dry up completely once Hunt is reinstated because Hunt can do everything Duke can do. And he can do it at a higher level. Duke may also become a distraction in the locker room and that would not be good for a young team.

It's hard for me to understand how people are developing such strong opinions either way because there are legitimate points on both sides of the ledger.

Like U, I can see both sides .... valid argument both ways .... but i also see a very clear and logical solution that IMO is definetly the way to go ....

For at least the first 8 games Duke is our 3rd down and our #2 back ... i don’t see how thats debatable (not that anyone’s debating it) ... and seeing as how were positioned to win the super bowl now you don’t leave yourself naked at the RB position for AT LEAST 1/2 the season .... its football, If Chubb god forbid gets hurt all of a sudden Duke still has a roll with us for the last 8 ....

IF u get to week 8 and Chubb’s still healthy ... then u see what u can get for Duke as the asking price from us should be lower as our need for him will have been mostly eliminated ....

Duke may only get 3 or 4 touches a game but as u well know EVERY TOUCH in a game is huge .... it seems some on here want to poo poo Duke’s value because of usage .... witch I don’t agree with U on when it comes to what Freddie did with him last year meaning he won’t get many touches again this year ... IMO U can throw last year out the window for a few reasons ....

- Freddie didn’t come close to installing his entire O ... no way did they have the time
- this is a much different team with much different skill position players and a much much much much different D ...
- Monken will have some input also ...

Like U, I had no idea what we were going to do ... i was hoping he’d be here for the reasons I stated above but i had no clue and would have been fine either way .... i always said it hinged on how we felt about Hilliard and what we were offered ... we obviously didn’t get offered enough ....

For now it looks like we have Duke for the first 8 weeks and thats a good thing as U can never have enough good football players and Duke is one of those ...

It was just another feeble attempt to take a shot at me cause him and device and Memphis and Deputy believe VG is overpaid .... nothing more, nothing less ... simply a shot across my bow ... they make foolish statements like CHS just did all the time to try and defend there menZaesque premise that VG is overpaid ...

Its quite amusing ...

Good post.

I do disagree w/you that you can throw last year out the window. I think last year's usage is more relevant that what Sproles did in New Orleans. LOL

I'm not positive, but I don't think Deputy is saying Landry is overpaid. He loves him some Sashi, but Dep actually knows football. I don't think he would make that statement.

U win ... *L* ....and me saying to throw last year out the window was a bit harsh .. it does have some relevance, i just don’t think its near as big a factor as u do ... and honestly part of that is because he’s still here ... *L* ...

PIT

I went and educated myself cause i wanted to be informed and not be talking out my ass like some ... ...

Dukes salary this year is 1.8 mill ... signing bonus of 750k witch is pro-rated from last year ... 400k roster and 100k workout bonus ...

So the most a team would be liable for if they traded for Duke is 2.3 million and it could be as low as 1.8 million ..... not sure where that ranks as far as the cost of aquiring RB’s goes but it sure is a hell of a lot less than the irrelivent BS ass # u threw out there ....

Thanks for motivating me to educate myself ... ...

Someone recently posted that Duke is the 11th highest paid RB in the league, per SportTrac. Pretty sure it was 11th, if not it was close.

No offense to Duke, he is a nice player, but that is ridiculous. He has never been the feature back. He is no where near the best RB on this team, and starting week 9 he will be no where near a top 2 RB on this team. Hunt is a top 5 RB in the league.

The number of touches he has had is a documented fact.

When we talk of overpaid players, Duke should be part of the conversation. It's likely the biggest factor why he is still on this team. No one wants to pick that up.

21st in team cap hit
22nd in base salary
25th in total cash for 2019
11th in average salary
17th guaranteed at signing
16th practical guaranteed
13th in overall contract value

His contract is nothing for a team that would want him. They would be responsible for the base salaries remaining and not the prorated stuff on the books for the Browns. And cutting him in 2020 would cost a team nothing compared to what teams do when cutting players and eating dead cap. At $3.6M as base for Duke in 2020, I don't see why teams would want to cut him at that salary, anyways. It's a great price for what Duke can bring to a team.

And here is what the Browns would be on the hook for if he is traded post June 1st.

2019 Dead Cap: $750,000
2020 Dead Cap: $1,500,000
2019 Cap Savings: $2,300,000

It's nothing. I don't see how anyone can make a serious argument about money being the reason Duke is here and not already traded.

Compensation being offered by other teams isn't enough? Yeah That could be a reason. Or it could be the fact Kitchens and Dorsey want him here in 2019, like they've said repeatedly. Or the Browns don't want to do anything while Hunt is suspended and leave themselves with their pants down if something were to happen to Chubb. There are more logical reasons IMO than the money route.

Duke Johnson is "over paid" until you realize that most of the good RBs in the NFL are on their rookie contracts and the market is cratered because of it. Just because he makes 4 million more than Alvin Kamara, doesn't mean you'll be able to find an Alvin Kamara quality player to come play for a million dollars a year.

I don't know if Duke's touches will go up, down, or stay the same with Kitchens as the HC but what I was trying to point out is that Sproles a similar player with similar yearly stats was being paid close to what Duke is making so there is a demand for a player like Duke and his pay is commensurate with his skill set.

Duke has been not only our best RB but also our best receiving option. Unfortunately for him this is no longer true. He is our 3rd best back and now our 5th or 6th best receiving option

I love Duke and we shouldn't give him away but it would be best for him and us if we find a trade partner and sooner the better.

I think someone mentioned this, but Haley uses primarily one back in his offense. Hue constantly said we need to get him the ball more.

Dorsey signed Duke to his current contract that some are considering as being "overpaid." Perhaps Dorsey knows Duke is a good player, but our coaches are not giving him the opportunity.

Yet he lines up in the WR position and had more receptions than carries. But keep reaching.

That is cheap for a guy with his ability... And I think he has way more ability than has been on display here...

Yes, it is cheap. And yes, I think many people think he has far better ability relative to the price and wish he was used more.

At whose expense, Chubb's? Ummm, no thanks.

At whose expense on the offense?

Is he a better RB than Chubb? Is he a better WR than Landry? OBJ? Callaway? Higgins? Is he more useful than Njoku?

Yes, he can fill in when Chubb needs a blow ..... but beyond that? There's really only minimal opportunities for him. He had 87 touches last year, and he might match that next year, as the offense gains additional plays by being more productive .... but I don't see him expanding his role a great deal.

Depth matters because injuries happen. It is likely that more than one of the guys you mentioned above will be injured next season.