Where did he rank on yards/catch, compared to the other main receivers?
Duke is a nice piece to mix into the offense, but he is not one of the top pieces. Maybe 40 or so touches, on 100 snaps is about right .... because when we add Hunt in game 9, well, then Duke has no role. Hunt is better than Duke in every single way imaginable on the football field. There is no realistic argument on this.
Last year was his least productive year, by far. It's because he was no longer a focal point of the offense. Suddenly we had other, better weapons around him. We had a QB who didn't dump off all the time. We had a workhorse, and super productive feature back. Duke was an extra, not a central piece. I don't see any realistic way that changes going forward.
Look, I like Duke, in a limited role. He's a useful player, and he doesn't whine and complain about his role. That said, he's a depth piece. He's useful, but not a prime player in terms of production. If you take any of our receivers off the field to add him to the field, you trade off higher production for lesser, and that makes no sense.
I expect that Duke will be gone by week 1 of the season. I know the team really likes Hilliard, and I suspect that we'll keep a 3rd RB on the practice squad, and wait out the 1st 8 weeks. I do think that Duke will be featured, at least somewhat, in the preseason, though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Landry? Sure get him off he field. It's fine by me. Have all WRs/Duke on the field and not Njoku? Cool. Put two backs on the field and remove either Calloway/Higgins. Cool. Spell any WR for a play or two because he has been playing a lot. Cool.
I don't understand why this is difficult for you.
It's pretty difficult, for not only most fans to see this, but for the coaching staff to see it as well.
So reducing the play of your top WR's in order to place your sixth best weapon on the field to play is something everyone should be able to see?
We have four WR's good enough to start on most NFL teams. OBJ, Landry, Calloway, and Higgins. Then we have Njoku as another of the top 5 targets. You do understand that they will have time to rest without needing a fifth WR as a substitute.
But I'm not surprised we have posters who think they know which of our players deserve playing time more than the HC does.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I disagree with your premise that Duke is our sixth best weapon, namely, but not exclusively, because our weapons are not linear and equal across all situations.
Obviously you do. But thus far the coaching staff doesn't disagree.
Evident by what tho? He asked to be traded and has been denied. That's not exactly an indicator that the coaching staff and FO believe he's not needed.
I think many are reminiscing back to the days when duke was one of our top two offensive threats. today while our threats may not be “linear and equal in all situations”, duke is at best our 6th option in the passing game and our third option in the run game. Plus both running backs ahead of duke do quite well catching passes out of the backfield. barring injury duke will be a non factor after game 9. He was a vital cog before but not any more.
I wonder how much the way we practiced played into the amount of touches Duke got. From my understanding, we didn't tackle a lot in practices. In games, it kind of showed. Nearly every time Duke got tackled he looked slightly shook up. It's hard to leave a guy like that (one who looks "hurt") in the game to get more touches. It appeared kind of like he wasn't used to the physicality. Will he get used to it if we have more physical practices?
I'm all for keeping guys healthy. However, in retrospect, it looks like Hue may have erred much too far to the side of keeping them healthy over getting them ready for the rigors of actual games.
The CBA may have played in some, but based on some of the things Haley and Kitchens said during Hard Knocks, it didn't account for the extremes we apparently went to.
It's almost like Hue was coaching scared. Injuries are going to happen. You can't wrap guys in bubble wrap all offseason and then expect them to be able to take hits. Hue knew he didn't have much margin for error, though. Chubb was unproven and a rookie. Duke was possibly our most dynamic proven weapon going into camp last year.
I'm not trying to turn this into a bash Hue deal. Just trying to look at possible unmentioned underlying reasons for Duke's touches (or lack thereof) last season.
Any former RBs/Coaches/others have opinions on the you have to get hit to get used to getting hit idea? It's been awhile, but it seems to fit my recollection. Every season it took some time to "toughen up". We hit a lot, though. Lots of Oklahoma and angle tackling drills.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I'm saying, since he has been here, he has been under utilized period.. by EVERY coach.
This is not true. I have posted the numbers for Duke in comparison to similar style backs across the NFL and Duke got more touches than any of them other than McCaffrey when Hue was calling the plays.
You're really good w/the search feature. Perhaps you could look up the posts I made about that and put those stats up here again for all to see.
I have a feeling that is one search you are not interested in. To hell w/the truth when winning an argument is the key.
Why are you making this about Hue when I said I think EVERY coach has under utilized him?
So Hue used him more than other coaches? Cool....It still wasn't enough.
I am not making it about Hue. I am saying you are wrong. Go ahead...........find the post I made that compared Duke's touches to all the backs who are similar to him. You always brag about how good you are at searching. Do it.
I mean, you do want the truth, right? You really aren't trying to deceive people, right? Go ahead and post the stats I provided on multiple occasions.
I think everyone on here knows you won't do that. I think most know your game.
Looking at how Freddie used him in the last half of last season, it appears that contribution won't be a lot within this offense.
Because of Nick Chubb. Duke Johnson didn't get put on the bench because he isn't good, he got put on the bench because Nick Chubb is a top five player at this position in the league.
Not getting the opportunity to do something and not being able to do something are not the same thing.
Reading Pit's comment there, all he mentioned was that it appears that his contribution won't be a lot within this offense. He does not mention ability, or lack of. Duke's touches went down.
Duke is a nice player, I have said that multiple times. I do not have a problem with him as a player. He is no where near Chubb in ability, and as you point out that affects his playing time. No one would feature Duke over Chubb.
Fast forward 8 games, when Hunt is available. Hunt is a top 5 NFL RB. Duke goes from a distant 2nd RB to an even more distant 3rd RB. I imagine Duke's utilization drops even more.
I am not sure I would say Duke "got put on the bench." That makes it sounds like he was a starter and then lost the starting gig. Duke was not a starter. He "spent more time on the bench."
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
He is a player who can contribute with little touches in the right spots. In space, he's got quicks. He also seems to have heart, and is willing to drop the hammer and play football.
I'd rather keep him at least until Hunt is close to returning. Injuries happen, eh?
I would not even object to keeping him as our third back after that.
Chubb still isn't a great pass blocker, but he wasn't asked to do that much in college. He might improve on it and he might not, but given the rest of his game, I don't see him on the bench much.
I disagree with that statement. After that blocked punt (which isn't past protection) Chubb scored higher than Hyde or Duke in past blocking per pff, and I don't recall him getting beat or the mention of such for the remainder of the season. It's like Diam said ... blocking is more about attitude. Chubb is a Warrior.
People keep saying who is Duke going to replace? He doesn't have to replace anybody because on 3rd or 4th down Chubb comes out and Duke goes in. Last year on 3rd down and 4th down (when we didn't punt) Chubb only touched or was targeted with the ball 11 times with 10 rushes and 1 pass thrown his way, Johnson had 38 touches/targets with 10 rushes and 28 passes thrown his way. Hunt like Chubb doesn't see the field much on 3rd or 4th down, he had 14 rushing attempts and 5 targets in the passing game.
Even with DJ. If Chubb where (God forbid) injured. Hillards role might just become the lead RB.
I agree, and we just added some backs in FA.
Last year we played a lot of max protect using 2, maybe even 3 TE sets. I think we will still do that this year as well. One of those guys can peel off as a safety valve if he doesn't have to pick up a blitz.
Duke is simply insurance at this point. Every team in the league knows he is available. Once a back goes down in camp, the Browns will get a call.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Even with DJ. If Chubb where (God forbid) injured. Hillards role might just become the lead RB.
I agree, and we just added some backs in FA.
Last year we played a lot of max protect using 2, maybe even 3 TE sets. I think we will still do that this year as well. One of those guys can peel off as a safety valve if he doesn't have to pick up a blitz.
Duke is simply insurance at this point. Every team in the league knows he is available. Once a back goes down in camp, the Browns will get a call.
I agree ... and I think that is how to get the most value in return. Case in point Carlos Hyde.
I wonder how much the way we practiced played into the amount of touches Duke got. From my understanding, we didn't tackle a lot in practices. In games, it kind of showed. Nearly every time Duke got tackled he looked slightly shook up. It's hard to leave a guy like that (one who looks "hurt") in the game to get more touches. It appeared kind of like he wasn't used to the physicality. Will he get used to it if we have more physical practices?
I'm all for keeping guys healthy. However, in retrospect, it looks like Hue may have erred much too far to the side of keeping them healthy over getting them ready for the rigors of actual games.
The CBA may have played in some, but based on some of the things Haley and Kitchens said during Hard Knocks, it didn't account for the extremes we apparently went to.
It's almost like Hue was coaching scared. Injuries are going to happen. You can't wrap guys in bubble wrap all offseason and then expect them to be able to take hits. Hue knew he didn't have much margin for error, though. Chubb was unproven and a rookie. Duke was possibly our most dynamic proven weapon going into camp last year.
I'm not trying to turn this into a bash Hue deal. Just trying to look at possible unmentioned underlying reasons for Duke's touches (or lack thereof) last season.
Any former RBs/Coaches/others have opinions on the you have to get hit to get used to getting hit idea? It's been awhile, but it seems to fit my recollection. Every season it took some time to "toughen up". We hit a lot, though. Lots of Oklahoma and angle tackling drills.
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see Freddie's take here in TC when it comes to player participation and intensity
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
6. One of the reasons the Browns could trade Johnson is Dontrell Hilliard. The Browns front office is run by scouts at heart, meaning they love to find undrafted players who contribute. Hilliard made the team in that capacity last season. Listed at 5-11, 202 pounds, he showed up having added 10 more pounds and seems faster.
7. Nick Chubb is the starter. Kareem Hunt was eye-popping in various drills, but he’s suspended for the first eight games. Johnson is sitting out. Hilliard has a chance to get noticed, and he’s doing exactly that.
i havent seen such a marginal player debated since Kenny Britt. on the list of most talented players on the Browns,Duke isnt even top 15 if you rated them. yeah he catches the ball but does nothing after the catch. Dorsey has upgraded the talent level all over the roster. sorry this isnt 2016 or 2017. Duke can be replaced. its not that hard.
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