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If everything goes perfectly then Antonio Callaway is the player that allows us to force Jarvis Landry into a massive paycut (or to not on the team anymore) after the 2020 season (also known as "Myles gets his bag").

Nothing goes perfectly.

This is not true.

This is what I was thinking earlier in the thread. Higgins and Callaway are draft picks and young. Jarvis and Odell are FAs and expensive. The development of both leads to a situation that if either of the two FAs leave, a good replacement is in the wings. Team building at its finest. Willies and Ratley are part of this too. Depth, something we have not had since the return.

I would like to add, that Chubb, IMO, with a year under his belt and a whole season as the starter could easily be one of the top backs in the league, if not the best. This kid is truly old school. I think he is going to be a big star in this league..

Chubb and Hunt. Mack and Byner. I'm hoping that history repeats itself.

Wasn't sure where to put this, but....




I like this. Posters making fun of me and twisting my words around will not change my mind about Baker. In fact, they only reinforce my opinions.

However, Baker can change my opinion by saying the right things and acting like a man instead of a spoiled brat.

I really liked his mother's day message and I really like that he gets what Tom Brady is about.

Progress.

Jarvis Landry is a very good slot receiver (he was in the slot 70% of his snaps in 2018). Slot receivers, while valuable, are the easiest receiver position to fill.

I think Higgins and Callaway can develop to the point where they can play all the receiver positions and not just the slot/outside successfully.

I believe Landry is overrated but is a necessary component to our teams success in 2019. Beyond 2019, at his current salary, Landry is going to have a hard team being more valuable than both Callaway and Higgins.

Right. As a slot receiver. He is a very good slot receiver. I am glad to have him on the team.

OBJ had 400 more yards and more TDs than Landry in those first four seasons with 87 less receptions (and 17 less games). I am taking that outside receiver production over the slot production every time. Luckily this year we get to have both.

I guess you could say he's growing up. For the sake of the Browns and all of us fans let's hope so.

I see a lot in Callaway, and wouldn't have a problem thinking he could be #1 on the team, but that doesn't take away from OBJ or Landry,

OBJ and Landry have been there, they know what it takes, Callaway is young and I don't think I have to say has potential, He's beyond potential already I believe,
I mean, I think Callaway "could" be #1, already, but he hasn't proven it yet, so by "that" we can't say it yet.

And that doesn't mean OBJ or Landry took any steps back or lost anything, I just feel I see "that much" out of Callaway, already.

Higgans, Higgans is really good, and all last year he got better, he's able to win games as the #1 option, He got cut, and had a chance to come back, at one point, and really took advantage by making big strides in production with what little opportunity he had, That means, he's got the ability to be great and he outlasted Louis, and Jordan Payton, I think Higgans demonstrated abilities to get open and be dynamic.

If Baker keeps making Willies look better than I expected, each time they take the field together, even though I keep expecting more, then I don't know what the ceiling is, for Willies, it could be real high, I think I'd like to see.

Ratley got a little better last year by the end than the start, I wasn't his fan, but he made plays for the Browns and I'm a fan of that.

Njoku needs to stay healthy and get used more, he's above the others, and The Browns need to take advantage of his play as an asset. The other Tight ends need to contribute too, but the challenger to Njoku isn't on the team yet, I think.

Willies could be the biggest sleeper on the team, but if he gets the opportunity to show it, I think, is still up in the air.
Same with Duke, Same with a couple people.

If Seth DeValve, only gets one play, and one thing he's allowed to do, but he goes out and executes it 19 times in two games, and for whatever reason defenses can't or don't stop it, or don't mind it so much,
Then he looks like a great player,

But if he (or someone), never gets that call and the team doesn't make that play, and he stays on the bench mostly or takes blocking only roles, then he's still the same great player, but just doesn't look like it as much
Put players in position to succeed, and have a role for everybody,

What am I talking about, what was the subject again?

Not sure how it reinforces your opinion. You have been mostly wrong about Baker from the start.

I believe Baker is misunderstood by many. I don't believe he's immature and I don't believe he needs to "grow uo." I hope he never changes.

Not all receptions are created equal. OBJ averaged two more yards per reception over his first four years than Landry. Also, in that time span despite playing 17 less games OBJ had 204 catches compared to Landry's 220. That means 242 of OBJ's 313 receptions ended in a first down or touchdown while 242 of Landry's 400 receptions ended in a first down or touchdown.

Here's the best part. Slot receivers are important and great to have on your team. Outside receivers are more important and even better to have on your team (OBJ can also lineup inside which is just icing on the cake). We get to have both Landry (the slot receiver) and OBJ (the outside receiver) who are both among the best at what they do!

(I just wanted add that Landry's durability is also a skill. He doesn't miss time and that is immensely valuable.)

How many times do we have to have the Landry argument? None of us are changing our minds. I am not going to go through it all again. I am just saying that you are wrong about Callaway and Higgens being better than Landry.

You should try and learn to comprehend the written word before you make such statements. Read what I wrote again.

The fact he thinks being a slot receiver somehow diminishes Landry’s skill is all u really need to know .... some folks understand numbers better cause they don’t really understand the game ... here’s your proof of that ....

I love how he spends time crafting his argument picking out those stats that prove his point WHILE IGNORING so many other stats and making believe that playing with Ryan Tanneyhill fresh out of college and Jake Cutler is the same as playing with Eli ... VARIABLES DON’T MATTER .... *LOL* ...

I wonder if CFR realizes that OBJ has way better numbers than most and its possibly a reflection on why he’s considered one of if not the best WR’s in the league .... I bet if i picked out the right stats I could make Hop and Julio’s #’s look as pedestrian as VG’s ...

VG is a top 10 paid WR in this league for a reason .... and its not cause he’s simply a slot receiver its cause he’s a football player and ONE HELL OF A PLAYMAKER!!!!

At least cfr’s sharp enough to be glad he’s on our team ....

Speaking of that...you should go back and re-read what cfrs ACTUALLY wrote regarding Calloway/Higgins/Landry...talk about twisting words.

You were over-the-top in your critique and dislike for Baker...yet he has proven you wrong over and over and over. Rather than own it, you are setting yourself up by suddenly saying a "good" thing about him while whining about what he did - or didn't - do this off-season. As if any of us know what he really did or didn't do. The first errant throw he makes will elicit your "I must be seen as being right" disease to kick in and we will have to read about it again...even though it too will be full of unknown assumptions. We will see that his footwork got a little off, and you will turn that into him being a bad guy for not working publicly with a guru on his footwork. You'll get bashed for it, claim someone called you a liar and play "victim". Groundhog Day...only not nearly as funny,

You blasted the folks who believed in Baker from the get-go and you were particularly harsh against a particular poster's opinion...an opinion that was spot on. It's going to be a long decade or so for you with this new FQB on our team.

You're a swell guy.

Just curious ....

How did you come to the conclusion of OBJ and VG both having created 242 first downs or touchdowns with their respective number of catches? ...

Did u look it up and that is factual or did u just use math and those numbers aren’t factual? ... don’t worry, its not to help me craft a rebuttal to your nonsensical premise ... i’m just curious as to where those numbers came from and if there obj’s and VG’s actual numbers ...

Ty dawg ...

Just keeping it real.

Yes you are.

Sorry but grabbing your crotch and flipping people off mid game is an immature act. It just is. It really can’t be argued.
Now. Has it effected Baker’s game? No. Does it relate back to his fiery personality? Yes. Does that fire work for him? Yes.
But it’s still immature. Baker. No Baker. Wouldn’t matter who was doing it. It’s immature for a professional to do. Period.

Another cool thing these two share .... its like this stuff is destiny .... and the best part is their both on our team .....

https://www.thephinsider.com/2017/1/2/14...rst-three-years

Jarvis Landry sets NFL record for most receptions in first three year - with Odell Beckham Jr.

Seems pretty fitting that they tied.

Miami Dolphins wide receiver Jarvis Landry holds the record for the most receptions in a player’s first two seasons in the NFL, a record he set at the end of last season. As this season unfolded, Landry was chased by his former LSU teammate and friend Odell Beckham, Jr., of the New York Giants, for the record for most receptions in a player’s first three seasons. Heading into Week 17, Beckham pulled ahead with a four-reception lead.

Landry caught nine passes in a Week 17 early game, then had to wait to see if Beckham would pass him to claim the record. In the late afternoon game, Beckham caught five passes.

That gives Landry a total of 288 career receptions through three years.

That gives Beckham a total of 288 career receptions through three years.

Yeah, the two players who consider the other his brother have exactly the same number of receptions through their first three years in the league, setting the new NFL record.

Landry’s 288 career receptions come with 3,051 yards, a 10.6 yards per catch average, and 13 touchdowns. He set a career high with 12.1 yards per catch in 2016, catching 94 passes for 1,136 yards with four touchdowns. The 94 receptions are the second most for a single season in Dolphins history, trailing just Landry’s 110 receptions in 2015. He also holds the sixth most receptions in a season from his 2014 campaign, which set the team record for a rookie.

Beckham’s 288 receptions come with 4,122 yards, a 14.3 yards per catch average, and 35 touchdowns. He set a career high with 101 receptions this season, recording 1,367 yards with 10 touchdowns. He holds the second-, third-, and fourth-most receptions in a single season in Giants history and has increased his receptions in each year of his career.

Beckham and Landry are currently tied for 17th in career receptions in a player’s first four seasons, trailing Anquan Boldin by 54 receptions. They are only 138 receptions short of Larry Fitzgerald’s five-year mark.

Total receptions is one of the most overrated stats in the NFL. It means next to nothing unless you are playing PPR in fantasy football and can account simply for being a favored/targeted WR by the QB, the only option a QB has relative to other players, or someone a coach targets for designed plays. Here is what that resulted in for Landry:

120th in yards per reception in 2014
103rd in yards per reception in 2015
69th in yards per reception in 2016 (big leap!!)

Odell, during this same time period, was far superior.

In 2018, both Higgins (24th) and Calloway (38th) did better in this stat compared to Landry. I think this is one of the reasons people like the upward trajectory of Higgins and Calloway over Landry.

One more thing on Higgins-- he was 14th in the AFC for first down % per reception (69.2%).

It was presenting a possibility, not making a statement.

If the "might" and "if" weren't there, you might have a point.

*shrug*

I've heard Callaway and Higgins have both looked good so far, while Landry has been dinged up off to the side. That wouldn't appear to make the possibility of Landry getting surpassed less likely.

Is it very likely? Probably not, but I think it's within the realm of possibility.

....I'm ready to see how the ball gets spread around already. The season can't get here soon enough so that we all can stop speculating.

How many professionals are paid to play a game, though?

How many professionals have screaming fans guzzling beers in their "offices?"

It's not really a professional setting is it?

It's much more of an emotional one and the crowd's "emotion" can effect the players. Mob (group not mafia) mentality is a real thing. People do things in groups they wouldn't do alone.

I don't expect that Baker would do the things he does on the field in a board room. I expect "professionals" might get a bit carried away if they were on the field in front of a raucous crowd with thousands of people chanting their names.

Most professionals don't get every "mistake" they make blown up by the media.

Most professionals aren't still in the first half of their 20s.

His maturity seems just about fine when you look at it with those things in mind in my opinion.

J/C

If Landry is our least effective receiver, we are in pretty darn good shape.

We shouldn't be bickering, we should be high fiving and slapping each other on the back and not the face.

JMO

Higgins has 72 catches for 961 yards and 4 TDs in his career. He also has 1 rushing attempt for 4 yards.

Jarvis Landry has more catches in every single year he has played that Higgins has in his entire career. Landry also has more yards in every single season except his rookie year than Higgins has in his career. He still had 758 yards in his rookie season. Landry has 22 more TDs than Higgins has. Landry has another 179 yards on the ground. He can also throw the football. We saw that last year when he threw a bomb that resulted in a 50 yard gain.



Callaway had a decent rookie year w/43 receptions for 586 yards and 5 TDs. Landry has beat those numbers in each of his 5 seasons.

Links:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HiggRa00.htm

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/16790/jarvis-landry

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CallAn00.htm

Everyone is entitled to your opinion, but I don't think there is much evidence to support an opinion that Landry might end up being our 4th WR.

Jarvis Landry is highly regarded in NFL circles. It gets tiring to see a few posters on a Brown's message board either downplay or even disrespect his accomplishments on the football field.

And I haven't even touched their values in the locker room, practice field or their leadership abilities.

Landry is a flat out STUD. And he's appropriately paid for said STUDDOM.

Maybe someday,, but not this year.. They have a LONNNNNNNNNG way to go

ty sir ...

Dang .... u went through and took the time to add all the years up ... good for u ...

Thanks again for the reply ...

He’s just a slot receiver Vers ... get over your infatuation of the overpriced bum ..... there a dime a dozen ... very little value to a team ... hell Duke could replace him and we’d barely miss a beat according to a few of the menZas that know way more about football than us ....

I mean Memphis has the be all end all stat of YPC and that definetly proves what a bum VG is ... it proves beyond a shadow of the doubt that VG is a BUM and both Calloway and Higgins have the potential to be better than him (IMO Calloway does have to potential ... Higgins has NO SHOT ... he simply doesn’t hve the skill set to) ...

I mean YPC is all that matters ... it far outweighs the total number of catches a player had in determining how good a player may or may not be ... getting a lot of catches is simply luck and has nothing to do with skill level ... most QB’s just randomly pick who to throw to and could care less about a receivers ability to get open or how good they are ... VG and OBJ did nothing special breaking all the catch total records for newbies .... ...

and if that ONE SINGLE STAT wasn’t enough in Higgins case ... he was 14th in first down % per catch .... that wasn’t 14th in catches for first downs ... its 14th in first downs % per catch ... witch totally eliminates total catches and thats why Memphis is brilliant cause he realizes the total number of catches someone has really is no indicator of how good they are ... ITS IRRELIVENT ... YPC and the % of your catches that go for first downs are MUCH MUCH BETTER INDICATORS ...

I’m still trying to figure out why VG was franchised and Higgins was only given a 5th round tender .... they must not be privy to Memphis’s very Sashiesque way of thinking .... i wonder if Sashi let Memphis present his YPC and % of catches going for first down theory on his last podcast .... ....

I would be exceedingly happy if Higgins and Callaway surpass Landry in a couple years as well, but that would take a lot of work and a bit of luck.

Don't get me wrong, I like them both and I fully acknowledge Landry is over paid but he is still a top 5 WR2 (and a top 20 or better overall WR)

I anticipate Landry returning to his 2015-2016 form once he is back to being the WR2 he excels at. His Yards per target plummeted the last two years primarily because he didn't have an established 2nd presence out there with him I believe (gasp* opinions).

j/c

Callaway has something Landry will never have with his blazing speed. Landry has everything else and does them better than Callaway at the moment - and maybe forever...they are the same size. I could see Callaway developing to be a "better" WR than Landry due to his ridiculous speed provided he continues to improve in other areas.

Higgins is taller but doesn't strike me as being any longer overall than Landry. He may be faster, but I'd wager not MUCH faster. Once again, Landry has everything else and does them better than Higgins at the moment - and maybe forever. I could see Higgins developing into a carbon-copy of Landry...but maybe slightly less-effective as a slot guy and a slightly more-effective as an outside guy.

If ANY of those three guys are seen as being our 4th best WR, we are in tremendous shape there.

Cleveland Browns: A spotlight on young players who stood out at OTAs – Terry Pluto
Updated 7:15 AM; Today 5:00 AM

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/05...erry-pluto.html

ABOUT THE BROWNS

I talked to some people who watched some of the OTAs not open to the media. I’m going to take you into the minds of the decision makers, and how they view these workouts.

As Freddie Kitchens stressed, it’s important for the players to be at the voluntary OTAs, but it’s not mandatory. While the media tends to dwell on Odell Beckham Jr. not being there and if Duke Johnson will be traded, the Browns don’t agonize about veterans. The spotlight is on the young players and the guys who have a shot to make the roster. They are not the big names.

With that in mind, here we go:

1. The three starting cornerbacks – Denzel Ward, Terrance Mitchell and TJ Carrie (covering slot receivers) – have been impressive. It’s a sign of progress that second-round pick Greedy Williams doesn’t have to start.

2. One of the goals of the front office was to add depth at cornerback because Ward (concussions) and Mitchell (broken wrist) were hurt last year. The 6-foot-2 Williams is lanky, fast and a natural at the position. He could beat out someone by the time the season opens.

3. Defensive back Lenzy Pipkins got into a brief fight with wide receiver Derrick Willies when the media was there. Both are having good camps. Pipkins played 12 games for Green Bay in 2017. Assistant GMs Alonzo Highsmith and Eliot Wolf were in the Packers’ front office back then. They like him.

4. The Browns want to pile up the cornerbacks. They also have Philip Gaines (6-year veteran) and Tavierre Thomas, who can help on special teams. Seventh-rounder Donnie Lewis is recovering from a foot injury. New defensive coordinator Steve Wilks liked him before the draft.

5. The Browns believe the 6-foot-4 Willies was emerging as a viable NFL receiver when he fractured his collarbone early in the season. Quarterback Baker Mayfield developed some chemistry with Willies in training camp last year. He caught three passes for 61 yards in the regular season before he was hurt.

6. One of the reasons the Browns could trade Johnson is Dontrell Hilliard. The Browns front office is run by scouts at heart, meaning they love to find undrafted players who contribute. Hilliard made the team in that capacity last season. Listed at 5-11, 202 pounds, he showed up having added 10 more pounds and seems faster.

7. Nick Chubb is the starter. Kareem Hunt was eye-popping in various drills, but he’s suspended for the first eight games. Johnson is sitting out. Hilliard has a chance to get noticed, and he’s doing exactly that.

8. One of Wilks’ defensive schemes is called “Buffalo Nickel.” It comes from the Carolina Panthers, where Wilks was an assistant. One variation has a safety really close to the line of scrimmage. At his introductory press conference, Wilks mentioned a special role for Jabrill Peppers. That was it. Peppers has since been traded.

9. Veteran Morgan Burnett, cut by the Steelers in April after requesting his release, is the obvious choice to start at strong safety. But the Browns have been intrigued by Jermaine Whitehead in that role. Another former Packer (2017), Whitehead played 24 games in that last two years. I keep hearing, “Don’t ignore this guy.”

10. The Browns have a lot of tight ends – David Njoku, Demetrius Harris and Seth DeValve are the top three. Njoku and Harris would probably receive the most playing time. Harris is a superb blocker. DeValve has been with the team since 2016, and has to prove he can stay healthy.

11. Tight end Orson Charles was praised last year for his work as blocker. Browns tight end coach John Lilly coached Charles at Georgia, where he caught 45 passes in his final season. That could open a door for Charles to do more for the Browns.

12. But here’s the longshot, a scout’s favorite: Brush High product Pharaoh Brown, who was a blue chip recruit and played at Oregon. In 2015, he suffered a leg injury so gruesome doctors nearly amputated it, and that led to him being undrafted. Cleveland signed Brown (6-6, 258) to the practice squad last September and activated him, but he suffered a shoulder injury in December. The Browns want to see more of him.

13. While former offensive line coach Bob Wylie was entertaining and a star of the 2018 edition of HBO’s “Hard Knocks” last summer, the Browns believe James Campen is a significant upgrade. Campen was the Packers’ offensive line coach for 11 seasons. The Browns consider him to be an impact hire. Wylie has not yet caught on with another team.

14. During rookie/free agent camp, Kitchens said: "I will say this about our offensive line – this may be the best group in this setting, the minicamp, tryout guys, free agent guys – this is the best offensive line I have ever been a part of. I have been in the league 13 years. I have never seen a group collectively this good. We can actually function on offense, and sometimes in this kind of camp setting, that is hard to do.”

15. Campen is working sixth-round pick Drew Forbes at tackle and guard. Kendall Lamm is receiving a lot of work at both tackle positions. Bryan Witzmann is working at both guard spots and at right tackle. Eric Kush is working at center and guard. None of them is expected to start, but Campen is stressing depth and flexibility with backups.

16. The Browns don’t want an injury to any of their starting linemen to sidetrack the season and lead to an injury to Mayfield. Austin Corbett will receive the first chance to replace Kevin Zeitler at right guard, but the Browns signed veterans Witzmann and Kush as fall-backs.

17. Here’s another name: Chad Thomas, a defensive end and the team’s third-round pick in 2018. He was injured in training camp. Former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams never warmed to Thomas, and the front office was frustrated that the Miami product didn’t receive more than 22 snaps.

18. The Browns think the Thomas can help against the run and pass. He has a fresh start with Wilks and new defensive line coach Tosh Lupoi.

19. I was told Mayfield has looked very sharp. For the front office and coaching staff, it’s comforting not to go into all these workouts having to figure out who could possibly become a long-term starter at QB.

20. I will be speaking at the Uniontown Library (Lake Community) on June 4 at 6 p.m. I will be at the Lakewood Library on June 13 at 7 p.m. Both events are free.

Higgins may be and i mean may be faster than VG ... i don’t think so but he may be ... VG has above average speed he’s just not a burner .... like u pointed out its what separates him from a guy like Calloway if Calloway can learn to do all the other stuff as good as VG .... that extra gear is the only difference between VG and AB ... the only difference ... some may not realize this .... VG returned punts and maybe even kick off early on in his career ... he returned a punt or two for a TD ... he’s got some speed, just not elite ...

but where VG is head and shoulders above him and always will be is quickness and hands .... he’s very very quick ... Higgins isn’t ... u can’t teach that .... Higgins can get quicker and better but he simply doesn’t ahve the feet and hips VG does .... VG is simply more physically gifted in that regard .....

And Higgins has very good hands but Landry’s are elite ... his hands are HUGE ... the circus catches guys like him and OBJ and Hop can make on a consistent basis require huge ass hands and VG has them ... anyone can make them once in awhile .... to do it consistently ... it almost always takes big hands .... i don’t even know how big hops or obj’s hands are ... if i’m Wrong i’ll Know real soon ... *L* ...

I’m not sure what happened this year with VG ... he had more drop this year than he did his first 5 combined ... i watched every game he played with the fish ... he caught my eye from his first game .... and one of the reasons was he NEVER EVER DROPPED the ball ... not only did he have some drops this year but he had way to many of them ....

And i would LOVE for both Higgins and Calloway to surpass VG .... as Peen said .... we’d be in pretty dang good shape if that happened and we all ready have the best room in the league ... ...

LOVING these discussions over the old ones .... its so nice to finally be talking about who has the most upside as opposed how bad they are ...

Again, you are making things up.....No one is claiming Landry is a bum. Stop making up crap. Your posts are terrible enough and written like a 3 year old that we don't need lies mixed in as well.

YPC isn't all that matters but it is an important stat. Yards per catch, within it, can tell us:

- Yards after the catch
- Air yards
- Insight into certain routes ran over others as a result of bigger plays
- Most likely above average speed of a WR

Just to name a few. It encompasses much more than just a number for a player.

Do better.