Defensive lineman Olivier Vernon addressed the media immediately addressed the media following OTA practice on May 15, 2019. Oliver discusses his trade to the Browns, his fit with the team and being back in a 4-3 defense.
Head coach Freddie Kitchens addressed the media immediately following OTA practice on May 15, 2019. Freddie discusses the team's first OTA practice, the new additions to the team and surprising a local high school football team with new Xenith helmets.
Running back Nick Chubb addressed the media on May 15, 2019 to discuss the Browns 2019 rushing attack and more.
He is. He worked out in a gym instead of working w/a qb coach this offseason. I think that was a mistake.
A few people joked about the pass he threw to OBJ at the OTAs, but you can see his lead foot stride way too far to the left and the pass was inaccurate.
This was the exact area I was hoping he would work on this off-season. Of course, he said something like he did not need a broom sweeper on a beach to teach him how to throw a football.
The best news from the interviews in my opinion is:
Both Freddie and Baker were asked about Callaway. All the attention of course focused on Odell and Jarvis.
Freddie said he is in much better shape and was basically crisp and looked ready to go.
Baker, not quoting him but he was complimentary of Callaway (AC).
When we drafted him I didn't know a thing about him. Did research on his story and watched game tape. He also was a returner.
Right off I could see the talent. He had that good open field movement that was natural. He has got moves. During the season I could see corners were struggling against him. He started out behind but his talent caught up.
I have high hopes for him. I was glad to hear the positive reports about him.
Generally speaking, I don't really care if someone is attending volunteer OTAs or not. Of course if I had the choice, then yes I want everyone there but it's not the end of the world.
However, when I see this (highlighted part):
Quote:
“Listen, I have never disputed the fact that it is not important for him to be here, but it is also also important for him to be mentally ready to be here. I’m not giving him an out by any stretch of imagination, and nobody here knows the conversations that Odell and I have. I’m just saying it is better for him to be here when he can present his best self – emotionally, physically, everything. Odell Beckham is going to be here in the fall, and he is going to be a good football player in the fall just like he has been.”
I can't help but think there could be more to these particular points, especially when Freddie that same quote mentions the conversations he had OBJ have had. I'm not going to get too hot and bothered by it, but I did a double-take when first reading this.
At this time last year, Antonio Callaway was fresh off a year-plus hiatus from football. The talent was evident, but there was understandably some rust to overcome.
As the first week of Browns OTAs came to a close Thursday, it was evident just how far Callaway has come and how much potential remains after a rookie season in which he led the team in receiving touchdowns and finished third in yards.
No matter who was talking Wednesday, the answers about Callaway’s development made it clear how much of a better spot he’s in one year after Cleveland made him a fourth-round pick.
“He is in good shape relative to what he was in last year during training camp. He has added some explosiveness,” Browns coach Freddie Kitchens said Wednesday. “He has been catching the ball really well. He is doing a good job. Just like everybody else, he has to continue. It is what can you do for me tomorrow, not today; today is over. “
Tomorrow is more promising than it’s been in a long while for Cleveland’s wide receiving corps. The acquisition of All-Pro Odell Beckham Jr. was the cherry on top for a group that showed significant improvement in 2018, spearheaded by Beckham’s best friend, Jarvis Landry, who was similarly acquired via trade.
Callaway’s rookie season had its ups and downs, and the Week 3 trade of Josh Gordon put more on his plate than many envisioned considering all of the time he spent away from football. He was at his best near the end of the season and finished with 43 catches, 586 yards and five touchdowns, catching the last of Baker Mayfield’s NFL rookie record 27 touchdown passes.
An improved version of Callaway only helps a Cleveland offense that hopes to be even more potent than it was during the second half of last season, when it was one of the league’s most efficient and entertaining units.
“It’s kind of pick your poison now,” Mayfield said. “We have some pretty good talent all around – tight ends, running backs, receivers and then going in with the same offensive line. We have a good team. Now, it is what are we going to do with it.”
It's crazy to think it, but Callaway and Higgins are probably two of the biggest sleepers in the WR room. With so much attention being given to what Odell & Landry mean, it is going to be super exciting and entertaining to see to what degree Callaway & Higgins can shine.
And, heck... then there is still Ratley and Willies, too. Those guys got a little experience last year and are having their first full offseason, too. We might actually have a WR room where absolutely no rookies are able to make the squad due to the talent level in the room.
Honestly, Callaway has as much talent as just about anybody else's #2 WR, and he'll be a #3/4 ... he played last year after not playing an entire season and having no experience ... he should be a very good WR granted he stays on the path
Jarvis Landry might be our fourth best wide receiver if Higgins and Callaway develop more. Jarvis Landry is not bad.
I think Higgins & Callaway need to start doing the hand drills that Landry & OBJ do before they can leap ahead of Landry.
Granted, both Landry & OBJ have freakishly large hands, but they also work on using them a LOT. They've built and developed the hand strength, dexterity, and reflexes to do those crazy one-handed grabs that make our eyes pop.... and make DBs drop F-bombs. If Higgins & Callaway develop that aspect of their craft to go along with their explosiveness and route running and awareness, then it won't be long at all before Landry is #4.
Callaway has a shot ... i think he has a shot to become a true #1 ... he could be special ...
Higgins IMO has no shot at ever being as good much less better than VG ... he doesn’t have the quicks ... VG is not blazing fast but he is quick and is very quick in and out of his breaks .... Higgins is just a tall guy .... and this is not a slam on Higgins .... i like him, i think most on here over rate him but i still like him ... VG is very good ... hes not a true #1 but he’s right there ..... he’s a PLAYMAKER thats top 15 in this league ....
I want to start a thread where we compare are receiver unit to the DB units in our division.
Teams will have their hands full and that is no joke.
U should ... u could do a series .... and include the top AFC teams just not our division ...
D-coordinators are gonna have nightmares the week before they play us ... dude from Tennessee is gonna either have a head full of gray hair or have no hair at all by September ... *L* ...
I can’t wait dawg ... i am soooooo excited ... even more than i could have imagined before FA started and ya’all know how excited i was then ... *L* ....
Made a statement awhile back that Callaway has "the potential" to be like Antonio Brown.
But that is up to him.
I was thrilled to hear the positive remarks from Freddie and Baker in regards to Callaway.
Just the basic three wide set with Jarvis and Odell is going to put AC in single or zone coverage. Depending on the pattern with no safety over top because of Odell. Callaway will draw a weaker guy.
Baker trusts AC. And that will grow over the camp this year.
If everything goes perfectly then Antonio Callaway is the player that allows us to force Jarvis Landry into a massive paycut (or to not on the team anymore) after the 2020 season (also known as "Myles gets his bag").
If everything goes perfectly then Antonio Callaway is the player that allows us to force Jarvis Landry into a massive paycut (or to not on the team anymore) after the 2020 season (also known as "Myles gets his bag").
Nothing goes perfectly.
This is what I was thinking earlier in the thread. Higgins and Callaway are draft picks and young. Jarvis and Odell are FAs and expensive. The development of both leads to a situation that if either of the two FAs leave, a good replacement is in the wings. Team building at its finest. Willies and Ratley are part of this too. Depth, something we have not had since the return.
I would like to add, that Chubb, IMO, with a year under his belt and a whole season as the starter could easily be one of the top backs in the league, if not the best. This kid is truly old school. I think he is going to be a big star in this league..
Chubb and Hunt. Mack and Byner. I'm hoping that history repeats itself.
Baker Mayfield: 'It's an honor' to be around Patriots QB Tom Brady
Nick Goss,NBC Sports Boston Thu, May 16 12:09 PM EDT
Baker Mayfield: 'It's an honor' to be around Patriots QB Tom Brady originally appeared on nbcsportsboston.com
Baker Mayfield is one of the best young quarterbacks in the NFL, and the Cleveland Browns star is following the example of the greatest player ever to suit up at the position.
Mayfield and New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady have hung out a few times since Mayfield was selected No. 1 overall by the Browns in the 2018 NFL Draft. They had a scene together in the "NFL 100" commercial during Super Bowl LIII, and the two QBs also hung out at the Kentucky Derby earlier this month.
The 22-year-old quarterback was asked Wednesday about his time spent with Brady, and he had nothing but praise for the six-time Super Bowl champion.
"Just being around the greatest of all time, it's just an honor to be around him," Mayfield said. "And then how he is with his teammates, the guys he's played with, how they speak so highly of him. You don't really talk about football in those situations, but how he treats everybody, how he handles himself. I think it's just some of the better examples on how to go through life. He does it all right."
Mayfield is an outspoken quarterback, and sometimes his actions and/or comments rub some people the wrong way. There's no questino he's very talented, has a burning desire to win and wants to improve every single day. There are a lot of different players to follow and learn from, and none of them set a better example than Brady.
The Browns should feel good about the development of their franchise player if he's following the work ethic and advice of Brady.
Jarvis Landry might be our fourth best wide receiver if Higgins and Callaway develop more.
This is not true.
Jarvis Landry is a very good slot receiver (he was in the slot 70% of his snaps in 2018). Slot receivers, while valuable, are the easiest receiver position to fill.
I think Higgins and Callaway can develop to the point where they can play all the receiver positions and not just the slot/outside successfully.
I believe Landry is overrated but is a necessary component to our teams success in 2019. Beyond 2019, at his current salary, Landry is going to have a hard team being more valuable than both Callaway and Higgins.
Landry in his first four years set the record for most receptions ever.
Right. As a slot receiver. He is a very good slot receiver. I am glad to have him on the team.
OBJ had 400 more yards and more TDs than Landry in those first four seasons with 87 less receptions (and 17 less games). I am taking that outside receiver production over the slot production every time. Luckily this year we get to have both.
I see a lot in Callaway, and wouldn't have a problem thinking he could be #1 on the team, but that doesn't take away from OBJ or Landry,
OBJ and Landry have been there, they know what it takes, Callaway is young and I don't think I have to say has potential, He's beyond potential already I believe, I mean, I think Callaway "could" be #1, already, but he hasn't proven it yet, so by "that" we can't say it yet.
And that doesn't mean OBJ or Landry took any steps back or lost anything, I just feel I see "that much" out of Callaway, already.
Higgans, Higgans is really good, and all last year he got better, he's able to win games as the #1 option, He got cut, and had a chance to come back, at one point, and really took advantage by making big strides in production with what little opportunity he had, That means, he's got the ability to be great and he outlasted Louis, and Jordan Payton, I think Higgans demonstrated abilities to get open and be dynamic.
If Baker keeps making Willies look better than I expected, each time they take the field together, even though I keep expecting more, then I don't know what the ceiling is, for Willies, it could be real high, I think I'd like to see.
Ratley got a little better last year by the end than the start, I wasn't his fan, but he made plays for the Browns and I'm a fan of that.
Njoku needs to stay healthy and get used more, he's above the others, and The Browns need to take advantage of his play as an asset. The other Tight ends need to contribute too, but the challenger to Njoku isn't on the team yet, I think.
Willies could be the biggest sleeper on the team, but if he gets the opportunity to show it, I think, is still up in the air. Same with Duke, Same with a couple people.
If Seth DeValve, only gets one play, and one thing he's allowed to do, but he goes out and executes it 19 times in two games, and for whatever reason defenses can't or don't stop it, or don't mind it so much, Then he looks like a great player,
But if he (or someone), never gets that call and the team doesn't make that play, and he stays on the bench mostly or takes blocking only roles, then he's still the same great player, but just doesn't look like it as much Put players in position to succeed, and have a role for everybody,
What am I talking about, what was the subject again?
Slot or not receptions count. They are positive plays.
Not all receptions are created equal. OBJ averaged two more yards per reception over his first four years than Landry. Also, in that time span despite playing 17 less games OBJ had 204 catches compared to Landry's 220. That means 242 of OBJ's 313 receptions ended in a first down or touchdown while 242 of Landry's 400 receptions ended in a first down or touchdown.
Here's the best part. Slot receivers are important and great to have on your team. Outside receivers are more important and even better to have on your team (OBJ can also lineup inside which is just icing on the cake). We get to have both Landry (the slot receiver) and OBJ (the outside receiver) who are both among the best at what they do!
(I just wanted add that Landry's durability is also a skill. He doesn't miss time and that is immensely valuable.)
How many times do we have to have the Landry argument? None of us are changing our minds. I am not going to go through it all again. I am just saying that you are wrong about Callaway and Higgens being better than Landry.
The fact he thinks being a slot receiver somehow diminishes Landry’s skill is all u really need to know .... some folks understand numbers better cause they don’t really understand the game ... here’s your proof of that ....
I love how he spends time crafting his argument picking out those stats that prove his point WHILE IGNORING so many other stats and making believe that playing with Ryan Tanneyhill fresh out of college and Jake Cutler is the same as playing with Eli ... VARIABLES DON’T MATTER .... *LOL* ...
I wonder if CFR realizes that OBJ has way better numbers than most and its possibly a reflection on why he’s considered one of if not the best WR’s in the league .... I bet if i picked out the right stats I could make Hop and Julio’s #’s look as pedestrian as VG’s ...
VG is a top 10 paid WR in this league for a reason .... and its not cause he’s simply a slot receiver its cause he’s a football player and ONE HELL OF A PLAYMAKER!!!!
At least cfr’s sharp enough to be glad he’s on our team ....
Not sure how it reinforces your opinion. You have been mostly wrong about Baker from the start.
You should try and learn to comprehend the written word before you make such statements. Read what I wrote again.
Speaking of that...you should go back and re-read what cfrs ACTUALLY wrote regarding Calloway/Higgins/Landry...talk about twisting words.
You were over-the-top in your critique and dislike for Baker...yet he has proven you wrong over and over and over. Rather than own it, you are setting yourself up by suddenly saying a "good" thing about him while whining about what he did - or didn't - do this off-season. As if any of us know what he really did or didn't do. The first errant throw he makes will elicit your "I must be seen as being right" disease to kick in and we will have to read about it again...even though it too will be full of unknown assumptions. We will see that his footwork got a little off, and you will turn that into him being a bad guy for not working publicly with a guru on his footwork. You'll get bashed for it, claim someone called you a liar and play "victim". Groundhog Day...only not nearly as funny,
You blasted the folks who believed in Baker from the get-go and you were particularly harsh against a particular poster's opinion...an opinion that was spot on. It's going to be a long decade or so for you with this new FQB on our team.
Slot or not receptions count. They are positive plays.
Not all receptions are created equal. OBJ averaged two more yards per reception over his first four years than Landry. Also, in that time span despite playing 17 less games OBJ had 204 catches compared to Landry's 220. That means 242 of OBJ's 313 receptions ended in a first down or touchdown while 242 of Landry's 400 receptions ended in a first down or touchdown.
Just curious ....
How did you come to the conclusion of OBJ and VG both having created 242 first downs or touchdowns with their respective number of catches? ...
Did u look it up and that is factual or did u just use math and those numbers aren’t factual? ... don’t worry, its not to help me craft a rebuttal to your nonsensical premise ... i’m just curious as to where those numbers came from and if there obj’s and VG’s actual numbers ...
I guess you could say he's growing up. For the sake of the Browns and all of us fans let's hope so.
I believe Baker is misunderstood by many. I don't believe he's immature and I don't believe he needs to "grow uo." I hope he never changes.
Sorry but grabbing your crotch and flipping people off mid game is an immature act. It just is. It really can’t be argued. Now. Has it effected Baker’s game? No. Does it relate back to his fiery personality? Yes. Does that fire work for him? Yes. But it’s still immature. Baker. No Baker. Wouldn’t matter who was doing it. It’s immature for a professional to do. Period.
Jarvis Landry sets NFL record for most receptions in first three year - with Odell Beckham Jr.
Seems pretty fitting that they tied.
Miami Dolphins wide receiver Jarvis Landry holds the record for the most receptions in a player’s first two seasons in the NFL, a record he set at the end of last season. As this season unfolded, Landry was chased by his former LSU teammate and friend Odell Beckham, Jr., of the New York Giants, for the record for most receptions in a player’s first three seasons. Heading into Week 17, Beckham pulled ahead with a four-reception lead.
Landry caught nine passes in a Week 17 early game, then had to wait to see if Beckham would pass him to claim the record. In the late afternoon game, Beckham caught five passes.
That gives Landry a total of 288 career receptions through three years.
That gives Beckham a total of 288 career receptions through three years.
Yeah, the two players who consider the other his brother have exactly the same number of receptions through their first three years in the league, setting the new NFL record.
Landry’s 288 career receptions come with 3,051 yards, a 10.6 yards per catch average, and 13 touchdowns. He set a career high with 12.1 yards per catch in 2016, catching 94 passes for 1,136 yards with four touchdowns. The 94 receptions are the second most for a single season in Dolphins history, trailing just Landry’s 110 receptions in 2015. He also holds the sixth most receptions in a season from his 2014 campaign, which set the team record for a rookie.
Beckham’s 288 receptions come with 4,122 yards, a 14.3 yards per catch average, and 35 touchdowns. He set a career high with 101 receptions this season, recording 1,367 yards with 10 touchdowns. He holds the second-, third-, and fourth-most receptions in a single season in Giants history and has increased his receptions in each year of his career.
Beckham and Landry are currently tied for 17th in career receptions in a player’s first four seasons, trailing Anquan Boldin by 54 receptions. They are only 138 receptions short of Larry Fitzgerald’s five-year mark.
Baker barely had stubble when he was drafted, which was 13 months ago.. is 13 months really "an era"?
A bigger and better ERA than any QB we employed since 1999.
Possibly the start of an ERA in our history that will or have potential to be Equal or better to an Otto Graham Era of yesteryore.
Most important for the Son's and Daughter's of us Browns fans who have woefully experienced NOTHING to support their INHERITED Football team. NOW THEY WILL get the real Brown's BUG and fully understand what we have experienced. They will now know the Love and true meaning of a Browns Fan!
Total receptions is one of the most overrated stats in the NFL. It means next to nothing unless you are playing PPR in fantasy football and can account simply for being a favored/targeted WR by the QB, the only option a QB has relative to other players, or someone a coach targets for designed plays. Here is what that resulted in for Landry:
120th in yards per reception in 2014 103rd in yards per reception in 2015 69th in yards per reception in 2016 (big leap!!)
Odell, during this same time period, was far superior.
In 2018, both Higgins (24th) and Calloway (38th) did better in this stat compared to Landry. I think this is one of the reasons people like the upward trajectory of Higgins and Calloway over Landry.
One more thing on Higgins-- he was 14th in the AFC for first down % per reception (69.2%).
Jarvis Landry might be our fourth best wide receiver if Higgins and Callaway develop more.
This is not true.
It was presenting a possibility, not making a statement.
If the "might" and "if" weren't there, you might have a point.
*shrug*
I've heard Callaway and Higgins have both looked good so far, while Landry has been dinged up off to the side. That wouldn't appear to make the possibility of Landry getting surpassed less likely.
Is it very likely? Probably not, but I think it's within the realm of possibility.
....I'm ready to see how the ball gets spread around already. The season can't get here soon enough so that we all can stop speculating.
I guess you could say he's growing up. For the sake of the Browns and all of us fans let's hope so.
I believe Baker is misunderstood by many. I don't believe he's immature and I don't believe he needs to "grow up." I hope he never changes.
Sorry but grabbing your crotch and flipping people off mid game is an immature act. It just is. It really can’t be argued. Now. Has it effected Baker’s game? No. Does it relate back to his fiery personality? Yes. Does that fire work for him? Yes. But it’s still immature. Baker. No Baker. Wouldn’t matter who was doing it. It’s immature for a professional to do. Period.
How many professionals are paid to play a game, though?
How many professionals have screaming fans guzzling beers in their "offices?"
It's not really a professional setting is it?
It's much more of an emotional one and the crowd's "emotion" can effect the players. Mob (group not mafia) mentality is a real thing. People do things in groups they wouldn't do alone.
I don't expect that Baker would do the things he does on the field in a board room. I expect "professionals" might get a bit carried away if they were on the field in front of a raucous crowd with thousands of people chanting their names.
Most professionals don't get every "mistake" they make blown up by the media.
Most professionals aren't still in the first half of their 20s.
His maturity seems just about fine when you look at it with those things in mind in my opinion.
Higgins has 72 catches for 961 yards and 4 TDs in his career. He also has 1 rushing attempt for 4 yards.
Jarvis Landry has more catches in every single year he has played that Higgins has in his entire career. Landry also has more yards in every single season except his rookie year than Higgins has in his career. He still had 758 yards in his rookie season. Landry has 22 more TDs than Higgins has. Landry has another 179 yards on the ground. He can also throw the football. We saw that last year when he threw a bomb that resulted in a 50 yard gain.
Callaway had a decent rookie year w/43 receptions for 586 yards and 5 TDs. Landry has beat those numbers in each of his 5 seasons.
Everyone is entitled to your opinion, but I don't think there is much evidence to support an opinion that Landry might end up being our 4th WR.
Jarvis Landry is highly regarded in NFL circles. It gets tiring to see a few posters on a Brown's message board either downplay or even disrespect his accomplishments on the football field.
And I haven't even touched their values in the locker room, practice field or their leadership abilities.
Higgins has 72 catches for 961 yards and 4 TDs in his career. He also has 1 rushing attempt for 4 yards.
Jarvis Landry has more catches in every single year he has played that Higgins has in his entire career. Landry also has more yards in every single season except his rookie year than Higgins has in his career. He still had 758 yards in his rookie season. Landry has 22 more TDs than Higgins has. Landry has another 179 yards on the ground. He can also throw the football. We saw that last year when he threw a bomb that resulted in a 50 yard gain.
Callaway had a decent rookie year w/43 receptions for 586 yards and 5 TDs. Landry has beat those numbers in each of his 5 seasons.
Everyone is entitled to your opinion, but I don't think there is much evidence to support an opinion that Landry might end up being our 4th WR.
Jarvis Landry is highly regarded in NFL circles. It gets tiring to see a few posters on a Brown's message board either downplay or even disrespect his accomplishments on the football field.
And I haven't even touched their values in the locker room, practice field or their leadership abilities.
Landry is a flat out STUD. And he's appropriately paid for said STUDDOM.
Higgins has 72 catches for 961 yards and 4 TDs in his career. He also has 1 rushing attempt for 4 yards.
Jarvis Landry has more catches in every single year he has played that Higgins has in his entire career. Landry also has more yards in every single season except his rookie year than Higgins has in his career. He still had 758 yards in his rookie season. Landry has 22 more TDs than Higgins has. Landry has another 179 yards on the ground. He can also throw the football. We saw that last year when he threw a bomb that resulted in a 50 yard gain.
Callaway had a decent rookie year w/43 receptions for 586 yards and 5 TDs. Landry has beat those numbers in each of his 5 seasons.
Everyone is entitled to your opinion, but I don't think there is much evidence to support an opinion that Landry might end up being our 4th WR.
Jarvis Landry is highly regarded in NFL circles. It gets tiring to see a few posters on a Brown's message board either downplay or even disrespect his accomplishments on the football field.
And I haven't even touched their values in the locker room, practice field or their leadership abilities.
He’s just a slot receiver Vers ... get over your infatuation of the overpriced bum ..... there a dime a dozen ... very little value to a team ... hell Duke could replace him and we’d barely miss a beat according to a few of the menZas that know way more about football than us ....
I mean Memphis has the be all end all stat of YPC and that definetly proves what a bum VG is ... it proves beyond a shadow of the doubt that VG is a BUM and both Calloway and Higgins have the potential to be better than him (IMO Calloway does have to potential ... Higgins has NO SHOT ... he simply doesn’t hve the skill set to) ...
I mean YPC is all that matters ... it far outweighs the total number of catches a player had in determining how good a player may or may not be ... getting a lot of catches is simply luck and has nothing to do with skill level ... most QB’s just randomly pick who to throw to and could care less about a receivers ability to get open or how good they are ... VG and OBJ did nothing special breaking all the catch total records for newbies .... ...
and if that ONE SINGLE STAT wasn’t enough in Higgins case ... he was 14th in first down % per catch .... that wasn’t 14th in catches for first downs ... its 14th in first downs % per catch ... witch totally eliminates total catches and thats why Memphis is brilliant cause he realizes the total number of catches someone has really is no indicator of how good they are ... ITS IRRELIVENT ... YPC and the % of your catches that go for first downs are MUCH MUCH BETTER INDICATORS ...
I’m still trying to figure out why VG was franchised and Higgins was only given a 5th round tender .... they must not be privy to Memphis’s very Sashiesque way of thinking .... i wonder if Sashi let Memphis present his YPC and % of catches going for first down theory on his last podcast .... ....
I would be exceedingly happy if Higgins and Callaway surpass Landry in a couple years as well, but that would take a lot of work and a bit of luck.
Don't get me wrong, I like them both and I fully acknowledge Landry is over paid but he is still a top 5 WR2 (and a top 20 or better overall WR)
I anticipate Landry returning to his 2015-2016 form once he is back to being the WR2 he excels at. His Yards per target plummeted the last two years primarily because he didn't have an established 2nd presence out there with him I believe (gasp* opinions).
Callaway has something Landry will never have with his blazing speed. Landry has everything else and does them better than Callaway at the moment - and maybe forever...they are the same size. I could see Callaway developing to be a "better" WR than Landry due to his ridiculous speed provided he continues to improve in other areas.
Higgins is taller but doesn't strike me as being any longer overall than Landry. He may be faster, but I'd wager not MUCH faster. Once again, Landry has everything else and does them better than Higgins at the moment - and maybe forever. I could see Higgins developing into a carbon-copy of Landry...but maybe slightly less-effective as a slot guy and a slightly more-effective as an outside guy.
If ANY of those three guys are seen as being our 4th best WR, we are in tremendous shape there.
I talked to some people who watched some of the OTAs not open to the media. I’m going to take you into the minds of the decision makers, and how they view these workouts.
As Freddie Kitchens stressed, it’s important for the players to be at the voluntary OTAs, but it’s not mandatory. While the media tends to dwell on Odell Beckham Jr. not being there and if Duke Johnson will be traded, the Browns don’t agonize about veterans. The spotlight is on the young players and the guys who have a shot to make the roster. They are not the big names.
With that in mind, here we go:
1. The three starting cornerbacks – Denzel Ward, Terrance Mitchell and TJ Carrie (covering slot receivers) – have been impressive. It’s a sign of progress that second-round pick Greedy Williams doesn’t have to start.
2. One of the goals of the front office was to add depth at cornerback because Ward (concussions) and Mitchell (broken wrist) were hurt last year. The 6-foot-2 Williams is lanky, fast and a natural at the position. He could beat out someone by the time the season opens.
3. Defensive back Lenzy Pipkins got into a brief fight with wide receiver Derrick Willies when the media was there. Both are having good camps. Pipkins played 12 games for Green Bay in 2017. Assistant GMs Alonzo Highsmith and Eliot Wolf were in the Packers’ front office back then. They like him.
4. The Browns want to pile up the cornerbacks. They also have Philip Gaines (6-year veteran) and Tavierre Thomas, who can help on special teams. Seventh-rounder Donnie Lewis is recovering from a foot injury. New defensive coordinator Steve Wilks liked him before the draft.
5. The Browns believe the 6-foot-4 Willies was emerging as a viable NFL receiver when he fractured his collarbone early in the season. Quarterback Baker Mayfield developed some chemistry with Willies in training camp last year. He caught three passes for 61 yards in the regular season before he was hurt.
6. One of the reasons the Browns could trade Johnson is Dontrell Hilliard. The Browns front office is run by scouts at heart, meaning they love to find undrafted players who contribute. Hilliard made the team in that capacity last season. Listed at 5-11, 202 pounds, he showed up having added 10 more pounds and seems faster.
7. Nick Chubb is the starter. Kareem Hunt was eye-popping in various drills, but he’s suspended for the first eight games. Johnson is sitting out. Hilliard has a chance to get noticed, and he’s doing exactly that.
8. One of Wilks’ defensive schemes is called “Buffalo Nickel.” It comes from the Carolina Panthers, where Wilks was an assistant. One variation has a safety really close to the line of scrimmage. At his introductory press conference, Wilks mentioned a special role for Jabrill Peppers. That was it. Peppers has since been traded.
9. Veteran Morgan Burnett, cut by the Steelers in April after requesting his release, is the obvious choice to start at strong safety. But the Browns have been intrigued by Jermaine Whitehead in that role. Another former Packer (2017), Whitehead played 24 games in that last two years. I keep hearing, “Don’t ignore this guy.”
10. The Browns have a lot of tight ends – David Njoku, Demetrius Harris and Seth DeValve are the top three. Njoku and Harris would probably receive the most playing time. Harris is a superb blocker. DeValve has been with the team since 2016, and has to prove he can stay healthy.
11. Tight end Orson Charles was praised last year for his work as blocker. Browns tight end coach John Lilly coached Charles at Georgia, where he caught 45 passes in his final season. That could open a door for Charles to do more for the Browns.
12. But here’s the longshot, a scout’s favorite: Brush High product Pharaoh Brown, who was a blue chip recruit and played at Oregon. In 2015, he suffered a leg injury so gruesome doctors nearly amputated it, and that led to him being undrafted. Cleveland signed Brown (6-6, 258) to the practice squad last September and activated him, but he suffered a shoulder injury in December. The Browns want to see more of him.
13. While former offensive line coach Bob Wylie was entertaining and a star of the 2018 edition of HBO’s “Hard Knocks” last summer, the Browns believe James Campen is a significant upgrade. Campen was the Packers’ offensive line coach for 11 seasons. The Browns consider him to be an impact hire. Wylie has not yet caught on with another team.
14. During rookie/free agent camp, Kitchens said: "I will say this about our offensive line – this may be the best group in this setting, the minicamp, tryout guys, free agent guys – this is the best offensive line I have ever been a part of. I have been in the league 13 years. I have never seen a group collectively this good. We can actually function on offense, and sometimes in this kind of camp setting, that is hard to do.”
15. Campen is working sixth-round pick Drew Forbes at tackle and guard. Kendall Lamm is receiving a lot of work at both tackle positions. Bryan Witzmann is working at both guard spots and at right tackle. Eric Kush is working at center and guard. None of them is expected to start, but Campen is stressing depth and flexibility with backups.
16. The Browns don’t want an injury to any of their starting linemen to sidetrack the season and lead to an injury to Mayfield. Austin Corbett will receive the first chance to replace Kevin Zeitler at right guard, but the Browns signed veterans Witzmann and Kush as fall-backs.
17. Here’s another name: Chad Thomas, a defensive end and the team’s third-round pick in 2018. He was injured in training camp. Former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams never warmed to Thomas, and the front office was frustrated that the Miami product didn’t receive more than 22 snaps.
18. The Browns think the Thomas can help against the run and pass. He has a fresh start with Wilks and new defensive line coach Tosh Lupoi.
19. I was told Mayfield has looked very sharp. For the front office and coaching staff, it’s comforting not to go into all these workouts having to figure out who could possibly become a long-term starter at QB.
20. I will be speaking at the Uniontown Library (Lake Community) on June 4 at 6 p.m. I will be at the Lakewood Library on June 13 at 7 p.m. Both events are free.
Higgins may be and i mean may be faster than VG ... i don’t think so but he may be ... VG has above average speed he’s just not a burner .... like u pointed out its what separates him from a guy like Calloway if Calloway can learn to do all the other stuff as good as VG .... that extra gear is the only difference between VG and AB ... the only difference ... some may not realize this .... VG returned punts and maybe even kick off early on in his career ... he returned a punt or two for a TD ... he’s got some speed, just not elite ...
but where VG is head and shoulders above him and always will be is quickness and hands .... he’s very very quick ... Higgins isn’t ... u can’t teach that .... Higgins can get quicker and better but he simply doesn’t ahve the feet and hips VG does .... VG is simply more physically gifted in that regard .....
And Higgins has very good hands but Landry’s are elite ... his hands are HUGE ... the circus catches guys like him and OBJ and Hop can make on a consistent basis require huge ass hands and VG has them ... anyone can make them once in awhile .... to do it consistently ... it almost always takes big hands .... i don’t even know how big hops or obj’s hands are ... if i’m Wrong i’ll Know real soon ... *L* ...
I’m not sure what happened this year with VG ... he had more drop this year than he did his first 5 combined ... i watched every game he played with the fish ... he caught my eye from his first game .... and one of the reasons was he NEVER EVER DROPPED the ball ... not only did he have some drops this year but he had way to many of them ....
And i would LOVE for both Higgins and Calloway to surpass VG .... as Peen said .... we’d be in pretty dang good shape if that happened and we all ready have the best room in the league ... ...
LOVING these discussions over the old ones .... its so nice to finally be talking about who has the most upside as opposed how bad they are ...
Again, you are making things up.....No one is claiming Landry is a bum. Stop making up crap. Your posts are terrible enough and written like a 3 year old that we don't need lies mixed in as well.
YPC isn't all that matters but it is an important stat. Yards per catch, within it, can tell us:
- Yards after the catch - Air yards - Insight into certain routes ran over others as a result of bigger plays - Most likely above average speed of a WR
Just to name a few. It encompasses much more than just a number for a player.
What can u tell from being 14th in first down % per catch ... ...
U use one stat to draw a conclusion (a BS one at that) and your telling me to do better .... okie dokie smokie .... i’ll try my best to do better and meet that high standard ....
Landry's hands were tied for biggestin his class (10.25")...with Kelvin Bejamin (who is 6'5")
OBJ was 3rd at 10" flat.
The circumference at dead center of an NFL regulation football is 22". They could almost wrap there hands entirely around the ball even at its widest point..
...but where VG is head and shoulders above him and always will be is quickness and hands .... he’s very very quick ... Higgins isn’t ... u can’t teach that .... Higgins can get quicker and better but he simply doesn’t ahve the feet and hips VG does .... VG is simply more physically gifted in that regard .....
I agree. You can 'get' quicker or faster...but that might not necessarily make you quick or fast...and you'll likely never get to elite levels.
The only thing Higgins has over Landry is he's a couple inches taller and a couple years younger...well that and his contract. (Not going there.)
Like I've/you've said...Callaway 'could' surpass Landry and Higgins 'could' be Landry-like but unlikely to surpass Landry. I do think that Higgins looks like a better fit 'outside' than does Landry and Landry looks better 'inside'. I have no 'football' to support that belief...just what it looks like in my eyes.
Maybe just maybe some would understand what the goal of an offense is and how receivers fit within.
Someone who does understand is John Dorsey.
If anyone wants to debate the importance of his conclusions have at it. So when Dorsey first became the GM of the Browns what was one of his first moves? He orchestrated a trade for Pro Bowl receiver Jarvis Landry.
Why?
Because he knew the kind of player Landry is and the impact he would have on his young team.
When Todd Haley was the OC and on Hard Knocks does anyone remember when he pulled Jarvis aside and asked him to put Callaway under his wing? Why would he do that?
Trying to build an argument about Landry behind stats or cherry picking stats to try and win a "argument".
Shows a lack of understanding of what team contributions and team goals are about.
Watch games and pay attention to offensive results and how they happen. Watch the impact of the players on the field. Receivers are on the field for all the offensive plays. When they don't catch the ball what is their role and how good are they at performing that role?
What coverage are they drawing? How do they block downfield?
To somehow try and diminish what Landry is as a player displays a lack of understanding of offensive goals.
That is something John Dorsey understands completely.
That of all of Higgins catches, 69.2% resulted in first downs. It's not that hard. It could be as a result of a direct throw that got the first or his YAC that aided in moving the chains.
Landry's hands were tied for biggestin his class (10.25")...with Kelvin Bejamin (who is 6'5")
OBJ was 3rd at 10" flat.
The circumference at dead center of an NFL regulation football is 22". They could almost wrap there hands entirely around the ball even at its widest point..
My Hands are 8.75"
Despite his big hands, he did have 11 drops last season. Hopefully, he can clean those up. Not really a red flag, but each time it happened I was surprised, which I probably shouldn't have been by the time he hit the last one.
I can't find a breakdown of which games they happened in. I'm guessing the switch from Tyrod to Baker may have been a factor.
Sometimes it's easy to forget that Landry is only 26 and should still be in his prime. It feels like he has been around for awhile. While I'm not sure he has as much room for growth as the younger guys, there's no reason he should be declining either.
Rashard Higgins was a fifth round selection. Last year he was a restricted free agent.
First, the “original-round tender” part of the equation…
Higgins was a fifth-round pick by the Browns back in 2016. The original round tender means any team who signs Higgins to a restricted free agent offer sheet will be required to send the Browns a fifth-round pick (his original round) as compensation.
Rashard Higgins signed a 1 year, $2,025,000 contract with the Cleveland Browns, including an average annual salary of $2,025,000. In 2019, Higgins will earn a base salary of $2,025,000, while carrying a cap hit of $2,025,000.
U and I only disagree on one thing ... U think more of Higgins and his upside than i do ... and i like Higgie just fine ... this isn’t a slam on him ....
I don’t think he has a shot of ever being as good as VG ... i actually think Higgie has a better shot of being cut this year than ever being as good as VG and i’d Say Higgins is about 98.5% guaranteed to be on the roster ... hey, u never know, its an extreme long shot but if Ratley, Willies and Strong shine ....
Pretty clear message of what Dorsey believes Higgins value is....
I disagree...we could match any offer and keep him...other teams knew that...no need to pay more than we HAVE to. He got a $2mil deal...not big...not bad. He has to prove he can do "it" consistently. We were in the driver's seat on that one.
I'm no expert here, but I would think that evaluating OL/DL in non-contact work would be virtually impossible. Maybe you can get a handle on athleticism and recognition...but that's about it. There are a few "OL" guys on here who would be better-qualified to expound than am I.
First of all, the article was written by a guy who listened to Lesmerises report of the OTA session. I've read Lesmerises' stuff before and I think he is completely clueless when it comes to his football knowledge. He says so many dumb things. I think he could very well be misinterpreting what he saw.
Secondly, unlike the other OL people [at least the ones I've had conversations with] on this board, I think that you can tell a ton about an offensive lineman w/out pads. Obviously, you can't judge strength, recognition, and want-to w/out facing defenders in pads, but you sure as hell can do a ton of teaching and hone the technical side of playing OL............and that is every bit, if not more, important than the first three things I mentioned.
I spent my first year in coaching as an OL coach. It was the only spot open and the HC wanted me on the staff. I knew some things about OL because I was a RB, but I never realized just how intricately detailed the unit was.
We used a lot of zone blocking schemes and footwork is huge. Timing is huge. Working as one is huge.
I like to compare it to synchronized swimming or a choreographed dance line in that demands that all of the working parts are working in sync w/one another. Timing, spacing, footwork, angles, technique, etc are huge to the success of an offensive line. Our teams always spent way more time working on these individual and group drills than we did in team drills. Does everyone know what I mean by individual, group, and team activities are? If not, I'll explain.
Thus, one could tell if Corbett was behind if they really knew understood what was important in my second point. However, given that Lesmerises was the guy evaluating the session, I wouldn't put too much stock into it. It may simply be a case of Corbett being a bit behind because he is the only new starter on the OL. We'll have to watch him in preseason games to really know for ourselves, unless Freddie or the new OL coach and tells anything before then.
That makes sense. He's the new guy and new to the position. I could see him struggling with the footwork at the new position even though he was touted as having very good feet. It's still new footwork in any event.
Same with technique. He was a LT who likely practiced mostly at C last year. Different footwork and technique all around. He's a new-to-the-position guy playing as the only not-returning guy from last year...might look a little 'off' at the start.
I would like to read comments about this (later today as I'm off to the office:
"Does everyone know what I mean by individual, group, and team activities are? If not, I'll explain."
I'll do a quick explanation. I'll use the OL as my example since we were already talking about them, but all the units go through all 3 phases of the practice.
Individual: This is where you work on your "individual" skills. For an OL, depending upon the number of coaches you have on your staff, you break them into positions, such as guard, center, and tackles. A high school staff might combine guards and centers. You go through multiple individual drills, such as coming out of your stance, footwork, pad level, steps, hitting bags, sleds, etc.
One particular example is what we called "gap" blocking, but a lot of people say "angle" blocking. This particular type of blocking demands that you come out of your stance w/your lead foot pointing at a 45 degree angle. You have to come out low, like running out of a chute. The idea is to get your head across the defenders body [that defender is typically one guy down the line from you. You punch w/the lead hand and bury your face mask into his opposite arm pit and the back arm is like a chicken wing and is used to seal the man from crossing your face. Your goal is drive them in the direction you are moving or at least, seal them from going towards your starting point. That's because that is the cutback lane for your RB.
Group: During group, you bring the entire unit together. You typically start off in half lines. The play side guys --G, T, and TE practice their steps and timing together, and back side T, G, and C practice together because they are area blocking and don't have the same responsibilities as the play side. Obviously, you switch back and forth w/your right and left sides for play side and back side.
You then bring the entire line together and they work together as "one." This is that synchronized movement I was talking about. No one can be out of step. If they are, there is a huge gap for a penetrating defender to blast through and either kill your QB or RB. We've all seen that. LOL
Team: This one is easy. It's where you bring both the offense and defense together and scrimmage in 11-on-11s or 7-on-7.
I have always maintained that teams who spend more time on Individual and Group activities are more successful than those who spend too much time on Team activities. It's the nuances of the game that are important.
I would think that OTAs would be heaviest on Individual work? If so, and if he's struggling with footwork and technique there, that'd be a problem in the Group drills.
With the word 'problem' being relative here. Problem? Or new? Who knows.
I'm with you on the source of the comments versus the reality of the progress. I'm more interested in what Campen will have to say or learning his preference in developing/coaching his group.
four positions returning one new face on the line rotating different people in and out No contact drills yet, purely timing, angles, responsibilities, reads etc
And this is a big problem... why?
Find your best five and go... I don't give a rats if they change them all... just get the best five working together
Rocky River, Ohio (92.3 The Fan) – John Dorsey’s blockbuster trade for Odell Beckham Jr. was an eye opener for Austin Corbett.
And it had little to do with acquiring Beckham.
Landing the star receiver along with Pro Bowl defensive end Olivier Vernon from the New York Giants cost the Browns their reliable starting right guard – veteran Kevin Zeitler – thus opening the door for Corbett to slide into the starting five after spending his rookie season without a position and basically riding the bench.
“There’s a spot open. I’ve got a chance to go win this,” Corbett said Monday at the 20th annual Browns Foundation golf outing at Westwood Country Club. “Freddie and Dorsey have been real clear that it’s not going to be given to me by any means. That’s not who I am. That’s not who I want to be. I don’t want to be given anything in life, and so, it’s a really great opportunity to go earn a starting position in the National Football League.”
Watching Zeitler get traded was a reality check for the Nevada product.
“It’s kind of weird in the sense of you find out it’s a business,” Corbett said. “Kevin’s a good friend and a real good player. [I] Learned a lot from him last year.”
Corbett appeared in 11 games as a rookie with one start – as an extra lineman Oct. 17 against Baltimore. That was his role as a rookie in addition to working on the field goal protect team.
He’s being counted on to do much more in 2019.
“I just have to go and show and prove them right, that this is why they drafted me,” Corbett said. “I’ve got to go make it happen. It’s all on me. There’s no one else. If I don’t get the starting job, it’s my fault.”
Cleaning up – The Browns hoped they’d be able to improve the speed and production from their linebackers this offseason, and they may have found a way to do it without replacing their starters outside of releasing Jamie Collins in February.
By upgrading the defensive line.
The additions of Vernon along with Sheldon Richardson should not only help Larry Ogunjobi and Myles Garrett make impact plays but Schobert and Christian Kirksey too.
“You can see how invaluable those [defensive linemen] are going to be just to wrecking offensive game plans,” Schobert said in an interview with Adam ‘The Bull’ on 92.3 The Fan Monday. “You double OV, you've got Myles. You triple Myles, you've got Sheldon and Larry inside. Try to double one of them, the guys on the edge are going to win.
“It's going to be insane. As long as everybody can stay healthy, I can see a lot of sacks and a lot of disrupted plays for us linebackers to kind of come in and clean up the scraps behind.”
The Browns drafted Schobert 99th overall in the 2016 NFL Draft and he made the Pro Bowl as an alternate in 2017 but his first two seasons saw the Browns win one game out of 32. This past year brought serious hope to him after the team finished 7-8-1 and they are now the favorites to win the AFC North and end a 16-year playoff drought.
“It's real exciting, it's cool to be a part of this team,” Schobert said. “The level of talent we have...since I've been here, we haven't had this much talent. So it's just a matter of getting everybody to gel. 2019 should be a heck of a year.”
Several teams reportedly called the Browns about Schobert this offseason, but he remains in Cleveland and that has him somewhat relieved.
“You can’t really get too caught up in social media stuff if you’re in this business,” Schobert said. “I’m still here. As long as I’m on the Browns, I’m going to be all-in on the Browns. You’re going to stay around as long as you produce.”
For the kids – Monday’s golf outing helped raise funds for the Browns Foundation, which has focused on several education initiatives, including addressing chronic absenteeism, in recent years.
Browns owner Dee Haslam announced Monday that their goal is to expand the program, which has been successful in Cleveland and other northeast Ohio schools, statewide.
The foundation, which has raised over $3 million since 1999 and supports education, youth football and the 'Give10' innitiative, has also helped fund the installation of at least seven multipurpose athletic fields throughout northeast Ohio with plans to install more.
I read an article about Corbett's supposed "struggles" where he talked about learning to play right-handed after playing left-handed his whole career. Something else to consider in his position change...not just tackle to guard...but left to right. Not to mention the stereo-type that LTs are more finesse than are other spots on the line and RGs are the brutes of the Oline. Lots of things to change.
A rather useless tidbit (maybe):
It is likely that all 5 of our starting OL will consist of guys who played OT in college...if not LT. Our own project "X" played LT as well but may likely move inside if he makes the NFL.. I didn't look up the college positions of the other backups, but I might now. I find that interesting in general and of particular interest when considering the widely-held belief that today's college OL are not as prepared for pro ball as they once were.
FWIW: I didn't know where to put this and didn't want to start a new thread. I think there is some good OL stuff in here already...so here it is.
I am not so sure that he is "struggling"...I think if there is a difference it is because he is still "thinking" as the muscle memory is not perfectly set yet. And so when you compare him to a Pro Bowler who has been set there for a number of years...sure he can look a little slower.
I would say that the shuffling about is as much about the fact that we have a new OLine Coach who is unfamiliar with this group that wants to know what he has as it might be about trying to find the Best 5 Guys.
You gotta remember, an Owner is only as good as those he hires to run the team? If he/she gets it wrong, then keep trying till you get it right.
It appears that they got it right with Dorsey.
When you think about it, which would you rather have..
The Bengals who stayed with Marv for all those years, even after it was clear he could only get them so far? Or the Browns who kept hitting the reset button in hopes the next one would be the right one?
There is an argument for both. I believe in the old tried and true method..... Hire Slow, fire fast. And yeah, at times I've wanted to hang with what we had....but each time, I've ended up wrong.
BEREA — The front office sought out new offensive coordinator Todd Monken for inside information on free agent defensive tackle Gerald McCoy, and Monken provided plenty of insight after spending three years with McCoy in Tampa Bay as the Buccaneers’ offensive coordinator.
Monken said he wasn’t going to share the conversation with reporters, then elaborated anyway.
“I think a lot of Gerald,” he said Wednesday before an organized team activities practice. “Gerald has had a tremendous career and was an outstanding football player for us. He’s a great person.
“I won’t comment anything else about it — I know I can because he’s a free agent and they’ve let him go. Other than that, there were some other things that we talked about, but I like Gerald a lot.”
McCoy is available after the Buccaneers released him Monday because they were unwilling to pay the $13 million salary and couldn’t find a trade partner. The Browns have expressed interest and are among the teams that intrigue McCoy as he looks to join a playoff contender, according to a Cleveland.com report.
He was the No. 3 pick of the 2010 draft and is a six-time Pro Bowler.
The Browns signed free agent tackle Sheldon Richardson to a three-year, $37 million contract in March and have promising third-year tackle Larry Ogunjobi, so they are unlikely to get into a bidding war for McCoy. But for the right price, he would give the Browns an impressive three-man rotation on the interior of the line.
NO CLOWN SHOW
Monken is amused by quarterback Baker Mayfield.
To borrow a line from “Goodfellas,” he doesn’t think he’s a clown.
“You can certainly see the competitive spirit. The best way I can put it is: He likes to have fun but he’s not a clown,” Monken said. “I think people misconstrue how much fun he likes to have playing the game and around people, but I’m telling you when you’re in the meetings and you’re out here, he wants to be coached, he wants to be great. He’s a serious guy when it comes to the game of football.”
The Browns have had five OTAs practices, which is enough for Monken to get a sense of his new quarterback’s skill set.
“Tremendous arm talent,” he said. “And really, really has a unique knack once he gets outside the pocket to see receivers down the field and throw it accurately.”
Monken and Mayfield have experience in the Air Raid system, which means they like to play with tempo, without a huddle and in the shotgun. But Monken said it’s too early to tell how much of that will be incorporated in the offensive collaboration between him and coach Freddie Kitchens, who will call the plays.
NOT AROUND
Receivers Rashard Higgins, Damion Ratley and Blake Jackson got plenty of work with the first-team offense as Odell Beckham Jr., Jarvis Landry and Antonio Callaway — the team’s top three wideouts — weren’t on the practice field.
Beckham has attended one of the five OTAs sessions and just three days since the voluntary offseason program began April 1. Monken said that’s not ideal for Mayfield, and that he hasn’t been in contact with Beckham when he’s away.
** Running back Duke Johnson also continued his absence. He’s requested a trade and hasn’t attended any of the offseason program.
** Defensive ends Myles Garrett and Olivier Vernon also were absent, leaving Chris Smith and Chad Thomas as the starters.
** Strong safety Morgan Burnett, receiver Derrick Willies, cornerbacks Donnie Lewis Jr. and Juston Burris and defensive tackle Brian Price worked on the side with the athletic training staff.
SIGHTS AND SOUNDS
Rookie cornerback Greedy Williams, a second-round pick, was part of the first-team nickel package. He and Denzel Ward played outside, with TJ Carrie in the slot. Jermaine Whitehead was the strong safety in place of Burnett.
** Linebacker Christian Kirksey intercepted Mayfield when Jackson didn’t look for a pass over the middle.
** Rookie safety Sheldrick Redwine, a fourth-round pick, intercepted a deflected pass downfield. He previously allowed a deep touchdown catch by receiver D.J. Montgomery.
** Kickers Greg Joseph and Austin Seibert each went 3-for-4 in a field goal drill. Joseph, the incumbent, missed from 37 yards. Seibert, a rookie fifth-round pick, missed from 42 with a low liner left.
Steve Wilks: The identity of our defense will be how well our corners tackle
I was afraid of that. I've brought this point up in a few threads, including the Cover 2 thread.
Wilks played more zone than any DC in the league when he was in Carolina. I think Cover 3 is fine for our personnel and so is Cover 1.
I really don't want us to play much Cover 2, but no other coverage asks its corners to tackle more than Cover 2. Hell, I don't like Cover 2 anyway and I sure as heck don't like it w/our personnel.
You gotta remember, an Owner is only as good as those he hires to run the team? If he/she gets it wrong, then keep trying till you get it right.
It appears that they got it right with Dorsey.
When you think about it, which would you rather have..
The Bengals who stayed with Marv for all those years, even after it was clear he could only get them so far? Or the Browns who kept hitting the reset button in hopes the next one would be the right one?
There is an argument for both. I believe in the old tried and true method..... Hire Slow, fire fast. And yeah, at times I've wanted to hang with what we had....but each time, I've ended up wrong.
I agree. Nobody can say say Jimmy hasn't tried to get it right and win. To me, that is all a fan can ask.
Steve Wilks: The identity of our defense will be how well our corners tackle
I really don't want us to play much Cover 2, but no other coverage asks its corners to tackle more than Cover 2. Hell, I don't like Cover 2 anyway and I sure as heck don't like it w/our personnel.
See, I got lost on that other thread about Cover 2,3,0, 9, etc. I guess I'm not THAT interested in learning the true details of football. Too much coach speak makes me get sleepy lol.
But I like little tidbits like the one you provided, especially the one about not having corners that don't have a rep for tackling. Didn't we bring in Ward and Greedy to cover?
Bro, it's not that complicated. Seriously. You are a smart guy. Go back and read what I said about each coverage in the Cover 2 thread. It's really very simple.
I'll make it even more simple even if it isn't completely accurate due to some details.
Cover 0: Everyone plays a man and no one plays an area.
Cover 1: Everyone plays a man except for a deep safety who provides over the top support. Hint...he's the "1."
Cover 2: The field is split into halves. Get it? Divide by 2.
Cover 3. The field is split into thirds. Get it? Divide by 3.
Cover 4. The field is divided into fourths. Get it? Divide by 4.
Cover 6. It's a combination of Cover 2 and Cover 4. Get it? 2 plus 4 equals 6.
Note: When I say divided, I am talking about horizontally, rather than vertically.
For example........in Cover 3.........the corner to one side is responsible for any receiver who is outside the hash marks on his side of the field. The same goes for the corner on the other side of the field. The FS is responsible for the deep zones in between the hashes. The SS and LBers patrol the shallow and intermediate middle of the field, but 1 of them is also asked to cover the flat.
It's simple math. Divide the horizontal field into thirds.
Question though - and this is probably the last one cuz I don't want to bore everybody with my lack of X and O knowledge - which safety or LB is responsible if a CB gets beat outside?
With all of what I said on numerous threads.....here is my wish.
I think the Browns should obviously mix up their coverages like every other team, but w/our personnel, I think we should play a lot of Cover 3 [zone] and Cover 1 [man.]
I think we should stay as far away from Cover 2 as possible. It's asking for trouble. I mean, you gotta put it in the mix occasionally, but just do it to provide a different look.
I know what I'm talking about on this particular subject. I hope Wilks doesn't screw this up.
According to practice reports we are running almost exclusively a 4-2-5 defense with Kirksey and Schobert at linebacker. Genard Avery is playing exclusively on the edge. When there are three linebackers Adarius Taylor is the third linebacker (I'd expect that to be Takitaki or Wilson by training camp).
I want to bring this up again because no one has replied to it and perhaps people missed it. I think it is noteworthy because we had several conversations about what coverages Wilks will use and if he will deviate from his past history and employ a defense that suits are talent.
I'll be frank..........his comment is concerning.
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
Steve Wilks: The identity of our defense will be how well our corners tackle
I was afraid of that. I've brought this point up in a few threads, including the Cover 2 thread.
Wilks played more zone than any DC in the league when he was in Carolina. I think Cover 3 is fine for our personnel and so is Cover 1.
I really don't want us to play much Cover 2, but no other coverage asks its corners to tackle more than Cover 2. Hell, I don't like Cover 2 anyway and I sure as heck don't like it w/our personnel.
Dorsey and Kitchens and the whole lot of them seem to be a bright bunch. So Wilks's comment doesn't seem to make much sense unless Kitchens promised Wilks complete autonomy and he's a system guy no matter the talent of the players.
Bro, it's not that complicated. Seriously. You are a smart guy. Go back and read what I said about each coverage in the Cover 2 thread. It's really very simple.
I'll make it even more simple even if it isn't completely accurate due to some details.
Cover 0: Everyone plays a man and no one plays an area.
Cover 1: Everyone plays a man except for a deep safety who provides over the top support. Hint...he's the "1."
Cover 2: The field is split into halves. Get it? Divide by 2.
Cover 3. The field is split into thirds. Get it? Divide by 3.
Cover 4. The field is divided into fourths. Get it? Divide by 4.
Cover 6. It's a combination of Cover 2 and Cover 4. Get it? 2 plus 4 equals 6.
Note: When I say divided, I am talking about horizontally, rather than vertically.
The math doesn't trip me up, it's the responsibilities in those 'zone' coverages and the 'what-ifs' once the ball is snapped.
The Cover 3 Pattern Match - that is discussed earlier in this thread - is the one that makes the most sense to me. Essentially, playing 'man' on the outside with 'zone' on the inside. If only one eligible receiver is in your 'zone', don't you need to man-up on that guy? If a second guy comes into your zone, who else is supposed to come help defend?
Lastly, busting a zone defense in basketball can be done with good outside shooting. What busts up the various defensive coverage in football? My thoughts:
Cover 0 - Seems like you need a lot of good cover guys or you roll the dice...offenses will likely pick on the 'worst' cover guy on the field.
Cover 1 - Similar to Cover 0, but with a safety blanket...works with good man-cover CBs. I'm guessing that the FS in this coverage could be deep-ish middle or rolled to either side pre-snap;
Cover 2 - Requires that your CBs are good and willing tacklers (this I learned from you). But that's all I understand about the Cover 2 (that and the field is split in 2);
Cover 3 - All I know is that the field is split in 1/3s.
I'll stop there as I will just be redundant with my understanding of Cover 2 or 3. I'll add that contributing to the confusion - for me anyway - is this:
Cover 0 and cover 1 are referring to the # of players. In these cases, essentially the # of guys who 'have your back'...0 or 1. Cover 2, Cover 3 and Cover 4 refer to the splitting up of the field and really no reference to the # of players.
I mentioned earlier that there is jargon in these numbering schemes that make sense when you understand the jargon. Your list is certainly helpful for guys like me who don't/didn't know the jargon. Now I can get into trying to identify the coverage and who is responsible for what. Much appreciated.
Here's a good, quick and extensive article about the weaknesses of each coverage, while also diagramming the coverage responsibilities.
For zone, you're suppose to play your man through your zone and help pass him off to the defender next to you while still maintaining your zone responsibility. Mesh concepts are some of the best ways to exploit this concept, which is sending two players to run across the field on a slant or drag route. Ideally they arrive in the zone at the same time, making the inside guy (usually a linebacker) commit to one WR. There are also wrinkles OCs throw into these mesh concepts like a third WR running a button hook in the inside zone, so even if the inside zones pick up the crossing routes, the button hook becomes open. Or they'll send a RB into the flat where a defender who is covering the crossing route is supposed to be.
These concepts are one of the main reasons pattern recognition is so important for linebackers in today's NFL. If you understand how the offense wants to attack you, then you know your guy will only be running a handful of routes to do so. This is where Schobert, who might not have world class athleticism really excels at. He's a great coverage linebacker because of his ability to maintain his zone and not get exploited.
I mentioned earlier that there is jargon in these numbering schemes that make sense when you understand the jargon. Your list is certainly helpful for guys like me who don't/didn't know the jargon. Now I can get into trying to identify the coverage and who is responsible for what. Much appreciated.
You're welcome.
I didn't get back to you on another post where you talked about it's hard to recognize the coverages on TV. You're absolutely right because the camera doesn't give us the end zone shots of how both teams are lining up very often.
We mostly have to either be at the game or see play breakdowns similar to the stuff that Burns has been putting out there.
Yeah, I thought it was a great explanation. Now, at least I understand the very basics of Cover 2.
Next I'm gonna try to wrap my head around Cover 3....
Cover 3 is the zone coverage I hope we use the most of this year. I'll try and give another simple explanation.
--You see a lot of Cover 3 on first and second down because it's good not only against the pass, but against the run.
--It's typically run in rush 4 and drop 7 plays.
--The corner on each side is responsible for his third of the field. In high school and college, it's outside the hashes, but the hashes are closer together in the NFL.
--The corners cover the WR in their part of the field, but pass him off to others if the receiver drifts out of their zone.
--The corners typically line up about 7 yards deep.
--The FS has a very similar responsibility as he does in Cover 1. He plays deep middle and provides support over the top as well as the middle intermediate passes.
--The SS is important against the run, but can cover the TE the shallow middle, and the flat.
--If there are three LBers, one might cover the TE or the flat. The other two drop into the intermediate range on passing plays and can pick up outside receivers who venture over the middle of the field.
--I'd say the weaknesses of Cover 3 are that it isn't designed to be really strong at stopping the run or the pass and is instead designed to give you a run/pass balance. I actually like it for that reason, but it's not geared to be great against. Thus, you might want to come out of it on really short or long yardage situations. It's also not the best at stopping short passes because the corners can taken way down the field by the WR in their zone.
Does that help? I can answer more questions if need be.
Here is a basic diagram of Cover 3. I don't like how they used the phrase: "three deep safeties" because it might confuse some folks. They are talking about the FS has the deep middle and the two corners cover deep on their third of the field. Well, most of the time. This is just a basic diagram.
Here is a basic diagram of Cover 2. Maybe it will help those of you who are interested to read the Cover 2 and Cover 3 descriptions in this thread and the Cover 2 thread and then look at the diagrams. Kinda go back and forth. That should be helpful.
More specifically, one WR into each deep zone then have your TE chip and release into a seam route. The chip will add enough delay to get the WR deep and take the Safeties away, clearing the middle for the TE.
Extra credit. Run a RB or a second TE across and have him sit down in the middle and turn to stare at the QB right away to freeze the LB covering that area, then the primary TE releases into the seam with nothing near him.
Back to Cover 3 for a moment. Here is a really simple Cover 3 explanation from a high school coach.
He's not very entertaining, but if you combine his diagram w/what I said earlier, it might all come together for those of you who are interested.
I chose this video because cfrs said we are running a ton of 4-2-5 defenses so far. It's cool to see, but you can also sub a LBer in for one of the safeties who is closer to the LOS and it's a 4-3 look.
Yep. You're right because you can split the seam between the two safeties. Especially w/a TE.
Also, you are asking your safeties to cover deep WRs down the sideline. That can be devastating.
A lot of it comes down to personnel. For example, the Colts under Polian and Dungy used cover 2 as their base scheme.
Polian's philosophy was that cover corners are expensive, so why bother with those. Use the big resources (first round picks) on pass rushers and offensive players, hence Freeney, Mathis, Tarik Glenn, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and probably a few others (it's nice to be able to build around Peyton Manning.)
Since the corners' coverage ability isn't prioritized in cover 2, they could get those guys cheaply.
I'm not saying this is an ideal way to build a team mind you, just bringing it up as an example. I agree with our very skilled cornerback bunch that playing cover 2 a lot is a waste, but I do think you have to play it sometimes for variety.
Outside corners can jam/force the outside receivers inside and one of the linebackers can cover the tight end on a seam route, as in the old Tampa 2. Not my favorite defense but it can still be effective with a good pass rush.
Btw------do any of you see the weaknesses of Cover 2? It's easier to identify than Cover 3 weaknesses.
The one obvious point (based on your earlier posts) is you're having your CBs patrol areas along the LOS instead of LBs like in cover 3. That means they'll not only be hitting WRs, but also RBs and potentially fighting through blocks by linemen and FBs? Your CBs better like and know how to hit and get hit.
Also, you have a whole bunch of field covered by your safeties. What happens when you have more than 2 receivers break into those zones with the QB still able to throw the ball (rush didn't get there)? Hopefully those 2 safeties can read the QB and react quickly when the ball comes out, and have speed to close. edit: yeah, what Prp said
Browns Pro Bowler Denzel Ward vows to change tackling technique after suffering two concussions as rookie
By Nate Ulrich Posted May 22, 2019 at 2:48 PM Updated May 22, 2019 at 8:09 PM
Browns cornerback Denzel Ward, right, moves in to stop running back Dontrell Hilliard during organized team activities Wednesday in Berea. [Phil Masturzo/Beacon Journal/Ohio.com]▲
Browns cornerback Denzel Ward reels in a pass during organized team activities Wednesday in Berea. [Phil Masturzo/Beacon Journal/Ohio.com]▲
BEREA — Pro Bowl cornerback Denzel Ward has changed his tune about tackling.
After former Browns interim coach and defensive coordinator Gregg Williams publicly and privately ripped Ward last year for failing to adequately protect himself while tackling, Ward said he felt as if his technique was good. Williams wanted Ward to take out the legs of bigger opponents, but Ward didn't shy away from hitting them high.
However, Ward admitted Wednesday the second concussion he suffered in a span of three weeks late last season as a rookie opened his eyes a little bit.
"The first concussion I got really wasn't on a tackle," Ward, the fourth overall pick in last year's draft, said after the fifth practice of organized team activities. "I kind of got my head in there on two guys coming across from me. Once you get your first concussion, you're susceptible to another one. It was kind of a short period of time. I ended up getting another concussion going up against a tight end on the sideline. I just have got to be smart about the tackling."
C.J. Uzomah of the Cincinnati Bengals is the tight end who Ward hit high Dec. 23 in the Browns' 26-18 win. Ward also suffered a concussion Dec. 2 in a 29-13 loss to the Houston Texans. He missed two games after the first concussion and sat out the Dec. 30 season finale after the one against the Bengals.
Williams first criticized Ward's tackling after the Nordonia High School and Ohio State product injured his back while wrapping up Philadelphia Eagles tight end Zach Ertz in a preseason game.
"I got my head in there a few times on plays that I shouldn't," Ward said. "I think I was just trying to be too physical at times and go up against guys that were 260 [pounds]. So I just got to get lower and just tackle a lot smarter if I could."
Ward insisted he's "100 percent" healthy now and he's not worrying about the potential long-term effects of the concussions.
"I'm a football player," he said. "I like to be physical and play hard. I have to be smarter on plays when I'm going up against a player and making a tackle. I have to be more conscious of how I tackle and everything, but when I'm out there on the field, I'm playing ball. I'm giving my all."
New Browns defensive coordinator Steve Wilks viewed Ward's tackling in 2018 like Williams did.
"Denzel last year had a situation where he'd come in and throw his body around a little bit, which resulted in some concussions," Wilks said before Wednesday's practice. "So we've really got to teach these guys how to tackle.
"I think it's definitely correctable. I think it's more teaching the proper technique, and that's where we are right now in this phase of OTAs. It's really giving him the fundamentals of how to tackle in certain situations, where the ball carrier is, and I also think it's important to understand where your help is coming from, too."
General Manager John Dorsey is confident durability issues won't dog Ward throughout his career.
"You can't brush aside concussions, not in today's football. There is no way that you can do that," Dorsey said April 26. "I'm sure knowing Denzel and the type of person he is that he has done everything in his power to make sure that he will be out on that field for all 16 games."
New tandem
If Dorsey's vision comes to fruition, cornerback Greedy Williams will become a fixture in the lineup opposite Ward. Dorsey traded up three spots last month to draft Williams in the second round (46th overall) out of Louisiana State University.
Ward revealed Williams reached out to him on social media in the buildup to the draft and they began training together. Then Ward called Williams the night the Browns picked him to welcome him to the team and discussed forming a tough tandem worthy of comparison to Hanford Dixon and Frank Minnifield.
"I've heard of them. I met them as well," Ward said of the legendary Browns cornerbacks. "That's definitely something that I envision with me and Greedy — or whatever corner they put on the other side — but just being a tandem and being two guys that can lock down players on our sides of the field."
Ward said the plan and goal of the secondary is to be the best in the NFL, and superstar wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. ought to give the defensive backs an adequate trial run this summer in training camp.
"I definitely look forward to going against Odell specifically and seeing what he brings to the table," Ward said, "and I feel he's going to get me ready for the games."
Different style
Ward plans to use the experience to test himself in zone coverage, which Wilks employs more than Williams did. Ward even criticized Williams for not using enough zone last season.
"That's what I like a lot about this coaching staff. I feel that it is a balance so far," Ward said. "I feel last year we kind of got caught up in running a lot of the same things, a lot of man to man maybe on some possessions where it was kind of overdoing it. But I feel this year has been a little bit balanced in being able to play man and zone. I like to play zone as well, get vision on the football and make plays as well."
Off field
Ward is scheduled to host a free youth football camp for children in second through eighth grade from 6-10 p.m. June 7 at Nordonia High School. Registration is required at MTKYN.org, the website of Ward's new "Make Them Know Your Name" foundation, which is designed to raise awareness about heart health and honor Ward's late father, Paul, who died of cardiac arrest three years ago at age 46.
"It's definitely a dream come true," Ward said of hosting the football camp. "Coming to the NFL, I want to do things off the field as well, and being from Cleveland, it's a great opportunity to give back to my community.
"That's why I wanted it to be free, too, because it's in my community. I wanted everybody to come out."
Talk about jumping the gun. These tweets are ridiculous. It's OTAs, and this guy is acting as if Corbett is a problem. This is why I don't follow twitter. People tweet crap just so people will follow or retweet their stuff.
Rotating guys during offseason workouts is a smart move. May the best man win. But acting as if this is a concern is a reach. I saw in an interview where Bitonio was saying they had one of the FAs at center a couple times. They are building depth for the Oline, that's a good thing.
It seems like people are dying to label Corbett a bust. It's almost like they need to find something that Dorsey did wrong. It's the cynical attitude that permeates society now. Accentuate the negatives whenever possible and revel with glee over being able to say, I told you so.
Twitters a great thing and like all great things it cn be abused ... and this one abuses rather easily ... *L* ...
I was listening to a radio host yesterday and he said he has a dude that handles his twitter account .... he posts for him with his approval and its what dude does for a living ... he has many other clients ... the talk show host said sometimes his twitter dude will engage him in twitter wars with some of his other clients just to drive traffic and neither of them will have even read a tweet in the entire war .... *LOL* ...
Ingenuity at its finest ... ...
The way Grateful uses twitter is really really cool ... but man ... it has so many holes and flaws .... u talk about being able to dupe people easily ... social media has made it like taking candy from a baby ....
THANKS FOR ALL U DO GRATEFUL ... your the best ... ...
It sounds to me like the coaches are just trying to see what talent they have. There's always the chance a team could find a diamond in the rough and that's what this seems to be with me. It doesn't mean Corbett isn't good enough. It's early and we have to see what we have with all the new players. JMO
It sounds to me like the coaches are just trying to see what talent they have. There's always the chance a team could find a diamond in the rough and that's what this seems to be with me. It doesn't mean Corbett isn't good enough. It's early and we have to see what we have with all the new players. JMO
Early ?? Not even training camp yet .. Organized Team Activities .. and voluntary at that .. Some fans ( and media ) are jumping the gun a bit.
Back to Cover 3 for a moment. Here is a really simple Cover 3 explanation from a high school coach.
He's not very entertaining, but if you combine his diagram w/what I said earlier, it might all come together for those of you who are interested.
I chose this video because cfrs said we are running a ton of 4-2-5 defenses so far. It's cool to see, but you can also sub a LBer in for one of the safeties who is closer to the LOS and it's a 4-3 look.
You know........it never ceases to amaze me how very few posters want to actually discuss "football" on this board.
Not to mention that if Corbett is getting some work at Center with the 2's, SOMEBODY has to be in at RG with the 1's unless they are going to sit on the sideline waiting for Corbett.
Much ado about nothing.
If this UDFA is at RG come Training Camp, THEN we can start talking about there being an issue.
Talk about jumping the gun. These tweets are ridiculous. It's OTAs, and this guy is acting as if Corbett is a problem. This is why I don't follow twitter. People tweet crap just so people will follow or retweet their stuff.
Rotating guys during offseason workouts is a smart move. May the best man win. But acting as if this is a concern is a reach. I saw in an interview where Bitonio was saying they had one of the FAs at center a couple times. They are building depth for the Oline, that's a good thing.
It seems like people are dying to label Corbett a bust. It's almost like they need to find something that Dorsey did wrong. It's the cynical attitude that permeates society now. Accentuate the negatives whenever possible and revel with glee over being able to say, I told you so.
I agree with everything you said there...with one caveat. In THIS case with Jake Burns, it's concerning to me because Jake puts out some really good stuff with replays and breakdowns/commentary. He's speculating/projecting here, which is something I don't remember seeing from him in the past. In the end, it's still much ado about nothing at this point.
Talk about jumping the gun. These tweets are ridiculous. It's OTAs, and this guy is acting as if Corbett is a problem. This is why I don't follow twitter. People tweet crap just so people will follow or retweet their stuff.
Rotating guys during offseason workouts is a smart move. May the best man win. But acting as if this is a concern is a reach. I saw in an interview where Bitonio was saying they had one of the FAs at center a couple times. They are building depth for the Oline, that's a good thing.
It seems like people are dying to label Corbett a bust. It's almost like they need to find something that Dorsey did wrong. It's the cynical attitude that permeates society now. Accentuate the negatives whenever possible and revel with glee over being able to say, I told you so.
I agree with everything you said there...with one caveat. In THIS case with Jake Burns, it's concerning to me because Jake puts out some really good stuff with replays and breakdowns/commentary. He's speculating/projecting here, which is something I don't remember seeing from him in the past. In the end, it's still much ado about nothing at this point.
It's probably nothing like you said. If Kalis does end up playing, that is a huge concern for me. He was average at Michigan after coming in as a 5 star tackle. He was physically dominant in high school but never learned or developed proper technique or understanding to be a great lineman. Hopefully that's changed.
This is what you do during OTAs, you move guys around, get them experience at different spots, see how players fit and where. You never know when it might come in handy. Get a couple injuries on the offensive line and you may have to shuffle a couple guys around.
Frankly, I'd be more concerned if they had all the starters locked in place and didn't consider any other possibilities.
What should we think of Austin Corbett in Browns OTAs?
BEREA, Ohio -- Add another name to the list of Browns who have been absent for at least portions of OTAs. Along with Odell Beckham, Duke Johnson, Myles Garrett, Jarvis Landry, Olivier Vernon and Antonio Callaway, there’s “Austin Corbett, starting right guard.”
“Austin Corbett, backup center,” has been seen, and “Austin Corbett, starting right guard,” hasn’t been completely absent. He’s been in and out.
There’s one clear difference here. We know Beckham, Garrett, Landry and Vernon can play NFL football at an extremely high level, and Johnson and Callaway know what they’re doing, too.
“Austin Corbett, starting right guard?” He’s new. He’s never played in the NFL. While “Austin Corbett, former second-round draft choice,” has been showing up every day, the Browns are no longer interested in “Austin Corbett, former second-round draft choice.” They want “Austin Corbett, starting right guard, Kevin Zeitler replacement, piece of the puzzle for a playoff team.”
He’s not around.
• CORBETT: “If I don’t get the starting job, it’s my fault I didn’t do well”
If you want to claim OTAs in May are too early to evaluate anything, and you’re not worried about what Corbett is doing, that’s fine. Then you also must be in the camp of completely unconcerned about Beckham’s whereabouts.
If you want to believe that teams, especially teams with new head coaches, are built in May, then you should have as much concern with the Browns working Corbett, an expected starter, as a second-teamer, as you do about a Pro Bowler missing practice.
Me? I trust that the good football players don’t need May. So zero worries about Beckham. But the guys on the way up need every snap they can get, in pads or not, and if the Browns aren’t putting Corbett out there as a sure first-teamer in May, it’s because they have real questions about him as a sure first-teamer in September.
That matters. How much? Consider:
1. Allocation of assets is a vital part of team building. Ask the Indians, who have 28 starting pitchers and 1.33 productive major league hitters. John Dorsey traded from a strength (guard) to address a greater need (pass rush) in swapping Zeitler for Vernon. Zeitler and Joel Bitonio gave the Browns one of the best guard tandems in the league last year, and that showed up in the way Baker Mayfield was kept clean in the second half of the season. But is right guard the most important position on the roster? The Browns would rather be set at quarterback, defensive end, cornerback and receiver, which they are. So if there’s going to be a question mark in May, guard isn’t a bad place to have it.
2. I wrote after watching OTAs in week one that Corbett wasn’t getting the same number of first-team reps as the other O-line starters, giving way to Kyle Kalis at times. The second time we watched this week, Corbett had basically yielded the starting right guard spot to Kalis, at least for the day. So he’s going backwards. That doesn’t seem great.
3. You could spin this the other way and focus on the emergence of Kalis, a local guy, St. Ed grad and four-year starter at Michigan who went undrafted in 2017. He bounced from Washington to Indianapolis back to Washington, and then spent most of last season on the Browns practice squad before he was moved to the active roster in December.
The Browns don’t need Corbett to be a reliable starting right guard; they need someone to be a reliable starting right guard. Undrafted guys grow into productive linemen all the time in the NFL. I can’t give you a scouting report on how Kalis looks, but there are two veterans the Browns signed this offseason, Eric Kush and Bryan Witzmann, who have started at guard in the past. They’re not in for Corbett. Kalis is. So let’s assume the 25-year-old is doing something right.
4. Corbett was the first pick of the second round in 2018, chosen ahead of second-rounders like Colts linebacker Darius Leonard (the defensive rookie of the year), Tennessee pass rusher Harold Landry and Green Bay cornerback Josh Jackson. If we’re going to downplay the importance if interior linemen in analyzing the effect of Corbett on the Browns, we have to apply the same logic to the draft. Why did John Dorsey pick a college tackle who has moved to guard when he could have targeted a more valuable position? And if you believe that Corbett playing second-team center is grooming him to take over for JC Tretter next year, that’s really pushing the contribution of the 33rd pick in the draft off into the future for a team trying to win now.
Also, when the Browns traded Zeitler, they did it with Corbett in mind. He was the plan. If he’s not the guy, then the plan has changed.
5. It’s early. With players like Kush and Witzmann, the Browns do have options. More important practices are ahead. A year ago, the Browns were far more confused on the offensive line, eventually settling on undrafted rookie Desmond Harrison as the starting left tackle late in preseason. When I asked Bitonio this week when ideally the line should be settled, he said the first preseson game was optimal. That’s the second week of August.
But right now, when we watch, the Browns are putting their best players and expected starters on the first team, even in May. “Austin Corbett, starting right guard” isn’t one of them.
I'd sit up and take more notice if we start getting into training camp and the 2nd rounder is still sitting behind a UDFA.
I completely agree w/ you. I simply enjoy irony, that's all.
I don't and I don't think the team does not either...view any of these players once drafted and on the team from whence they came from.
If the UDFA kid over achieves and earns the starting position. Why is this a testimony of HOW BAD Corbett is. Could it possibly be how GOOD has Kalis become?
Technically the RG is not a hard position to transition to. So its up to the kid who Gets bigger, stronger and moves the best. The kid who communicates the best and develops the best first step. The kid who can get to the 2nd level efficiently. Why doe sit matter if its from the 2nd round investment or the UDFA...Why must some of you view it as a negative rather than a positive. ITS A POSITIVE if ANYONE succeeds! The main point is that Somebody succeeds! If so then we have filled that position successfully!!
Well it's certainly an area of concern and something to keep an eye on. I've expressed some reservations about trading Zeitler before. That said, shuffling a few guys around on the line during OTAs in May is really not that big of a deal.
As everyone understands, Corbett is not going to be handed a starting job, which almost necessarily means that other guys are going to get a few first-team reps here and there.
Look, this boards members have always overvalued Corbett as a contributor from the day the team selected him, in my opinion, I recall he was drafted as an O lineman, and the immediate next two picks in that draft were also O lineman, interior I think, and eyeball test, the other two looked better, more dominant, and more physical as manhandlers, So what does that add up to?
Nothing, it's just my eyeball opinion, but since then, the whole boards consensous seems to be he deserves some sort of respect more than what he's done "so far" in the NFL, and I'd guess the memebers of this board are asigining it, because it's so hard to figure, the Browns may have whiffed/blown/or messed up a 2nd pick on the day.
I'm not going to Blame Dorsey, I don't know who was the decision maker on picking Corbett, we know he came out of Nevada, I'd guess he coulda took some of Bitonio's time if he was really good, last year, fact is, Corbett barely played, I think.
Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss, even 1st round picks are dudds, some of the time, ask Justin Gilbert.
I don't want to put down a guy we haven't seen play yet, but if Sione Taki Taki was a consensous good pick,
you wouldn't have had people scrambling to make excusses as to why they took him, with the loudest voice being Asistant GM, Eliot Wolfe.
If Kush, Lamm, Witzman, or Calais end up the starting Rg then, well I kind of expect it at this point.
Only reason to fret if Corbett doesn't turn out to be something is if you'd built up expectations with Orange and Brown glasses based on the number of his overall pick in April.
It's the NFL, it's not just handed to people... usually.
But right now, when we watch, the Browns are putting their best players and expected starters on the first team, even in May. “Austin Corbett, starting right guard” isn’t one of them.
I have no idea if Corbett is good or not. I have no idea if he is going to start or not.
What I do know is that Lesmerisis is a hack. He's a gossip columnist who doesn't give us any real football. He isn't telling us what Corbett is doing wrong. He isn't telling us what others are doing better. Instead, he sees that Corbett isn't running w/the ones all the time at RG and he goes on a dramatic rant.
It would be nice if he could tell us whether or not Corbett is missing assignments. Or, if his footwork is really bad. Or, his technique. Or, if he is too slow.
Nah, he just dramatizes a situation where guys are rotating at the only spot on the line that doesn't have a returning starter.
the only positive thing I saw in that steaming pile of hot garbage written was the fact he talked about the St. Ed's kid Kalis who will find a way to be on the roster for his hometown team.
Other than that, I don't understand why anyone continues to promote cleveland.com they are horrid writers
Steve Wilks was talking leadership last week before the Browns’ fifth of nine OTAs, and the usual suspects from Cleveland’s defense rattled off his tongue.
There was Myles Garrett, a Pro Bowler who nearly set the team’s single-season sack record last season. There was Denzel Ward, a Pro Bowler as a rookie who has looked every bit the part of the lockdown corner every defense covets.
And then there was Jermaine Whitehead, who is on his fourth team in as many years and boasts two career starts. A waiver claim midway through last season, Whitehead has impressed his new defensive coordinator despite playing just six snaps on defense thus far in his time with the Browns.
It’s a new year, and Whitehead is making the most of it.
“I’m not surprised at all,” Wilks said. “He has been in the league for a while, been on several teams. It just shows who he is as an individual. He puts in a lot of time into his craft. He studies the game a lot, and it really shows out on the field.
“You don’t have to be that quote on quote guy that everybody looks at. I want all those guys to be leaders when they are out there on that field because we need everybody communication, talking being on the same page.”
Leadership comes in all shapes and sizes on a football team, especially when the rosters are at 90. At the back end of Cleveland’s defense, it’s coming from, among other places, two voices who are relatively new to Browns fans.
Along with Whitehead, veteran Morgan Burnett has been lauded for the presence he’s provided since signing with the team last month. Entering his 10th season, Burnett appears to have plenty left in the tank and looks to be the frontrunner to replace Jabrill Peppers, who was dealt to the Giants in the trade that landed All-Pro wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr., at strong safety.
The Browns return Damarious Randall at free safety but are otherwise poised to count on a handful of new faces at the position. On a team with lofty expectations, Burnett stands out as one of the few who has real, extensive playoff experience.
“He is a definition of a leader,” Kitchens said. “He kind of gets those guys together. He has been through the fire. I like guys that have been in fights – like been in the fight, not in fights.
“I like guys that have been in the battle or battle tested. Coach (Bill) Parcells used to say all the time that he wants to leave training camp and his team be battle tested. That is what we want to get to.”
Burnett, who played eight of his nine seasons in Green Bay -- a familiar place for some of the highest-ranking members of Cleveland’s front office -- has been through enough OTAs to know the optimism flowing through the Browns facility is not unique. Even in places where the rosters aren’t brimming with as much talent as Cleveland has acquired in the past two years, expectations are high at this point of the offseason. Everyone’s undefeated.
It’s how the team responds when the games matter, and Burnett has played in plenty of those.
“All 32 teams feel like they have what it takes,” Burnett said. “That’s why we come out here and work every day. It’s all about stacking success and slowly working that arrow upwards and keep finding a way to get better each day and not get ahead of ourselves.”
What a throw and catch...and that was to our now #4 WR...boy has times changed.
Baker has a knack for putting the ball in impossible places at exactly the right moment in time. I have no idea how he does that. But he does it all the time.
In the 4-2-5 alignment seems like Jermaine Whitehead is going to see the field a lot this season.
How Jermaine Whitehead emerged as a potential starter in the Browns’ new defense: Doug Lesmerises Updated 6:08 AM; Posted May 29, 3:45 PM Cleveland Browns' Jermaine Whitehead eyes the offensive formation before the snap during Day 5 of OTAs, May 22, 2019, in Berea. (John Kuntz, cleveland.com) cleveland.com
Cleveland Browns' Jermaine Whitehead eyes the offensive formation before the snap during Day 5 of OTAs, May 22, 2019, in Berea. (John Kuntz, cleveland.com)
25 77 shares By Doug Lesmerises, cleveland.com
BEREA, Ohio -- Last year in Arizona, new Browns defensive coordinator Steve Wilks played three safeties on most of the defensive snaps during his one year as the head coach of the Cardinals. This year, figure Damarious Randall and Morgan Burnett as the two starters at the deep safety spots for the Browns, but you still need a third safety to put on the field most of the time, often near the line of scrimmage.
Who? The guy Wilks singled out as one of the leaders of the defense during OTAs, even though Wilks is just getting to know him and most Browns fans hadn’t heard of him before this spring.
Jermaine Whitehead.
What’s his deal?
“Extremely smart. Very intelligent. Takes control when he is out there," Wilks said. "Knows how to really communicate and articulate the defense and get everybody on the same page.”
If you know the defensive starters should be Myles Garrett and Olivier Vernon at end, and Larry Ogunjobi and Sheldon Richardson at tackle (unless Gerald McCoy signs and mixes in), and Joe Schobert and Christian Kirksey at linebacker, and Denzel Ward and either Terence Mitchell or Greedy Williams at corner, and Randall and Burnett at deep safety, then the Browns need a primary 11th guy.
So much on defense is a sub package now that getting stuck on the idea of starters is antiquated. But your best 11 when it matters is a big deal. So here’s one point, which you may already know. I’m not sure who the Browns’ third linebacker is, because they don’t have one. In two OTAs that reporters have watched, I didn’t see a snap with a third true linebacker. Again, no surprise, but make sure you realize it.
That means that 11th guy could be a true corner like T.J. Carrie, who makes a lot of sense covering slot receivers and ranked fifth on the team last year in defensive snaps. Carrie has seen a lot of OTA time. But the other option is Whitehead, and he fits the scheme that Wilks chose a year ago. Arizona played 5-foot-10, 195-pound safety Budda Baker near the line of scrimmage a lot last season in that three-safety look, and to double-check, I asked Wilks if that’s what the 5-11, 195-pound Whitehead could do in Cleveland.
Yep. That’s the potential fit. That’s what Wilks has shown he prefers. It’s clear the impression Whitehead has made on Wilks in a short time.
“He’s been in the league for a while, been on several teams. It just shows who he is as an individual,” Wilks said of Whitehead’s efforts so far. "He puts a lot of time into his craft. He studies the game a lot, and it really shows out on the field.”
Whitehead confirmed he loves being around the line of scrimmage, and said the Browns have a name for that package, but he didn’t want to share it. But they use it a lot. When near the line of scrimmage, Whitehead could be seen blitzing one play, covering a tight end the next and helping in run support on another, where he’s a willing tackler.
“Tight ends in the league are becoming more like glorified receivers, so we try to match up with those guys with a safety and put guys in position where we’ve got the advantage,” Whitehead told cleveland.com. “I just like being the ultimate playmaker. Even if I don’t make the play, I can help my teammate make the play. I’m definitely great around the line of scrimmage, definitely great when the ball is in the air.
“But I don’t like to brag about myself. I’d rather prove it. But hopefully when the season comes, I’ll be someone to watch.”
You’re forgiven if you’re wondering how the 26-year-old Whitehead, who was undrafted out of Auburn in 2015 and is entering his fifth season of bouncing around the league, is suddenly worth watching. The Browns signed Whitehead on Nov. 7 last year after he was released by Green Bay the day after slapping New England offensive lineman David Andrews after a play, which led to his ejection.
Not the most egregious act ever seen on a football field. But the Packers also put out the word that Whitehead, after spending most of 2016 and 2017 on the Green Bay practice squad, didn’t fit what they wanted, looking instead for “someone with true safety ability and better size,” according to one report.
They had liked him enough to give him 221 defensive snaps during his eight games in Green Bay in 2018. The Browns played him just seven defensive snaps after they signed him. But now, with a fresh start under a new staff, it looks like the Browns are ready to count on him.
“This is the breakthrough point in my career,” Whitehead said. “I think coming to this situation I see the rights and the wrongs done by me and I’m trying to correct those every day here.”
He’s another part of the connection to Green Bay, where John Dorsey right-hand men Alonzo Highsmith and Eliot Wolf worked before coming to Cleveland. Dorsey also worked in Green Bay before he became the GM in Kansas City, and this front office has shown it likes guys that they know. Randall and Burnett also came to Cleveland from Wisconsin, so it’s possible this three-safety look could be made up of all former Packers.
It’s just that Whitehead hadn’t done much. He was in San Francisco and Baltimore before landing in Green Bay. Then in the midst of his first shot at real playing time, he was suddenly done.
Whitehead said Highsmith and Wolf liked him in Green Bay. He said Randall and Burnett are great teammates and they play well together because of their familiarity. So he started with the second team when OTAs began. Then, like that, he was running with the ones.
When we saw Whitehead last week, Burnett was on the side with an injury, so Whitehead was working at first-team deep safety with Randall. The week before, Burnett and Randall were typically paired together and Whitehead was in that third safety role closer to the line.
He can play either. One way or another, it looks like he’s going to play. He’s certainly acting like it.
“He’s shown a lot of range back there,” Denzel Ward said of Whitehead, “and a lot of communication. That’s what you like as a corner, somebody that’s going to talk to you and get you in the right formation and right coverage, so I’m liking Whitehead back there.”
So is Wilks. The new boss of the defense knows how he wants to play. In Whitehead, he seems to have found someone to help him do that.
If you know the defensive starters should be Myles Garrett and Olivier Vernon at end, and Larry Ogunjobi and Sheldon Richardson at tackle (unless Gerald McCoy signs and mixes in), and Joe Schobert and Christian Kirksey at linebacker, and Denzel Ward and either Terence Mitchell or Greedy Williams at corner, and Randall and Burnett at deep safety, then the Browns need a primary 11th guy.
So much on defense is a sub package now that getting stuck on the idea of starters is antiquated. But your best 11 when it matters is a big deal. So here’s one point, which you may already know. I’m not sure who the Browns’ third linebacker is, because they don’t have one. In two OTAs that reporters have watched, I didn’t see a snap with a third true linebacker. Again, no surprise, but make sure you realize it.
That means that 11th guy could be a true corner like T.J. Carrie, who makes a lot of sense covering slot receivers and ranked fifth on the team last year in defensive snaps. Carrie has seen a lot of OTA time. But the other option is Whitehead, and he fits the scheme that Wilks chose a year ago. Arizona played 5-foot-10, 195-pound safety Budda Baker near the line of scrimmage a lot last season in that three-safety look, and to double-check, I asked Wilks if that’s what the 5-11, 195-pound Whitehead could do in Cleveland.
Yep. That’s the potential fit. That’s what Wilks has shown he prefers. It’s clear the impression Whitehead has made on Wilks in a short time.
I'm not sure why you have to have a "primary 11th guy" in the first place. I'll go with the idea of ten more solid/secure starters-- 4 linemen, 2 backers, 2 corners, 2 safeties (not set in stone either but I get where it's coming from)-- but the 11th guy is obviously dependent on offensive personnel.
Did they come out with two backs on third and one? Nobody likes 'base' defense anymore but you might want to consider putting that third 'backer in there.
Or maybe it's 3rd and 10 and they come out with 3 receivers with at least a couple of them being shifty/speed type guys... good time to come out with 3 corners, at least. I'd actually expect to come out in 3 corners more often than 3 safeties. It's an 11 personnel (3 wide) league and we're better at corner anyway.
Sometimes you need a 'tweener guy in there yourself, someone to mix it up in the run game or to cover a big slot guy that might be too fast for a linebacker, but too big for a corner, so you put a third safety in. I'd be surprised if that ended up being the 'primary' 11th guy or our base personnel, however you want to define all that.
I hope everyone realizes that sub-packages exist for rosters whose base personnel aren't suited to defending certain offensive packages or alignments, right?
You don't run a lot of sub-packages just because the NFL now runs a lot of sub-packages..... you run a lot of them when you don't have the talent/personnel to just leave folks out there and still get the job done. Beyond that, the only real "subbing" should be to give guys a breather.
Not sure that I agree with all that. In most cases, I actually think it is better to match up with the offense than it is to put your best 11 out there.
For example, if a team comes out in 3 wide, I'm coming out in nickel to match, or sometimes even dime/quarter depending on the game situation. What I wouldn't do is come out in 4-3, or very rarely for that matter. I would rather play nickel even if it meant taking a good linebacker off the field and replacing him with a mediocre corner (or in some cases, a safety.)
edit: of course there's more to it than that. For example, one of those linebackers might move down to end in some packages, sliding that end over to tackle and you're actually taking a defensive interior off the field. Match ups/fatigue/injury/game situations all factor in here.
That depends upon whether you are reacting to what they show or trying to force them to react to what you've got.
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Match ups/fatigue/injury/game situations all factor in here.
And all of those depend upon what you have at your disposal.
If you have two really solid CB's with two Safeties that can cover and a crew of LBers that can cover.... do you REALLY need to go Nickel if they trot out a 3rd WR or do you feel like you have the horses to match up with them, bring the pressure, and still shut the down?
Of course, the answer is in who THEIR personnel are and how much respect you have to pay them, but the point still holds that you don't sub for the sake of subbing... you sub only if something FORCES you to do so, but then you need to try to sub in a manner that allows you a counter-punch to what they are forcing on you.
That depends upon whether you are reacting to what they show or trying to force them to react to what you've got.
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Match ups/fatigue/injury/game situations all factor in here.
And all of those depend upon what you have at your disposal.
If you have two really solid CB's with two Safeties that can cover and a crew of LBers that can cover.... do you REALLY need to go Nickel if they trot out a 3rd WR or do you feel like you have the horses to match up with them, bring the pressure, and still shut the down?
It can be done. Whether or not it should be done is another question and not always easy to answer.
Say for instance that a team often uses a quick/shifty guy as a slot/3rd receiver. Say we're in 4-3 but want to play man, who covers that guy? He's going to easily beat a linebacker. A safety can take him but that can be an awkward position to defend from. This simplifies the coverages which a smart QB can diagnose and find the mismatch. Found this: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/2017-defensive-personnel-analysis
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2017 Defensive Personnel Analysis by Bryan Knowles
Earlier this week, we looked at what personnel groupings were most popular on offense. Now it's time to turn around and look at things from a defensive standpoint. In a league where three wideouts has become not just the most popular formation but the default formation, how have defenses reacted?
Just as three-wide formations have become the offensive default, nickel defenses are now the NFL's primary defensive formation. Nickel first became more prevalent than base defenses in 2012, and became a majority of all plays in 2015. There's a reason the AP All-Pro team added an extra "defensive back" position in 2016; slot corners are now more likely to see the field than your seventh guy in your front seven.
Base defenses remain more effective on the whole, though that is misleading. Nickel packages are by a significant margin better at handling 11 personnel (0.8% DVOA for nickel, 8.4% DVOA for base sets), so it makes sense that that would become the most played defense. Base personnel are still better at handling things like two-tight end sets, resulting in better overall DVOA. Nickel is the best defense for defending the most popular offense, so it has become the most popular scheme
Of course, this doesn't take into account differences in quality of personnel, but overall, nickel is far more effective than base at defending 3 wide sets.
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Of course, the answer is in who THEIR personnel are and how much respect you have to pay them, but the point still holds that you don't sub for the sake of subbing... you sub only if something FORCES you to do so, but then you need to try to sub in a manner that allows you a counter-punch to what they are forcing on you.
I see your point here, to an extent. I don't think I'd say FORCES as that's a bit... forceful. Defense in the NFL is inherently reactionary. Offenses bring in different personnel groupings and the defense reacts to that based on what those players' strengths are, the game situation, and sure.. even the strengths of the defense. Defense is also generally more tiring than offense which is why defenses sub more throughout the game (especially on the lines) and still end up more tired in the 4th.
If you have to rotate guys in throughout the game anyway, why not match up with the offense? Usually that means putting a corner on a receiver, though not always. Sometimes the distinction between a wide receiver and tight end is not so clear, or the distinctions between a corner/safety or safety/linebacker. We should think more in terms of of the skills and attributes of the players and less so their labeled positions.
BEREA, Ohio -- Spring football can be all about opportunity for some down the depth chart. Sometimes it’s an opportunity to try a new position. Sometimes it’s an opportunity to play in place of a player (or players) who aren’t there or who can’t get on the field.
That’s where a number of Browns receivers down the depth chart found themselves on Thursday, the Browns’ final practice of organized team activities and the third practice of OTAs open to the media.
Odell Beckham Jr. wasn’t there. Neither was Antonio Callaway. Jarvis Landry was on the sideline.
So that means there are reps to be had with the first team which means reps with the starting quarterback, Baker Mayfield. Ask Rashard Higgins how valuable those spring reps with Mayfield were a year ago.
“It’s huge because you get the reps with Baker,” wide receivers coach Adam Henry said, “so it’s a huge thing.”
It also creates opportunities for players a few notches down, players playing with the second team who otherwise might not get that opportunity. Depth charts in the spring are fluid, but opportunity always matters.
Here are 8 observations on the offensive side of the ball from Thursday’s practice:
1. The offensive highlight of the day came from one of those receivers, a long touchdown throw from Mayfield to Ishmael Hyman during two-minute. It was a near-perfect throw by Mayfield and the James Madison product caught the ball on his fingertips and ran into the endzone.
Jaelen Strong was also receiving work with the first team.
2. Another receiver worth mentioning: Dorian Baker. He proved a reliable target throughout practice on Thursday.
3. Drew Stanton is doing the bulk of the work with the second team. Terrance Mitchell got him on an interception, but he appears locked in as the primary backup.
4. Let’s give some love to David Blough here because you’ll see plenty of him when the preseason games begin. Blough threw a nice ball to wide receiver D.J. Montgomery in the red zone. Blough and Garrett Gilbert will battle for the third quarterback spot.
5. Seth DeValve, working mostly with the second unit, made some catches. The real test for DeValve will come when the pads go on at the end of July.
6. It was Kyle Kalis at right guard with the first team and Austin Corbett at center with the second team again on Thursday. That was the setup a week ago, too, the last time practice was open to the media. Head coach Freddie Kitchens downplayed it, saying the two have rotated and the media has just happened to be present on the days when Kalis was working at first-team right guard.
7. If you’re scoring at home, Kendall Lamm worked with the second team at left tackle.
8. Not in attendance today alongside Beckham and Callaway: David Njoku and Duke Johnson.
BEREA, Ohio – Scribbles in my notebook from the Browns’ organized team activities (OTAs), the last voluntary workout:
1. Freddie Kitchens drew some headlines by admitting Odell Beckham Jr. has missed “a lot” by skipping the voluntary practices. The Browns coach gave some very terse replies to questions about his new receiver.
2. My guess is none of this will matter much in the summer once veteran’s camp opens. But watching the workouts open to the media, Baker Mayfield has been throwing to a lot of receivers who probably won’t make the team. Jarvis Landry, meanwhile, has missed several workouts with an unspecified injury. Antonio Callaway has been hit-and-miss in terms of showing up.
3. In Thursday’s OTA, Mayfield’s main target was Rashard Higgins. You can see the close relationship between the two men when they interact on the field. Damion Ratley and Derrick Willies had some good moments in earlier workouts. Both were present Thursday, but not playing because of unspecified injuries.
4. Mayfield threw a long pass to Ishmael Hyman for a TD. I know...who? Hyman played at James Madison. He played in the defunct Alliance of American Football League. Standing out more than Hyman was Cleveland Heights product Dorian Baker, an undrafted receiver out of Kentucky.
5. The impressive part is how Mayfield is connecting with these receivers, especially in a two-minute, no-huddle offense. Baker has good hands and is making the most of this opportunity. But the Browns obviously would like to see Mayfield throwing to some receivers now who will be on the field when it counts in the fall.
6. In the end, Beckham and Landry are experienced veterans. Mayfield is a gifted QB. They can figure it out. But they are installing a new offense...and Beckham is new to the Browns.
7. I talked with Browns running backs coach Stump Mitchell, who mentioned he tried to recruit Duke Johnson. That was when Mitchell was a head coach at Southern University. He praised Johnson not only as a pass catching back, but also as a runner: “He’s elusive. He can make people miss. He can be physical. He’s a heckuva receiver...but he has to fit in the scheme...it’s a new regime here.”
8. Mitchell said he would like have liked Johnson in camp now: “When you don’t come, you give someone else an opportunity to play...now that guy can take advantage of that opportunity. Dontrell Hilliard has done that...I like everything about him.”
9. Mitchell said Hilliard has even been filling in at receiver “because he can run routes and catch the ball.” Mitchell added that Kitchens told him: “I really like this kid (Hilliard). I know he has some talent. It’s my job to make him reach that level."
10. Mitchell mentioned that Hilliard is doing things in the offense the coaching staff had designed for Johnson, “and doing a dang-good job, too.”
11. The Browns have been gushing about Hilliard dating back to last season. They also believe he’s an asset on special teams. I don’t think this is just praising Hilliard to make Johnson uncomfortable. They like Hilliard, and that makes Johnson expendable.
12. Mitchell said the Browns are working on throwing more passes to Chubb, and you can see that in practice. You also can see Chubb making excellent catches. Mitchell told me: “He could be a 1,000-yard rusher and a 1,000-yard receiver, but we have so much talent (they don’t need him to do that much). But he is that good.”
13. The Browns are downplaying how Kyle Kalis has been playing with the starters at right guard – at least when the media has been allowed to watch practice in the last two weeks. Austin Corbett was projected to start at that spot, replacing the traded Kevin Zeitler.
14. This certainly isn’t to dismiss Corbett’s chances, but it’s obvious the coaches like Kalis. The St. Edward product, the son of former NFL lineman Todd Kalis, was an undrafted free agent out of Michigan in 2017. He spent a little time with Washington and Indianapolis before signing with the Browns during last season. He is making an impact.
15. Offensive line coach James Campen explained that Corbett has been with the starters at right guard in the several workouts not seen by the media. Campen also likes Corbett at center. The Browns are looking for a backup to starting center JC Tretter, who played the last half of the season with a high ankle sprain in 2018.
Its OTA's...the kid will be a ST stud hopefully. If he can put in some quality reps when we get some injuries on D that is fine, I don't expect much else from him.
Kalis...good to here looks like he is our RG unless somebody can unseat him. I can care less where he came from - btw Sean O'Hare where was he drafted and he made the Pro Bowl I believe.
As I said if I guy works hard and is strong and can use his quickness, work on technique. Improve on his foot work, he can come from No where and became good and most important a PIECE of the PUZZLE as OL is a UNIT.
Corbett, I don't think he is even in the running. Happy for Kalis and hope he has a chip on his shoulder. I also like the fact he is a local kid!
#3 (Stanton as our primary back-up) makes me feel a bit uneasy. I know one of the other two could step up, or I guess we could pick up a veteran in July, but thinking we're one hit away from a Stanton led offense is a bit concerning. I like the guy, and by all accounts he's a great teammate, but I don't know......
From today's OTA Scribbles:
#9-#11 make me happy (especially the route running part). No matter what happens with Duke, it's good to know that Hilliard is taking good advantage of the opportunities this staff are giving him thus far.
Stump really made it a point to put in a plug for Hilliard. And to add the comment that Duke not being here is giving other folks a shot to take your spot.. I wasn't expecting to hear that. Stump calls a spade a spade
What I got from this. 1. This was 2 years ago as a rookie I think he had 3 starts?
2. When he kept a good knee bend and had his feet moving from the snap...he was pretty good. When he didn't move a step and reacted to the Defenders moves....he got beat badly...btw Luck is freaking good as each bad beat seemed to be completed anyways!
3. Also I would like to bring up the FACT that as a rookie and in his rare starts he was THINKING after the snap which played a lot into his lack of movement from the lower half of the body.
4. the kid is freaking Strong and I could care less about the 30 reps, he was kick butt strong on the OL.
5. I can see now in his 3rd season and his football intelligence increasing also being with the team for the entire year which means he was with Kitchens from day one so has familiarity with his offense.
I did think he tipped his hand on a lot of his pulls. I think his intelligence is going to play a big hand in his pass blocking results. What we saw 2 years ago is probably not what we will get now. I think Kitchens is being impressed with his intelligence in the schemes we are putting out there. HE GETS IT. I feeling better and better with what we got to replace Zeitler.
#3 (Stanton as our primary back-up) makes me feel a bit uneasy. I know one of the other two could step up, or I guess we could pick up a veteran in July, but thinking we're one hit away from a Stanton led offense is a bit concerning. I like the guy, and by all accounts he's a great teammate, but I don't know......
From today's OTA Scribbles:
#9-#11 make me happy (especially the route running part). No matter what happens with Duke, it's good to know that Hilliard is taking good advantage of the opportunities this staff are giving him thus far.
When you have a good starter at QB, any back-up makes me nervous. That said, I like Stantons experience. He has started and won games. He knows he is in to manage the game. He has done that in the past. Plus, him or anyone else we might put in, they know how to hand off so we will rely a bit more on the backs and grunts on the line.
#3 (Stanton as our primary back-up) makes me feel a bit uneasy. I know one of the other two could step up, or I guess we could pick up a veteran in July, but thinking we're one hit away from a Stanton led offense is a bit concerning. I like the guy, and by all accounts he's a great teammate, but I don't know......
From today's OTA Scribbles:
#9-#11 make me happy (especially the route running part). No matter what happens with Duke, it's good to know that Hilliard is taking good advantage of the opportunities this staff are giving him thus far.
When you have a good starter at QB, any back-up makes me nervous. That said, I like Stantons experience. He has started and won games. He knows he is in to manage the game. He has done that in the past. Plus, him or anyone else we might put in, they know how to hand off so we will rely a bit more on the backs and grunts on the line.
I agree.
As far as the Guard who has played a bit as a starter at times ..... big deal. It's OTAs, where there is no contact ... so I am not all that excited. The kid they have tried atg RG has been a miserable pass blocker, with an incredible error rate forced into playing. I fully expect Corbett to start at RG when the season starts.
It will be more interesting to see how things wash out at mini-camp.
When you have a good starter at QB, any back-up makes me nervous.
It's just nice to see the tables have turned. Gone are the days of our starter being so crappy that the backup is the one glimmer of hope for competitive football!
I have no clue what to think of the thing with Corbett ... no clue if its a red flag or why its happening ... but here’s the thing ...
If Kalis does beat him out is it because Corbett isn’t living up to a 2nd round pick yet and is disappointing or is it just that Kalis has improved in his 2 or 3 years in the league and is now actually a dang good RG ...
We have NO CLUE at this point exactly what it means if Kalis does win the job or if its even something that has a chance to happen ... whats going on now could simply be that if Tretter goes down we feel that moving Corbett over and plugging Kalis in is our best option so we want them to get some reps with that alignment ...
I really have no clue what this means or what to think other than its not time to panic just yet ... ...
First, there is something to it whether people want to believe it or not. All you have to do is judge Corbett by his own words. His quote is "if I don't win the job, I'll have no one to blame but myself"...something to that effect. I take that to mean the coaches have spoken to him and want to see more. Until they see it he's not starting.
However, if Kalis is the guy that means he's the better player so who cares. Play the best players. Baker and Freddie are going to make these guys look better than they are anyways.
Corbett and Kalis were both here last year...and therefore here when Zeitler was traded. Maybe JD & Co - along with Campen at OL Coach - saw that both guys were viable at RG/C and they are both being given a chance to compete?
Also...Kalis was hand-picked by LeCharles Bentley to go to LCB's academy for OL. LCB picks the attendees...not the other way around. He must have seen something he liked.
I think it's silly that anyone thinks you "win a starting position" based on work outs that have zero contact. Reading anything into it is a part of the silly season though I suppose.
For people to say Corbett is a second round bust is absurd IMO.
There was no way he was going to start at the guard position last year over Zeitler or Bitonio.
He was drafted to develop at guard and center. And Dorsey had no intention of paying Zeitler huge money over a long period of time.
This time of year with no pads is used to see what versatility players offer. They want to know if they lose a guy to injury who can step in.
Example, what happens if Tretter goes down? Who is best suited to replace him? So, they work Corbett there. See how he does. If he only played RG who then would step in to that position? They want to look at Kalis see what he can do.
It is nothing but planning for worst case scenario.
When the pads go on the competition for starting RG will begin.
And if Kalis where to win the job that does not mean Corbett is a bust if he is a strong backup at two positions.
People are reading way more into this right now than what is really there.
Calling Corbett a bust right now is ridiculous but let's not try and convince ourselves that being a "strong backup" in the end won't be a bust. Being the first pick in the second round comes with expectations and it doesn't end with backup guard satisfaction. Not to mention we traded away one of the best guards in the entire NFL (when interior pass rushing is becoming increasingly important to defend) to give him his opportunity.
YTown...Corbett is not a seasoned veteran and has not taken many reps at RG. What behooves you to think that he is just passing his time until he gets in there and wins the starting position of RG.
OL you want to start the new guy especially one who has never been deemed a starter. FROM DAY ONE. If our Coaching staff thought he is going to be our starter. Guess what he would be starting there from the get go.
Granted I've always suggested that you got to make your OL decisions after they start hitting. But in the case of our current situation. All LT, LG, C and RT are returning. Pass Pro along with our running plays need familiarity with each other.
The fact that so far Kalis is taking ALL the #1 reps tells me the opposite of what you suggest.
I know you saw some low lights of what I saw where he did not move his feet in pass situations and got beat. I cannot express how much that is of a Rookie getting starting reps and is thinking of his duties. Nothing slows down the feet more than a OLman thinking and not reacting.
Obviously to me in his 3rd season he is more comfortable in his duties and his football knowledge has accelerated where he is taking all the #1 reps at RG. You saw 3 plays and have made a negative assumption on what we are going to see all the time.
I think our Pocket is going to be moving and we will also be seeing an importance of a strong Interior to keep the wall consistently intact. What we must also have is a RG who KNOWS his responsibilities in each situation at hand picking up switches/blitzes and is 2 steps ahead of the defense.
There is more cerebral abilities needed in this process and although I am not there I IMAGINE that is what our coaches have seen in Kalis. I like this kid and the prospects he presents.
jmho if Corbett was in our plans - HE would be taking all the reps not Kalis.
The fact that so far Kalis is taking ALL the #1 reps...
I agree with a lot of what you posted....but...according to FK...the above is not what is happening at all. FK has said that the above has been the case on the day-of-the-week open to the media...not all other days. Coincidence? Who knows? Just FYI-ing.
You do realize that OTAs, for the OL, are next to nothing, right? There is no contact whatsoever. None. Zero. Zilch.
Remember Wiley's "Set Hut" from last year? That's about it. It's basic position drills, with no hitting, no contact.
It's like deciding who wins the PGA tour by watching players at an indoor driving range, or who wins a starting NBA job by watching free throw work only. It's like awarding a baseball job based solely on how a kid hits a coach in batting practice.
Have you watched the practice videos? There is more OL/DL contact in a flag football game.
Look, I am not saying that Corbett is a sure thing, because I don't know that. I also don't know that he is somehow a bust, based on OTA work. I do know that this Kalis kid had been a solid run blocker, and a lousy, and I mean lousy, pass blocker. One of his biggest concerns is whether or not he can handle the mental side of the game. The OTA is a perfect situation to see if he has improved in that regard, at all, or not. We'll see.
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