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Just read this on Peter King's Monday Morning QB's. And he seems to understand. (NOTE: I said SEEMS to understand). I know yesterday's kicking is pretty hard to stomach and fresh in all of our minds. But we can't place all of the blame on the QB. Stop the knee jerk reactions and come to the realization that not all of the blame goes to Frye. Yeah, he held the ball too long, threw into triple coverage and basically panicked. Those of you who want to see Quinn turn out like Couch can continue to call for him. But the reality is, he needs time. There you have it. Go ahead fire away and torch me if you want. web page 4. I think, still, that Romeo Crennel has to stand strong and not put Quinn on the field. Not yet, anyway. Four of the next five games, before Cleveland's bye, come against teams that finished in the NFL's top 10 in defensive rankings last year. "Our whole thought was Charlie [Frye] and Derek [Anderson] keeping us functional through the tough part of our schedule,'' Savage told me. And now? "If you ask 70,000 people in our stadium today, the process got accelerated. We'll meet [Monday morning] and discuss it. But I think you run into trouble if you change your plans after one game. Back in 1999, we lost to Pittsburgh 43-0 in the first game of the season with Ty Detmer playing and we threw Tim Couch in there. You saw how that turned out. Once Brady goes in, that's it; there's no turning back. To do it after the first week ...'' Look, the Browns know this season's a wash. Frye got sacked five times in the first 23 minutes against Pittsburgh. Do you want the kid shellshocked in September, or do you want him to play after he's had more than 92 snaps (the real number) with the first unit since he signed his contract?
And the next head coach is ......
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Go ahead fire away and torch me if you want.
Torch you for what? Making sense?
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That's for those calling for Quinn to start!
And the next head coach is ......
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I'd also like to point out that even if Crennel had wanted Quinn to play yesterday, he was listed as inactive, at least according to www.KFFL.com.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I agree with this 100%. I don't want to see this kid ruined like Couch/Carr....
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So who do you think SHOULD start?
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Yeah because I love losing I want to keep Frye and Anderson playing.
We have a good line (Those inflated sack numbers were due to Frye) and decent receivers and a pro-bowl quality tight end... We don't have a QB...
![[Linked Image from i4.photobucket.com]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Defiantmac/nickk2.jpg) PRO-BOWLER!
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Anyone who thinks Quinn starting next week is a good idea have no clue what is going on. Get this through your thick skulls. Charlie Frye is the whipping boy until the team is good enough to protect Quinn and until he can protect himself. Sorry, Charlie, but it is true. However, he is playing a vital part in the progression of the team so I respect him for taking so much crap on and off the field. I hope he starts the entire season, giving the team and Quinn more time. The Browns weren't going to playoffs this year anyway, so everyone can just stop their bitching and excercise some patience and wisdom . . . if possible.
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I'd also like to point out that even if Crennel had wanted Quinn to play yesterday, he was listed as inactive, at least according to www.KFFL.com.
I'd like to point out that NFL teams can only list 45 active players on gameday. It is common practice to have your 3rd string QB listed as inactive but he can enter the game during the 4th quarter even though he is listed as "inactive."
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Yeah because I love losing I want to keep Frye and Anderson playing.
We have a good line (Those inflated sack numbers were due to Frye) and decent receivers and a pro-bowl quality tight end... We don't have a QB...
I'm torn.
Many successful qbs have started their first years or very early on and went on to be fine.
I think Couch's problem was playing on an expansion team behind a sorry OLine and quite honestly, not being that good.
I think we could start BQ next week, and he would be alright.
I also don't find fault with Savage and RAC not wanting to take any chances with this and get it wrong either.
As Savage said, there's no turning back after we make the switch.
Then again, that might not be a bad thing.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I'm torn.
Many successful qbs have started their first years or very early on and went on to be fine.
I think Couch's problem was playing on an expansion team behind a sorry OLine and quite honestly, not being that good.
I think we could start BQ next week, and he would be alright.
I also don't find fault with Savage and RAC not wanting to take any chances with this and get it wrong either.
As Savage said, there's no turning back after we make the switch.
Then again, that might not be a bad thing.
my thoughts exactly.....do we suffer more after already suffering 8 years, whats another year....  , or do we say our line is better now than with Couch let start quin ?
I'm worried if we wait until next year, than whats the excuse gonna be, 2008 is a wash because Quinn needs a year of starting under his belt...Than 2009 will be well ....quinn has no weapons, all the guys we signed in 2006-7 have left or been released, and the new guys we just signed FA this year it will take another year for them to jell.....see the picture, excuses never end, Some time ya strap on the helment and hit somebody
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I don't see how Charlie will start next week after being pulled in the 2nd quarter. That makes no sense at all unless he was hurt and will be recovered by next week.
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No, it doesn't make much sense for most teams, But for the situation the Btrowns are in, it is the best option. This offensive line has played together for one game. Putting a rookie QB behind that line - that doesn't make snese.
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I don't see how Charlie will start next week after being pulled in the 2nd quarter. That makes no sense at all unless he was hurt and will be recovered by next week.
Whenever I see anderson I always picute a guy standing 20 yards from a hugh red barn and all we see are balls bouncing infront of it...never hitting the barn just bouncing infront of the doors...
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I want to see Quinn also. This isnt the same O line that lets people through the middle completely untouched. The ones that made Couch, Holcomb and Garcia get happy feet. We have weapons for him to throw to. If he is our future lets get him in, and get him ready to win some games for us next year.
Even if Quinn performs horribly, he still isnt going to take the type of pounding our QBs have had to take in the past. And its not like we are going to magically transform into a "good team" between now and next year. Quinn is coming into a bad team, wether its now or later. So we might as well get the ball rolling.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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I'd also like to point out that even if Crennel had wanted Quinn to play yesterday, he was listed as inactive, at least according to www.KFFL.com.
http://sportsagent.wordpress.com/tag/nfl-cba/
Prior to kickoff each week of the regular season, teams must establish a 45 player team from the 53 man active/inactive roster, and identify an additional player on the inactive list as a 3rd quarterback who can enter the game only if the other two QB’s can’t play.
http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/index.nsf/Documents/0-rules
And, as of 1995, The emergency (third) quarterback may now enter the game in just the fourth quarter, regardless if the other two quarterbacks are able to play. This means that if the third string quarterback enters the game, the first and/or second quarterback may re-enter, unlike the past two seasons where the emergency quarterback would only play off the first two were unable to resume play.
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/...rkbreitsanswers,1,5707443.story?coll=cs-bears-asktheref-headlines
Q: On a recent Sunday, I could swear I heard the announcers say something about how if a team used their third string QB, none of the other QBs could return to the field as a QB. Did I hear that correctly? --Grant Eisenhut, Tampa, Fla.
A: Each team is allowed to dress 45 players for each game, plus, a 46th man, providing he is designated as the third quarterback only. If this third quarterback enters the game during the first, second or third quarter, the first and second string quarterbacks are not allowed to return for the rest of the game. If the third quarterback enters during the fourth quarter, the other two quarterbacks may return to the game. This is a special rule that was put in about 10 years ago, and gives each team an insurance policy for quarterback injury.
They could have played Quinn, but they did the prudent thing and did not.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Putting a rookie QB behind that line - that doesn't make snese.
I disagree. But that's all we do around here is disagree with each other over a terrible team.
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I am fine with Quinn coming in this year as I feel he will learn more from playing than standing on the sideline. However, I want to give the line time to figure things out first so he has half of a chance. Give them a couple games and once the current QB's stop becoming tackling dummies and we have some resemblance of a running game. Then put BQ in and let him grow from there.
The excuses have to stop sooner or later and this team just needs to start winning.
Signing Steinbach - $49.5 million
Signing Lewis - $5 million
Drafting Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn - millions more
Restoring the Browns to champions - priceless.
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I wouldn't start Quinn this week.. .I wouldn't start him this year... and unless we have at least 3 pro-bowl offensive lineman, I wouldn't start him next year either.... I'm thinking that by 2010 we might have an offensive line worthy of starting Quinn, then give him 2 years to learn on the field and I'm telling you, come 2012... dammit, that's our year... we'll have had 3 coaching changes by then, Savage will be taking the NY Giants to the super bowl... but I guarantee we make the playoffs that year....
I'm also thinking we can ride this "blame the OL" forever if we have to... I mean having a mental midget at QB with his hand glued to the freakin' ball couldn't possibly have anything to do with the 5 sacks....
yebat' Putin
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I see two options, start Quinn next week so he can get use to the game before he faces New England, or start Anderson (cut Frye, re-sign Dorsey) and start Quinn around the bye, no matter what, Quinn will be starting this season.
And people should stop comparing Quinn to Couch, this browns team has a line and weapons, Couch's team did not have either. Quinn is also more of a mature QB then Couch was.
"Change ownership of the team, the true change we can believe in." - I made this in 2008 
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So, which should that QB do? Last year, the fans were screaming for him to stay in the pocket and stop taking off. This year, it's that he needs to not stand there. I'm not sure how you can blame ANY QB for some of those sacks. Who could have stood there while being knocked down by a 300 lb tackle that was thrown into him? Who could have stopped the corner blitz when Thomas took the outside guy and the inside blitzer came in untouched? How do you get rid of the ball when the receivers are covered other than throwing the ball into coverage? Frye played poorly, but it's not like anyone else was blameless.
Oh, and before the "throw the ball away" mantra starts, intentional grounding has the same result as a sack.
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Oh, and before the "throw the ball away" mantra starts, intentional grounding has the same result as a sack.
Not when the throw is the general direction of a receiver. That shouldn't be a problem for a QB with an NFL arm. Heck, Anderson does it on every throw. 
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I dont agree with Mike Trivisonno often. However his comments on the organization were valid and correct. No game plan, no adjustments. The only thing we did right was keep Quinn on the sideline. on the bright side we are 3-0 after romeo messes up the first game of the season.
![[Linked Image from www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com]](http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Rose+Bowl+Game+Presented+Citi+7QSHQaRXtTTc.jpg) Taylor Mays, Just Draft Him
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Let's see, Couch had Steve Zahursky, Jim Pyne and Dave Wolobaugh at center/guard, a mentally ill Zeuss and a washed up Lomas Brown at tackle, Kevin Johnson and Darrin Chiavarini at wideout and Marc Campell at TE.....yeah, it's the same scenario.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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j/c To all of you who pointed out that Quinn still could have played, and therefore pointed out my error, you are obviously Steeler fans, and maybe even Al Qaeda. Thanks for correcting me. That's how I learn.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Maybe you should ride the message board pine for 5 weeks, until you're ready to be a full time poster.
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So, which should that QB do? Last year, the fans were screaming for him to stay in the pocket and stop taking off. This year, it's that he needs to not stand there.
I wasn't one of them... not that I would expect you to remember that. I like Frye out of the pocket if his first couple reads yield no results.....
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I'm not sure how you can blame ANY QB for some of those sacks. Who could have stood there while being knocked down by a 300 lb tackle that was thrown into him?
I didn't blame him for all of them... just some of them... sometimes the DL wins. It's that simple.
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Who could have stopped the corner blitz when Thomas took the outside guy and the inside blitzer came in untouched?
Whose responsibility is it to read the defense presnap? Whose responsibility is it to change the play or call timeout? Part of being a QB actually involves being aware before the ball is in your hands.... but as I said, I don't blame him for all of the sacks...
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How do you get rid of the ball when the receivers are covered other than throwing the ball into coverage?
Part of Frye's problem, and I've complained about this for 2 years now, is that he won't throw to a guy unless he's so completely wide open that you can read both numbers on his jersey.... On a side note, that was the most impressive thing about Brady's two throws in preseason, the one to KW across the middle and the barely out of bounds toss to JJ... Frye would have never even attempted to throw either of those balls because they were both fairly well covered. Frye's definition of "well covered" is a defender within 4 or 5 yards.... then when the offense fails to produce anything, he gets frustrated and throws into coverage.... poor decision making, poor accuracy, no confidence in his arm.... there it is.
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Frye played poorly, but it's not like anyone else was blameless.
I never placed all of the blame on Frye, a couple missed blocking assignments, a couple dropped balls, a penalty or two... there were certainly other contributing factors... but first, he is the QB who is the guy who is supposed to hold it all together... secondly, he is the one with the highly touted rookie waiting to take his position who possesses certain skills that Frye does not.
A lot of opinions are flying around Coach... just so we're clear, how much responsibility do you put on Frye for his 5 sacks? Any?
yebat' Putin
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I don't see how Charlie will start next week after being pulled in the 2nd quarter. That makes no sense at all unless he was hurt and will be recovered by next week.
I agree with you to a certain extent.
I think Anderson starts this week, and when he struggles Frye will be put back in. That makes it all PC and such.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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Oh, and before the "throw the ball away" mantra starts, intentional grounding has the same result as a sack.
Not when the throw is the general direction of a receiver. That shouldn't be a problem for a QB with an NFL arm. Heck, Anderson does it on every throw.
This is so sad but true... Frye won't, Andersuck can't, Quinn shouldn't...We have to get BQ ready fast, I'm just so tired of bad football. 
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My thick skull wants to ask how John Elway and Troy Aikman managed to come out alive after being thrown to the wolves when they took over?
I have no idea [and neither do you] whether BQ has the makeup and abilities that these 2 HOF QBs had but it seems we have been led to believe that BQ is smart,talented and ready to step up to the big show.
We fans are simply attempting to put the best possible product on the field in Cleveland. CF and DA have guts but limited talent and a stunted learning curve.
To make the case that Tim Couch was as talented and pro ready as BQ is wrong. Couch was overwhelmed by the pro playbook and was a statue in the pocket...BQ may get rocked but he'll also learn really fast on the run.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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I would lay the "blame" for maybe one of the sacks on Frye...possibly two. I think he became so shell shocked (for lack of a better term) that he was totally worthless. I also think that he was pressing way to hard to get away from the criticisms and also feels the heat of Quinn on the sidelines and isn't responding well (after all, after the FIRST SERIES there were idiots chanting Brady's name). None of this is excusing his poor performance, just stating reasons for them IMO.
BTW, I know you didn't say all those things, was just making a general comment with a few things directed towards you.
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If you are a good QB it doesn’t matter how you get your start in the NFL what matters is how you play when you are in the game. Frye takes sacks he doesn’t need to take; he did it all last year and enough this year for the coaches to decide he was done. I think he can be a good backup and start a game or two for an injured QB but he isn’t mentally quick enough to be a full time starter.
Anderson may not be the smartest QB either but he does a couple things way better than Frye that give our team a better chance to not get totally embarrassed each week. He gets rid of the ball on time and steps up into the pocket. Now while it is good he isn’t a sack waiting to happen every time he drops back he is a bad decision away from throwing an interception every time that ball comes off his fingertips. He doesn’t see coverages as well as Frye.
Quinn seems to be able to get rid of the ball on time and see coverages, decide where to put the ball where only his receiver can catch it and keep the turnovers down. He is a big boy and can take getting hit a few times but he won’t take half the beating all of our previous QBs have taken because he gets rid of the ball before it becomes an issue. He may not know the complete playbook but who think Frye or Anderson know the thing either? I’m ready for him to take his lumps and just start playing, he can’t be any worse than we have seen.
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I've heard this question asked a few times today.....What NFL team is Charlie Frye or DA a starter for besides the Browns?
* crickets *
....anyone?....anyone?
This team needed to bring in a Vet for this season and didn't do it. The best QB on this roster is BQ. Play the best player. The Couch comparison doesn't quite wash in this instance, IMHO. Couch didn't even have a playbook in that Kentucky offense and he didn't have any quality O-lineman or weapons to throw to except for KJ.
What makes this situation 4 or 6 weeks from now any different? We might have LESS of an offensive line or receivers due to injuries and who is to say that last years top 10 defensive teams are this year's? Lord knows how fast its zero to hero and hero to zero in this league (except for us).
"My signature line goes here."
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I've heard this question asked a few times today.....What NFL team is Charlie Frye or DA a starter for besides the Browns?
Falcons & Raiders 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Charlie Frye is the whipping boy until the team is good enough to protect Quinn and until he can protect himself. Sorry, Charlie, but it is true.
---I'm writing this as to what I think the Quinner's, people who want Quinn to start now, are thinking:
People are screaming for Quinn because they can see Charlie knows his role like you explained....and he's given that role up. Frye's quit. That's why people want Quinn before he's "ready". Why keep putting Frye in when EVERYONE knows he's just treading water until his release? Put Quinn in and let him learn in these games, since they're automatic losses with Frye. Someone might as well get something out of these next 4-5 games.
------------
Begin my own thoughts:
I hope they leave Frye/Anderson in until the bye week. Quinn needs more time on the bench and in practice. I think we call all see that Quinn is the best QB we have (which might not being saying much right now). I just hope that Frye/Anderson can win 2 of the games......or at least play like they CARE!
.....Wow, these next 4-5 games are going to be ROUGH! And yes, we should have replaced Frye with a vet in the offseason. We need a vet to stay in the pocket, make some decent throws and not be a disaster. Frye and Anderson make me want to puke. Too bad Jax cut Leftwich so late. He might have been able to come in, push Frye/Anderson down and learn the playbook. Meh....another long season coming.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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josh mccown threw for 313, 2 td's and 2 ints. he posted a 93.0 rating
for the raiders, whose offence is maybe even more maligned than ours.
i think he beat out our qbs by a large margin.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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I've heard this question asked a few times today.....What NFL team is Charlie Frye or DA a starter for besides the Browns?
Falcons & Raiders
I guess that may be a matter of opinion. I don't share the same one you do.
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josh mccown threw for 313, 2 td's and 2 ints. he posted a 93.0 rating
for the raiders, whose offence is maybe even more maligned than ours.
i think he beat out our qbs by a large margin.
Charlie Frye's rating against the same Lions defense in the preseason when they didn't blitz and played their subs was 21.7.
yebat' Putin
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So who do you think SHOULD start?
Anderson. We moved the ball with him, we got rid of the ball quickly. And yes, he will have mistakes. But it's better than Frye's garbage.
I really don't want to see Quinn vs. the Rams either, just because the Rams will score points, and that's puts alot of pressure on a rookie QB trying to keep up with a high-powered offense.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum For those of you Calling for Brady
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