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Originally Posted By: Spiritbro77
In our division, you better be able to run the football. Yes, it's a passing league but the run game is not even close to being obsolete. The Rams made the SB with a pretty decent run game. Beast mode plus LOB got Seattle to two SB's and won them one. Let's just say I'm glad we have Chub. I'd love to see him get 1300+ yards rushing and double digit TD's. We had a really good mix of run/pass last year after Kitchens took over. I hope that continues. Having Baker drop back and throw 50 times is not the way to win a SB. smile


The run game counts if you commit, and if you are ahead in the 4th qtr.

I always go back to Riggings with the Skins. It seemed like every week he would go in to the half with 16 rushing attempts and 48 yards gained. By the end of the game he had 32 carries for 140 yards and a few TD's.

I know a few get upset when I bring up Hue, but he never invested in the run game. He wanted the big play like most modern coaches do....old timers as well. I remember him talking about Crow saying if he wanted the ball more, he needed to start making longer runs.

I also go back to Barry Sanders. A great back who had a few dozen 3 yard carries a game and 5-6 20 yard carries a game. Tony Dorsett was the same way. Might as well say Nick Chubb.

A back needs 25-30 carries a game if you want a back to carry the team. You just never know when he is going to gain his yards and turn a game.

Riggins would have been benched by many today because they don't understand a plow horse starts slow, but keeps on and the pounding takes a toll. People get tired of standing in the path of a plow horse because it is going to keep on keeping on.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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I love that talking about how it's a passing league spurned a conversation straight out of the 1970s.

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It is a passing league. I am just saying that if you want to run the ball, which still can work, you have to invest. You can't give up on it after 12 carries. It's a process that builds.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
I love that talking about how it's a passing league spurned a conversation straight out of the 1970s.


I love how Freddie gets praised for saying it's a passing league and Hue gets criticized for actually passing in a passing league.

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Oh Thank God. I was just thinking we needed a Hue thread.

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Why did you click on bonefish's name? He didn't bring it up. Ballpeen did.

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I didn't click on anyone's name, but had I, it would've been yours.

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Of course it would have been. peen brought Hue into it. Not me. But, overlook that w/your two-faced self.

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He was talking about the run game using Hue as an example. You made a post about Hue using the passing game as an example.

And yes, Hue's an idiot for relying on a passing attack centered around Kizer without making it easier for him.

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I stopped defending Hue long ago, but your crowd just refuses to let things go. And then you jump on others when we get sick of hearing it on almost every damn thread. And then you throw a hissy fit if someone dares say a negative word about Sashi.

You guys and your double standards suck!

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I was actually cool with letting you live with your post about watching a Sashi Brown podcast. IDC anymore.

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I was actually cool w/you ghosting, but you just never know when to let things slide.

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Ladies!


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
I was actually cool with letting you live with your post about watching a Sashi Brown podcast. IDC anymore.


How was your favorite GM’s podcast? ... u guys were so excited before it, its all u could talk about now none of you will tell us how it was ....

So, how was it .... memph, device any one of U sashiettes will do .... please, please quit depriving us of Sashi’s genius ... naughtydevil




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I've meant to ask this earlier but I have no idea what this Sashi podcast is all about. Does "Diam, the Hue Disciple" want to clue me in?


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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
I've meant to ask this earlier but I have no idea what this Sashi podcast is all about. Does "Diam, the Hue Disciple" want to clue me in?


I legitimately think he's confusing the Sloan sports conference with a podcast. Sadly, he didn't even go to Sloan. I think he's just running an investment firm right now. He does not have a podcast lol

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Haha! All I know he has a podcast named after him. Hopefully, he's getting payment in order to use his likeness.


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He does? I only follow Thomahawk. Who hosts the podcast?

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Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
He does? I only follow Thomahawk. Who hosts the podcast?


It's not a podcast discussing him & his moves or anything like that. It's all about the growing importance and influence of analytics in football. I'll DM you the info if you're interested. There is a myriad of people on there talking about the subject. It's interesting. Not all I agree with but most of it is good stuff.


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Please do. Sounds like good stuff.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Of course it would have been. peen brought Hue into it. Not me. But, overlook that w/your two-faced self.


That's how things work here.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
I love that talking about how it's a passing league spurned a conversation straight out of the 1970s.


I love how Freddie gets praised for saying it's a passing league and Hue gets criticized for actually passing in a passing league.

I didn't have a problem with his run:pass balance so much as how his offense was more chaos than it was an effective passing attack.

We can go back and talk talent all we want, the bottom line is Freddie Kitchens, a then no-name running backs coach, completely turned the offense around in two weeks of time. Pass protection magically improved, Baker was getting the ball out quicker, receivers were magically running better routes and catching the ball, and so on. Of course it wasn't magic, it was coaching.

Hue Jackson, coming off 1-15 and 0-16 seasons, promised, "This will be the greatest turnaround in sports history."

Little did he know that turnaround would not begin until after he was gone.

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Beat that drum loudly! lmao


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Does this never end?

I mean really.

Do we have a team today that happens to be the buzz of the NFL?

The Past is History. Tomorrow a Mystery. Today is a Gift. That's why it is called the Present.

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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: Spiritbro77
In our division, you better be able to run the football. Yes, it's a passing league but the run game is not even close to being obsolete. The Rams made the SB with a pretty decent run game. Beast mode plus LOB got Seattle to two SB's and won them one. Let's just say I'm glad we have Chub. I'd love to see him get 1300+ yards rushing and double digit TD's. We had a really good mix of run/pass last year after Kitchens took over. I hope that continues. Having Baker drop back and throw 50 times is not the way to win a SB. smile


The run game counts if you commit, and if you are ahead in the 4th qtr.

I always go back to Riggings with the Skins. It seemed like every week he would go in to the half with 16 rushing attempts and 48 yards gained. By the end of the game he had 32 carries for 140 yards and a few TD's.

I know a few get upset when I bring up Hue, but he never invested in the run game. He wanted the big play like most modern coaches do....old timers as well. I remember him talking about Crow saying if he wanted the ball more, he needed to start making longer runs.

I also go back to Barry Sanders. A great back who had a few dozen 3 yard carries a game and 5-6 20 yard carries a game. Tony Dorsett was the same way. Might as well say Nick Chubb.

A back needs 25-30 carries a game if you want a back to carry the team. You just never know when he is going to gain his yards and turn a game.

Riggins would have been benched by many today because they don't understand a plow horse starts slow, but keeps on and the pounding takes a toll. People get tired of standing in the path of a plow horse because it is going to keep on keeping on.

I want to see a somewhat balanced offense but have it based on a dominant passing game, if that makes sense.

Say we come out Chubb, Njoku, OBJ, Callaway, and Vice Grips (tip of the cap to Diam).

That's an outstanding group there, obviously. Lot of speed and game-breaking ability. Baker was already playing at a very high level last season and let's say he makes a big step in year 2, as QBs usually do.

Defenses have to respect this. So they play two safeties deep in nickel, or maybe even dime personnel. Six men in the box at most, linebackers are a good bit off the line of scrimmage, edge rushers are teeing off trying to get to Baker. But we actually run an inside zone to Chubb or whatever. Hard guy to bring down when you have a hat on a hat.

Conceptually, I like that approach a lot more than the old 'three yards and a cloud of dust', trying wear the other team down to break off some big runs later. Let the defense tire themselves out by trying to get after Baker and chasing our skill players everywhere. The run game is more about quality than quantity.

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Originally Posted By: bonefish

Does this never end?

I mean really.

Do we have a team today that happens to be the buzz of the NFL?

The Past is History. Tomorrow a Mystery. Today is a Gift. That's why it is called the Present.

Fair enough, I tried to get this thread back on track with my above post, which I posted before seeing your reply.

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Thank you.

Football discussion is good. Lot's of good stuff to discuss.

Example: How does our receiving unit match up to division DB units? etc.

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Originally Posted By: bonefish

Does this never end?

I mean really.

Do we have a team today that happens to be the buzz of the NFL?

The Past is History. Tomorrow a Mystery. Today is a Gift. That's why it is called the Present.


I swear to God, I'm about to require some folks to watch and then answer questions about random podcasts before they can submit a post.

I will make sure I ask about something arcane buried 47 minutes into a 55 minute video and if you get it wrong once, you'll have to watch a different video.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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If you find out "witch" ones Diam is talking about, let me know and I'll listen to it.


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Sorry I only listen to podcasts done by gays and women. If you want me to learn football, you're going to have to provide some tweets.

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Or how the score impacts the pass vs run game. Because sometimes when the pass to run ratio becomes heavily favored in one direction, it's the score that's dictating it.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Behind scenes in Cleveland where Browns expectations are bonkers – 'There's not going to be a crash here'

Kimberley A. Martin
Senior NFL writer

https://sports.yahoo.com/behind-scenes-i...-011944710.html

BEREA, Ohio — The lighting just isn’t quite right.

A small camera crew scurries back and forth to chase the shadows that obscure John Dorsey’s face. But the Cleveland Browns general manager doesn’t seem to mind the wait.

Donning his daily uniform — a white baseball cap, collared shirt underneath a Browns sweatshirt, khaki shorts and white sneakers — Dorsey looks more high school track coach than high-powered NFL executive.

Sitting on one of the stools inside the Browns’ TV studio, he’s engaged in small talk about playing stickball in the streets of Brooklyn, the old days of doing long division by hand and how he still owns a land line telephone.

He’s personable. Laid-back. Easy-going.

But above all else, he’s on a mission.

Dorsey is the man who drafted Patrick Mahomes for the Kansas City Chiefs. And he’s the man who was dismissed by those same Chiefs two months later.

Now, he’s the man who drafted Baker Mayfield. The man who traded for Odell Beckham Jr. And the man who decided to give Kareem Hunt a second chance.

Dorsey is the architect of the most fascinating franchise in football — the long downtrodden, but suddenly relevant Browns. And this, he hopes, is just the beginning.

Then the wait is over.

The lights are properly positioned.

It’s Cleveland’s turn to be in the NFL spotlight.

“You go back to the ’40s, the ’50s, the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s, the Cleveland Browns were one of those iconic, trademark NFL teams. They were up there with the best of them,” Dorsey said during a sit-down interview with Yahoo Sports. “And for the last 20 years, this fan base has suffered a little bit. Let’s see if we can be competitive in the AFC North, build this thing back to where the Cleveland Browns should be.”

Dorsey accumulated enough talent to raise the organization from perennial punch line to more than merely competitive. He has entrusted the organization to a perfectionist quarterback in Mayfield who’s not only fueled by the digs of his detractors, but determined to stave off a sophomore slump. He has acquired the type of alpha dogs necessary to weather the difficult days ahead. And Dorsey has chosen a new leader for his locker room, a first-time head coach in Freddie Kitchens, armed with a heavy southern drawl and an even thicker resolve to always be himself.

Dorsey has made one calculated risk after another in an effort to accelerate the Browns’ chances of once again being successful — signing a new running back in Hunt, who’ll presumably spend the first eight weeks of the 2019 season focused on bettering himself rather than perfecting his game, and trading for a new star wide receiver whose exceptional talent is often overshadowed by a polarizing personality.

Indeed, the wait is over.

It is the Browns’ time in the spotlight. But is it their time to win?

Awake the sleeping giant
Dorsey came here with one clear objective: “Awake the sleeping giant.”

And so far, he’s done just that.

Cleveland was on the cusp of playoff contention last season, finishing 7-8-1 with a rookie quarterback in Mayfield making 13 starts after supplanting veteran Tyrod Taylor. The Browns finished third in AFC North standings, but the signs of a franchise on the rise were there.

It’s only mid-May, but the outside noise has filtered into the team’s facility. And the Browns already know what you’re thinking.

Was last year an aberration?

“We’re supposed to be this dominant team now,” wide receiver Jarvis Landry said. “And in some cases it doesn’t always work like that. Some teams add talent and they still have an unfortunate season. … But I know for us, our goal isn’t to just make the playoffs. It’s to win the Super Bowl. Not giving that as a prediction, but to be honest, that’s what anybody plays this game for.”

Expectations are at a three-decade high here. But don’t waste your time talking to Kitchens about other people’s opinions.

“As far as the pressure, that’s all fluff. It really is,” scoffed the scruffy, 44-year-old first-time head coach. “The media likes to put the pressure on you, or talk about the pressure, so they can knock you down. ’Cause everybody goes by a car wreck on the interstate, and what do they do? They slow down so they can see the crash.

“Well there’s not going to be a crash here. We’re going to prepare and our expectations are going to be a hell of a lot higher than anybody from outside the building can put on us.”

Synonymous with instability for decades, the Browns are aiming to break the mold of what they’ve been for so long. The epitome of futility. The embodiment of irrelevance. The benchmark for incompetency.

“The only thing I knew about was Josh Cribbs, and then before then was my boy Jim Brown. Seriously,” said new defensive tackle Sheldon Richardson. “And the quarterback — the last good quarterback they had. I can’t think of his name right now.”

Richardson looked to his new teammate Olivier Vernon for help.

Ten seconds.

Twenty seconds.

Finally, the breakthrough.

“Bernie Kosar!” they said in unison with a laugh.

The Browns have had 30 different starting quarterbacks since 1999, the same year they took Tim Couch No. 1 overall.

Since 2009, they’ve had seven coaches and lost 118 games — including a 1-31 stretch under former head coach Hue Jackson, who was dismissed in October with offensive coordinator Todd Haley, amid reports of a toxic power struggle between the two.

Last year’s 21-17 Week 3 win over the New York Jets snapped a 635-day losing streak.

Even Greedy Williams, Cleveland’s rookie cornerback, knows how bad it used to be here.

“They sucked,” the former LSU defensive back said, smiling. “It’s just the honest truth."

Mayfield’s arrival last year was the first major step in the Browns’ dramatic rebuild. And their sudden transformation from NFL laughingstock to potential AFC North powerhouse has been nothing short of remarkable.

Kitchens likened Dorsey to a “barracuda” because they’re “relentless in nature and his relentless pursuit of putting together the best team possible is unmatched.”

But for everything the Browns have accomplished in the past year — drafting the new face of the franchise, purging the building of internal discord and raising the bar on football expectations in Northeast Ohio — the Browns aren’t far removed from their record of ineptitude.

Dorsey denied the characterization of an “aggressive” rebuild, noting that “it’s going to take three years to get this thing up to relevance.” But his offseason signings signal a win-now mentality vs. a gradual restoration.

“We’ve accelerated here a little bit,” Dorsey acknowledged. “When you have a quarterback like Baker Mayfield going into his second year, why not surround him with some offensive weapons to take the onus off him a little bit and let these playmakers really allow him to be more relaxed?”

The hope, he said, is that Mayfield uses Year 2 to learn what it means to “master” the quarterback position.

“Give him pieces around him to make this offense more exciting,” Dorsey said. “And then on the flip side, on the defensive side of the ball, go get some pass rushers. Go get some corners. … That’s why you go out and get Olivier Vernon, that’s why you get Sheldon Richardson. Pair them up with Myles Garrett. Now you have a formidable front four that can apply pressure to quarterbacks in those 16 weeks.”

A killer demeanor
The physical gifts were there.

So was the mental makeup.

But it was the Jets, in part, who helped convince Dorsey that the quarterback he drafted No. 1 overall in 2018 was ready for the NFL stage.

Mayfield entered that Week 3 prime-time matchup without the starting role, without the benefit of first-team reps and without a lead. But he showcased the most difficult attribute to ascertain, Dorsey said: “The intangible within … What truly, passionately drives him.”

From the moment Mayfield replaced the injured Taylor in the Browns’ come-from-behind victory, all of Cleveland began to believe.

“He is who we thought he was,” Dorsey thought that night.

No one has thrown more touchdown passes (27) during a rookie season than Mayfield. And yet, despite his impressive first-year stats — 3,725 passing yards and a 63.8 passing percentage) — he still carries himself like the college walk-on he once was. No slights go unnoticed. Not even “Madden” ratings.

“I know I was pretty mad about my rating last year, but it should go up a significant amount,” Mayfield said, though he admitted he doesn’t play the video game. “At the rookie premiere, they gave us the rating. I think my throw power was pretty weak, which made me kinda really mad."

He’s well aware the rest of the league has studied him in hopes of exploiting a weakness. He assumes you’re waiting for him to falter. He knows critics are expecting a sophomore slump.

“That’s alright,” Mayfield matter-of-factly said. “I think, if anything, in my story, it says that I haven’t really been satisfied ever.”

His doubters are nothing more than kerosene — necessary fuel to ignite the fighter within.

“If you watched Baker, even through college, he loves that,” Landry said. “He feeds off of that.”

It didn’t take long for Richardson to get a read on Mayfield: The perfect elixir of perfectionism, playful bravado and practice trash-talk.

“He’s talking to us right now in OTAs and we can’t even hit him,” Richardson said with a laugh.

“He’s got that swag, that killer demeanor,” Williams added. “He’s just one of those quarterbacks that wants to win at everything he does.”

Dorsey often notes that Mayfield is wise beyond his years, but the second-year starter also has the unenviable task of managing the collection of egos and expectations within the locker room. Including his own.

“Everybody’s gotta realize they’re not going to get the touches they want,” Mayfield said. “You’ve got to feed whoever’s open. They know that. We’ve got a great group of guys that are all about winning. … Everybody’s a lot happier when you win.”

Building a brotherhood
Chemistry is key.

Forming a new identity is crucial.

Building a brotherhood is paramount.

In this building, they believe that personalities aren’t to be dulled, that “passion” isn’t a detriment and that past transgressions are an opportunity for betterment.

Dorsey acknowledged the one-year deal he gave Hunt — the running back he drafted in 2017 and later released by the Chiefs in November after video of him shoving and kicking a woman went public — was a calculated risk. But defended the person he knows Hunt to be.

“He’s extremely remorseful,” Dorsey said, five days before he and Kitchens attended Hunt’s baptism in Cleveland. “…There’s no guarantees that he’s on the 53-man roster. He’s got to earn it, day in and day out. Not only with his presence in the building but also with his presence outside the building; trying to better himself as a man. And that’s all you can ask for. And he’s taken that and he has run with it and I’m so proud of him and where he is today.”

“I told [Dorsey], ‘You can trust me,’” Hunt said during his first media session with Browns reporters last week. "I've got to earn his trust, and I've got to earn everybody's trust in the whole organization. I'm not willing to mess that up."

Beckham arrives with his own baggage. The blockbuster trade that brought him here was universally lauded as a coup for Cleveland, who surrendered their 2019 first-round pick, a third-round pick and safety Jabrill Peppers in exchange for the former Giants phenom. But Beckham’s notable absence from OTAs on the first day of media access made headlines. Still, he has plenty of defenders here.

He’s a star that craves attention, a gifted athlete who has yet to win a playoff game in his past five seasons, and a wide receiver who felt his talent was being wasted in New York.

Some see him as a malcontent. Others believe he’s a fiery competitor who can’t stomach losing, no different than Mayfield or his best friend Landry.

“You’re getting a guy that loves winning and he just wants to help the team any way possible,” said Landry, adding that “it means everything” having his LSU teammate by his side again. “It comes down to letting his passion show and being embraced for that. Not trying to be on a leash or held back. Obviously, in the means of not hurting the team, but letting him be himself. I think that’s the best thing and you’re going to get the best out of him. And the town will see that, the Browns fans will see that.”

The goal in Berea is for every man to understand that team needs supersede individual gains. But can that message be heeded by an entire locker room over a 16-game season?

Kitchens gladly encourages individuality, insisting on having an environment where it’s OK for players to be themselves. But how successful the 2019 Browns will be is dependent on them.

“I know how you’ve got to get there, and if they want to buy in and get there, we will. And if they don’t, we won’t,” Kitchens bluntly said. “But it’s their team. I’m just kind of the front man for it. We’ll go as far as they want to go.”

On paper, the Browns have the makings of a perennial playoff team. Time will tell if this collection of alpha dogs — each of them with something to prove — can collectively become something special.

The rebuild is underway.

And all roads lead back to Dorsey, the architect of this new Browns era.

“The best teams I’ve ever seen are those locker rooms where those veteran players, they set the bar high and they set those goals high and those expectations high, and they hold each and every one of themselves accountable,” Dorsey said. “… So we’ll see how this thing plays out. Don’t believe the hype.”


You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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Thanks for trying to steer the thread back to "Pure Football."

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I only brought Hue up as an example. Sorry man, we can't erase that he was a head coach of our team. It's not my fault he didn't produce wins.
I am not going to never mention Hue because you or Pit disapprove. He was a part of this team, a big part in fact.

You can mention Sashi all you want because I don't care.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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So much for the Pure Football that Grateful tried to steer us in.

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I think you turned it a while ago.

At any rate, it's going to be a fun season. Unlike last season where it was obvious the staff and FO weren't working in lockstep as some claimed they were, I think this one is doing that from game #1 rather than game #8 or whatever it was.

We may not win the division. Some breaks or luck could yet be involved in that, but we should be right there.

We finally have a quality GM with a quality head coach .


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
If you find out "witch" ones Diam is talking about, let me know and I'll listen to it.


Posted by u earlier in the thread .... u mentioned it before it happened and me being the astute dawg i am ... I remembered and break all u sashiettes chops about your all time favorite gm ... *L* ...

Nice try though .... rolleyes

Quote:
It's not a podcast discussing him & his moves or anything like that. It's all about the growing importance and influence of analytics in football. I'll DM you the info if you're interested. There is a myriad of people on there talking about the subject. It's interesting. Not all I agree with but most of it is good stuff.


saywhat notallthere rofl




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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Originally Posted By: bonefish

Does this never end?

I mean really.

Do we have a team today that happens to be the buzz of the NFL?

The Past is History. Tomorrow a Mystery. Today is a Gift. That's why it is called the Present.

I swear to God, I'm about to require some folks to watch and then answer questions about random podcasts before they can submit a post.

I will make sure I ask about something arcane buried 47 minutes into a 55 minute video and if you get it wrong once, you'll have to watch a different video.



Memphis did watch the podcast I’ve been referring too ... i keep asking him and his boys how they liked it .... no response ...

So can u make that the first video .... thumbsup




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Key word, "was".


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Considering you started mentioning this "podcast" just before the Sloan Analytics Conference and also before this podcast named after Sashi was even announced and aired a single episode to listen to, I'm going to lean on CHS' assumption. And the fact you talk about it and give him ownership of it, also doesn't make much sense if you know what the podcast was really about.

But feel free to keep mentioning this analytics podcast though. It's a good one w/ a ton of information and guests from:

-Football Outsiders
-ProFootballFocus
-RotoWorld
-ESPN
-NumberFire
-Yahoo! Sports
-Sports Info Solutions


At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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