DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Sashi Brown: Discuss Here

Sorry, but...

I've stayed out of this thread and limited my discussion on Sashi here for obvious reasons. And I guarantee that instead of having a meaningful conversation, one of the Anti-Sashi-ites will make some derogatory remark about this post...

Reading through this thread again it's astonishing to me that some don't see or appreciate the good Sashi has done. I'm not going to succumb to their agenda... but it seems this turned into a Sashi v Hue war... and I don't know how anyone could be more comfortable with Hue over Sashi. I don't necessarily think Sashi would have us where we are right now talent-wise, but I don't think we'd still be talentless as many seem to presume.

The facts as we know them... We are in year 4 of the rebuild and we are approximately where we said we'd be 4 years ago. Hue knew of the rebuild but he backtracked and lied and pounded his chest saying he needed to be more involved in player acquisition. Hue's only say came when we dealt with quarterbacks. If Hue had won more than 3 games in 2.5 seasons he still might be here. Hue doesn't have an NFL job today. Sashi wasn't the talent-evaluator. And we wouldn't have Jarvis Landry or OBJ without assets acquired when Sashi was here.

I also believe Dorsey wouldn't be here without Sashi's plan. That might also be a fact... however, Dorsey still maybe might have come here as GM, but he wouldn't have had the assets Sashi's team provided him...

We are completely, 100% still within the plan that Sashi set forth when he "took over."


If you want to keep reading, feel free...

The plan was never "to lose." It was a by-product of the plan. They never expected Hue to be that bad... And Haslam foiled the plan in my mind by going with his choice of HC and not the choice of the front office.

I know someone is going to say well Sashi isn't in the NFL either, and this being said without knowing whether he even wants an NFL position. He was burnt here. He was promised to get the length of "the plan," but he was fired halfway through. He didn't complain, or take to twitter, he thanked Cleveland for his time here. I think he is smiling ear to ear knowing we are about to accomplish something spectacular and he had a hand in it. I think he's an incredibly humble human being and we were fortunate to have had him.

I think a gigantic reason we are here today is a lot of good fortune. A lot! The QB situation is a little murkey, but we could have easily had Wentz, or possibly Trubisky. Other than possibly Mahomes, who might have suffered in our organizational structure at the time, we were far fortunate to land Mayfield. People want to thank Hue for his losses, that's fine... He actually could have won 2 games in 2017 and we still would have gotten him. We might have gotten him with 3 wins, the Giants seemed intent on drafting Barkley... and I'd assume with the assets we could have possibly traded up if we necessary.

All these little things added together put us where we are right now... Not only did we have a good plan, but we were very fortunate throughout the process.

I mean we are able to spend well over the salary cap this season. We need to be all-in on THIS season to win it all. 1 or 2 more signings and we'll be fine. I'm worried about the future, but I hope that will sort itself out. I'm hopeful we'll be ok, all the while spending what we can for this season to win NOW. That's exciting to me.


This ended up longer than I intended, but I'll end with this... I was reading online recently and it was said would you rather be a fan of the Bengals and stay with Marvin Lewis and be average for 15 years, or would you rather have an owner who will keep firing people until he gets it right? I've always been hard on Jimmy, but I know that despite what people think or say, he was trying to get it right and win. He didn't want to be average, he wanted to win... If he got this right, he deserves a lot of credit.

Nice post with very good perspective.

It might be a bit optimistic on Jimmy at the end-- those first 6-7 years were tough-- but if this Browns team goes where most of us think it can go, I can definitely see where you're coming from.

Two years of tear down and two years of rebuild. At least this time Haslam was smart enough to know that one man couldn't do both jobs. Sashi tore it down well. Dorsey is buiding it very well.

It takes a lot more talent to build a team than it does to tear one down.

We've always had a ton of cap space and high draft picks. Sashi did manage to keep it that way. But it wasn't something new here.

I have no problem with this being your opinion. I simply don't agree.

I can't tell you if Sashi is good at building a team. He was never given the opportunity. I doubt it would look the same as the one we have now, but I couldn't tell you if the results would have been different or not. On that note i'm very happy where we are right now.

I also think it's just as hard to "properly tear down" a team as it is to build one.

It's interesting the amount of people who said they want to see Hue be given a chance to coach a more talented team, meanwhile some of those same people didn't want to give Sashi a chance to build a team.

And honestly I have no issue with this, except I don't know how anyone can say Sashi couldn't build a team when they haven't even seen him attempt to do so.

As much as the Hue-ians wanted to see Hue coach with a more talented team, I wanted to see Sashi build a team.

With the current state of affairs I don't think anyone should complain how we got here.

Hue did get more talent and was given that chance..... after Dorsey arrived. Hue failed terribly even when given that talent. See, that's the difference here. Those that wanted to see Hue given that talent saw it and admit he failed. They're happy we moved on from him.

Yet on the other hand, the NFL has talent evaluators who have been in the league for years that have trouble building a winning team and drafting great players. But for some reason they seem hell bent on trying to make the argument that someone who had zero experience at doing this had some shot at accomplishing this. Throwing common sense to the curb.

One side let go. The other side just can't help but cling to the most unlikely of fanciful dreams.

I agree that some can't let it go. But it's not the ones who you think it is...

A couple other thoughts.

Sashi wasn't a talent evaluator.

I agree Hue had more talent and failed.

Sashi also never got the chance to build a team, which you admitted. Also, the hit rate on draft picks while he was here was pretty darn good.

I don't care that Sashi isn't here. I'm happy with what we have here today. I just don't agree when people assume he couldn't build a team because we have no idea. Hue was given a chance, Sashi was not. That's the bottom line.

Im not trying to prolong this argument, but the big difference is the effects of Sashi are still here, while the effects from Hue are long gone.

The side that let it go still gets their panties in a bunch every time Hue's name is mentioned. Hue and Sashi both sucked at their jobs, and in the long run the team is much better off because of it. If either of them were a little better at their job duties, we wouldn't have the talent that we do now.

I'm just glad we now have Dorsey and Baker.

Okay. Sure. Let's pretend that's true. I mean you did read the post Device made, right?

He's still hanging on to a guy that had no clue how to build a team, with zero experience building a team.... should have been given a chance to build a team. Why? Because after two years there's still a hand full of players left on the roster from his time here.

But hey, we can still go with your pretend narrative.

What's pretend about it? Everytime Hue's name is mentioned, you folks that "let it go" come unglued.

Sashi and Hue oversaw the worst record in NFL history. They deserve to be bashed and discussed. They also deserve a little praise, because without their suckitude we wouldn't be in the shape we're in now.

Yeah, you refuse to even see the above posts where a Sashi supporter still thinks he should have been given a chance to build the team. But keep going.....

Allahue Akbar!

I didn't refuse to see anything. I've repeatedly said they both sucked.



Keep going? That's what you're doing, even though you're the one that claimed to "let it go". But I'll keep going for the reasons I gave earlier...they earned it.

You must really be conflicted, with your incessant desire to get the last word in and a claim that you "let it go".

Come on dude. Where did I say this? This is where you guys get yourselves into trouble, making stuff up like this.





Apparently you didn't read what I wrote.

Mmmmmm hmmmmm.

And when you can point to the post where I said he should have been given the chance you can get back to me.

Your agenda is out of control.

Can't we all just agree that, no matter how we got here, the team finally appears to be on the right path?

That was a great episode.
I also came away with an even deeper level of respect for Joe, in that he never stopped playing at his highest level.

It was a real eye-opener to hear a retired pro speak so candidly, and without animus or rancor. Joe simply told us how it was... and how hard it was personally to keep taking the field with all that was happening.

I love the ThomaHawk Show.

____________

Sashi: I could see the steps being takes as they unfolded. I understood what the goal was. I hated that it looked/felt/tasted/smelled so frikkin' ugly.

I was sickened by the thought of (yet) another teardown/rebuild. "We never stick with anything. EVER! Aaaaarrrgh!!!"

But I saw the picks stockpiling. I saw the rationale behind the tactics, but I couldn't see a satisfactory outcome- until John Dorsey was hired, and started to do the GM thing.

It was at that point that I allowed myself to appreciate the position we were in. A position that was part of Shasiball's plan all along.

In fact, Joe and Andrew even talked about Sashi's role in somewhat positive terms, which further impressed me.

I hope all Dawgs are tuning in to that Podcast. These Dawgs are smart, experienced, smart, funny, naturals on the mic... and speak from a POV that only Insiders can provide. It should be on every 'ultimate fan's' go-to list.


Good call, cle23

"Sashi Brown died, so that we may live."

That was the best thread title I've seen on this forum in ages.

I want it as a tshirt. And I will only wear it when I'm in CLE.

Some years ago I recall reading a bit where Depo warned Jimmy, when the idea was being pitched, that it would get pretty ugly...and it did...lol

It became uglier once it was found out the coach was incompetent in the head coaching role. They weren't expecting 1 win in two seasons.

I am not going to say I would have liked to have seen Sashi building the team because I am pretty darn happy with what is going on in Berea these days.

Yes.

And I think we could look drastically different today under another rule.

I'm happy with where we are. Wouldn't change it for anything.

That's a bit dramatic.

How about, Sashi Brown failed so that we may succeed?

I don't believe that is accurate. He did not fail. This is a false narrative. This is the whole point of my argument.

He sure wasn't a success.

The current roster pretty much says otherwise.

I would say he was successful.


edit: I should add that he was successful with his plan... the plan is in year 4 and a lot of us here are talking about playoffs and a possible deep run into the playoffs... when was the last time we had done that?

He's not here... but some of things he did are reflected on the roster. So I don't necessarily agree.

Some can't swallow the fact that the plan Sashi and Depo had is the reason John was in a great position as the new GM.

That said, it would be a stretch to think that Sashi and the people he had in the FO would have done as good a job as John in picking players. I suppose it possible, but as I said, it's a stretch to think that.

Well we did have to suck bad enough to get the #1 draft pick so Dorsey could draft Baker.

This pretty much sums it up.

A year and a half after Sashi was canned, we have 5 players drafted by Sashi left, or signed as UDFA ...... 2 players he traded for .... and 2 he retained from prior administrations.

That's pretty dismal.

And the players we acquired with his trade downs and saved cap space?

Yeah, but you're using math. I mean, come on.

Yes, we traded Zeitler , who made the Pro Bowl because he was dismal.

We traded Peppers away because he was dismal.

We let McCourty go because he was dismal.

Nassib was dismal last year.

Punting draft picks to accumulate more, earlier ones was dismal.

jesus christ....this board sometimes.

Punting draft picks is what people who don't know how to use them do.

Sashi was well compensated to tank.
just look at the QB room a few years back.
Im sure Sashi was told to tear it all down
yet still make it look it we are trying to win.
whats funny is Haslam waa still charging fuĺl price for tickets
for single game and season ticket holders.
Sashi was the GM.
his draft failures are evident without argument
having Sashi as GM was like having a Grubhub driver run a 5 star eatery.
the Browns lucked out getting Dorsey.
Sashi did the easy work.
Dorsey has the hardwork to.do

Like the Seahawks and Patriots do?

Trading draft picks is what a team does when they know they are going to fail 60% of the time when drafting players (like everyone in the league does). More picks, more chances of getting a good player.

Yeah, we were Super Bowl contenders like the Pats and Seahawks. You know, full of talent and drafting at the bottom of the round. Apples and oranges.

The process is the same. Trade down to get more picks because the draft is a crapshoot. Process is the important thing.

Sure it is. When you have talent and don't need talent at every position, the process is not the same. The higher your picks, the better odds of success. When you draft near the end of the round the probability of success decreases.

So your supposition is instead of trying to draft help you desperately need, you punt. Mmmmm hmmmm.