DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Sashi Brown: Discuss Here

Some people just don't like when what they are saying obviously makes no sense. Let's take a look at the latest example.



Yet your assertion is the man that DID have the final say wasn't the GM. You really make this too easy.

Here is something to your credit that you posted earlier, I believe W8. It comes from an article when DePodest was hired, which was came after Sashi's promotion. Here is the quote from the article:


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2016/01/cleveland_browns_hire_analytic.html

Here is another article referencing the same thing:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2016/01/cleveland_browns_will_search_f.html

And in the end they hired Berry to do the say thing as the GM-- be the main talent evaluator. I submit it was because Brown had final roster say.

So the first article referenced analytics supporting personnel. And the second referenced getting a GM-type role where they ultimately settled on Berry as the main talent evaluator w/o the GM title.

Pit, you were right. How "outrageous, far fetched, and convoluted" is that?!

Yet Sashi had final say. But keep reaching.

Exactly. It even references it in the article:



Again, no one is disputing final say. You're arguing against the wind, or a wall, or yourself. Not sure which.

Haha. Seriously? You're the one lacking in the logical department. I have no idea why you think being GM and having final say is synonymous. It is not.

Lombardi was "GM" and didn't have final say.

Kokinos was "GM" and we know who ran that draft and had final say.

If memory serves, GM Heckert didn't have final say, Holmgren did.

I believe Gruden has final say in Oakland and I'm not sure about across the bay, who has the final say in San Francisco?

*Delete*

What took you so long?

How would that compare to the rest of the league, in the players they selected, in the same timeframe?

Ok here you go

Jimmy Haslam went and bought himself a "Fixer Upper" when he bought the team. He brought in Sashi (Chip Gaines) for the Demo. You know all the hard dirty work. He ripped everything down to the studs, and set John (Joanna Gaines)Dorsey up to set his re-design plans into action. It has been a team effort. It's now time to reveal our new house on National TV and to sit back and enjoys the views.

Here we go Brownies here we go WOOF WOOF

.... . Only you could find a way to get Fixer Upper into a Sashi thread.

That's only because we are done with Flip or Flop

I do kind of find humor in the fact some people think it takes as much talent to demo a home as it does to build a home. I see that a lot on here.

I don't think what Sashi did required talent so much as it did discipline and willingness to endure criticism.

Don't take those things for granted. I do think that Sashi was a little in over his head at identifying talent. The percentage of draft 'hits' (as in players still in the league) is high but there's not a whole lot of game-changing talent in there other than Garrett, who was a fairly obvious pick at #1 overall.

That said, not every GM leaves behind picks 1, 4, 33, 35, 67, 105, 150, 175, and 188 in the next draft, along with piles and piles of rolled over cap space. Some GMs actually trade away future picks in order to win now, while further sabotaging future years by signing overpriced/underperforming vets to big contracts. I'm glad Sashi didn't do that.

Sashi didn't leave us the #1 draft pick. Hue did.

I was actually thinking about this the other day. A QB-needy team could do a lot worse than hiring Hue Jackson as head coach in 2020, collecting their #1 overall pick, and then hiring a real head coach and drafting Trevor Lawrence.

I don't know that Trevor Lawrence will be some great QB, but, if your team already sucks, winning a few games doesn't really help you. Might as well hire Hue and lose them all so you get the #1 pick.

Gotta love the double standard in your argument. When it's convenient, you change your argument of whose suckitude gained what assets to fit your narrative. To me that's a sure sign that you're pimping an agenda.

We essentially had 6 first round picks in the last 3 years thanks to Sashi. We also acquired second round picks as well and they were used in various manners. I'm not going to go looking at all the trades and picks at the moment but feel free.

I'm not sure how this seems to go over your head. Actually, I know. However, if you want to learn rather than keep looking foolish by repeating that Sashi sucks over and over again I suggest you google what we were trying to accomplish under Sashi and then look to see what we did in regards to "the plan," you might actually come away understanding better.

Is it greedy to want the #1 overall pick while still winning at least one game? I really dislike losing in general but 0-16 especially rubs me the wrong way. 1-15 will get the #1 overall pick almost every time. 2-3 wins often will as well.

Ahh well, no need to worry about that kind of nonsense anymore

At least I'm willing to admit they both sucked. And I'm not giving Sashi credit for a first round pick you get every year no matter who the GM would have been. I mean you do realize that every team receives a first round pick in every draft by the league right?

I mean I guess you could give Sashi credit that he gave Hue such a sucky roster that no matter who was coaching we still would have ended up with the #1 pick if you want to. But I don't think you want to do that.

It would be counter intuitive to the silly points you've been trying to make wouldn't it?

It may make one feel better but in the grand scheme of things it really wouldn't have changed anything.

Looking at the Browns roster and the number of highly-paid players is actually pretty amazing: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns/

No other team has that luxury while still remaining far under the cap. Part of that is due to a lot of good young talent being on rookie deals, but it's also due to the money rolled over from the Sashi Brown years. So right now we actually have the highest active cap hit in the league and can still roll over money into the future, which will be needed when Garrett, Ward, Mayfield, Chubb, and others eventually get paid.

We probably should take into account the NFL's parity-seeking structure in giving the worst teams the best picks, so I can see not really wanting to give credit for picks 1, 33, etc. to Sashi or Hue.

We should absolutely give some credit to picks #4 and #35 to Sashi though. Dorsey made the picks (Ward and Chubb) but they wouldn't be here without those once-future picks acquired by Sashi. This was one of the things Sashi was actually good at, understanding that future picks are discounted too much in the league.

When you keep passing the buck from year to year by trading away your picks, you accumulate those picks. That's not rocket science. If you mean he kept trading away current picks for future picks, sure.

It's not like we were trading picks for the equivalent pick in the next draft. We were getting more and/or better picks in return.

It's like passing the bucket from year to year by investing your money, only with the NFL's strange dynamics, you get 50% annual interest on your investment.

If a pick in the current draft is (supposedly) worth a pick in the previous round in the next draft, then by extension wouldn't that mean that a 7th round pick in 2020 is worth a 1st round pick in 2026? Do you see how something like that is exploitable, with a little patience?

BUT without both the job never ever gets done. Most talent rebuilding. Biggest balls, and strongest backbone demo. You need both. Dorsey is great, BUT his ego would never have allowed him to rip the team down to the studs.

Not to mention, it's not like Sashi took over a great team when he got here.

In that respect, I'm surprised Ray Farmer doesn't come up more often in these discussions (just in case we needed another thing to argue about.)

Oh Lord don't bring him up. I supported him and I was 110 percent wrong LOL

Yet you're still having trouble admitting how wrong you still are about
Sashi.

We was like Wimpee from Popeye. "I'll gladly trade you a player today for a player tomorrow!"

That's because I am not wrong about him. He did the job he as hired to do and he did that part well.

No doubt. He was never the GM. I have no doubt that once the team started to look attractive to quality GM candidates, like John Dorsey, we would have hired a GM and Sashi would go back in to his role, or possibly a role like Team President.

Nobody would have wanted the GM role in a tear down.

But he wasn't. He was tossed out on his ear. And nobody else has given him a job in the NFL either. He was the final decision maker like every other NFL GM. You can call a pig a cow but that rump roast is still going to taste like ham.

Which is why he was givin the job. TO do what no other NFL GM would have done. It was career suicide. He knew that he knew he would never be a NFL GM which is why he took the job. He did what he was hired to do, and he was paid well for it.

You do know that's not what the claim of most is don't you? They say that Haslam took the side of Hue so he was not allowed to finish the job he was hired to do. Theories abound.

Yes Sir I know that. But I also know the truth.

So they signed him to longer contract than they planned on him being here for?

The planned on him gutting the team, and hoped that he could also make some good picks. But they planned on bringing in somebody who knew what the [censored] he was doing, when he realized just how build a new team.

I understand that. The relationship between Sashi and Hue became toxic, leaving any other option behind.