Satanic Temple cites religious beliefs as immunity from Supreme Court abortion ruling on fetal remains
The Satanic Temple said it would challenge a Supreme Court ruling from Tuesday that upheld part of an Indiana law requiring the burial or cremation of fetal remains.
The group is citing religious freedom in declaring immunity from the law, according to the Arkansas Times.
“One of The Satanic Temple’s fundamental tenets is the inviolability of one’s body,” the international organization said in a statement.
The Satanic Temple (TST) said “non-viable fetal tissue is part of the woman who carries it,” according to its statement to the news outlet.
“State impositions of ceremonial requirements dictating its disposal, barring any plausible medical or sanitary concerns, is a violation of TST’s Free Exercise allowing Satanists to contextualize the termination of a pregnancy on their own terms, with deference to their own religious beliefs,” the group added.
The organization, which does not worship or believe in the Satan from the Bible, is known for its vocal advocacy for separation between church and state.
“To be clear, members of The Satanic Temple will not be made to pay for these punitive, superfluous, and insulting burials. We claim exemption on religious liberty grounds, and we will almost certainly prevail in the courts if we are forced to fight," the group's spokesperson Lucien Greaves told the Arkansas Times.
A member of the Satanic Temple also challenged, on the grounds of religious freedom, a Missouri law that says women must wait three days when seeking an abortion, according to The Associated Press.
Trumpians are going after abortion this term, trying to overturn Roe v. Wade. Next term they will solve the incell problem by making women property that can be assigned to incells for their right to have sex.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
Not for me it hasn't. I don't care what a woman does with her body. It's what she does with the babies body that I don't agree with.
If she wants to drink a fifth of whisky every day go right ahead. If she wants to eat so much that she balloons up to 500 pounds go ahead. If she wants to go to college or drop out of High School, go ahead. If she wants to get pregnant, go ahead. If she wants to become President of the United States, go ahead. If she wants to stay single, marry a man, or another woman, go ahead. If she wants to get plastic surgery once, twice, or 100 times, go ahead. If she wants to give the baby up for adoption, go ahead.
If she wants to kill the baby, Nope no way I will ever agree.
Missing the point, deliberately me thinks. The point raised in the post was the double standard regarding the fertility clinics full of embryos. Each of which by your own definintion is a baby.
Would I be correct in thinking you believe these should all be outlawed due to the fantastically high proportion of "babies" that die and aren't given optimal chance to live?
The more things change the more they stay the same.
How am I missing the point? This thread is a continuation of the original one. Did oldcold's post mention fertility clinics? Did PerfectSpiral (who I replied to) mention fertility clinics? NO He said
Quote:
Yep ...it’s always been about power and control over a women’s body. Just listening to all these pro birth’rs here proves that point to me.
I was pointing out that I am not against woman nor am I trying to tell them what to do with THEIR bodies. Only what they can not do with the babies bodies. You know just those who are all for abortion tell them that they can't take a 3 day old baby and rips it's arms and legs off, then suck it's brain out and throw it in the trash.
“Only what they can not do with the babies bodies. You know just those who are all for abortion tell them that they can't take a 3 day old baby and rips it's arms and legs off, then suck it's brain out and throw it in the trash.”
Hyperbole much? Fertility clinics can thaw ‘babies’ and trash them legally. A woman should have the right to do the same with a similar embryo. Anything else is about controlling a woman. Period.
Louisiana's governor, a Democrat, signs 'heartbeat' abortion bill into law
Louisiana's Democratic Gov. John Bel Edwards broke from his party's ideology Thursday and signed a bill that would prohibit women from having an abortion once a baby's heartbeat is detected, in almost all cases.
Edwards urged his Democratic colleagues to do so as well, tweeting a statement on Wednesday saying "I call on the overwhelming bipartisan majority of legislators who voted for it to join me in continuing to build a better Louisiana that cares for the least among us and provides more opportunity for everyone."
“Only what they can not do with the babies bodies. You know just those who are all for abortion tell them that they can't take a 3 day old baby and rips it's arms and legs off, then suck it's brain out and throw it in the trash.”
Hyperbole much? Fertility clinics can thaw ‘babies’ and trash them legally. A woman should have the right to do the same with a similar embryo. Anything else is about controlling a woman. Period.
It's only an embryo for a few hours in her body, and has a heart beat in a few weeks.
My stance has always been the same. There are creams, pills, implants, shots, iuds, good old comdoms, and getting fixed. I won't even include abstinence in my list. Let's face it, putting on a condom is way easier than changing diapers or saving for college. I don't even have a problem with plan b, although I'm sure we'll find out it's dangerous some day. All of thsee are far easier, both mentally and physically, than an abortion. Wouldn't it be far better to prevent a pregnancy than end one?
“Only what they can not do with the babies bodies. You know just those who are all for abortion tell them that they can't take a 3 day old baby and rips it's arms and legs off, then suck it's brain out and throw it in the trash.”
Hyperbole much? Fertility clinics can thaw ‘babies’ and trash them legally. A woman should have the right to do the same with a similar embryo. Anything else is about controlling a woman. Period.
Not a single bit of hyperbole at all. MORE OF YOUR DENILE. Do they take babies in utro and rip of their arms and legs and suck their brains out before they come out of the womb? Yes or NO???
There was an interview of John Hickenlooper I heard yesterday. In Colorado they made IUD’s low cost. The number of pregnancy’s and abortions by teens went down by 64 percent...
I don’t like abortion, but the evidence is that prevention is a better alternative.
Ultimately the state indicated that the program saved money as low income children’s were not added to public sponsored programs.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
I’m not an advocate for late term. Never claimed to be. But a 6 or 8 week abortion ban is absurd. It’s a barely formed fetus with an electrical pulse and no real circulatory system. It’s not a heart. I’ve posted scientific articles to that medical fact.
Erik. I agree. It’s easy to protect yourself. I’m all for pushing such measures into the public forum. I’m a big believer in vasectomies. I’ve half joked about making them mandatory for all 14 year old boys. I think it’s ridiculous that an 18 guy can’t get one as most doctors won’t allow it for anyone that age. You can buy cigarettes, kill foreigners in the military, vote, but you can’t make that choice. Looking back I wish I had done it in my college years. I was generally pretty smart with my intimate contacts but I’ve had condoms break. I know girls that got preggers while on the pill. Crap happens. When it does I want the choice to not have to pay for that ‘crap’ for the rest of my life. It’s no longer anything I have to worry about personally. I just want others to have that choice.
Yes, as an adult you can go of to war, but smokes, and other things. One should also be responsible enough to not start a pregnancy they don't want.
I'm a father of 6, and they were all accidents. The last one was planned, but I swear my wife got pregnant the day after she stopped taking birth control. "We'll see what happens" my butt. We didn't even drink off the same glass without a condom. We're both fixed and still worry about it. Never once did we consider an abortion, not even when we thought the pregnancy would kill her. That life inside her was half me, half her, and innocent. Unlike some in here, I know for a fact they have a personality before the end of the first trimester. A personality means they are more than the "clump of cells" that pp would have you believe.
If you dont want a baby, please plan ahead. Don't buy cheap condoms. Don't use lambskin, as they don't work. Antibiotics counteract birth control. And don't destroy a life because you're lazy.
Glad you chose to have 6 kids. Others would think it a nightmare. It should be the choice of those involved. No one else’s. Personally I’ve never wanted kids. If I had accidentally knocked up one of my girlfriends, or (ex)wife, over the years I would have wanted us to have had the option. I wouldn't have wanted to have to ask your permission. It’s that simple.
But a 6 or 8 week abortion ban is absurd. It’s a barely formed fetus with an electrical pulse and no real circulatory system. It’s not a heart. I’ve posted scientific articles to that medical fact.
It’s a zygote that looks like it could be a chicken or a human or an alligator. It’s a clump of forming cells. ... most importantly THEY DON’T BELONG TO YOU. So. Just stay out of the owners business.
It’s a zygote that looks like it could be a chicken or a human or an alligator.
But it's a human... and pro-choice people KNOW that it's a human, so stop making silly adjunct arguments that don't make any sense.
I absolutely KNOW that pro-choice people believe it's a human for 2 reasons..
1. They constantly tout their love of science. And since no zygote formed between two humans has ever, in the history of science, turned out to be a chicken or an alligator, these science loving folks have no real choice but admit it is the early stages of a human.
2. They have passed all kinds of wildlife laws that tell me they know. If I go disrupt a sea turtle egg that was laid 20 minutes ago and is still 2 months away from hatching, which has zero characteristics of an actual sea turtle, I can face $100K fine and years in jail... because they know that one day, that will be a sea turtle, not a racoon or a seagull, they know it will be a sea turtle, even from the first minute it's dropped on the beach.
Quote:
most importantly THEY DON’T BELONG TO YOU. So. Just stay out of the owners business.
This is your real argument, everything else is window dressing.
looks like it could be a chicken or a human or an alligator.
Hell I know grown men that look more like hairy gorilla's than men. Does that mean they are not men. I even get called a Knuckle dragger around here all the time
It’s a zygote that looks like it could be a chicken or a human or an alligator.
But it's a human... and pro-choice people KNOW that it's a human, so stop making silly adjunct arguments that don't make any sense.
I absolutely KNOW that pro-choice people believe it's a human for 2 reasons..
1. They constantly tout their love of science. And since no zygote formed between two humans has ever, in the history of science, turned out to be a chicken or an alligator, these science loving folks have no real choice but admit it is the early stages of a human.
2. They have passed all kinds of wildlife laws that tell me they know. If I go disrupt a sea turtle egg that was laid 20 minutes ago and is still 2 months away from hatching, which has zero characteristics of an actual sea turtle, I can face $100K fine and years in jail... because they know that one day, that will be a sea turtle, not a racoon or a seagull, they know it will be a sea turtle, even from the first minute it's dropped on the beach.
Quote:
most importantly THEY DON’T BELONG TO YOU. So. Just stay out of the owners business.
This is your real argument, everything else is window dressing.
All great except the embryos in fertility clinics aren’t considered in the same way... in your eyes they’re still ‘humans’ yet they can be thawed and trashed without any ramifications. So again. This is not about the sanctity of human life. This is about controlling a body that isn’t yours.
A fetus is a human the same way an acorn is a tree. Which is maybe one day, but not today.
Well, kind of... but if a human fetus makes it to 6 weeks, which is about when most women find out they are pregnant, it has a 90% chance of making it to term..
Every decent size oak tree can drop 10,000 acorns each year, each one has less than a .5% chance of germination...
6 accidents?!?!? My you're a slow learner aren't ya? Bless your heart.
More like me and my wife put rabbits to shame. 2 to 3 times a day set you up for a big family.
1 and 2 were youthful exuberance. 3 was a, "we'll be careful" no condom. 4 was a discovery that antibiotics lower the effacacy of the pill. 5 was a drunken, "no you don't need one" honeymoon thing. 6 was a "we want one more, so we'll see what happens" next day thing. As I said, we're both fertile as hell.
6 accidents?!?!? My you're a slow learner aren't ya? Bless your heart.
More like me and my wife put rabbits to shame. 2 to 3 times a day set you up for a big family.
1 and 2 were youthful exuberance. 3 was a, "we'll be careful" no condom. 4 was a discovery that antibiotics lower the effacacy of the pill. 5 was a drunken, "no you don't need one" honeymoon thing. 6 was a "we want one more, so we'll see what happens" next day thing. As I said, we're both fertile as hell.
All the power to you. Sounds like a slice of hell to me. LOL. I like the practice... just not the results. Snip snip.
My nephew has made a complete wreck of his life because of his incredible fertility. It’s sad. Too many kids. Not enough education. Now he lives s life of stress and debt. It breaks my heart. I had so many ‘wrap the whopper’ conversations... yet 6 kids... and no future.
I start supporting anti abortion policies when conservatives support a bill that has every man who commits adultery getting castrated as punishment.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
For so many years I've been anti abortion, pro-life, I still think I'm pro life, but, I understand now why God permited it to be legal mostly my entire life.
I didn't understand, folks would tell me, " no, abortion has to be legal because people would have coat hangers," but
in my own thoughts, I'd still not get it, I'd be like, ... "How can all these half of all people be supporting murder, or ending of a life, how can they be on that side, it SURELY cant be right."
now, sombody'll try and tell me, maybe after a hundred times of convincing, I finaly got convinced?, No, no, not so much, it was a line in a movie that made me think about it all again.
--- I spent my whole life with legal abortion, I was born around that year, somewhere around that year, not sure when Roe V Wade decision was,
an- maybe I was just foolin myself, because as soon as they started to outlaw it some places with some laws that had real "teeth" to them, I suddenly started to think, "this is freaking crazy, abortion might be illegal" and I'm not even going to be faced too much with this situation personally, I'll pull away from a gasoline gallon priced 50 cents;
but Me, even Me was seeing these new laws (mid 2000's) and thinking, "this is crazy , aboritons got to be legal, it's always been legal, sure I always voted for pro-life each and every time but I didn't think these guys were serious, surely they can't be seriously going to make it impossible to get an abortion.
over my life, I've seen thosands of marchers, women mostly, carrying signs, and shouting, pro-choice crowd, impassioned, frightened, so devoted, and
I thinks to myself, surely, for many years, (what the heck do all these want to support murder, ending a human life with so much gusto, what's the deal are they nuts?) but it hits me
They aren't crying and shouting because they like seeing baby doll parts videos, I mean, not for 30 years of watching this, surely I buy that abortion is such a messed up situation, they are somehow fighting against coat hanger procedures,
The line from the movie "Argo" is " X-fils are like abortions, you don't want or want to need one, but when you do, you want a professional. "
Best I can make out how it's said,
Pro lifers don't hate women! I never hated a woman in 30 years of Pro life enthusiasm, even would join their cause, as a pro lifer, I can't, no one can, see how anybody is on the side that ends a pure, precious, innocent human baby life
WE CAN'T HAVE BABY PARTS IN TRASH CAN VIDEOS!
nobody likes that, except callous dr. makes a living doing many a day, (I don't want that)
But I don't think these thousands of marching, frightened, pro choice ladies over 30 years have been enthusiastic about baby parts videos, or drs that do several assembly line abortions in a single day,
I gather they realize that coat hanger abortions cause dead women and a situation nobody want to be in.
nobody likes that.
Me? Well, I'll tell myself, I want to be on the side of life, got to save life at any possible point, because God wants respect for human life, and , that includes the respect for the innocent that gets taken, why I support capital punishment to end the fact that there'd be anybody that'd do things like murder and rape people who were minding their own business, (come back to that later)
but then, I find out how I felt about them actually starting to make laws to outlaw abortion, laws that had teeth, in the 2000's like I said above, and realize maybe I don't know myself as well as I thought.
So I'm left with, the dual sided coin of terrible tragedy in the abortion debate, on one side,
We cant have coat hanger, back alley abortions, and dead young women in the prime of their life, because it's so awful to " not have access" to a professional abortion.
and the other side, We can't continue to have baby parts in trash can videos, and Dr's that make their whole practice of assembly line, several a day, wham bam, a baby's dead, because we support a human lif--
For God's sakes, I wouldn't give an abortition to a DOG! not even a neighbors DOG! and we're talking about a HUMAN LIFE!
edit: I didn't always understood the one side of the coin, I didn't always understand the other.
The line from the movie that changed my mind.
Ex-fils are like abortions, you don't want or want a need one, but when you do, you want a professional.
Last edited by THROW LONG; 05/31/1907:04 PM. Reason: hit submit by accident
My guess, a new cottage industry is born. Much like as cannabis laws were being circumnavigated by doctors writing medical necessity diagnosis’s for anyone that came in complaining of ‘back pain’. I see doctors writing ‘medical need’ abortion orders more liberally.
I myself was anti-abortion. One time about 12 years ago my wife was pregnant with twin embryos. Boy I tell you what, it was my first child and we was estatic. After a couple visits to the OBGN and through ultra sounds it was found out we was going to loose the babies through miscarriage. While he broke the news to us he explained that he would have to perform a DNC ( if I pronounced that correctly). This procedure was as he explained was a way to clean out the insides and make it so we could start new and have better success next time if we tried again. The thing was he gave us a choice to have the miscarriage naturally and perform the DNC or just go ahead and perform the procedure and get it over with painlessly. (Now this is performed in a hospital not some clinic like planned parenthood. Matter of fact the same hospital my son was latter born at.) Well after talking it over we decided to do the latter. We was heart broken but regardless it was the inevitable. Well when we discussed this with our family , things turned ugly with my sister. She preached to us we was doing it wrong and it should be naturally and the Dr. is wrong and so on. ( Do note this , this is the same Dr. that deleivered my nephew / her son and he was great at what he did. and she love him as a Dr. then.) This got so ugly that we had multiple strangers locally and out of state calling my house wanting to discuss our abortion. In our eyes it was not an abortion, it was a miscarrage and still is. This put us and especially my wife through continuous hell. It got so bad my parents got involved and told her (my sister) to back the "F" off of us, and told us we was making the right choice as they gave us their full support. None the less 2 years after the procedure, we was blessed with wonderful son as we tried again.
I'm shareing this story with you as to let many people know that we've became more Pro-choice now. Not because we support killing babies but more for people keeping their noses to theirselves and stay in your lane. I made up with my sister but I will never forgive those that put my wife through the personal hell that they did when we was already grieving a miscarriage.
I had a similar experience with my 6th kid. The doctor told us that it was a nonviable pregnancy and we should get a dnc done. I resisted and had my wife get new blood tests from our family doctor that same day. Our family doctor put a rush order on the tests, which he did on a Friday, and called us on Sunday to tell us my wife was pregnant, and not to get the dnc.
We went back to the ob, where I sort of threatened them if they didn't do an ultrasound. I'll never forget the look on that doctors face when he thought he heard a heartbeat, and took us to another room with a larger monitor. We could see fingers, toes, arms, legs, and that he was a boy. Our nonviable pregnancy is now 19 years old, and is a great kid.
I had a similar experience with my 6th kid. The doctor told us that it was a nonviable pregnancy and we should get a dnc done. I resisted and had my wife get new blood tests from our family doctor that same day. Our family doctor put a rush order on the tests, which he did on a Friday, and called us on Sunday to tell us my wife was pregnant, and not to get the dnc.
We went back to the ob, where I sort of threatened them if they didn't do an ultrasound. I'll never forget the look on that doctors face when he thought he heard a heartbeat, and took us to another room with a larger monitor. We could see fingers, toes, arms, legs, and that he was a boy. Our nonviable pregnancy is now 19 years old, and is a great kid.
Your choice. Right to choose. Taking that away is just a form of controlling women to your will.
A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives. – Jackie Robinson
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/PortlandDawg/banner.jpg)
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
I even get called a Knuckle dragger around here all the time 
