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j/c
I wonder how much the way we practiced played into the amount of touches Duke got. From my understanding, we didn't tackle a lot in practices. In games, it kind of showed. Nearly every time Duke got tackled he looked slightly shook up. It's hard to leave a guy like that (one who looks "hurt") in the game to get more touches. It appeared kind of like he wasn't used to the physicality. Will he get used to it if we have more physical practices?
I'm all for keeping guys healthy. However, in retrospect, it looks like Hue may have erred much too far to the side of keeping them healthy over getting them ready for the rigors of actual games.
The CBA may have played in some, but based on some of the things Haley and Kitchens said during Hard Knocks, it didn't account for the extremes we apparently went to.
It's almost like Hue was coaching scared. Injuries are going to happen. You can't wrap guys in bubble wrap all offseason and then expect them to be able to take hits. Hue knew he didn't have much margin for error, though. Chubb was unproven and a rookie. Duke was possibly our most dynamic proven weapon going into camp last year.
I'm not trying to turn this into a bash Hue deal. Just trying to look at possible unmentioned underlying reasons for Duke's touches (or lack thereof) last season.
Any former RBs/Coaches/others have opinions on the you have to get hit to get used to getting hit idea? It's been awhile, but it seems to fit my recollection. Every season it took some time to "toughen up". We hit a lot, though. Lots of Oklahoma and angle tackling drills. I think you're absolutely spot on with this take. The CBA already severely limits the amount of practice time, and what coaches are allowed to do with that time. Football is a tough game but football players need to play football to improve. This is especially true for offenses, which require a high level of timing and rhythm to operate effectively. It is true that players sometimes get tired or banged up, but then you might have 3 backs, 3 tight ends, and 5 receivers active for a game and only a total of 5 will be on the field at once. Next man up.. having them all at 100% but none of them ready to play is great for the players, but not so great for the win column.
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i havent seen such a marginal player debated since Kenny Britt.
on the list of most talented players on the Browns,Duke isnt even top 15 if you rated them.
yeah he catches the ball but does nothing after the catch.
Dorsey has upgraded the talent level all over the roster.
sorry this isnt 2016 or 2017.
Duke can be replaced. its not that hard. Duke has a nice skill set and can be very effective with some offensive creativity. It's the combination of abilities as a back and receiver that would make him dangerous in the right hands. I agree that he can be replaced, but he's already on the team and it's unlikely another third back (after Chubb and Hunt) is going to provide similar value, so there's that. There just isn't much football to talk about right now..
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this guy is better than Kenny Britt.  
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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this guy is better than Kenny Britt. Yeah...but can he hang with Dwayne Bowe? 
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Duke Johnson and Kenny Britt in the same sentence. Wow. The disrespect.
Just to get back on true topic, I don't think anyone is disagreeing that Duke Johnson can't be replaced, as most 3rd down backs can.
The reality here is Dukes timeline as a Brown is at max 1 season. The question mark lies as to when it actually happens, and deciphering if its better to do it now versus later. Two factors on it happening more sooner, would be:
1 - Hilliards success.If he succeeds, then the front office may see him as #2 behind Chubb until Hunt gets back. Then either bring in another back, or keep someone we already have as #3 (again, until Hunt gets back).
2 - Other teams needs. If an injury happens to a starter, or a team needs to add a 'final' piece to their offense, then they may make an offer.
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I guess it is possible but most likely not probable.
You can't say: "we want guys who want to be here." And “Duke is a Cleveland Brown.” He has to be a professional.
Then Baker says "it is self inflected." And basically you are either on the train or off.
The problem is not Duke. He was told before he requested the trade. We are looking to trade you. It was common knowledge. They could not find a trade partner and get what they felt he was worth.
All the loyalty talk is just that talk. This is business. There is no loyalty either way. Think McCoy. Or any vet getting older. They are always looking to replace you with younger an cheaper.
So now what is created is self inflected. We want guys who want to be here. Oh, you are under contract; be a professional.
Duke will be gone as soon as Dorsey can get a decent return. Until then he has to be loyal.
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A lot of fans can't seem to separate business with fandom. They can't see how teams are very disloyal to players yet feel the players owe loyalty to a team. A complete double standard exists often in what we deem as fandom.
For fans it's a passion that makes them loyal to a team. For those who work in the NFL, it's their business. Two completely different perspectives.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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That is the point.
On three different occasions with three different ex-NFL players by chance I was thrown together with them in a work environment.
It was an eye opener. Because I got to spend a bunch of time with them. Work time, lunch time, outside of work time.
All three guys told me the same thing. They want that paycheck for as long as they can get it. All the rah rah stuff is for fans.
That is not to say they don't want to win. Or, if they are on a given team that they don't want the team to be successful.
Big time players that get a second contract and those that get to play ten years maybe they have more luxury for team spirit.
According to the NFL Players Association the average career length is about 3.3 years. The NFL claims that the average career is about 6 years (for players who make a club's opening day roster in their rookie season).
Duke wants to show he is worth more to another team because he knows he will not get the chance to show it here.
Given the rise of Hilliard; who "wants to be here."
It would not surprise me if Duke was cut.
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Cutting Duke would be idiotic on so many levels.
Tackles are tackles.
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That may be. But it's hard to go around and say you only want people who want to be here. And it's a total distraction having your QB making statements to the press about how this is all duke's fault. That isn't conducive to the message you're claiming to make.
So from that perspective it's not an outlandish prospect to consider.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Both outlandish and non-outlandish prospects of something happening can equally be considered idiotic.
Tackles are tackles.
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Cutting Duke would be idiotic on so many levels. If we can't find a trade option, how so?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Tackles are tackles.
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...And it's a total distraction having your QB making statements to the press about how this is all duke's fault... My goodness have you left out a TON of context there. CNN-worthy type of left out.
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...And it's a total distraction having your QB making statements to the press about how this is all duke's fault... My goodness have you left out a TON of context there. CNN-worthy type of left out. For real. Does anyone think the players are thinking about Duke Johnson other than when the media asks about him?
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I am not passing judgement.
What I said was it would not surprise me.
If somehow Freddie creates an artificial bandage and all parties start singing a different tune.
Maybe it is salvageable. But right now it is does not seem that way.
In addition someone else needs to want Duke and be willing to give up something acceptable in compensation.
Maybe it happens or maybe it does not.
Maybe Hilliard beats Duke out. Or, maybe that is what is given to the media.
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I would say it is not salvageable if Johnson didn’t show up. He’s there, that’s something. With all that said, the most likely outcome is a trade.
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...And it's a total distraction having your QB making statements to the press about how this is all duke's fault... My goodness have you left out a TON of context there. CNN-worthy type of left out. "You’re with the team, or you aren’t and that any awkwardness for Johnson is “self-inflicted.” Yeah, go ahead and spin how this wasn't negative towards Duke.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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"Maybe Hilliard beats Duke out."
This.
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...And it's a total distraction having your QB making statements to the press about how this is all duke's fault... My goodness have you left out a TON of context there. CNN-worthy type of left out. For real. Does anyone think the players are thinking about Duke Johnson other than when the media asks about him? I think players, as well as fans, will wonder if someone is really doing everything they can to win, if the player is doing their best to be traded.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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...And it's a total distraction having your QB making statements to the press about how this is all duke's fault... My goodness have you left out a TON of context there. CNN-worthy type of left out. For real. Does anyone think the players are thinking about Duke Johnson other than when the media asks about him? I think players, as well as fans, will wonder if someone is really doing everything they can to win, if the player is doing their best to be traded. Fans don’t matter in this context. If the players do the same thing they would have done anyway, it’s not a distraction.
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After we play Chubb, and Hilliard?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Calling Alluding to Hillard being more valuable than Duke at this point is you, not me.
Simply limiting Duke's role as a #2 RB after Chubb is you, not me.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 06/05/19 03:00 PM. Reason: correcting language
Tackles are tackles.
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...And it's a total distraction having your QB making statements to the press about how this is all duke's fault... My goodness have you left out a TON of context there. CNN-worthy type of left out. "You’re with the team, or you aren’t and that any awkwardness for Johnson is “self-inflicted.” Yeah, go ahead and spin how this wasn't negative towards Duke. It's the truth. I don't have a problem with it. I would have had a problem had he answered the question saying everything is slick.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Calling Hillard more valuable than Duke at this point is you, not me.
Simply limiting Duke's role as a #2 RB after Chubb is you, not me. I think it is the staffs view as well. Hilliard already has Dukes spot, and Duke knows it.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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...And it's a total distraction having your QB making statements to the press about how this is all duke's fault... My goodness have you left out a TON of context there. CNN-worthy type of left out. "You’re with the team, or you aren’t and that any awkwardness for Johnson is “self-inflicted.” Yeah, go ahead and spin how this wasn't negative towards Duke. So...your defense of your bloviating and agenda-posting is to post the answer...without including the question. Do you even know what was the question asked of Baker? Classic.
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The media asks gotchya questions all of the time. The solution is to know how to answer them. There's no agenda here. He said something he shouldn't have said. Young people do that a lot.
You could just man up and admit that and stop bloviating at any point now.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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The media asks gotchya questions all of the time. The solution is to know how to answer them. There's no agenda here. He said something he shouldn't have said. Young people do that a lot.
You could just man up and admit that and stop bloviating at any point now. So your saying your OPINION of what he said was the wrong thing to say. I wonder what the players think about what he said? The only other OPINIONS that actually matter, because yours and mine don't mean squat to them. What you perceive as fact (your opinion on this topic) means absolutely nothing more than a soft poop nugget.
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Then quit regurgitating soft poop nuggets. I keep forgetting that's the only way your ilk knows how to discuss things anymore.
You see, it doesn't really matter what "the other players think" about his comments. They are the employees. What matters is what his bosses think and how it looks in public.
I see you would much rather sling crap than actually have a discussion. Try to avoid that. It's not football talk. Keep it in the political forum where it belongs. It's not Bakers job to comment on player movements, trades and labor disputes between the FO and another player. He's a QB not in the player relations department.
Now you keep throwing insults and avoid actually holding a discussion. That's all you're good at. And not really that good at that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Some of us care more about the truth and accuracy of what people say. Others seem to care more about saying politically correct things 'at the right time'.
Some of the things that Baker says are like a breath of fresh air to the first group, but really seem to bother the second.
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Politics and business aren't the same thing. If he were being honest he would might have said, "Well, the FO put Duke on the trading block first so I can understand why he doesn't feel supported by the FO."
Is that the kind of honest you mean?
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5. If Duke Johnson doesn’t want to be here, he’s not showing it on the field. He still looks like the same, shifty, versatile back we all know.
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Politics and business aren't the same thing. If he were being honest he would might have said, "Well, the FO put Duke on the trading block first so I can understand why he doesn't feel supported by the FO."
Is that the kind of honest you mean? So you are saying you think Dorsey sucks for doing that?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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...And it's a total distraction having your QB making statements to the press about how this is all duke's fault... My goodness have you left out a TON of context there. CNN-worthy type of left out. For real. Does anyone think the players are thinking about Duke Johnson other than when the media asks about him? No offense and I am not trying to fight w/you, but this statement does not make sense to me. The media asking questions about this situation and our coaches and players having to answer them is in and of itself....a distraction. I see the sides have already hunkered down and slinging missels [not necessarily you] at the opposing lines, but having your second year qb who has less seniority in the league and has an overall losing record chastising one of his teammates in the press is not ideal. Instead, it is a distraction. I am not saying I am right and I don't want to get into the back and forth w/certain posters who always resort to personal attacks, but I think it would behoove the Browns to diffuse this situation sooner rather than later. The above are opinions.
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The media asking questions about this situation and our coaches and players having to answer them is in and of itself....a distraction. A distraction from what though? Answering a different question?
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Come on, you are smarter than that. We both know that the media is typically at the forefront of escalating stories and creating distractions. They do it by questioning each and every move a coach makes who is under the proverbial hot seat. They do it be elaborating on a player missing OTAs. They do it on pending free agency.
The constant questions are a distraction and having one player call out another player in the media is not a positive.
I hope this blows over and it may, but this is the type of distraction that this young team and new coaching staff does not need.
Again, these are my opinions.
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I want to add something that most will not understand. But, there is an unwritten rule in professional sports.
Don't ever mess w/another man's money.
That rule wasn't followed in Pittsburgh last year and holy hell broke out. We have a player on our team who does not understand that rule. He needs to mature and no statement by a media type after one day of mini-camp will change that.
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...And it's a total distraction having your QB making statements to the press about how this is all duke's fault... My goodness have you left out a TON of context there. CNN-worthy type of left out. For real. Does anyone think the players are thinking about Duke Johnson other than when the media asks about him? No offense and I am not trying to fight w/you, but this statement does not make sense to me. The media asking questions about this situation and our coaches and players having to answer them is in and of itself....a distraction. I see the sides have already hunkered down and slinging missels [not necessarily you] at the opposing lines, but having your second year qb who has less seniority in the league and has an overall losing record chastising one of his teammates in the press is not ideal. Instead, it is a distraction. I am not saying I am right and I don't want to get into the back and forth w/certain posters who always resort to personal attacks, but I think it would behoove the Browns to diffuse this situation sooner rather than later. The above are opinions. Not to nitpick, but that doesn't make sense. Baker's record in games he's played: 7-7 Duke's record in games he's played: 11-52-1 Duke's record in games he played, without Baker Mayfield: 4-45-1 I realize these aren't exactly apples to apples comparisons-- different teams, different positions, and so on. However, let's not pretend that Duke is beyond criticism because he was part of this outstanding veteran group that predated Baker's time here, or whatever you're getting at.
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I want to add something that most will not understand. But, there is an unwritten rule in professional sports.
Don't ever mess w/another man's money.
That rule wasn't followed in Pittsburgh last year and holy hell broke out. We have a player on our team who does not understand that rule. He needs to mature and no statement by a media type after one day of mini-camp will change that. Duke is under contract with the Browns and would be under the same contract if he were traded to another team. Part of the reason a team would trade for him would be to get that contract so it seems unlikely they'd renegotiate it right off the bat.
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I'm not going to argue w/you, but a qb's record is based on games started, not games played.
As for the rest, I understand why you don't think I am the one not making sense.
I was hoping for a decent conversation w/cfrs and some others, but I see that isn't going to happen. Have fun.
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