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God moved you.

Of course. I don't disagree with that at all. Like I said, the cup is neither evil or good. But a broken cup can't hold water like it was meant to. I view people much like spiritual cups. Some folks just can't hold their water or rather spirit. They can't hold it so they can't feel it or understand it. I have often seen this condition linked to depression or people searching for something they can never find. Not all of course, but certainly some.

I don't blame people or judge people for not feeling or understanding spirituality. After all if you can't feel it then it's very hard to accept it. Some people are the opposite. They feel spirit so much they are almost drunk on it.

I know that I personally can feel the presence of God at certain times in my life. I can tell the difference between a hollow church and one where the lord is there with purpose. My brother, who I love, feels none of the things I do. I don't blame him or think less of him for it. Instead I share what I can in hopes that someday he will feel what I feel too or that he will take a greater leap of faith than me and believe even when he doesn't have a way to feel things the way I do.

I leave it up to God to reveal himself in his own good time to those he chooses to call to him.

For me, it wasn't. I'm 1,300 miles from Cleveland, live in Canada and never knew a Browns fan. O barely paid attention them until the fumble game.

Why are you a Browns fan?

Bro, you aren't making sense. You "chose" to become a Brown's fan.

Theres no such thing as a genetic Browns fan.

You are indocrinated in some form or fashion.

No, I believe in my soul that it '"just happened'.... I've always compared it to falling in love - you don't choose that, it just happens.

jc….

On my travels I've been seeing more and more churches boarded up, or up for sale....I guess there is a growing number of ppl who share the op's perspective....

The most interesting discussion would be what are the repercussions if that is indeed true? Of course, we can't have that on this board because ignorance and bias reigns supreme.

Happening in a lot of places. People don't go to church every Sunday as they once did. People are busier, with too many things on the go. In the small town I live in, two Catholic Churches have closed in recent years, while another teeters on the brink. Sign of the times, and probably won't get any better.

I think there is a huge misconception that causes some to connect religion to spirituality. I do not see them as the same thing at all. I don't believe you need a group, a religion or a church building to be a spiritual human being.

Well, they're pretty good at raising money.

I wonder how many of those churches you saw empty had simply built a bigger, better church? Or even reached what appears to be the ultimate goal of some, mega church status.

Lot's of things we can't explain my friend. Where does outer space end? How does gravity work? - The greatest and most brilliant scientists in the world can't answer these questions. They can't prove or disprove God either. Personally, I think the concept of God drives some scientists crazy. - They are so brilliant and can quantify so many things but no matter how hard they try they can't explain God.

Essentially, no human being alive has the intellectual capacity to understand or prove God. I personally believe in God because it is nearly impossible to explain things that happen right in front of us that we can't see or track. Take childbirth for instance, cells that we can't see merge and despite being microscopic, they know how and when to divide and what to do once they've divided. - The finished product is you, me, everybody. And no matter how smart we are, no matter how hard we try, we could never merge onto each other and form some supreme being. This process, to me, gives insight into God's brilliance. Once his work is done we are here to thrive and discover but we could never duplicate or come close to God's brilliance. Interesting stuff if you think about it. I'd love to read your thoughts in response.

Hi RememberMuni I haven't seen you in a while good to hear from you again. We got to remember how many different religions there are and we got remember each one man created. Christ was also supposed to come back over 19 centuries ago.I believe there is a creator just not the god man created with religion. I don't believe in the word of Christ or in angels or heaven or eternal life. One day we will all find out the truth.

And you said you learned that from the Bible.

"The basic reason there is a debate about the delay in Christ’s return is that Jesus told the first generation of his disciples that he would be back before the last of that crew kicked the bucket: “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power” (Mark 9:1).

He assured them, “Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place” (13:30)—“all these things” apparently including reference to the “Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.”

In light of that promise he adjured them again and again, “keep alert . . . keep awake . . . keep awake” (Mark 13:33-37), for “truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes” (Matt. 10:23).

Admittedly, he said that nobody would know the “hour or the day” of his return, but in general terms, Jesus definitely prophesied that he would be back before the end of the first century.

And since we are still here, it seems like he was pretty wrong!"

"And if the basic message of Jesus was wrong, then how can anyone presume to find “salvation” through faith in him?

More pointedly, why are people living and dying in hopes of being received into the Kingdom of Heaven when the terms of that offer (its nearness) seems to have expired nineteen centuries ago?"

I've always felt that parts of the Bible are metaphor. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe in God and the Holy Bible, but don't forget that metaphors are interpreted differently.

Can you list a full quote that makes you question the Bible to see if I can make sense of it for myself and try to express my interpretations to you?

You use some verses as if the next don't exist at all. I will answer the 1st of your verses.

Mark 9:1; And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

What happens in the very next 6 verses?

Mark 9:2-7; 2 After six days Jesus took Peter, James and John with him and led them up a high mountain, where they were all alone. There he was transfigured before them. 3 His clothes became dazzling white, whiter than anyone in the world could bleach them. 4 And there appeared before them Elijah and Moses, who were talking with Jesus.

5 Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 6 (He did not know what to say, they were so frightened.)

7 Then a cloud appeared and covered them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!”

(Ytown's note: The cloud was a form in which God had used to guide His people from Egypt)

These 2 right here:

“Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power” (Mark 9:1).

He assured them, “Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place” (13:30)—“all these things” apparently including reference to the “Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.

It never happened before their death. There also was no second coming like he said there would be. Too many falseaties for me.

There are 2 times that could be considered "kingdom of God has come with power."

One is the one I referenced, that occurred immediately after the verse you quoted. The Glory of God was in full display.

The 2nd is the resurrection of Christ. He was "glorified", going to His death as a sheep to the slaughter, to accomplish God's purposes. He was then returned to life, and after having spent 40 days with His disciples, Jesus was lifted up to Heaven.

Jesus said that only The Father knows the hour when He will return to judge the world.

If you read Mark 13, Jesus breaks events down into 2 categories. Things that must occur, and in fact, did occur, as the temple was razed, and Israel was all but crushed.

Then he speaks of things to come later, at a time only the Father knows.

24-27: “But in those days, following that distress,

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

Then in 32, Jesus says that even He does not know the hour of the final events.

32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come.

Reading one Bible verse is never wise, because often confusing items are cleared up shortly thereafter.

I think the first thing to understand God is to remove references (including the prophets) and religion from the discussion.

They just obscure the truth.

The danger in removing the Bible from trying to know God is that inevitably everyone makes up their own god, who does exactly what they think this "god" should do, in a warped inversion of creation obeying the creator.

As if that never happened before...

Agreed.

I think the BEST place - and perhaps the only REAL place - to find God is outside of any religion. Find your own understanding and eschew dogmatic teachings.

Keep in mind that I am not well versed in the bible, I don't know much of the history behind and around it, so these are my interpretations. I am a special education teacher who helps kids learn how to behave while also providing math and reading intervention.

I personally feel that the people who wrote the bible and 10 commandments were incredibly smart. To me, the words within the bible are a source of comfort for so much of what plagues us today - stress, violence, misguidance, etc. While the 10 commandments are a perfect guide to leading a calm, peaceful life.

Regarding the first quote you posted "“Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power” (Mark 9:1)."

I feel that if you take this quote literally, then yeah you'd be disappointed that people never saw this grand kingdom of God come down from the clouds. But if you interpret it differently as I do then you might think that the kingdom of God comes down with power in numerous ways and that those people, like many of us, saw it before they died- food being shared amongst the poor, people living through destruction, a baby being born to somebody who was told it would never happen, somebody who gets wronged but responds with kindness, somebody who receives a violent blow to the head or body but lives to tell about it. - This is how I interpret God's power.

A couple quotes that I read again and again to deal with my biggest enemy: stress.

"Cast your cares on the LORD and he will sustain you; he will never let the righteous be shaken." Psalm 55:22

"So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand." Isaiah 41:10


Keep in mind that when I found these quotes it was in a period of major stress in my life. I didn't start reading the bible, rather I went to google and searched Bible quotes about stress. These quotes came up and really helped me regain confidence.
I hope you found this insight interesting and I'd love to keep corresponding if you have any more questions.

You are much too logical, cooperative, kind, self-effacing, and reasonable to participate on this board.

I better add that I mean all of that as a compliment.

Thank you Verse. Now that I'm old I kind of learned how to evolve with people. I remember posting on here when this site still belonged to Browns.com and I used to get into it with so many people still on here. You, DC, GM, Arch, 'Peen, to name a few.

LOL............the good ol' days.

the bible is man made. so it was warped from the jump.

"The danger in removing the Bible from trying to know God is that inevitably everyone makes up their own god, who does exactly what they think this "god" should do, in a warped inversion of creation obeying the creator."

I always point to the Ten Commandments, and also the 7 deadly sins as central messages to respect for myself, my family, and my friends. Granted, the 7 deadly sins aren't in the bible but they have roots from the church. I think of how brilliant and influenced by God these people must have been to create such guiding principles thousands upon thousands of years ago. It really is incredible.

"the bible is man made. so it was warped from the jump."

I get your point. But, in my opinion, there is such a thing as spiritual guidance that may have been an influence on the people who wrote the Bible. Kind of like a positive action or feeling that overcomes us that normally wouldn't. I'm sure you've had moments like this. Learning how to ride a bike independently for the first time, watching a struggling reader read for the first time, watching the weakest kid on the team hit a home-run in baseball. - Stuff like this, but as adults thousands of years ago.

One thing I think one needs to keep in mind is that Churches acted as the government in many instances. They ran nations and set the laws. So it's only natural that you would have things like the Ten Commandments and the seven deadly sins as guidelines for the people to follow.

this issue is that for that to be logical, it has to apply to ALL religions.

not just the one you think is the right one.

We all worship the same God, IMO. We just battle over the politics of religion.

Christ is my road to God. Buddha is another's road to God.

God created us, God also knows the message to bring us home.


Who am I to say another persons road to God is a dead end?? If it is, they chose wrong. And I think the only wrong choice is to not believe.

Of course it was..Jesus was a man and his so was his disciples.




I would hope not...


I just bought 2 new Bibles yesterday.. NIV study Bibles. I read them because It's a cool story.

Harry Potter is a cool story..Most books are cool if that's what you like to read.

I read the bible because that's what i like to read...It's what I want to read so I can learn about something I'm still learning about.

I Pray to God I won't let any man not even Christ pull me away from God. I don't need any man to save me If Im worthy God will save me.

Buddhism doesn't integrate God nor heaven in their philosophies, but I agree with your post.

Just to answer this idea:

You do realize that this directly conflicts with what Christ taught? Jesus taught that no man goes to the Father except by the Son. No man.

If we truly believe in Christ, then why would we dismiss what He taught?

I put my faith in God not man. Do you think God would need any man to save his own children.