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When you have fans that boo everything an organization does, regardless of if it's in the best long-term interest of the team, things aren't helped.
Fans do this because it is winning that counts to us. Leave the X's and O's to the people that get paid for it. And when a team sucks as bad as we have for so long the fans have every right in the world to boo. And if you want to talk best long term interest, I have heard it all before. When does it become the best interest of today or the fans? Are you sure your going to be here next year? F--- waiting that is for losers!  Your attitude sucks, and i'm sorry if you don't like it but losing can become a habit and it has here and guys like you keep it going!
God I feel so much better after getting that off my chest 
That's great, because I think your attitude sucks as well. It's fans like you that have helped perpetrate the revolving door culture since the return.
Do you really think constant change is good for an NFL franchise? If you look at the most consistently good franchises in the league, they're the ones that have kept regimes around for long periods of time. They're the ones that keep players and personnel around the longest to install their systems and keep a constant flux of the right players flowing through. The ones that are downright awful are... teams like us.
When I say teams like us, I'm talking about teams that fire their coaches after a year or two because they aren't pleased with the results, and start from scratch. That guy has to start from scratch, fails because we didn't show enough patience, and we fire him for the next guy, repeating a vicious cycle. Same thing goes with the quarterbacks. If a guy stinks at quarterback, fans are instantly calling for the next guy, even if the real way to win is to show PATIENCE in Quinn's case.
I know we've been losing for a long time and I am NOT content with sucking wind for this many years like you seem to suggest - I am just as sick of losing as you are. However, what you don't seem to realize is that the best way to WIN is to let the current regime continue to build itself up and execute its plan. If fans boo every quarterback other than Quinn from now until he starts, and management rushes Quinn in too early and ruins him like has happened to so many quarterbacks before him, you're going to be the guy in the stands booing Quinn for the next guy to be rushed in and ruined. It's stupid.
How many times have we actually let a regime execute their five year plan to completion? This one is close, with Brady Quinn being the crown jewel that may save the franchise. Give the current guys just a bit more time and we'll all be rewarded - it's been one game. If you want to see this team win, you need to realize that what we need is PATIENCE, not boos. It's quite funny that in your and other's great desire to win now, we're actually cost wins in the long run.
We're... we're good?
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The more I think about it I don't understand why they don't just go to Quinn.
Bill Parcells disagree's. The multiple Super Bowl winner says we should keep Quinn on the bench the whole year. I agree with him.
Oh yeah? How'd Drew Bledsoe do his rookie year? Poor, but not terrible and hardly damaged.
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Coach Romeo Crennel, who met with the media at noon, hinted he will name a new starting quarterback but held off so he could inform the players first.
It's common knowledge that there will be changes but in no way did RAC hint there would be a QB change,.......friggin media 
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"If Brady's playing, he'll be the best quarterback for this team," said tight end Steve Heiden, a team captain. "I can guarantee you that. I think we're all on the same page, and we all want the best person to play."
This says alot for BQ,....these guys play with him everyday and they know if he's ready or not.
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The Browns brought quarterback Brady Quinn's mentor, Ken Dorsey, back to their facility in Berea on Monday evening and probably will re-sign him today.
I love this!!,.....the problem is it throws egg on the face of RAC,....QB evaluation and selection is definately not one of RAC's strong points,...but I'm sure he's learned alot from this experience.
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j/c
Unless Zastudil is still really hurting, I don't see us cutting one of our QBs or someone else and keeping both Zastudil AND Ernster on the squad. The personnel move will more than likely be something very tame like that instead of a "big" move that many people are expecting/hoping for.
JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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The more I think about it I don't understand why they don't just go to Quinn.
Bill Parcells disagree's. The multiple Super Bowl winner says we should keep Quinn on the bench the whole year. I agree with him.
Man,...funny how things get twisted,....that's not what he said AT ALL,...he said it depends on how well he knows the playbook and that you can't put the kid in if he's not ready.
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"If Brady's playing, he'll be the best quarterback for this team," said tight end Steve Heiden, a team captain. "I can guarantee you that. I think we're all on the same page, and we all want the best person to play."
This says alot for BQ,....these guys play with him everyday and they know if he's ready or not.
Wow that quote was taken completely out of context. I saw the interview.
Heiden said if Frye's the QB then he's the best QB for the team. If DA's the QB then he's the best QB for the team. If Quinn's the QB then he's the best QB for the team.
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The more I think about it I don't understand why they don't just go to Quinn.
Bill Parcells disagree's. The multiple Super Bowl winner says we should keep Quinn on the bench the whole year. I agree with him.
Man,...funny how things get twisted,....that's not what he said AT ALL,...he said it depends on how well he knows the playbook and that you can't put the kid in if he's not ready.
Wow, he kept saying Palmer sat the ENTIRE year, that's why he's good. Learn to comprehend.
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"If Brady's playing, he'll be the best quarterback for this team," said tight end Steve Heiden, a team captain. "I can guarantee you that. I think we're all on the same page, and we all want the best person to play."
This says alot for BQ,....these guys play with him everyday and they know if he's ready or not.
Wow that quote was taken completely out of context. I saw the interview.
Heiden said if Frye's the QB then he's the best QB for the team. If DA's the QB then he's the best QB for the team. If Quinn's the QB then he's the best QB for the team.
He also said "based on what I've seen, I think he's ready."
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"If Brady's playing, he'll be the best quarterback for this team," said tight end Steve Heiden, a team captain. "I can guarantee you that. I think we're all on the same page, and we all want the best person to play."
This says alot for BQ,....these guys play with him everyday and they know if he's ready or not.
Wow that quote was taken completely out of context. I saw the interview.
Heiden said if Frye's the QB then he's the best QB for the team. If DA's the QB then he's the best QB for the team. If Quinn's the QB then he's the best QB for the team.
He also said "based on what I've seen, I think he's ready."
Still doesn't change the fact the media took what he said completely out of context.
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What about the fans that said other fans are having a "knee jerk reaction", to the fans that want Crennel fired? After one game our own coaches and GM might cut one of the QBs that were fighting for a job at the beggining of camp.
I think they should keep 4 QBs on the roster and hopefully the REAL punter can play this week.
When one gets cut, put him on IR.
Dorsey is a poor mans Kosar. A Miami QB with brains that makes up for a lack of physical skills.
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The more I think about it I don't understand why they don't just go to Quinn.
Bill Parcells disagree's. The multiple Super Bowl winner says we should keep Quinn on the bench the whole year. I agree with him.
And Jimmy Johnson disagrees with Parcells. The multiple Super Bowl winner says that Quinn should start as soon as possible. I don't necessarily agree with him, but there is no exact science to this, there are multiple opinions on how to handle it.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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The more I think about it I don't understand why they don't just go to Quinn.
Bill Parcells disagree's. The multiple Super Bowl winner says we should keep Quinn on the bench the whole year. I agree with him.
Man,...funny how things get twisted,....that's not what he said AT ALL,...he said it depends on how well he knows the playbook and that you can't put the kid in if he's not ready.
Wow, he kept saying Palmer sat the ENTIRE year, that's why he's good. Learn to comprehend.
OK,...he DID say that about PALMER,...I guess I should have ASSumed that's what he meant about BQ as well,...even though he NEVER said that.  man,...talk about puting words in peoples mouths 
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Pittsburgh went 15-0 with a rookie QB after losing game one a couple years ago. They also have a way better line. There is no exact science. Some guys are ready and some guys need to sit the bench 3 years to make an impact(Romo,McNair). I think if Frye can sit another year or 2, which was the plan, he will be alright. I dont think Anderson will ever improve on his accuracy.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty, than those attending too small a degree of it."- Thomas Jefferson on Freedom of Speech
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Bottom line is this.... Tim Couch started his first year, and look how he ended up. Peyton Manning started his first year, and look how he ended up. There is no right answer here! We can all have our opinions, but they don't matter. Just because some people have played and failed, doesn't mean Brady can't play and succeed. Just because some people have played and succeeded doesn't mean that Brady won't fail. There is no right answer to the question "Should he play now?". No one knows. Now, everyone ignore the voice of reason and get back to your arguing over if he should play  
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The more I think about it I don't understand why they don't just go to Quinn.
Bill Parcells disagree's. The multiple Super Bowl winner says we should keep Quinn on the bench the whole year. I agree with him.
Ron Jaworski disagree's. The once Pro Bowl starting NFL QB said we should start Quinn right away.
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IMO, Bready is the best QB on this team RIGHT NOW.
Should be play him? I dunno if that's wise or not.
Derek Anderson is going to start Sunday, IMO and probably will stay there until BQ is ready (maybe he already is, at least as ready as the other QBs).
We have seen the last of CF as a starter.. goodbye and good luck charlie. DA would be a better backup because he can come in cold off the bench and get it done, already proved it.
I don't blame Lerner for being upset.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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To me, even though Anderson played a tad' bit better... We all know that Frye normally gets the Browns down the field a little better.
The Browns will probably bring in Dorsey, but I really doubt they will part ways w/ Charlie Frye after 1 bad game. Not even a bad game, but a bad quarter. The punt mishap made it seem like Frye did that much worse, and just added to the stinch.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns carry 4 QB's, after Zastudil comes back, where they can cut the other punter.
If Brady does start, I think he can handle it. Those wanting him to wait, I mean he has to face these teams at some point right?
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They make glue factories part of the horsey experience to. Frye deserves to be put down; "I gotta play better"?! Is he supposing he could play worse, that there a few more things and even more downside we haven't seen? It was Stoolers, given and granted. It was also a gradeschool flag performance; we joked about his apparent non-injury PUP status. Did NOT seem physically capable; if Quinn gets roughed up he can look back on that extended vacation. Shoot the wounded and forced march. CAUTION: Be careful what you wish for! May the Elf be with us! 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Forgot patient, pleasant, cultured, and forgiving. Get with it, huh?! Sheesh!! <GGG> May the Elf be with us!
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Randy is not happy and tired of what he has seen on the field ... The organization itself looks terrible .. There can be no doubt in any " Fans " mind that Lerner is not satisfied with not only RAC. but Savage ( the man that supply's the personal ) When Mr. RL. sits down and looks at what the Dino Duo have done in three years with a frre hand and his money , welllllllllllll .... Bottom line , anything is possible at this point .
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So if we still suck at a couple thousand PSI after the obvious BQ Ascension to the Qubee, is it officially Heiden's fault? dorsey? RAC can't be eating all of this. Frey should be charged a season ticket, pressbox rate for having the best seat in the house to camp out and watch the game. May the Elf be with us!
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Cowher said it was the O-lines fault. I'm not sure I agree with that but I do tend to listen him over some of the Paris Hilton Quarterback School Grads on here. Ammo- Valdictorian, Rizue- Salutorian. But we do need to get moving on ruining Quinn Heres what we should do and I'm sure Am & Ris will agree. We cut Frye and Anderson, Pick up Leftwich, StartDorsey until Leftwich learns the book, StartLeftwich until Quinn is ready, bench Quinn after he has a bad game and trade up in the draft and take Brome unless we can work a trade for Troy Smith. We should fire RAC and hire Charlie Weis. Then we would'nt even have to buy the new coach new side line cloths. This is just some of the stuff I have read on here.
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The more I think about it I don't understand why they don't just go to Quinn.
Bill Parcells disagree's. The multiple Super Bowl winner says we should keep Quinn on the bench the whole year. I agree with him.
Ron Jaworski disagree's. The once Pro Bowl starting NFL QB said we should start Quinn right away.
Considering it doesn't make a difference to any of them on what happens to Quinn or the Browns, I couldn't care less what any of them think.
#gmstrong
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Keep dreamin' Clay...Dorsey's not goin' anywhere as a Coach dressed in Civy's...He'll be "Coachin" alright...On the sidelines in a Browns Jersey...
Course not..it goes back to what I said..I felt they shoulda cut DA..he doesn't have a brain but a arm which he can't control.
Dorsey doesn't have a arm but he KNOWS THE OFFENSE and is smart..
So..if starter can't do it, then Dorsey's in to manage the game and tutor Frye.
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Well, look at my signature to get my thoughts on Ken... Woohoo!  Why not start Quinn? If he can play, then he should be out there, because no one else on the staff is getting it done. He has arguably alot of weapons on the field, nothing like Couch had when he was thrown in, and no other QB has been utilizing it. If Quinn does get the call, we need to keep our knee-jerk reactions to a minimum... I can imagine Quinn having a bad game, and everybody running on here hollering that they knew he was a bad pick, and that we should start CF again (with the 'Fire RAC!' topics too  ) If Quinn starts, we just need to let him grow. Payton went 3-13 in his first season, and in the next? 13-3.
I want the Cleveland Browns to be my pallbearers so they can let me down for the last time.
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This is eerily similar to 1999.
Eerily similar? It's not eerily similar, it's EXACTLY like 1999...
Dude, you are right on...
Kellen Winslow... Mark Campbell...
Joe J.... Darrin Chiaverinni...
Braylon Edwards.... Kevin Johnson.....
Jamal Lewis... Terry Kirby....
Steve Heiden.... Irv Smith....
Hank Fraley.... Jim Pyne....
Eric Steinbach.... Dave Wohlobaugh...
Joe Thomas.... Orlando Brown.....
Ryan Tucker.... Lomas Brown....
Yea, it's 1999 all over again....
yebat' Putin
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Brady needs to play....If he himself is ready....If we sit him due to the weapons or players weve surrounded him with than for the past two years we've done a poor job in FA & the Draft.
Last edited by ClayM57; 09/11/07 10:40 AM.
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Cowher said it was the O-lines fault. I'm not sure I agree with that but I do tend to listen him over some of the Paris Hilton Quarterback School Grads on here. Ammo- Valdictorian, Rizue- Salutorian. But we do need to get moving on ruining Quinn Heres what we should do and I'm sure Am & Ris will agree. We cut Frye and Anderson, Pick up Leftwich, StartDorsey until Leftwich learns the book, StartLeftwich until Quinn is ready, bench Quinn after he has a bad game and trade up in the draft and take Brome unless we can work a trade for Troy Smith. We should fire RAC and hire Charlie Weis. Then we would'nt even have to buy the new coach new side line cloths. This is just some of the stuff I have read on here.
I think you were trying to be amusing/funny? Fail. 0/10.
Edit: Figure I'll add my $0.02. As expected (by me), Frye is still not good. Anderson still can't hit his targets (but at least moved out of the pocket and didn't hold the ball for 5+ seconds).
If we can find any way to keep Quinn on the bench until after the Patriots game, that would be good. He shouldn't start yet, soon but not yet. So that leaves Dorsey, definitely not starting material, but should be able to run the offense a lot better than 3/9.
Last edited by TripleOption; 09/11/07 10:48 AM.
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One week ago, we were excited about the upcoming season, willing to give Frye a shot until the bye week when a prepared Quinn came in and we were going to compete for a .500 record. Now, people want Frye cut after a half of football,
yeah but that was before frye looked like a HS quarterback in that half after having 9 months to prepare for this game.
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One week ago, we were excited about the upcoming season, willing to give Frye a shot until the bye week when a prepared Quinn came in and we were going to compete for a .500 record. Now, people want Frye cut after a half of football,
yeah but that was before frye looked like a HS quarterback in that half after having 9 months to prepare for this game.
He looked awful, no doubt. What I'm saying is that to cut a player you named the starter after how much camp and pre-season and a player you were willing to put faith in as the franchise QB before Quinn fell into your lap... that's just ridiculous IMO. It was one game and not even one half of a game. We need more justification than that for cutting Frye to be anything more than a collosal knee jerk.
We're... we're good?
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This is eerily similar to 1999.
Yea, it's 1999 all over again....
I used to make the exact same argument, but I've realized that just because the talent is better doesn't mean we didn't look like an absolute mess.
Our line didn't look cohesive or dominant whatsoever, Lewis looked sluggish and our receivers had the dropsies. Granted, some of that is the Steelers' defense and some of that is our QB situation, but that still doesn't change the fact that it's clear this team isn't operating even close to maximum efficiency yet.
Give everyone a few weeks to get adjusted, develop chemistry, get a few key players back (Tuck and hopefully LeCharles) and get into mid-season form, then put Quinn into the middle of THAT. IMO, right now, I'm not sure the situation to succeed is in place yet, but it sure should be by the bye week.
We're... we're good?
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that's just ridiculous
What else would you expect from this Organization. This is an organization that flips coins to make decisions. This is an organization that evaluated the QB position for 8 months. Then 1 1/2 quarters into the season, said, whoops, we blew our 8 month evaluation. Time to cut him, or trade him for a magical coin. A magical coin that will come up with the right solution everytime.
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Eerily similar? It's not eerily similar, it's EXACTLY like 1999...
Dude, you are right on...
Yea, it's 1999 all over again....
1999 Season Opener: Steelers 43 Browns 0
2007 Season Opener: Steelers 34 Browns 7
1999 Browns 2-14
2006 Browns 4-12
<sarcasm>You are right. I am too prone to embellishment. In 8 years, the Browns have managed to close the gap by 16 points. Another 14 or 15 years of this and we should win more than 1 out of 13 divisional games.
Looking at the win/loss record... again I was too stern. These Browns are fully twice as good as the 1999 Browns.</sarcasm>
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This is eerily similar to 1999.
Eerily similar? It's not eerily similar, it's EXACTLY like 1999...
Dude, you are right on...
Kellen Winslow... Mark Campbell...
Joe J.... Darrin Chiaverinni...
Braylon Edwards.... Kevin Johnson.....
Jamal Lewis... Terry Kirby....
Steve Heiden.... Irv Smith....
Hank Fraley.... Jim Pyne....
Eric Steinbach.... Dave Wohlobaugh...
Joe Thomas.... Orlando Brown.....
Ryan Tucker.... Lomas Brown....
Yea, it's 1999 all over again....
Wow...just...wow
I really think our offensive line is finally legitimate. The Steelers D HAS to be spread out for anything to be effective at it. To beat their blitzes getting rid of the ball quick is key.
There were a couple plays where Frye held the ball more than 5 seconds. There's no offensive line in the world that can block forever.
It appears as though the sentiment through the team might be that Quinn is the best QB. If thats true RAC HAS to put him in...if he doesnt he'll lose the team.
I don't think you can compare Quinn to Couch. Couch ran a gimmicky spread offense in a smaller school, vs Quinn running a pro offense at ND.
I've seen it thrown around that Couch's arm was shot because his mechanics were never fixed. Brady has the best footwork of any QB we've had. This is going off his ND days of course too. Even in preseason he looked far more comfortable in the pocket, and seemed to have command of the huddle.
If we're going to Brady before the Bye...this is the best week to do it. Jamal should have some running room against Cincy.
JMHRambling
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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Y'know what Merth... I could give you a bunch of stats about our margin of defeat in 1999 being greater than two touchdowns per game compared to less than one touchdown last year, I could give you a game by game of the ones were in right until the end.. I could give you all of that. But what's the point, you aren't going to listen.... If you can't see the difference between the talent and the potential on this team as compared to 1999, then I can't help you. I feel like crap having been blown out by Pittsburgh too... but (back to the original point) if you think putting Quinn in now is even remotely close to putting Couch in back in 1999..... then it's just not worth the time to debate it...
yebat' Putin
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Y'know what Merth... I could give you a bunch of stats about our margin of defeat in 1999 being greater than two touchdowns per game compared to less than one touchdown last year, I could give you a game by game of the ones were in right until the end.. I could give you all of that. But what's the point, you aren't going to listen.... If you can't see the difference between the talent and the potential on this team as compared to 1999, then I can't help you. I feel like crap having been blown out by Pittsburgh too... but (back to the original point) if you think putting Quinn in now is even remotely close to putting Couch in back in 1999..... then it's just not worth the time to debate it...
There is nothing to debate. I will ABSOLUTELY agree there is exponentially more talent on this team in 2007 than was here in 1999. I think the difference in our perspective is I am being realistic and you are being (out of kindness) overly optimistic.
The Browns have drafted #3 overall 2 of the past 3 years. The Browns have finished the season with double digits in the loss column each of the past 4 seasons.
The team appeared to take steps backward from 2005 to 2006. Sunday's opener left the impression that another 4-12 season could easily be headed our way.
While the cupboard may not be bare as it was in 1999 - there is only marginal progress displayed ON THE FIELD.
It is hard to convince me that a team that fumbles the first punt attempt and commits FOUR penalties on one play should throw a rookie QB on the field.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum NFL.com reports that Ken Dorsey
was at the Browns facility today.
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