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I think that's a big part of the problem. He had what,two months before the draft when he was hired? I think he hired the best candidate he could find willing to make a suicide pack!
THAT isn't correct..Rac was Lerner's/Collins choice BEFORE the Superbowl.
They had interviewed him but couldn't touch him .
That was before Phil was hired.
From the reports Rac wasn't Phil's first choice but he respected the choice and worked with it..thats why those(and only a few) WHO CLAIM both are tied are off base.
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Then we need to see some results.
The reality is RAC has 2-3 more games. His future depends on how we do over the next few games.
we certainly do need to see some results.. the difference between me and you is that you want the results yesterday and I doubt that could have happened given the talent on this team..
But today, we do appear to be a much more talented team than when RAC came aboard. On that, I think we agree.
But the way some people talk, you would think that that talent was here the day that RAC arrived.
How often have you either said or heard someone say that RAC is starting his 3rd year, by now we should begin to see results.... You have either said it or heard it often lately,,,right?
Well, it's not like that talent arrived the same day that RAC did and that he's had 3 camps to get it into shape.. They've trickled in over those three offseasons and have just now gotten to the point that they are here and available to work.
So while he's been here going on this 3 season, that talent that we talk about, hasn't!
Which by the way is why I think all this talk about getting rid of RAC is way too premature.
But that's JMO, and as we all know, my opinion has been a bit off lately, so take it with a grain of salt! 
#GMSTRONG
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j/c...
I really want Romeo to be our coach, but on a side note, I really think Marty is waiting for that call from the Browns..
I think he would take it in a heartbeat.
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Well at least we'd get to the playoffs..we just wouldn't go any further 
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"I really think Marty is waiting for that call from the Browns..
I think he would take it in a heartbeat."
I don't dispute your statement but do wonder where it comes from?
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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How often have you either said or heard someone say that RAC is starting his 3rd year, by now we should begin to see results.... You have either said it or heard it often lately,,,right?
Shouldn't we expect to see them atleast more prepared?
You and I BOTH agreed that he carried preparation over a 2 game span in the pre-season... Denver and Chicago BOTH playoff teams I might add... Yes it was pre-season but the starters down to the scrubs were on the same page and that has ALOT to do with coaching... He has shown brief glimpses of team preparation through his tenure but the record in the regular season hasn't carried that over yet...
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Well, it's not like that talent arrived the same day that RAC did and that he's had 3 camps to get it into shape..
Well as I agree roster wise with this statement, just look at the record since he got here... The team actually digressed in year 2 after he had his 2nd draft and FA period to get HIS players in here... This is a game of results and they speak volumes over opinions of both you and I...
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But today, we do appear to be a much more talented team than when RAC came aboard. On that, I think we agree.
I agree as well but what bothers me, the roster is compiled of HIS players that him and Savage put together... His excuses are running out and it is time that the fans start to expect more than below avg. from their coach...
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Which by the way is why I think all this talk about getting rid of RAC is way too premature.
Why is it pre-mature? By your own admission, we have had now 3 offseasons to build this roster up.. Shouldn't we by now expect to see the team more prepared?
I am not calling for his head but I am calling for him to pull it out of his ass... It is time to MAN UP and motivate these players that he has...
1 division win in 12 games is UNACCEPTABLE! It is time for us fans to expect more than below avg. and stop accepting the same old excuses... Is an improvement in gameday preparation and a few extra games on our record too much to ask? at this rate, 8-8 is a pipe dream but it may be the only way HAC saves his ass from being unemployed after this season...
Just my .02
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j/k
To all of the RAC must go crowd.
I am not saying that he should stay but I don't see where all the talent everyone speaks of is. We have a hand full of INDIVIDUALS that are talented but we don't have a very talented TEAM.
In my opinion we have about 7-8 guys that I'm really excited about. Of those guys 3 are rookies. We can't expect much from them. That leaves about 5 quality players. I just don't think any coach could win more than 5 games with this team.
If this team is so talented then why does every Vegas Odds maker have us last in the division and close to the bottom of the entire NFL. 9 times out of 10 Vegas is right.
I think some on here need to take a realistic look at the talent level and then ask themselves how bad is RAC really. Why don't we wait to see how the season plays out?
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A group of individuals becomes a team through great leadership. A team can become a group of individuals through poor leadership.
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Well at least we'd get to the playoffs..we just wouldn't go any further
Babysteps... you have to reach the playoffs before you can go further... 
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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They had interviewed him but couldn't touch him .
That was before Phil was hired.
From the reports Rac wasn't Phil's first choice but he respected the choice and worked with it..
That's fine. So "real football minds" didn't pick RAC at all!
Businessmen did. That helps explain things.
Looks like Savage was right not to have had RAC as his "first choice". Bet Phil gets some BIG TIME say in the next head coach.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Then we need to see some results.
The reality is RAC has 2-3 more games. His future depends on how we do over the next few games.
That about sums it up IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Shouldn't we expect to see them atleast more prepared?
Absolutly,, we should and last Sunday, they were NOT prepared for a VERY VERY Good team to come in and run over them like a steam roller over asphalt!
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Well as I agree roster wise with this statement, just look at the record since he got here...
Well what was it you expected.. I mean they had to tear the team they inherited apart and begin to rebuild it stone by stone, step by step. I have to wonder how anyone can agree with my statement about the talent level not being there until now then question the record over that last several years.. that doesn't compute!
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Why is it pre-mature? By your own admission, we have had now 3 offseasons to build this roster up
THIS IS THE THIRD SEASON! The Talent is just getting here and up to speed... it takes time.. We've only played ONE game... Geesh
How many times have we seen it before.. Team looks bad,, really bad at the beginning of a season then turns it around.. It happens,
All I'm saying is that it's just too early in the whole thing to kick RAC to the curb,,,
What I'm NOT saying is that anyone has to agree with me.. In fact, my track record predicting things is so bad, I'm not sure I agree with me
In other words, you have to believe what you think,,,,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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.. We've only played ONE game... Geesh
I take acception with that comment. I didn't see our team play at all. And that's the bulk of the problem.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Did you mean "take exception" cause the way you said it, it read like you were accepting the comment,, I'm just razing you, I knew what you meant and yeah,, that wasn't a team I wanna lay claim to playing against the Steelers on Sunday,,, That wasn't MY Browns team. Not the one we were hoping to see at all.. But in and of itself, that might just be the point. We didn't play well, and I'm kinda wondering if, as many have said, we just weren't prepared well enough or if we just didn't play like we are capable of playing. Honestly, I don't know the answer. But we should be able to find out in the next several weeks don't you think. I mean if we come out on Sunday and lay another egg,,, that kinda says it.. Win or lose on Sunday, if we play tough, hard nosed Football. If we are competitive, then I think I gotta say,, OK,, perhaps we are starting to get it. Then the following week should tell the rest of the story.. Like I been saying,, 2 or 3 weeks from now, I'll either agree with those that say Romeo must go, or I won't. I'm just not ready to draw that conclusion yet..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Just clicking...
It pretty simple - If what we saw last Sunday defines our team for the season or even half of the season (although quite frankly I doubt we do the mid-season firing thing) then I agree RAC should be accountable and gone.
I still maintain Continuity is a must. Gratham and Chud must remain as well as our Special teams guy.
But quite frankly I think we played Horribly bad on Sunday but I don't think our team is Horribly bad under the leadership of RAC. It will be turned around and put back on track.
This Lord of Flies mentality...building the Bon Fire and prancing around chanting Kill Piggy, Kill RAC, Kill Piggy, Kill RAC are the actions of a bunch of immature kids without the proper Adult supervision.
Its one game folks...I don't think the one game vindicates those who have professed RAC sucks...although they are the ones prancing around that fire highest and yelling Kill Piggy, Kill RAC the loudest.
Of course they will profess - See RAC sucks.
I'm not buying yet...but I'll be there if this is a sustained outcome as the season progresses. I'll admit one thing and one thing only with RAC...he sucks at the red flag But that is no reason to fire him.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Then we need to see some results.
The reality is RAC has 2-3 more games. His future depends on how we do over the next few games.
If you listen to Savage on Wills and Snyder he basically says "get blown out one more time and Romeo's finished"
Seriously...check it out, the audio's on the homepage.
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If you listen to Savage on Wills and Snyder he basically says "get blown out one more time and Romeo's finished"
Seriously...check it out, the audio's on the homepage.
Was that from todays show?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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THAT isn't correct..Rac was Lerner's/Collins choice BEFORE the Superbowl.
I agree with your time line.
Savage didn't really hire RAC...it was pretty much a done deal before he came aboard.
With the way the league was 3 years ago...having few black coaches, RAC was almost the only real choice we had without creating a stir. It would have been hard to go any other direction....
JMO
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Then the following week should tell the rest of the story.. Like I been saying,, 2 or 3 weeks from now, I'll either agree with those that say Romeo must go, or I won't. I'm just not ready to draw that conclusion yet..
Believe me,the last thing I want to see is for the Browns to fail. No matter who the coach is.
But I saw a man lost out there. When we fell behind,not only did the team look lost,the head coach of that team didn't seem to be able to give them direction or inspiration either.
I don't begrudge you for your opinion. I can see just cause why some may wish to give him a few more weeks. I feel pretty much the same way. But everything from the coin flip forward has been nothing but a nightmare.
So I'm just not believing things will get much better. I have seen nothing that indicates that it will on the part of our head coach. And here's what I fear will be pulled and the fans will buy it...................................
They'll throw Brady in pretty much right away. Then everyone will use the old excuse,"Well,he has a rookie QB so we can't hold this year against him."
And we'll be in the same spot we're in now,next year. You see,I feel Brady is the future. But I haven't seen ANYTHING in RAC that leads me to believe he should be trusted or permited to be the one to develop Brady Quinn.
I don't want to see RAC ruiin Quinn and put our future in jepordy. That is my greatest fear at this juncture. The ONLY O player that I've seen "develop" under RAC has been KW2. And I'm not so sure that isn't more "God given talent" than coaching.
I'm not trying to change your mind. Just trying to add a little of my perspective and try to help you understand my "big picture" concerns in all of this.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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It's the 33rd game as our head coach Tab,not the first. Although it looks about the same.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Quote:
If you listen to Savage on Wills and Snyder he basically says "get blown out one more time and Romeo's finished"
Seriously...check it out, the audio's on the homepage.
Was that from todays show?
I think so, the audio's on clevelandbrowns.com too.
Also, listen to what Savage says about Frye and the O-line...VERY telling and what I've been saying the whole time about the game...but of course a certain coach keeps trying to make me out to be a buffoon.
EDIT: Of course, I'm pretty sure the words "Troy" and "Smith" are gonna come up in his next reply 
Last edited by Ammo; 09/13/07 11:09 AM.
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Well what was it you expected.. I mean they had to tear the team they inherited apart and begin to rebuild it stone by stone, step by step. I have to wonder how anyone can agree with my statement about the talent level not being there until now then question the record over that last several years.. that doesn't compute!
I am one of those people you are referring to. 
I said this in a different post... If Crennel had went 4-12 (0-6 in the division) in 2005 and 6-10 (1-5 in the division) in 2006 - I do not think there would be such a significant lack in confidence among fans.
The team took steps backward in 2006. The game #1 performance gave fans reason to believe there will be no PROGRESS in 2007.
The Browns don't have to win a Super Bowl to save RAC - but, he has to show PROGRESS.
There was virtually no starting NFL caliber talent on the 2000 team and Palmer won a couple of games. There was limited talent on the 2001 team when Butch lead them to 7-9. Crennel has a lot more to work with than eaither of those guys - and yet we are not seeing PROGRESS in the win/loss column.
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Its the first with this team...the team from game 33 and game 1 are two different teams.
Only AD and Roye on the defense were the same starters.
None on Offense were the same.
You coach players. This was his first game with this group of players.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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The thing is Eo...we have a roadmap...we have seen where we have been and where we are headed isn't looking good.
Hey...maybe we do a U-turn.
Let's hope so because this ride is nearing it's end with the guy driving at this point.
We need to string 2-3-4 wins together.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
Its the first with this team...the team from game 33 and game 1 are two different teams.
Only AD and Roye on the defense were the same starters.
None on Offense were the same.
You coach players. This was his first game with this group of players.
JMHO
Sorry man.....RAC doesn't get a clean slate every year.
It doesn't work that way.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I mentioned this earlier and I need to re-emphasize this...
Listening to Romeo's press conference Tuesday, he basically said "If we execute our gameplan as best as we can we may have a chance to win this game."
WHAT THE HELL???
What head coach IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would DARE place ANY sense of DOUBT in their team's heads??????????
We MAY have a chance to win if we give it our all? Christ...this is the NFL, if we give it our all we WILL win, or at the very least we SHOULD win.
Psychologically, you need to, NEED TO believe going in that you have no chance of losing. Even if it's not true. Here's an example of what my coach used to say to us during the week...
"Then men, after we win (not
"if we do win", we'll stick up 4 fingers symbolizing 4 straight wins over NDCL. On their field."
"Men, we do NOT lose to Chagrin. Ever. We're gonna pound them and kick them while they're down, etc."
It's not verbatim but you have the idea. You can't just say "IF we execute we MAY win." That's telling your players "No matter what you do, you just might not be good enough."
Last edited by Ammo; 09/13/07 11:34 AM.
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EDIT: Of course, I'm pretty sure the words "Troy" and "Smith" are gonna come up in his next replay
There,I fixed it for you.
I have a feeling that replay will go on for years. Or at least untill the video tape wears out. Some dwell on the past while some strive to move forward.
You'll have that from time to time.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Its the first with this team...the team from game 33 and game 1 are two different teams.
Only AD and Roye on the defense were the same starters.
None on Offense were the same.
You're right. This is THEIR players,THEIR team,the one THEY built to suit THEIR needs. Not the scrubs that they were dealt. But the results look remarkibly the same. That's the problem.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I saw your original comment.
I understand your point.....but understand Romeos comment too.
Bottom line is Romeo isn't a very good leader.
Last week we went into the half with a little something to work with...and came out flat as a pancake on defense and lost all hope at that point.
WHAT THE HELL DOES THIS BOOB DO AT HALFTIME??
It is the same crap with his teams year after year...we stink in the first half and stink more after the half.
Other teams adjust to what we are doing and we...well we....ahhh
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Ammo I listened to it on WTAM.com,, But I have to be honest, I didn't hear anything that said that if we lose like that again that RAC is gone.. It's just not there.. Nothing even remotely like that was said,, Quote:
Also, listen to what Savage says about Frye and the O-line...
He does lay a lot of the problems at charlies feet for sure.. and he stands up for the Oline very strong,,,,(caution, they are all still here, I wouldn't expect him to do otherwise)
He also goes out of his way NOT to lay ALL the blame on Charlie. the comment was there are 43 or 44 other guys that played in that game as well. Which was the point I was trying to make when everyone wanted either to blame Frye or RAC or the Oline or the RB or whoever.. plenty of blame to go around.
But in fairness, he laid alot of it on Charlie. Makes me wonder what Holmgren sees in Charlie?
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EDIT: Of course, I'm pretty sure the words "Troy" and "Smith" are gonna come up in his next reply
Sorry, I don't understand this,, I never ever wanted Troy Smith if that's what your saying.. NOT ONCE have you ever heard me say he'd be a good addition here...NEVER! so I'm once again, at a loss about your comment!
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Some of you guys are too funny!,
Having not been in the locker room nor a practice, we do not know what type of leader that RAC is. Just because he does not jump up and down, holler and scream does not make him a good or bad leader! I guess he forgot how to coach from the years in N.E to now? Nope!
Coaches can coach, but players execute! The coach and his staff have to put the team in the position to win, they cannot do the winning for them. And since some of you all want RAC gone, you might as well ad the rest of the staff because they do the actual teaching/implementing of the game plan. Everyone so calls loves Grantham - but why didn't the TV show him when HIS defense was getting slaughtered on that first drive of the second half?? And I will not even get into his TERRIBLE BLITZS calls during the game, leaving corners exposed..etc!
Or how about Opie, been here 3 years and we BARELY have NFL quality players. Think for a moment, name how many browns starters could go to the other teams in our division and either start or play second string??? Then answer - about maybe 3 or 4 players at best!
IF we want to fire RAC after only 3 years, fine, but Opie, Grantham, the QB coach - BTW - what does he do since we NEED Dorsey to teach??, and others need to clean their lockers out also!
Me - I would give them 5 years, after the 5th season, then make a decision!
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Sorry man.....RAC doesn't get a clean slate every year.
It doesn't work that way.
I agree, he should not get a totally clean slate... but by the same token I think it is a gross oversimplification to say, "We got blown out in our first game 3 years ago, we got blown out in our first game this year.... therefore we haven't improved at all."
yebat' Putin
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Dog... you know what is absolutely hilarious to me? Folks on this board are druelling at the thought of getting Cowher in here to coach... he's full of fire, he doesn't take any crap, he spits on people... He's not like RAC who is more positive, doesn't show the emotion, etc...
I've seen Big Ben now say twice that he and the rest of the team are REALLY enjoying playing for Tomlin becuase he doesn't scream, he doesn't get in their face, he even said on PTI last night... HE DOESN'T SPIT ON ME... Ben would not go so far as to say he likes playing for Tomlin better, but if you watched him talk and read between the lines, that's what he was saying...
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
Quote:
Quote:
Sorry man.....RAC doesn't get a clean slate every year.
It doesn't work that way.
I agree, he should not get a totally clean slate... but by the same token I think it is a gross oversimplification to say, "We got blown out in our first game 3 years ago, we got blown out in our first game this year.... therefore we haven't improved at all."
I don't disagree with that either....my attitude is a carry over from last year and last week did nothing to modify my position to lessen the concern.
Next week will simply intensify my position or soften it some...that is how it works.
It is a cumulative process.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,845
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,845 |
DC,
People forget that most coaches, Landry, Belicheck,Dungy,Nolls, Paul Brown, Bill Walsh, were not screamers!! SO what is the infatuation with a coach not being animated?? As a matter of fact, if you look at the NFL now, most coaches are not that animated!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
Quote:
DC,
People forget that most coaches, Landry, Belicheck,Dungy,Nolls, Paul Brown, Bill Walsh, were not screamers!! SO what is the infatuation with a coach not being animated?? As a matter of fact, if you look at the NFL now, most coaches are not that animated!
I have never really understood that either.
I don't care how he acts as long as his teams are prepared and we win ...and when we lose, we don't look like losers.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
DC,
People forget that most coaches, Landry, Belicheck,Dungy,Nolls, Paul Brown, Bill Walsh, were not screamers!! SO what is the infatuation with a coach not being animated?? As a matter of fact, if you look at the NFL now, most coaches are not that animated!
I'm not a fan of screamers. But there are two types...
Those who scream at their team and shout insults at their players, and those who scream to coach them up. There IS a difference. And the ones who coach them up, well, you'd run out in front of traffic for them. Those who shout insults...well, you want them to run out in front of traffic.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,720 |
Quote:
DC,
People forget that most coaches, Landry, Belicheck,Dungy,Nolls, Paul Brown, Bill Walsh, were not screamers!! SO what is the infatuation with a coach not being animated?? As a matter of fact, if you look at the NFL now, most coaches are not that animated!
Being animated or not has NOTHING to do with it. It's about being a leader,progressing and winning. That's what coaches get paid to do. You either earn your paycheck or you don't.
How you achieve postive results varies from one coach to another. The end result being,they achieve positive results.
Or the NFL stands for Not For Long
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,845
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Ammo, Quote:
. There IS a difference. And the ones who coach them up, well, you'd run out in front of traffic for them. Those who shout insults...well, you want them to run out in front of traffic.
I can agree with that but most head coaches have the assistants coach them up! Then the head guy consults with the assistants on the players!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Ammo,
Quote:
. There IS a difference. And the ones who coach them up, well, you'd run out in front of traffic for them. Those who shout insults...well, you want them to run out in front of traffic.
I can agree with that but most head coaches have the assistants coach them up! Then the head guy consults with the assistants on the players!
Yes but it all starts at the top. Would you rather have someone you'd do anything for lead you to battle, or would you rather have someone who you secretly hopes gets shot leading you to battle?
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