DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Why Romeo needs to go soon.

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His ONLY hope is if when Quinn gets his shot on the field and gives us some damn stability.

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I think lack of stability has played a huge part in all of this. There have been major changes in starters every year, very little consistency. If Quinn lives up to the hype, once he finally starts every week we will see the progress everyone has been looking for.

j/c

I remember these same conversations when old Butcher was starting to be disliked because I was one of the first to want him GONE. It was funny watching you guys see the light.

Is there anyone around that still thinks we should have kept him?

I think 4 years is the minimum for a coach---if he was even a serious candidate for HC to begin with.

I understand (J)Oakland getting rid of Art Shell after a year--cause that guy was never meant to be a longtime coach. He was just a body to keep the seat warm for someone else.

But hiring RAC, we felt he was a good hire---so he should get his due---and to me--thats 4-5 years. By then he can build the team he likes, establish a solid core of talent, and enjoy enough stability to really instill his system. To me---that takes place in 4-5 years.

Not defending Romeo here, but whats hurting the Browns to a point is the failure of Phil's 1st draft as GM...
Phil needed to hit a "homerun" with that draft in order to lay a foundation and be able to reap benefits by this year. So far he landed a total of ZERO impact players from that 1st draft...

Braylon Edwards....still hasn't developed into a elite WR
Brodney Pool....still looks like he's learning the position
Charlie Frye..drinking Starbucks now
Antonio Perkins...Arena League bound
David McMillian.....has done very little on the field,other than a great preseason of 2006
Nick Speegle.....who,what,where
Andrew Hoffman....looking for work
Jon Dunn..same as above

Not a single All-pro from that bunch.....and Braylon isn't even a Top 20 WR..
so far its looks like Phil has a knack for knowing defensive talent,but offensively,not so(pre 2007)
Travis Wilson hasn't done anything to warrant his draft selection.Jerome Harrison isn't impressing anybody.
Lawrence Vickers looks like he can be productive FB for years to come.
He hasn't added that force at DT thats essential for a 3-4 to flourish.
His 2006 Draft looks more promising..the Browns have a young LB core that is only going to get better in time.All they need that dominating NG ala Casey Hampton, Hatoli Ngata kind of player.
2007 is wait and see,obviously.....

Free agency wise,Phil has been very hit and miss....he overpaid for Kevin Shaffer....Joe Jurevious plays older than his age. He signed a pair of aging inept OG's who are out of the league now.
He has hit with Hank Fraley.....
all in all Phil Savage is more to blame than Romeo for this trainwreck.

That's a very astute, and sobering post

Our talent level IS leaps and bounds better than it was, but we ARE still deficient in many key areas.

The reality of Phil's 1st Draft is a bit like a sledgehammer now that Frye is gone and Pool looked so lost much of last week & in Preseason. Not good.... but I always gave a pass on that Draft anyway, but it is now just another in a long line of Draft failures for the Browns

With Braylon...WR's depend so much on a QB's play...just ask Randy Moss.

You are not a judge anymore Peen,,, come down off the bench and join the human race will ya

WOW, that' s an interesting view of things,, (you could have added in Peek and Stienbach to the good side for Savage)

Hmm,, Pit and Peen, what say yee about this view that Impact has brought up very very well?

Yeah in 2007,Phil Savage IMO has hit 2 HR's with Quinn and Thomas. Eric Wright has the CB spot locked down for years ....Eric Steinbach was a very very good signing.....he can pull and pass block with the best of them. And he can play OT in a pinch.
I left out LeCharles Bentley..but you can't predict injuries....Phil tried to lay a foundation for the o-line.
If I had to choose,I wouldn't fire Romeo Crennel especially in mid season.
I have a feeling though that him and Savage are not on the same page as far playing rookies vs vets....
This team is a year away from being a canidate for the playoffs.....

I'm not a big RAC fan, and I haven't been since about midway through last year.

I like Savage much more, but it's waning somewhat. Pool, Wilson, and Sowells are three guys that are must 'hits' for us, and after what I saw of Pool in the Steelers game and the fact that Wilson and Sowells weren't active, doesn't say much for Savage's ability to find talent deeper in the draft.

I'm not really expecting to get much out of guys in rounds 5-7, but unless you have an already good team, you can't miss on guys in rounds 1-4, IMO. If these three guys don't pan out, it's going to make it more difficult for us to get over the hump, IMO. We desparately need Pool to pull his weight in the secondary. We desparately need Wilson to not just be a #3 but develop into a #2, and we need Sowells to be pushing McKinney for playing time so that we have some quality depth on the OL - which will help us focus on other positions.

I just feel like Savage overthinks these picks and is trying to outsmart everyone. In the end, the only person he outsmarts is himself.

I still think he has done more good than bad, but the scales are evening out a bit.

j/c onya, Daman...

I love these lively debates, usually... but this one just plain hurts... because I love my Bowns, and my fellow Dawgs. To see us snarling at each other like this, means that the pack has problems- big problems.

I only stuck my toe in the waters once in this "Nile-long" thread to support CoachB, based on the general principle he laid out- because it made sense to me. Now, I gotta say some stuff.

The best thing about these debates is that NONE OF US actually know if we're right.... we only have our convictions and mindsets to make us believe we're right. It makes for long threads, for sure. It's also one of the worst things about threads like this... because Dawgs bloody each other, and not the fans of the opposition. Since none of us can see into the furture, we'll always have to rely on hindsight to prove our points... and hindsight don't prepare a Dawg for the future- it can only validate or disprove a point we made to each other months ago. The future still remains to be written.

That said, what's clear to me is this: many of the opinions that have been expressed here are based on long-standing personal biases (pro-Romeo and con)... and one- (count'em)- ONE game this year.

Some Dawgs have shorter fuses... and have stated that they've already seen enough to KNOW that RAC isn't the HC for us. Some Dawgs have offered numerous reasons to believe that we haven't seen the best of what RAC can do... both have points worthy of consideration.

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I'm on the side of giving RAC more time. Here's why:

In all the time that Romeo Crennel has been here, he's never had a team with a stable core base of players, until now... on offense OR defense. That means, he's never had a team which even had a chance at establishing it's own identity. Until you have that, you don't really know what your coach can (or cannot) do. A good coach can impose his personality and will upon a team, but he must first have a team to impose those attributes on it. What did Romeo inherit? What has he had to work with, until now?

Case in point: If Romeo was hired to coach a team like the Steelers ( or Colts or Patriots) this year- a team that was established, fairly stable, and had worked out all it's kinks before his arrival- would his weaknesses look as bad as they do with our team? Would his strengths be as obvious? I say "No" to both... because his detractors would say that he reaped the benefits of what came before him, and his supporters would say that he was what we needed to "get over the hump."

In short- all this chit is subjective... and subject to the circumstances that we find ourselves in at this time.

All details aside, it seems prudent to me that we should do like Tyler Derden said, and give this squad (and FO) a full measure of the so-called "5-year plan" to see if Savage/Crennel can get it done.

What's to lose by actually committing to a plan, and sticking to it? It's not like jerking knees every 1.5 years has gained us any success over the last 8 years...


.02

guess none of the assistants can win without a camera.

Happy Birthday...and good post.

Indeed...no one person is correct in all of their views.


Seeing as I started the thread, I may as well leave it at that. If a ref or someone else wants to extend this since it is nearing the lock down point, feel free. For me, it can end when the powers that be see fit.

Thanks for the stimulating conversation...and good or bad, right or wrong, we are all friends and I know we all agree on one point.

GO BROWNS!

Clem,, Happy birthday to you man,,,

I think most of us that nit pic at each other know the score. we know that it comes down to opinions and that the opinions we have are based, as you say, on our own bias. At least the people that want to be honest with themselves know that.

But thanks for pointing it out as well as you did..

As for your beliefs that it's not time to throw RAC out the door, I agree. (big surprise there huh ) And as it were, I agree for pretty much the same reasons. You just said it better than I did.. Thanks.

Let's settle all this right here and now. I'll take over the HC position at the bye week and have Diam as my QB coach, Attack as the OC, Vers as the DC, Damon as the GM (sorry GM), and trade our next 5 years' #1 picks for Troy Smith and have Ammo as his jock sniffer.

Ehhh..defense is my specialty...let me be the CB coach or have a part in the draft picks

I don't bend to the pull of the masses here..I'm not calling for Rac's head unless he loses the team..
One blowout at the start isn't enough..
It's dang dissappointing but I need to see the next several games to see how they respond..

The rest of the lynch mob can carry on...won't sawy me one bit.

Locked due to length.....