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Still can't let it go. I wonder if they bothered to ask how a roster looks when you let Sashi build it?

Speaking of not letting it go...

Yea, just let it go.

If I saw something about Sashi Brown’s roster construction being poor I would have posted that under a different thread. Alas, this is a thread about coaches. Having not the worst head coach of all time should help or won/loss record.

I thought this thread was about our current coaches?

I would argue that my post is about the current coaches.

I am not going to play your nonsensical game. Carry on.

GC. Of the Coaches, I'll be interested if we see any Offensive Line Formations where there is a varying distance in the gap between O linemen, shoulder apart from shoulder;
Most notably I'll be looking for a wider distance, if the Browns use that, and how often.

J/C

Posters have questions about the coaches. Those are legitimate. There is a new coaching staff, of course, there is speculation about what that means.

When judging them as with most things, it's not what they say, it's what they do that will answer the questions. OK, with those caveats out of the way I just saw a presser with Joe Whitt, the Browns' new passing game coordinator. He impressed me as no-nonsense, expectation setter. Then he said some things about Steve Wilks that I found encouraging. They still have to translate to results but they were encouraging.

U know bone ... i’ve never felt more confident about a staff for a few reasons ... first one being I’m a wait and see kinda dawg ... *L* .. only other hire i was ever excited about was Chud and that was cause Norv took a job as his OC after being his HC ... to me that showed great faith and respect in Chud ... not sure if its ever happened before but if it has it hasn’t occurred often ...

Here’s the reasons I am optimistic about this staff ...

- the talent they have to coach ...
- the way the staff was assembled starting with Freddie ... he had an 8 game interview after only the previous 8 games here to get noticed and impress KJ enough to get the 8 game audition AFTER grinding for 20 years and impressing EVERYONE along the way ....
- the players say Freddie is the same and he holds them accountable and is honest with them ... i believe it ... THATS HUGE ...
- the talent they have to coach ...
- last year as OC Freddie included everyone in the game plan and both Wilks and Monken mentioned that as part of the reasons they took the job ... as i’m sure u well know thats also HUGE ... the more involved folks are the more ownership they feel the more motivated there gonna be because they feel more invested in the outcome ...
- the talent they have to coach
- KJ has a ton of experience and knows what he wants ... he 100% knows what he has in Freddie ... he had 16 games of observing and 8 with Freddie in a group leadership role ... he got to see how Freddie handled himself and related to and handled the O ..
- the talent they have to work with ....
- we have a QB thats a leader and guys like VG and OBJ who will lead there rooms and set and example for the entire team by working hard every second ... they also like each other and want to work hard and improve for each other and we have a player leadership group thats going to facilitate that ... and something that’s overlooked ... these guys LOVE COMPETING and there all going to improve because of it ... once gain ... HUGE ....

Thats why i’m extremely optimistic about this staff .... the questions are legite ... i get it ... but these are all legite reasons for my extreme optimism with Freddie and his staff ...

I been saying it for awhile now ... and once again ....

This is DIFFERENT!!!!!

Don’t forget the talent ....

this post was fun to read.

So far, in reading up on the staff and watchin/listening to various clip, I am impressed. A totally different culture from what we had.

One of the things that has struck me is the sense of urgency being instilled at the ground level. Players are being yelled at for not running...off the field, to their next station, to whatever they need to do next BETWEEN the actual drills. They are expected to feel an urgency. I think this departs from the previous atmosphere where, as long as you gave effort during the drills, between drills you could relax.

I honestly think and thought and still do that fans for the most part can and do set unreasonable expectations on coaches in general they can only coach the players they have and if talent is missing they suffer.

There is in other words little difference between coaches unless your talking about BB and then he is so acutely aware of his talent and the talent of the teams he plays he finds advantages and exploits those advantages like no other coach EVER IMO.

So back to Diamonds post its about the talent, period and always has been. Now it does take time to blend talent "IF" the Browns suffer it will be early from there they will kick ass because they in most instances this season will have the better talent.

Well, I think you are fundamentally wrong when you say it's about the talent period.

I think of, how teams turned around over history when they changed coaches and a coach like schottenheimer had very similar results when he went to the Redskins and then on to the KC chiefs, after he left the Browns,

and or other examples, the Buddy Ryan family,
lot's of examples.

The more I think of it, just recently the last few days, I'm more and more convinced, if a team knows how to finish, ( Tom Coughlin is another example)

if a team knows how to finish, knows how to orchestrate a game on gameday,
that

it's about having players play roles, and together,

and I think familiarity, and continuity, along with the coaches putting a team together that knows how to play together and finish,
part of finishing is overcoming adversity, and overcoming some other poor teams ability to do what they do against you.

When you have that, I don't think the talent advantage that everyone wants to hope exists, makes much difference.

Sure there are some, that don't belong in the NFL and if you have glaring holes of competitveness, then you need talent.

And if you have a couple, maybe there are only 10-20 players in a the WHOLE LEAGUE that can be super man and change the game with their talent alone,

But the thing is, you don't need them, or all of them, what you need is a given strategy of "your game"

if you play "your game" you come out winnners today, and you can do it against even the best talent around.


And if you think this is a completely full of smell arugment then the Ravens and Steelers wouldn't have finished top 2 in the AFC north about 80% of the last 20 years,

So Talent matters, but it won't help if you don't have a plan to use it.
It won't help if you don't have a team that can finish, put another team away.

This isn't the NBA,

it's an 11 person orchestra, on offense, on defense, on special teams,

it's all got to work together.

They had better talent for 20 years, and a winning atmosphere created by the coaches to be sure but non the less they simply had better talent and thats why they won.

It sure would be fun to flip coaches and find out how a coach does with little talent and how a coach whom is viewed as a poor coach would do with better talent, wouldn't it?

In the end I think talent wins out, oh and that talent needs to fit what the coach likes to do. There is a bit of both but I think talent is the big big difference.

I truly believe we are about to find out 1st hand.

I don't think it's just talent.

Joe Gibbs' teams won 3 Super Bowls with 3 separate quarterbacks.

LeBron James' Cavs teams championships vs Golden State, he was the most talented guy on the court,

But Steve Kerr was on the other side, and Kerr won championships with Jordan as a player too.

The Lakers, and another team were most dominant when Phil Jackson was on their courtside.

This is Different!

The Vibe is different, the national media love, starting with OBJ is different, the expertise of Landry, and OBJ, and the experience of Hunt is different,

but in some ways there is a template that is the same,

some thing(s) the Browns have done almost every year I can think of since, way back to before Holmgren was riding golf carts.

The Head coach is first year, same.
The D Coordinator is new, same.

The brining in of a free agent WR to be one of the top 2 starters for the coming season, yet first time on the Browns is Same. (Kenny Britt, and (H.) Guy from the Dolphins, and Stalworth was.

The Brand new Db's to start at corner, (well that's about a yearly occurance.)

The re-vamping of the Defensive line, yeah, I'm sure this is a thing that happens almost every year.

Parting ways with a linebacker who was originaly obtained from another team through free agency or trade, but not drafted, A guy went to the Jets last year, Collins this time.

A big time RB pick up with a proven track record like Jamal Lewis, or Kareem Hunt.

I'm not saying it's not different, I'm just saying the pattern is the same

Hey! Maybe it's the only pattern, maybe it's just that way in the NFL,

but I still believe it's up to the COACHES to show these guys a Gameplan that will get them to win.

JMHO, talent wins NEARLY every time, the catch wasn't coaching, Red A seeing Bird practice ain't coaching, the fumble- Stabler ain't coaching, the Immaculate reception ain't coaching- Jerry Rice's work ethic isn't coaching.
Having typed that- the Coach- BB- he makes things happen like no other coach- he SCHOOLED Rams wonderboy in Super Bowl. He's different.
Go Browns!!!!

That's all well and good, but a Coach can't win, no matter how good he is if he doesn't have talent.

Now, Hue wasn't (IMO) using the talent he had available to him in a very good way. So that may have had more of an impact last season than any other before.

After what I saw Freddie and Baker do after Hue was cut, I'm more than happy with what we've got..

There is also something to be said for players that fit your system. Some players aren't actually the most talented but they fit well into a system a coach is trying to run. The ability to find those players that work well in that system is often key.

Let's face it, the salary cap limits the top named players a team can sign. So at some point finding those mid range type players to fill the voids becomes a key as well.

I agree. It was night and day once Williams was named head coach and Freddie was name O coordinator. It was like a lump of coal compressed in to a diamond.

Dorsey has made a lot of good moves, but the tie for first was dumping Hue and putting Freddie as O coordinator.

I take that back, it isn't a tie. Dumping Hue was a easy call. Any simpleton could have made that call. Installing Freddie as O coordinator was a bold move. Freddie and John had to have had some in depth conversations through camp and the first half of last season.

LOL..................can't let it go.

Neither can you.

Meanwhile in North Carolina......

Interesting quote.

As fans, we wouldn't truly know bc we're not there behind the scenes. All we can judge is the product on the field. And 1-31 aint really saying you're doing great coaching. However, I'll always give him a slight benefit of the doubt bc of the QBs he had (Kessler, Kizer, etc).

Hue's downfall is really just his personality. I think he's a good coach, but I believe he needs 100% his guys (other coaches) to be successful. Some people can't operate to their full potential if their worried about a lack of trust, and he falls in that category, as he's always trying to prove himself to others. That doesn't work for the long-term. You can't focus on the things you really need to focus on to be successful.

Hope this post doesn't turn this into a Hue thread, but just rambling based on the twitter post.

Good God. No wonder they call him Huebris.

Team didn't quit, these millionaires better not quit- guys making couple hundred thousand-quit, with their education background most better not quit- JMHO, they preform to best of their ability even if the coach knows nothing, because they could be working HARD for $20,000 or less.
Jackson and his "greatest turnaround ever"- it started when he LEFT......GO Browns!!!!
LOVE the attitude of whole organization now- done nothing, get to work, non-players working their butts off finding hungry players....new attitude....GO Browns!!!!

EX-Browns OL coach Bob Wylie rips Freddie Kitchens, saying QB coach Ken Zampese did all the coaching
Today 4:24 PM


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/08...e-coaching.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Former Browns offensive line coach Bob Wylie had some harsh words for the Browns organization in a radio interview Saturday.

For starters, he said he was surprised when Freddie Kitchens was hired as head coach considering quarterbacks coach Kenny Zampese was the mastermind behind the Browns’ explosive offense in the final eight weeks of the season.

“Baker (Mayfield) likes Freddie,’’ Wylie said on The Zach Gelb Show on CBS Sports Radio. “There’s a good relationship there even though (former Browns QB coach) Kenny Zampese did all the coaching there. Baker likes Freddie, so that had to (factor) into the decision.’’

Wylie, who was fired after the season along with the most of the assistants hired by Hue Jackson, charged that interim coach Gregg Williams didn’t get the head coaching job because Dorsey didn’t want him.

“My own personal feeling is Gregg was too strong a candidate for the seat,’’ Wylie said on The Zach Gelb Show on CBS Sports Radio. “I don’t think Dorsey wanted to go head-to-head with Williams like he had to do with Andy Reid in Kansas City, so he kind of filtered Gregg out of the picture.’’

Wylie, who left the Browns in late December because of a serious ankle and knee injury, said he heard about his firing from his daughter.

“My daughter called me and said, ‘Hey, dad, you just got fired today,’’ Wylie said. “That’s the first time I head about it.’’

The source speaks!

I never understood why people liked Wylie. I always thought the love child of a walrus and David Crosby was a weasel. Glad he is gone.

However, finding out from someone outside your organization when you are fired is pretty crappy. Reminds me of when Trent Richardson was traded.

I usually don't read any stories from ClevelandBrowns.com because they are fluff/propaganda but I clicked the link because this sounded interesting (and it was):

How the Browns’ quality control coaches help ‘run the show’ behind the scenes for the offense

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/how...medium=referral