DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Vice Grips...the multi purpose tool

I know there is a recurring debate whether VG is worth his contract. What I don't recall is who is on either side of that debate, I really don't care.

Once again, Jake Burns does an excellent job of showing another facet of the game. In this case, it's Jarvis' value as a blocker. He contributes both in run blocking and with down-field pass blocking. I'm as guilty as the next fan of usually watching the ball on offense so I don't notice the critical, detailed contributions of a single player down-by-down. VG is not just catching passes. He runs that nice little sweep play, throws a sweet pass and goes hard with his blocking. Yeah, he makes crazy catches too!

This article shows Jarvis putting in work. Dude is earning his cheddar. Bonus is he's setting the standard for all the other WRs.

Ref feel free to move this to another thread if that makes sense. I tried looking for a post where they were hashing out the VG contract but couldn't locate one.

There’s no debate bro ... there’s REALITY vs the ABSURD (the Sashiettes ...)

They defend the man who brought us Kenny Britt and think VG’s overpaid ... thats pretty much all the math u need to do on that one .. *L* ...

I do it to break their chops .. its absurd to think he’s overpaid ... how do u have a debate other than how absurd their stance is ..

I really love Jake ... can’t wait to watch ... man .. and VG is the 2nd best WR in the room ... and he could end up 3rd by the end of the season .... HOW LUCKY ARE WE ...

LETS GOOOOOooooooooooo

*LOL* at the 3rd clip i think it was .. we best not have him blocking DE’s anymore ... he got in his way as opposed to blocked him ... *L* ...

And this is why i LOVE the dude ... he gets EVERY OUNCE out of his ability ...

FINAL THOUGHTS

With Landry, everything is about effort. His lack of athleticism in the speed department means Landry has to maximize every skill possible to win at wide receiver.

Blocking is just one of those traits needed for Landry to find value and it's clear he prides himself in the ability to help his offense.

Everything about Landry's NFL career has been built on the idea of toughness and effort. Perpetually doubted and criticized, he was the type of player the Browns receiver room needed for 2018, and now with Odell Beckham Jr.'s arrival, he is the co-star his game is best suited for.

Expect Freddie Kitchens and Todd Monken to use Landry in a much different role than last year in the passing attack, but there is no doubt his heavy role in the rushing attack will remain the same.

Thanks for the article.

I really like Jarvis Landry. He is a very good route runner, has excellent hands, good moves after the catch, very good blocker, tough as nails, and a team leader.

He is invaluable. You can win w/guys like that. He was the number one guy I wanted last year, but never thought we could land him in FA. Then, Dorsey pulls yet another miracle and trades for him. We are fortunate to have such a quality player and guy on this team.

I just don't see a reason for debate,, just look at his production and how he handles things off the field as well..

No question, he's worth every dime of his contract.

I am glad he is on the team. What's not to like?

Some complain he makes too much money and isn't a downfield threat. Those claims might have merit, they might not...I don't really care. I like possession receivers who move chains if that is indeed what he is....great!

As for money, it isn't my money, so I don't sweat it. I just enjoy it.

For years we have been saving money. That was the plan, to build for the future. Well, the future is upon us so we started spending. I think Haslam and Depo knew the plan, be it with John at the helm or if we retained Sashi, we were going to start spending last season. The break down was over and the building process began.

The entire front office needs a tip of the cap. It wasn't a easy process, but now most people have that warm and fuzzy feeling.

At some point we will have to make some decisions regarding the cap. All teams do who have higher paid players. Just the nature of the beast.

Anybody know who our capologist might be?

They would be wrong on both counts.

51 yard TD strike between two defenders

I hardly can think of a more multi purpose player then Duke Johnson, at least on offense, he will do just about any role.

ON Wr's blocking, I really liked what Terrelle Pryor had to offer, and don't remember too many other examples.

That right there ... u can WIN with guys like him ... some may not understand the depth of what that means ...

i been saying he’s a PLAYMAKER but not a true #1 cause he lacks the speed of an AB or OBJ ... but he is a PLAYMAKER and u just hit the nail on the head even more succinctly ..

TABBER

at the “if we could only get the te’s to block now” line ... i LMAO at that one ..

Agree with all the kudos for Landry.

The last time I felt as confident in a "move-the chains", sure-handed WR was Jurevicius. Landry brings even more to the table obviously.

This is almost a direct quote of Andrew Hawkins describing himself during his playing days.

Put in the work. Maximize what you have. Don't kill yourself trying to be what you're not. MAKE a place for yourself on your team.

Jarvis Landry has this ethic down pat.
What a team asset.

let's focus, I want to focus on two lines you said, because it really sums up what I feel about some of the, Threads like " What are the remaining concerns" thread,

and why I feel like the Ravens could have/or are doing more with less talent, and even when I gave a response in the 3 keys to the season thread,

How can the Browns reconcile the truths' you stated in your opening line and the laughing icon line.

When you post.



and the 2nd line of


So, point is, (so much trouble with the smileys forgot my point)

oh, If the Browns get the NFL leagues best tight ends they'll be even better than they are now.
TE's by definition are more designed in purpose to be doing the blocking you are talking about the WR's doing,
They are on average bigger bodies, and blocking is much closer to a TE's primary role than a WR's

Kinda like the minor angst that we all had when we hear the D-coord. say the key is the tackling of the DB's ,
The two lines from your post above would be like hearing

something along the lines of , We can get the D off the field because the DB's stop the run game, ... Now if only we could get our Defensive line to stop the run,
or primarily, the Nose tackles, and interior defensive linemen.

Altogether, I think (I dunno, often ask myself, did the Browns pass on Kelce in the draft or did he go before they had a shot, I remember pre-that draft, how all I saw on Kelce was a guy who doesn't come along every year,...)

Kay, so many tangents, ... When the Browns, if you want to talk about run blocking, I always/often get the sense,
that even since way back, years since 1999,

The Browns have a chance to get Overbearing, Manhandling, People Movers, vs.
the chance to get light footed, Underweight, finesse, quick moving guys;

And I hope they seek out the former, and feels like they seek out the latter.

Finish:
If the Current Browns got even Better TE's they'd be even more Aces in the hard to beat category.

The thing that's much harder to find is what I call, "a complete TE".

Most TE's fall into one of two major categories. The first being a dominate offensive weapon. The Tony Gonzales type. Then there are great blocking TE's.

It's hard to find that total package at the position. They do exist but they're rare.

Landry is worth the price. There are things he doesn't do well... But everyone has faluts. But what he doesnt do be makes up everywhere else.

He was brought in to be a leader as well as a solid reliable pass catcher. He was brought in and paid as much as he is because of his work ethic. And he's worth it

I don't think any poster on here would argue that a Rob Gronkowski type of TE would be an asset to this team. That doesn't take away from anything the Jarvis or other WRs do with their blocking. Complete TEs who are equally adept at blocking and pass-catching are a rarity. Until one comes along that the Browns have an opportunity to acquire we should utilize the talent on the roster. Fitting the scheme to the talents of our players has been a common theme on this board. That's what they are doing by exploiting the WR blocking.

In the meantime, we brought in Demetrius Harris to shore up the in-line TE position who is projected to be a pass-catching upgrade over Fells. In one of the Burns clips in the Jarvis article, we also saw Njoku doing a decent job blocking a DE. So he can do it and he's been put on notice that he's expected to improve this season. He doesn't need to pancake defenders but if he keeps them out of plays that's enough.

So until a John Mackey type of player shows up we can still execute a competitive offense by using the talent that we have.

Glad he's a Brown. His attitude and mentality was invaluable last season. Not only that, but he can back up his talk on the field and make significant contributions to our offense.

What are VG’s “faults’ as far as being an nfl receiver ... honestly curious ...

Your not a sashiettes so its an honest question ... just curious as to what u see as VG’s weaknesses ...

Ty sir ..

It's because of offensive scheme. Kids are recruited to some college. In most cases it is because the college coach is thrilled with the blocking ability, or the catching ability.

But no, there aren't many Iron Mikes out there who could beat the crap out of anybody at everything. That is why there aren't all that many TE's in the HOF, and none of them are in there because they could block and not add points to the board.

The only blockers who get in are O linemen. So if you are 245 lbs and asked to block, to be considered a great, you best be able to catch..be it a TE or FB.

Ozzie isn't a HOF player for his blocking ability. Nor is Mike Ditka, though Ditka was a better blocker, but that is going throwback, even compared to the OZ.

His only weakness to me is his speed.

I don't think he has any real weaknesses, but his speed and size are not positives.

I'd consider them net neutrals. They don't do him any favors, but they don't detract from his overall effectiveness, either. He gets open despite the speed issue because he runs great routs. He's also 'field smart' and can improvise when needed to good results.

Love having this dude on the team.

Perpetually?

You gots a Dictionary for your Birthday, huh? Lmao.

IDk, I think I would consider it a weakness. Because if he had one of those two things on top of what he already has, he would be considered a top 3 WR in the league IMO and we wouldn't even ben having this discussion. Give him size, and same thing.

I like Jarvis, and I am glad we have him on this team, but speed is probably the reason Odell is on a different level than him.

j/c:

2018 Numbers

DYAR(Defense-Adjusted Yards Above Replacement. This gives the value of the performance on plays where this WR caught the ball, compared to replacement level, adjusted for situationand opponent and then translated into yardage)

Top Ten WRs in this category (out of 84 WRs ranked that caught at least 50 passes):

1. Tyler Lockett
2. DeAndre Hopkins
3. Michael Thomas
4. Mike Evans
5. Tyreek Hill
6. Julio Jones
7. T.Y. Hilton
8. Adam Theilen
9. Keenan Allen
10. Brandon Cooks
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
83. Jarvis Landry
84. Golden Tate

-----------------------
YAR- which isn't adjusted based on opponent

1. Michael Thomas
2. Tyler Lockett
3. DeAndre Hopkins
4. Julio Jones
5. Mike Evans
6. T.Y. Hilton
7. Tyreek Hill
8. Adam Theilen
9. Brandin Cooks
10. Tyler Boyd
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
83. Jarvis Landry
84. Jevon Kearse

-----------------------------

DVOA (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. This number represents value, per play, over an average WR in the same game situations. The more positive the DVOA rating, the better the player's performance.

1. Tyler Lockett
2. Mike Williams
3. Mike Evans
4. Tyler Boyd
5. Sammy Watkins
6. Tyreek Hill
7. Cooper Kupp
8. T.Y.Hilton
9. Michael Thomas
10. DeAndre Hopkins
11. Rashad Higgins
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
79. Jarvis Landry
84. John Ross

----------------------------------
Total Yards

1. Julio Jones
2. DeAndre Hopkins
3. Mike Evans
4. Tyreek Hill
5. JuJu Smith0Schuster
6. Michael Thomas
7. Devante Adams
8. Adam Theilen
9. Antonio Brown
10. T.Y.Hilton
.
.
.
.
19. Jarvis Landry

Catch Rate:

1. Michael Thomas (85%)
2. Tyler Lockett (81%)
3. Danny Amendola (75%)
4. Cole Beasely (75%)
5. Chester Rodgers (74%)
6. Rashad Higgins (74%)
7. Adam Theilan (74%)
8. Jarius Wright (73%)
9. Cooper Kupp (73%)
10. Sammy Watkins (73%)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
71. Jarvis Landry (54%)
84. John Ross (36%)

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr


Top 10 WR Contracts with Guaranteed Money:

1. Odell Beckham
2. Mike Evans
3. DeAndre Hopkins
4. Julio Jones
5. Jarvis Landry
6. Antonio Brown
7. Sammy Watkins
8. A.J. Green
9. Corey Davis
10. Davante Adams


#Overpaid
#ButHesAGoodBlocker

Speeds what separates him from being a true #1 ... its all he lacks ... he’s still a top 10 - 15 WR in the league ... how many true #1’s are there ... here’s my list w/o much thought ...

Hop ... AB ... OBJ ... Julio ... AJ ... Evans ...

Thats all the true #1’s IMO ... thats only 6 true #1’s in the game IMO as of now ...

Some will include guys like D. Adams, K. Allen and M Thomas .. IMO Allen is a slight cut above VG cause of speed .... Adams/Thomas cause of height (if VG was faster he’s be a true #1 ... if he was taller IMO it would not make him a true #1 .. it would make him as good as Adams and Thomas ..) ...

U can throw Thielan in that group cause of his speed IMO ....

After that ... VG is at the top of the next group IMO ...

I really like what Vers said ... u can win with guys like him ... ...

Height makes him better and puts him in my grouping of Adams/Allen ... speed moves him up to the elite true #1 status ...

I don't disagree, I was actually giving him credit. With speed or size, hes one of the BEST in the league. Hes still very very good without it.

Sooo... According to your "dungeons and dragons" stats, Jarvis is basically one of the worst receivers in the NFL, right?

If that is what you took out of it, I'm sorry for you. Now pardon me, I need to get back to my game of Dungeons and Dragons. It's my turn to wear the Gandalf costume.

"You Shall Not Pass!"

Haha. I'm just saying bro, those stats indicate he's one of the worst receivers in the NFL. I have a certain respect for advanced stats, but some of them simply don't paint an accurate picture. To put it in a context all Browns fans can understand, according to those: Tyler Lockett = Paul Warfield / Jarvis Landry = Gregg Little

Am I wrong?

I don't think they do. In general, they state IMO that he is rather inefficient to other WRs who get significant targets and receptions. Essentially other WRs do more with what they're given.

To be fair to Landry, his catch rate was significantly better in other years than last season.

He doesn't fair very well in the other categories as well although 2017 and 2016 were "better" I don't think he was in the top 25 in the first two & 2015 was similar to 2018.

I think this is some posters this is value is overrated here and I believe it is a more than fair stance. Great, he got a ton of targets with Miami and here in 2018...you give other WRs in the NFL the same amount, they produce more. I think that's the general gist of it for me.

Landry is a slot WR. Hopefully he plays almost exclusive inside in 2019. That may be the best for him. But in the end, we're paying #1 WR money for a slot WR (repetitive, I know).

Just a slot receiver.

bEcaUzE fOuR mInUtE hIgHlItE vIdEoZ gIvE uS tHe BeSt iNfOrMaTiOn.

I can do this too.

Jarvis Landry ll "Best Slot Receiver In The League" ll Official Highlights

Don’t bother ... dude only understands stats ... thats very sad and it’s a complete and utter waste of time ..

Its like every WR in the nfl plays in the same system with the same qb’s and against the same D’s every year .. playing with D, Brees in that O with Kamara and Ingram around is pretty much the same as playing in an O with Tanneyhill and and nothing else on O ... last year VG was blessed with TT and then a rookie who he took practically zero reps with in a dysfunctional butt O for 1/2 the season and then with an OC who had to work with the existing O ..

I’d call that pretty much even .. not quite an apples to oranges comparison ... ..

Folks that don’t understand the game of football rely on STATS ... and we all know who there for ...

FYI ..... If he didn’t provide links .. u best go check the facts .. he LIED through his teeth a few weeks ago and got caught red handed ... first clue was he provided no links in that post ... so u best check them and make sure he didn’t do the same thing .. i think he provided links this time so there prolly good stats ...

For all u menZas that have reading comprehension problems .. i did not say stats were use less .. they have their place .. but when its what u rely on and u judge players solely off the stats ... u simply don’t understand the game ..

Larry Fitzgerald is “just” a slot receiver also ..

He’s never been overpaid ...

looks to me like you found a bunch of "stats" that don't matter. most of that list is made up of average players.


in 2016, Cole beasley was the 5th best wr in the NFL with 800 ish yards? Terrance Williams was ranked #17 with 594 yards.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr2017

Meanwhile, Odell who had 1367 yards was ranked # 29

these stats are hot garbage.

You are referring to the time when I provided the various rankings of where Landry's contract fell in relation to other players. There were five different categories that I listed IIRC. ONE of the categories'rakings was incorrectly, and accidently, listed and was changed once it was brought up.

"Lied through his teeth"

Good one.

Right.