DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus ICE deportation raids set to begin Sunday after Trump delay, report says

Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents are preparing to conduct raids beginning Sunday to arrest thousands of illegal immigrants across the U.S. just weeks after President Trump announced that he was delaying the operation.

The ICE agents will target at least 2,000 immigrants whose deportations have already been ordered, a New York Times report said, citing one former and two current Department of Homeland Security officials.

Asked for comment, an ICE spokesman would not offer specific details, citing "law-enforcement sensitivities and the safety and security of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement personnel."

"As always, ICE prioritizes the arrest and removal of unlawfully present aliens who pose a threat to national security, public safety and border security. ... However, all of those in violation of the immigration laws may be subject to immigration arrest, detention and – if found removable by final order – removal from the United States," the spokesman said.

Ken Cuccinelli, acting director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, told reporters Wednesday that the raids are “going to happen.” He did not elaborate.

The Times report said the raids will include "collateral" deportations, which means illegal immigrants at the scene of the raid who are not the target of the raid could be detained.

The June operation was expected to target 2,000 families in as many as 10 cities, including Chicago, Baltimore, New York, Houston, Los Angeles and Miami. Last month, President Trump announced on Twitter that he wants ICE agents to start the process of “removing the millions of illegal aliens who have illicitly found their way into the U.S.”

But Trump later delayed the sweeps, saying he would give lawmakers two weeks to work out solutions for securing the U.S.-Mexico border. The decision came after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi contacted Trump, requesting that he call off the raids.

But three administration officials told the Associated Press that scrapping the operation was not just about politics.

They said ICE leaders had expressed serious concerns that officers’ safety would be in jeopardy because too many details about the raids had been made public.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ice-deportation-raids-to-start-sunday-report

Now I feel I've made it pretty clear that I believe it's wrong to treat people following the legal process of asylum like criminals by locking them up and separating their families. I believe in order to treat people in that way they have to have a warrant or have committed a crime. Applying for asylum is a 100% legal process.

But if, as according to what we're being told, ICE is targeting those who have exhausted all legal remedies to stay here and have been issued an order of deportation, do you object to them being found and deported?

I do not. I believe in the rule of law as it pertains in both directions. I no less support those who have been issued an order of deportation being sought out and deported as I do how wrong it is to separate the families of those legally applying for asylum.

Now this could evolve into something more than what we're being told. This could go sideways into including others and ICE may go further than what we're being told. If that happens I'll address that at that time.

But as stated, I support deporting those who have exhausted the legal process and have been found in need of being deported.

Haven't we seen the same headline ... dozens of times now?

While I sympathize with the asylum seekers - I don't actually have a ton of sympathy for people here illegally. I have no issue with the various agencies pursuing the law and catching and processing them.

Protesters Remove U.S. Flag, Replace It With Mexican Flag Outside ICE Facility In Aurora

July 12, 2019 at 8:48 pm


Filed Under:Aurora News, ICE Raids


AURORA, Colo. (CBS4)– Hundreds of protesters gathered in Aurora on Friday evening to march to the ICE detention facility where illegal and undocumented immigrants are being housed. They also removed the U.S. flag, replaced it with a Mexican flag, and spray painted graffiti on the American flag before they replaced it flying upside down.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2019/07/12/protests-ice-aurora-immigration-raids/

The only acceptable reason to lock non violent people up.

Can anyone explain to me why people who are in the country illegally shouldn't be identified and deported/processed?

While I have sympathy for genuine asylum seekers - I find it really odd that anyone would protest "illegals" being deported.... I've never understood. Having lived in AZ - I understand that the way in which ICE (or Sheriff Joe) go about trying to identify illegals IS of major concern because all too often they trample all over the rights of as many legal citizens (or more), in order to get to the illegals.

J\C The Dems just made it official that they are for open borders when Nancy PELOSI the leader of the party went on National media to explain to the illegals how to avoid ,and evade the ICE officials on the round up ….anything for the votes I guess.
IMHO

Yeah Pelosi is the devil and demon in all this. Drama much?

Anyways I wonder when they’ll be rounding up all the dreamers. Can’t be long.

Regarding the asylum seekers ...

What do you think started this mass of people all of a sudden all at once deciding it was the right time to leave their countries and seek asylum else where from what appears to be all of Central and South America?

What happened in all those countries to make now the time to seek asylum for all those people?

I’m genuinely curious as to what u think the impetus of their actions is cause we’ve never seen anything close to these numbers at the border ...

I don’t agree with u what so ever on much but i respect the fact i think u believe what u post and don’t just troll like OCD/Perfect ... i also think your pretty intelligent so I am curious as to your thoughts on that ...

Hopefully you’ll hold to form and give me a legite response ...

Ty sir ..

Cracks me up that people think they'll stop at just the illegals. POC, the poor, the sick, non-christians, LGBTQ, and those with different ideologies are all eventually on the list of the 'others'. That's the problem with fear based politics, there always has to be a boogie man or it doesn't work.

And here I thought you and I turned the corner. Here's a hint, I only troll those who deserve it.

Answering your question, the biggest reason they come here is fear of the cartels. Cartels are pressing young children into service with death threats in these countries. But other socioeconomic and political strife plays a role as well. Imagine how desperate you have to be to trek thousands of dangerous miles risking everything just hoping we let you in and give you a chance...

These people are leaving everything they ever knew behind to take that chance and we are treating them like vermin.

Every group that has ever migrated here en masse has brought a criminal element with them. But it's impossible that all of these people are criminals... As a matter of fact, I'd bet that the majority are hard working Christians of the old school Catholic variety.

So your saying that over the last lets say maybe a year or so ago the cartels have increased their pressure on others to join and that coupled with their economic/political climate is the reason for the major increase in asylum seekers? ...

Just want to make sure i understand before i ask a for more questions .... i really would like to try and understand your thought process ... not looking for a fight ...

I want to focus on just this aspect ... there’s so many rabbit holes to go down with this one .. way to much to talk about “everything” ...

I said more than once but it went unheard in here that the illegals are doing what there suppose to be and i did not blame them one little bit ... there trying to improve their and their families lives ... thats what an adult parent is suppose to do ...

Ty sir ...

Don't think shes the devil or anyone that has empathy for the illegals as I DO Im just not for open borders and obviously you are and the Dem party is I just disagree with that ... cant we just agree to disagree without animosity

I don't think that there is a single answer, but many that contribute to it. I certainly don't feel I know all of the answers, but this isn't a single issue driving them here. So I'll try to touch on at least some of the issues.

Now I won't try to infuse climate change into this debate. But there is no denying that their food sources are a contributing factor. Both droughts and heavy rains have destroyed much of their crops.

Central American farmers suffer major crop losses, need food aid: U.N.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-centr...n-idUSKCN1S9037

And yes, the cartels are becoming more and more aggressive over time....

https://www.unicefusa.org/stories/why-migrants-flee-central-america/34545

Then we can look at how the U.S. has cut off aid to these nations that those who live there know will only make things worse as time goes on.....

Trump cuts aid to Central American countries as migrant crisis deepens

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-i...s-idUSKCN1RC013

So all of those are driving factors.

Now for just a minute, put yourself in a position of living there and looking at all of this. Food is becoming in short supply and prices are rising making it harder for you to feed your family. As time has gone on, the drug cartels are getting stronger and applying more pressure and violence towards the children, including your own family. The U.S. has cut the aid to your country which can only add to making the situation worse.

That would be enough to compel anyone to wish to search for a way out and a better life for their family.

Now let's look at what the leader of America is saying he will do.

He says he's going to shut down the border. He's going to build a wall that will stop anyone from entering the U.S.

So your choices are to sit by and hope things get better when all indications are getting worse. Or make a run to the U.S. border before they build a wall and it's too late.

Words have meaning and often the words you say have a great impact.

U want to make this about trump and his word yet ignore words from others at the same time ... but were suppose to believe your not biased ... ...

Don’t wanna go there ... u wanna acknowledge words then u need to acknowledge all the words not just the ones from trump or the ones u agree with ...

Not engaging as i believe this will lead to a peeing match and not a discussion ... i’m done with that in here ...

I am curious as to why global warming has affected them way more than us ... i get we have better “equipment” but what exactly is it we have done to combat the affects of global warming better than their farmers? ....

Also if there seeking asylum ... why they worried about the wall ... u sure u understand how this works according to our laws ... not being a jerk ... the laws are messed up ... thats another discussion ... for now ... i just wanna figure out why everyone thinks there’s this sudden surge ...

I can't speak for anyone, but the biggest reason I have that tells me to temper deporting illegals, is the fact that we are a jus soli nation. We can have someone here illegally, but have a child who is a US citizen. If we tried to deport everyone here illegally, we'd have a whole lot of orphans to deal with, who may have living parents but are unable to visit the children. We would then have to subsidize that child's care with our taxpayer dollars, which doesn't sound useful to me.

I'm not making this "about Trump", but it seems you believe that his words have no meaning or impact on things. They most certainly do. It's just a part of the picture but not the entire one.

And as I said, I'm not saying that global warming is the reason this is happening, just that it is happening. It's also happened here.

Farming: Weather is Leading Cause of U.S. Crop Loss – How Do You Assess the Risk?

https://agfax.com/2019/01/25/farming-wea...ssess-the-risk/

‘Everybody’s so down in the dumps’: Illinois farmers give up on planting after floods — and throw a party

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/16/midwest-...hrow-party.html

I gave you four reasons, not one. But yes, in this regard Trump also threatened to shut down the entire border, not "just build a wall".

Trump threatens to shut Mexico border - ‘not kidding around'

https://www.apnews.com/7ff47e107a4c432fa323ed6d55fa3f39

Once again, I'm not trying to make this all about Trump. It's not worth the divide in this discussion. But it is true that the world has no idea what he will do from one minute to the next.

Now that can be seen as a good thing or a bad thing. Being unpredictable keeps people on their toes. Some consider that a good position going into negotiations. I won't debate that point either way.

But it also causes people react to your words. I hope you don't see that as me attacking or blaming Trump for anything. I'm just pointing out that when he speaks, people react to what he says. People take notice and it can greatly impact their decisions.

I hope that's being civil enough for you.

I'm not sure you understand farming?


Weather has ALWAYS been the leading factor in farming. Since forever.

When there is a drought somewhere, we're told it's because of man made climate change/man made global warming, etc.

When there's too much rain, we're told the same thing.


Hurricane? We're told the same thing. Tornados? Ditto.

Hey, here's a lesson on life: Things change. Deal with it.

Once again the topic flew right over your head. I plainly stated that I'm not saying it's because of climate change. Did you even bother to read the thread?





But you just go ahead and try to derail what has started to become an actual discussion that's once again, not about anything you brought up.

I was for it, before I was against it.

Okay John Kerry.


Dude, you literally said people are illegally coming to the u.s. due to food shortages. And violence, etc........and in other threads you say you are against illegals and want a wall or some other device to prevent illegals, yet now you say the illegals should be okay because they are fleeing poverty or violence.

You try to go 3 different ways.

I actually listed four different contributing factors in this very thread. Try to keep up will ya?

I’ll be back ...

I'm not smart enough or well read enough or familiar enough with world events to know why so many people around the world are seeking asylum. . . . apparently there is a ton of people worldwide 'displaced' and or seeking asylum.

https://www.unhcr.org/en-us/figures-at-a-glance.html

Regarding the USA specifically - I don't think it has anything to do with Trump. I think it has to do with the USA - as it has been for 200 years - being the land of the free and the land of opportunity. It seems natural that people suffering in other countries would aspire to live someplace better. It doesn't mean we should accept all of them. I don't believe anyone (or exceedingly few) are advocating open borders. I know I am not.

Another site I just found that is interesting with info on the number of accepted asylum seekers:

https://www.unhcr.org/en-us/figures-at-a-glance.html

I expect the USA could do a lot more than it is currently doing. Looking at our history as Gage alluded to - we're a nation born of immigration and foreign influence. Why should is suddenly stop now? Why suddenly throttle back what has always been a life blood of industry, creativity and entrepreneurship?

I'm more than happy to deport illegals. Getting across the border legally or illegally shouldn't mean you get a free pass to stay. I'll think more on the issue of illegals with kids and respond to that difficult issue ... but again, get here, pop a kid and you get to stay? It sends the wrong message but how to handle it? I don't know.

Thanks for the reply ... not much else to say about the questions i asked ... appreciate your honesty in that regard ...

Thanks again ...

Basically yes. Like Pit said there are many factors and each migrant has his own experiences. But conditions in their own countries are so bad that they flee, that's the real bottom line, they flee. They risk it all to come here, they leave everything and everyone they know behind, and most of them do it out of pure desperation. Think about how bad things would have to be for you to do that.

As for Trump's role, I have no idea how much anything he has done has caused an increase in migration but I can't rule out that it may or may not play some factor in the increase.

What I don't think is that these people are just looking for handouts or trying to come here to live on our dime. Some, maybe most might 'need' a hand up to get on their feet but most want to work to 'earn' a better life. Others that have nefarious intentions might use our asylum system to try to get in and operate in the states, but far from the majority and I'd bet that fraction is very small.

So in the broad sense of what I think triggers these desperate people to make the trek here is socioeconomic and political strife. To a much lesser degree, some may also be coming here due to religious and LGBTQ indentity persecution. Others might be coming just for a shot at the American Dream if there is little or no opportunity for them to have a quality life where they are from. And of course some are coming for a fresh start, trying to leave a past or something from their past behind... IMHO though, the majority are fleeing for socioeconomic and political strife.

There’s the condescending crap i’m not looking for just like u did in your first post ... save your snarky BS for when i deserve it ... this ain’t it ... u ASSume a lot of things about me when it comes to our president ... u wanna have a discussion i’m game .. u wanna put words in my mouth based off your pre-conceived opinion of me or insult me by talking to me like a 3 year old like u did in part of your first response and i’m out ... i know u don’t care cause thats who u are, i’m just telling u so your clear about keeping me in this convo ...

So your saying the 3 biggest contributing factors to current surge in asylum seekers are

- food shortages based on heavy rains and droughts ...
- cartel putting pressure on people to join their gang ...
- trump cutting off aid after the crisis started ...

Is that a good summary or am i missing something ...

I agree with everything u just said ... but it didn’t address the current surge ... its incredible whats going on right now ... something(s) occurred to create the current surge ... everything u said is true but its always been like that ... something(s) has changed ...

We don’t agree on things dude but i’m not a moron .... i’ll never be able to understand what they went through starting with what happened to start the thought process and for it to get so dire they left everything behind for a shot at a better life ... but i can comprehend it .... u don’t have to keep explaining to me the sacrifices these folks made for what most in this country take for granted .... like i said in my first post ... there doing the right thing coming here, i don’t blame them at all ...

Do u think any or all of the following played a part in the current surge ...

Do u think Cali becoming a sanctuary state and passing legislation that gives illegals free health care? ...

Do u think the fact illegals can get drivers licensees in multiple states including Cali and NY has anything to do with it? ...

Do u think the fact that when we changed the law to allow different rules for people crossing legally seeking asylum or illegally intending to get caught so they can claim asylum or trying to just sneak in ... coupled with the fact folks coming in either way coming with kids has risen over 50% ... it went from low single digits to in the 60’s i believe .. i know its huge not positive on how huge ... u think that played a role? ...

I really can't say truthfully that it didn't play a role because I doubt there is anyway to prove it. But I can do a little bit of logical deduction, so I'll take a shot:

First I doubt sanctuary cities, drivers licenses, or medical cards play a significant role because most who come don't even speak the language, so how are they getting all these facts? And even if they know about the general facts, how would they know how these things apply to them? And if it played a big role, why are so many illegals working in all these RED states? Why are they in Ohio (the armpit of the US for jobs/pay)? Why are they in the Carolinas? Or in states across the south?

I know these are hot button topics in our partisan politics, but other than a general understanding that the US might help them if they flee here, they probably don't know what to expect. And Trump's admin has been treating them terribly at the border for two years now, but the immigration numbers keep increasing! Do you think that if they had the knowledge that their kids would be 'seperated, possibly permanently' that the numbers would be increasing? Logic tells us that they know little about what is going on here and more about the general knowledge that America will help them.

So, I know my hypothesis does not answer all of your questions. Nor does my logical deduction support or prop up any political view. But we should be able to deduce that whatever the cause of the increase, it's source or cause is primarily outside our borders. For all we know, the Russians are manipulating things in those countries since they've recently meddled in Venezuela... But in all likelihood, it's just an increase in the intensity of the same factors that have driven them here for the last century.

How do they get their information?

.... the caravans just don’t form on their own ... there’s paid advocates down there leading them every step of the way ... and then there’s the cartels and coyotes ... u bet your sweet butt they have “recruiters” letting everyone know they can get them here ...

U have the advocates, cartels and coyotes guiding them every step of the way from getting them here to telling them what to say when they get here ... they know exactly what their doing ... they have it down to a science ... right now in the rio grande they’ll wait on the mexico side of the rio grande and wait til they see a border patrol unit coming down and wait til then to jump in casue they know there going to get rescued by us ...

Once they get across the border their well informed as the above groups tell them the best way to get in (hence the increase in children ... unless u think our changing the law to allow folks with children in and they won’t get sent back had nothing to do with the spike in “family units” arriving ... ) ....

U think thats just a coincidence? ... there’s an awful lot of coincidences ...

And dude ... how do they find out were “treating them like crap” but don’t find out about all the benefits when they get here .... that doesn’t make sense .... does it? ...

there’s pastors and other folks of the cloth giving a 100% different story on how the ICE facilities are being run ... now don’t mistake that for me saying the conditions aren’t bad ... of course they are ... u have 15,000 people in a shelter built for 5000k and its 103 outdoors all day every day ... of course things are gonna be hideous in many regards including basic human needs and supplies ... also don’t think that doesn’t mean i don’t think our president has made mistakes in regards to whats going on at the border) ...

I’d like to make sure i understand your views here ....

- U blame trump for how their being treated at the border ... is that correct? ...

i disagree with that ... i think he’s made some mistakes but i don’t “blame” him ... he’s the only one in our entire government trying to solve the issue ... and it is an issue ... take a look ... still til this day even after Trump has elevated it and exposed our BS immigration system in regards to the border ...

- u don’t blame trump for the overall “situation” with immigration and whats going on now with our southern border neighbors ... is that correct?

If so, we agree on something ...

Thanks for the replies ... i now understand how u actually feel about this one aspect of the problem ...

Now maybe we can stat to turn that corner u referred to in your first reply ... ...

Thanks again ...

Well that's three fourths of it. Yes.

Stupid me ... *L* ...

What’d i miss or were u just breaking my chops?

Just breaking your chops.

I'm sure there's more factors than I mentioned. I'm just pointing out the one's I'm well aware of.

Cracks me up that you post this and then follow it up by opining on the problem of fear based politics.

My 'opining' makes more sense when you take the comment as a whole statement instead of breaking it into the parts that fit your agenda to attack me.

"Cracks me up that people think they'll stop at just the illegals. POC, the poor, the sick, non-christians, LGBTQ, and those with different ideologies are all eventually on the list of the 'others'. That's the problem with fear based politics, there always has to be a boogie man or it doesn't work."

Do you agree that fear based politics requires a boogieman? And if so, what would happen in a hypothetical Trump admin where the illegal immigrant situation was handled? There would be a new boogieman, that's what. That's not a fear based political statement, that's just what Trump has made obvious. Do you think we don't hear him demonizing other groups? Unless you kiss his ass, you are a target, period.

This is leading up to gas chambers for anyone that Trump doesn't find acceptable.

At least it feels that way

I was talking to one of my friends and he said the black community is taking notice of Trump's racist tweets and how Pence and Graham reacted after visiting the border camps. I honestly don't think it would get to the level of gas chambers because there are too many that would make a stand, but this racist fascism unfolding before our eyes is no joke.

I wonder if someone said the same thing about Hitler?

Probably...

Your not going to get anywhere with this because some people feel no one should be let it, and others feel everyone should be let in.

The rest of us, that want the rules followed and enforced, apparently dont have a say and are bigots for doing so. . . . .

Sounds to me like the stuff negotiations are made of.
That is if we had a working Congress to negotiate with.