DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Democratic lawmaker criticizes GOP's Kaepernick ad

Whatever?

He wasn't arrested for protesting. He wasn't arrested for wearing a Fidel Castro shirt. He wasn't arrested for saying that Castro was a better leader and more fair than people in our government. He wasn't punished for wearing socks w/pigs in cop uniforms. He didn't even serve time for a rape that occurred w/him and two other guys as the accused. Those charges just magically disappeared in a cloud of mone.....errr....mist.

In fact, Kaepernick is making millions from Nike simply because of his protests. It sure isn't because he was good at football, because he sucked. Dude is a rich man for his protesting. So, excuse me if I don't cry him a river.

But aren't you and a lot of other people off base here just a little bit?

I mean I certainly agree with you that Kap has never been arrested for anything he has said or protested. I agree with you that I don't share his sentiments on many of the things he says or the methodology he uses to spread his message.

But who is it that's really responsible here? Kap didn't self appoint him as the Nike spokesperson. Kap didn't write and offer himself a huge Nike contract. Kap didn't make the call to pull those shoes off the shelf.

It seems to me everyone is too busy attacking the person who is doing the talking and spending too little time addressing the corporation responsible for making all the decisions.

Addressing the corporation?

My family is done with nike. You know, the company that makes billions by shipping production in from China where they pay next to nothing,(in comparison to u.s. workers) with few, if any benefits paid to the workers.

Then can you explain to me why the public outcry is against Kap and not Nike?

You see it everywhere. On this board and social media.

Nike means nothing to me. I have always thought they were overpriced and more of a fashion statement than quality. I do have some Browns gear that is Nike. Maybe we should boycott the NFL?

How could I explain the public? I am but 1 teeny tiny part of the public.

I see it everywhere? No, I don't.

This board is full of liberals/democrats from what I can see. Well, most of them that post 50 times a day.

Ah, so now we're going the old "post count" route.

I know you only look at things in your own home town and the big picture escapes you. But try expanding your horizon. There's a great bug world out there.

There IS a great bug world out there. I even have some right here.

I wasn't talking about YOU specifically when I said 50 posts a day........but, obviously you thought I was. What's that saying? About a shoe?

Sadly, for you, you are wrong about me only looking at my hometown. If you take the egg of your face, you could probably still fry it. But, carry on with you being you. I enjoy the humor, and the ignorance.

Oh, by the way - exactly WHAT is your expertise in the big picture?

Vers, I think the danger in your post is not whether you think a flag is racist, or Kaep is good or bad. I find it fascinating people are getting upset over a shoe they weren't going to buy anyway, but that's not the crux of it.

I'm also only really holding this conversation to you because I know that you are a smart person, and you do try to think of the bigger picture. I may not always agree with it, but I don't throw out the baby with the bathwater and assume you're talking in bad faith.



How are these two actions equivalent Vers? How is a company pulling a product for PR related to a political ad photoshop? Through this false equivalency, you're stating that you would prefer political ads photoshop black men to be darker than you would a company pull a product because they decided to. Next time you should dispel with the false equivalence, as it will bring more weight to your concern over the shoes being pulled.

I surround myself with people that both agree and disagree with the way I view the world and politics. I don't usually try to debate people based on, "Well around here we have good jobs we that can't be filled!". Like it's some measure of the nation.

You know, little things like that.

Oh, and BTW. I think you're using fuzzy math. On the 10th of August this board will be 13 years old. There are 365 days in a year. That would be a total of 4745 days. For any poster to average 50 posts a day, they would have a post count of 237,250 by august 10th.

Nobody does.

You're welcome.

Oh Dear Lord, help that man.

I'm not the one making false claims on a message board. Once again, you're welcome.

I guess you're wrong, once again. You surround yourself with people that think like you, and attack those that don't. Evidence: what you post on here.

And you know what? "we have good jobs that can't be filled" is nationwide, bud. Thanks for playing.

YOU, on the other hand, seem to think there aren't good paying jobs anywhere. You are all over the spectrum......when it suits a point you think you are making. And in the next thread, you post a different attitude/mentality.

A self professed expert at everything.

Hey, you're 60. How'd you get to retire a few years ago?

There are a lot of good jobs here in Nashville. They're EVERYWHERE here!

But see, some of the republicans here are smart. They give two years of free community college to prepare the work force with an education to attract those jobs. You know, you can't attract good jobs if you don't have people to fill them. Maybe that's the problem where you live?

How did I retire? Any time someone sticks there nose where it doesn't belong I tell them whatever I feel like telling them. It was great financial planning arch.

Why is it you didn't apply your education to the fullest?

Uh, isn't that local home town thinking like you just accused me of???????????
Odd. The workforce is out there. And here. Another day, another dollar from you. I could list about 40 companies right around here that are hiring......from fast food places at the low end - and I know those places are ALWAYS hiring - to jobs that start of at anywhere from 12 to $27 an hour. Have a friend who is the CEO of a construction company that guarantees a minimum of $50,000 the first year - for anyone - with health insurance, dental, per diem for food and board if you're out of town, etc. That's a first year employee.

Another friend that's the CFO of a company near here - They have a plant here, in CA, and in India. Weird, in India, they have no problem getting employees.........



Plus disability? Union?
What does this even mean? Exactly what are you saying with that statement?

Well of course it is. I live in BFE just like you do. It's a state thing. State policy has the most impact on jobs and having the people qualified to fill those jobs. I'm sure your work force all has the opportunity to fill the same jobs as those with two year degrees.



I'm sure you have the population of India.



Once again you are trying to stick your nose into my personal finances. Didn't your momma teach you any manners?



Well since you decided to try and get personal with sticking your nose into my finances I was simply trying to understand where you went to college to get a four year degree in handyman.

I'm not a handyman. Thanks though.

I don't live in BFE. Thanks though.

The work force here has all the opportunity. Drugs are bad, ok?

I wasn't sticking my nose into your finances. But, since you took it personal on that level, AND attempted to degrade me on my bachelor's degree, looks like I was right.

I might be off, Pit. I'm simply stating my opinion on the matter.

I also want to show you this in case you missed it:




Full article at https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27102136/kaepernick-moves-nike-pull-flag-shoe

Now, before you say that he didn't actually make the decision and executives at NIke did........yeah, I know that. But obviously, they would have never pulled it if Kaep hadn't opened his mouth.

I'm sorry, the original American flag did not represent slavery. It is not something to be ashamed of. If uneducated folks like Kaep don't take the time to know about the history of slavery across the globe in every single time period that exists, then that is their problem and I will NOT succumb to such political BS!

I think you have read enough of my posts to know that I support social reforms and I support minorities. I think the cause is righteous, but unfortunately, the wrong man got chosen due to the timing of what went down in the NFL, to be the face of the movement. Dude is a piece of crap of the highest order. Hell, he started all this just to please his damn girlfriend.

Put LeBron as the face and I am all in. But, don't let have some phony telling America that the flag is racist. This country has problems like every other country, but I am not embarrassed to live here. If I was.......I would leave.

Thanks for saying I am smart and try to look at the big picture. I think you are intelligent, as well.

gage, I did say this in my first reply to you after you questioned me:



Kaep and Nike initiated this argument. I can't get past that. What happened afterwards was triggered by Kaep's comments to Nike. Here is a simple analogy that I was a part of.

One of my former football players was in Music class. The class was held in a bowl-shaped auditorium w/a fairly dramatic incline from bottom to top. My player was approached by a Grunge member, who started verbally abusing him. Calling him names and such. The player didn't take the bait. The grunge dude started poking him in the chest. Still nothing from the player. The grunge dude then started pushing the football player while continuing to verbally abuse him. When the football player's back finally reached the wall, he decided he had enough and laid the other dude out w/one punch.

He was suspended from school and forced to miss two games. There were certain people who pushed for more. They said he got a lesser punishment because he was a football player.

The grunge kid was not punished for his role in the matter.

While I understand that the football player deserved to be punished because he decked the dude, I don't see how the aggressor in the incident goes unpunished. Without him forcing the action, there is no scene.

I see this situation in a similar manner. The picture was wrong if it was indeed intentional. I will say that I don't know if it was intentional or not, but it probably was. That was wrong.

However, it doesn't happen if Kaep doesn't tell Nike to pull an ad. He started this mess and some want to act like he should not be discussed and let's just pile on the other side. Sorry, I don't agree w/that.

I am on the left's side and I support minorities, but I will not lose my ethics and morality because I am part of a side. The bottom line is what is right and what isn't. Neither side was right here, but I put more blame on the person who initiated the conflict.

One more thing...........I don't support all the removing of statues in the south and all that goes w/it because I don't believe in censorship. I expressed those sentiments in PDX's Education thread.

To expound.......while some may see those statues as something that is being honored, I see them as an indictment and a reminder of what can happen when dishonorable acts are championed. It's a reminder to people like me to never allow such despicable behavior occur again. With that said, I get why people want them removed.

What I don't get is some fraud who is uneducated about history and supports a criminal like Castro telling me that our initial flag should not be displayed. I draw the line on BS like that.

And just remember, I am far more liberal than many. But, if it upsets me........what do you think that type of thinking does to many voters in the heartland. Many white, middle-class voters.

This is an ongoing battle that we need to try and win, but damn gage, we must pick the right battles to fight and not say and do things that will alienate those we wish to change.

I said this, but it was incorrect:



I made the censorship comments on the Censorship: A Warning thread and not on the Education thread.

Thanks for further explaining Vers, and providing such clarity. I think many of us want to just get better, and that was a post that did help me!

The problem I have with EVERYTHING you have said in this thread is that to me Kaep doesn't matter, nike doesn't matter, those stupid ass shoes with that dumbass flag you are so bitter about doesn't matter... BECAUSE the thread is about making a man's skin darker, a POC, while trying to villainize him for a political gain! You can discuss whatever you want about that other crap and I don't really care; but you go nuts when people do that to your threads, AND you seem to be cool with this happening which shocks the hell out of me about you.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread. I thought the two issues were related. I'll leave the thread.

I understand everything you said and I really only disagree with one part of it.

We were taught as children not to do stupid things just because someone told us to. That we should think for ourselves and make the right decisions.

It seems that you feel Kaep should take the blame because of what he told Nike. I believe Nike is responsible for their own actions. It's just hard for me to blame a washed up NFL player for the actions of a multi billion dollar corporation.

I think we both agree Colin says a lot of stupid things. Those who do what he says hold the blame for their own actions.

Alright, I'm back.

I left because OCD said I was hijacking his thread. I don't see how I was doing so because he brought up point B in his original post on this thread. I referred to point A. Without Point A, there would be no Point B. Thus, I did not--and still--do not think I was hijacking the thread at all.

I was going to leave the thread because I wanted to be polite.

After thinking about his posting history and some recent comments he made on another thread that were since deleted, I decided to post again. But even more importantly, we were actually having a decent discussion on here and I think OCD was upset because he was hoping this thread would be another "Progressive" type of thread where one side made fun of the other. LOL

So, Pit......I will respond to you in my next post because this one is too wordy.

just more mud...

That's a good post, Pit.

I don't think we are disagreeing too much. I hear what you are saying when you said:



You were referring to Nike listening to Kaep.

I mean, you are right, but I assumed we all knew that Nike is full of crap. I assumed we all knew that Nike is the epitome of marketing evil, exploitation, and manipulation. They have been for decades. Charging hundreds of dollars for shoes that cost them 8 cents to make. Having sweat shops in the S. Pacific where they had unsafe working conditions and paid their "employees" peanuts. They are like the devil.

It galls me that people fall for their marketing campaigns. Sacrificing Everything is just one such campaign.

Maybe people don't know all of this [I find it hard to believe] and perhaps you are right we need to put them at the forefront. I won't argue w/that much. I just thought it was understood that most people knew they were evil.

Thus, that is why I brought up Kaep. He initiated the entire thing. He is the one who somehow made a connection to Betsy Ross' flag and slavery.

I believe Nike listened not because they agree w/Kaep....how could they when they exploit the poor across the globe? ...but they went w/his recommendation because they thought it would put them in a more favorable light w/their target consumers.

Pit, I think you and I have similar political beliefs. I will just say to you what I said to gage and what I have tried telling Swish, Clem, CHS, etc many times before.....Don't lower yourself to their standards. Don't become what you hate. Fight hard, but fight honorably. You will win more support from those you wish to change if you are logical, rational, and fair-minded than you will if you are antagonistic and completely one-sided.

I do get down in the dirt with those who like to sling dirt. But let's face it, they're never going to change anyway. So it's no loss.

I'm just tired of anyone who doesn't walk the Trump chalk line being labeled as liberal. I'm tired of them being labeled as weak and snowflakes. I'm sure you've noticed that those on the right whine as much or more as those on the left do.

And I'm happy to help point that out.

There is one point that I will argue validates many of the things you and Vers say on here almost every day. The current tribal divides put centrist moderates in the unfamiliar and very uncomfortable position of being expected by the extremes in each tribe to pick a camp and stick with that decision on all political topics. This creates issues for the political 'a la carte' centrists who prefer to either find a compromise or to weigh which tribe is offering the best solution from their viewpoint.

But to be honest the extremes are always arguing this point with the center, it's just that the tribal divides are amplifying the calls for tribal unity as if centrist will otherwise have no place in the tribe moving forward. However, that's not true now nor will it be in the future. There will always be centrists and you will always be able to decide where you stand on each topic. But I do understand how this must be making you guys feel.

I don't feel like an extreme lefty even though I'm labeled that by all the conservatives and centrists here. I just feel the center has been moved to the right and policies have been skewed to help those at the economic top rather than the much larger common population for far too long. I would love a legislative body that included all views and found compromise as long as it's a people first system. We haven't had that for a long long time, if ever. I think that currently the left stands for more of what I believe but that does not mean I would blindly follow them over the cliff. I was once a republican before the inmates took over the asylum.

I have voted for moderate Republicans before. I supported Bill Haslam as the gov. of Tennessee when he was in office. He supported and was able to pass The Tennessee Promise which gave all residents of Tennessee a two year, free college education at any state community college. Of course things like grades and community service was tied into it and I think rightly so. He did his best to pass the expansion of medicaid in the state but could not get it passed by a conservative state legislature.

But I'm far more liberal in regards to social policies, yet I look for some moderation and practicality as to how they are implemented.

I don't have a place in the political divide that exists today. It doesn't exist. The closest I can come to are the few and declining amount of moderate Democrats that exist at this time.

The Republicans have gone completely off the rails to support the most UnAmerican president I've ever seen. A man who only uses division and separation to strengthen the divide among our fellow Americans. Who is a nasty and wretched human being. A man who will create a situation and then look for others to solve it.

And I know some hate to hear it, but when you claim you're going to build a wall and shut down the border, people are going to flock to the border like never before. Then people have the nerve to blame Democrat policy and Trump tries to put the blame on them to solve it? Some of the BS his supporters believe is unreal.

The only choice I have at this time is to try and help vote this man out of office. He's put a scourge on our nation. He's broken down America's right to call on the world to be humanitarians and promote human and civil rights from other nations of the world.

He has caused the world to doubt the word of America by pulling out of both the Iran nuclear deal and the Paris climate accord. It's what trade wars will never work. China knows all they have to do is wait out Trump and it will all be over. And they will.

Right now, on the world stage, we are a crap show. And it's shameful.

Tell Megan Rapinoe that poor Kaep is the only facing push back.

Kaep protested, Nike caved, folks are upset... A lot of folks don't like Kaep, but they are more upset at Nike for caving so easily.....

But I guess your point is that Kaep is allowed to have his say but nobody is allowed to respond to it?

j/c:

Will someone tell me what a "Centrist" is? Apparently, I am one of them according to Professor OCD.

Have I ever expressed my feelings on how much I despise labels and categorizing people into neat and tidy groups?

Pssst.... Centrists are the sane group.

Meaning you arent an extremist on either side.

According to OCD, if you're a centrist, you're an alt right Trump nazi.

I ride the fence all the time. I like a lot of progressive policy so according to hard rights I'm a cuck. I like the idea of free market and generally am weary of sociliscm, that makes me a facist nazi. Hard lefts and rights demand that you follow their way of thinking and if you don't you're a dangerous centrist helping to elect the other side that they don't like.

Welcome to the well adjusted crew.

Everybody will have their own definition.. to me it means somebody who can find things they support in both the dem and rep platforms, believes we would be better off if both sides were willing to compromise toward an equitable solution, and generally doesn't buy into the extreme wing of either party.

A person who holds moderate political views. That is you.

You claim to be a centrist but many of your post show you to be Trumpian.

Why we're at it somebody tell me what a liberal extremist is? Does wanting affordable healthcare for all make me an extremist? Or affordable education? Or a country that doesn't judge the value of a man by his skin tone or the size of his bank account? Or maybe it's that I don't like they 5-1 rate of incarceration for POCs compared to whites or they much higher officer involved slaying of POCs...

If those are the qualifications, well I guess I'm an extremist.

That is like the coolest post I have ever read.

I think it's more about the extremes which you are avoiding to mention.

Let's break it down into the topics you mentioned that represent what I'm talking about.



I don't believe that makes you an extremist at all. I feel that by and large everyone wants affordable healthcare. But where the extreme part comes in is when it gets to the point that someone wishes to dictate that you have no choice in healthcare. Where the government dictates that you can get healthcare through them and only them. Where what they tell you is that their healthcare plan is your only option. When you get told you have to give up your private healthcare through your employer because your government tells you that you must.



Once again in this very thread we've seen people from all sides of the political spectrum state that they think education is too expensive. We've seen ideas from republicans, democrats, libertarians and independents on ways and ideas on how to help curb costs.

But "free college for all with the taxpayers footing the bill" is where that extremist line gets draw. Free education and affordable education are not the same thing.

I don't believe that by and large anyone is happy with the other things you mention as well. But you see, that's what happens when we look at the extremes of both parties. When you try to portray those of either party as what the extreme fringe of that party looks like, you are actually making them all feel labeled and attacked.

I know for a fact that there are a lot of people that voted for Trump that really don't like Trump. They don't like the things he says. They don't like the example he sets for this country.

Some people in business only think about the bottom line. A lot of people only care about "money first". Outside of that, their political interest is non existent. And I'm not sure that really has anything to do with what they actually feel is right politically.

In both the cases I mentioned above, they see him as the only choice. When you try to use those extremes I mentioned like "free college" and "government run healthcare" as their only option", you are alienating a lot of people who agree with you in principal, but not in the extremist way you wish to go about the implementation of your ideas.