DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Understands Politics Better Than Her Critics #2

All I'm really saying is this one undeniable truth: sooner or later, everything changes. Always.

An every point you made was correct, true and valid. Doesn't change the march of time. There's no assurance that these nutty kids will get their way now or even 5 years from now. They may never get their way, and be supplanted by some other faction/movement.

But change is inevitable. Get ready. I myself try to stay ready. So even though I'm a ol' fart like you, I'm really not askeered of the future or desperate to keep things the way they are. And I damn sho have no desire to revisit/recreate the past. It's unnatural and antithetical to our evolutionary nature.

.02

Yea, right, things will change.

I remember being a hippy and all my friends were the same.

Then we grew up, had families, built careers, made money and wanted to keep what we built.

That is when we became Republicans and ushered in Ronald Reagan.

Seems the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Well, I can't speak for you, but there has been enough change in just my lifetime for me to be able to legally vote (and yes- there were people working overtime to keep that from happening).

I've had a satisfying career and successful life because I was could read, and wasn't chained in a field somewhere. Some folks didn't want that to happen before my time here, and enough changed for me to have my shot.

A marriage like mine was illegal- until it wasn't. Ticked people off to no end, but they moved on and got over it. Most of them, that is (those who didn't are now called 'Proud Boys').

GM can get legal cannabis for his medical situation- before, he'd have needed to risk going to jail. People (and elves like Jeff Sessions) were against that, too.


Do you understand what I'm saying now?

Change is inevitable.
No matter what you say or think or feel.

Hey- not all change is bad. Those changes I described have made my life immeasurably better than previous generations, and your life was made none the worse for it.

And not all 'progress' needs to be slapped with a "liberal" label, either. Some stuff just is because: people. He who continually digs in his heels gets dragged whether he likes it or not.

It's called: Real Life.

It's all becoming pretty clear... you are just the mirror image of 40... Your tactics, your style of arguing, it's all exactly the same.... you kiss arse on anything blue and the bluer the better... and he kisses arse on anything Donald Trump... other than that, you are the same person.

And not all change is good.

agreed.

Is there a message behind your statement that press to the current subject matter, or are you simply trying to add balance to the thread?

I don't read his stuff much.

Oh my, I'll just put this article from The Hill, here:


CBC lawmakers rip Justice Democrats for targeting black lawmakers for primaries

By Scott Wong -


07/12/19



Congressional Black Caucus members are furious at Justice Democrats, accusing the outside progressive group aligned with firebrand Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) of trying to oust lawmakers of color, specifically African American lawmakers.

Justice Democrats is backing primary challengers to eight-term Rep. Henry Cuellar (D-Texas), a Hispanic Caucus member, and 10-term Rep. Wm. Lacy Clay (D-Mo.), a member of the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC). The insurgent group also made noise this year about challenging Democratic Caucus Chairman Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.), a CBC member seen as the heir apparent to Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.).


And CBC leaders are fretting that Justice Democrats may target other black lawmakers in the coming weeks and months, including Reps. Yvette Clarke (D-N.Y.), Joyce Beatty (D-Ohio), Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.) and Anthony Brown (D-Md.). Brown said the group has been making calls in his district, actively trying to recruit a challenger to run against him — something that Justice Democrats denies.

“It just seems strange that the social Democrats seem to be targeting members of the Congressional Black Caucus, individuals who have stood and fought to make sure that African Americans are included and part of this process,” Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-N.Y.), a senior CBC member, told The Hill.

“I don’t know what that agenda is, but if they want to come after members of the Black Caucus, it’s two ways,” warned Meeks, the Queens Democratic Party boss who clashed with Justice Democrats in a local district attorney race last month.

Some Democrats are hoping that Ocasio-Cortez, the rabble-rousing freshman with 4.7 million Twitter followers, gets a primary challenge herself in 2020.

Justice Democrats stormed onto the scene last year when one of their little-known handpicked candidates, Ocasio-Cortez, who is Hispanic, unseated then-Rep. Joseph Crowley, the powerful Democratic caucus chairman, in a New York primary.

In a statement, Justice Democrats’ executive director, Alexandra Rojas, defended the group’s strategy, noting that it has endorsed several candidates of color.

One of them is Cori Bush, a registered nurse and Black Lives Matter activist who is taking on Clay for the second time.

“We are supporting a black woman who is a community organizer who has taken on police brutality in the St. Louis area,” Rojas said. “Seventy percent of congressional districts in America have no competitive general election; primaries are often the only places where voters can have a real say.

“Barack Obama first ran for Congress in a primary challenge to Rep. Bobby Rush, a CBC member,” Rojas added. “This is a democracy and voters deserve choices.”

Justice Democrats also pointed out that they endorsed Ayanna Pressley, an African American woman, in her successful primary challenge last year against Democratic Rep. Mike Capuano in a Massachusetts district where minorities make up the majority.


This cycle, Justice Democrats is also supporting Bronx educator Jamaal Bowman, who is black, as he takes on House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.), who is Jewish, and Jessica Cisneros, a 26-year-old Hispanic woman who is running against her former boss, Cuellar.

The CBC’s allegations are “absurd and more about protecting incumbency over democracy,” a Justice Democrats source said.

In the last cycle, Justice Democrats backed American Civil Liberties Union activist Chardo Richardson over Rep. Stephanie Murphy (D-Fla.), who made history as the first Vietnamese American woman elected to Congress. The group in 2018 also endorsed Bush, who eventually lost to Clay by nearly 20 points in the primary. This week, the group said they will back Bush once again as she gives it another shot in Missouri.

In an interview in the Capitol, Clay said it was absolutely clear that Justice Democrats are targeting lawmakers of color like himself. He and his father, Bill Clay, have represented the district for the past 50 years, and Lacy Clay called the group’s actions “insulting” to the intelligence of Missouri voters.

“They are going after the wrong target. Instead of fighting Republicans and defeating Trump and holding on to our majority, they find it convenient to go after their own, which is to me a bunch of B.S.,” Clay told The Hill.

He likened Justice Democrats to “Russian trolls of 2016” trying to sow divisions in the Democratic Party.

“It does make you wonder what’s going on,” added another CBC member, Rep. Robin Kelly (D-Ill.). “Some names that have been mentioned all seem to be people of color, and more so CBC members.”

CBC members and some top Democratic aides have questioned who is pulling the strings at Justice Democrats. The group, which is targeting entrenched incumbent Democrats they view as insufficiently progressive and beholden to corporate donors, was founded in the wake of President Trump’s surprise 2016 victory by progressive media personalities Cenk Uygur and Kyle Kulinski, along with Bernie Sanders organizers Saikat Chakrabarti and Corbin Trent.

Uygur and Kulinski are no longer with the group. And after winning a seat in Congress, Ocasio-Cortez hired Chakrabarti as her chief of staff and Trent as her communications director.

Justice Democrats’ spat with the Black Caucus comes amid high racial tensions in the 235-member House Democratic Caucus. Ocasio-Cortez accused Pelosi of singling out “newly elected women of color” when the Speaker scolded lawmakers in a private meeting Wednesday for tweeting at each other.

Pelosi clarified Thursday that her comments were aimed at Chakrabarti, Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff, who had earlier tweeted that the moderate New Democrats and Blue Dog Coalition should be renamed “The New Southern Democrats.”

“They certainly seem hell bent to do to black and brown people today what the old Southern Democrats did [during] the 40s,” Chakrabarti wrote, later deleting the tweet.

A senior House Democratic aide called it “ironic and funny” that Ocasio-Cortez is accusing Pelosi of attacking women of color, when Justice Democrats is targeting minority lawmakers.

“She’s only a woman of color when it’s convenient. None of the things she’s fought for aligned with communities of color and her group is funded only by elitist white liberals; she’s a puppet,” the top Democratic aide told The Hill in a phone call.

The aide then texted an image of a Goomba puppet from the Super Mario Bros. video game.

“I can’t tell you how pissed off people are” about the Justice Democrats, the aide added. “All these CBC members feel like they are under siege. But it’s offensive that these elitist white liberals feel like they can undermine the foundation of our party,” African American voters.

Trent, Ocasio-Cortez’s now-spokesman, declined to comment for this story.

Top CBC member Meeks now is calling for a meeting between CBC leaders and Justice Democrats to find out why they are targeting lawmakers of color.

“We will have to, at some point, sit down and see: Is this something that is directed at members of the Congressional Black Caucus?” Meeks asked. “We’re going to sit down with whoever the social Dems are. We have to find out who they are. Who is really running this show. We have to figure that out.”

Rep. Donald McEachin (D-Va.), a CBC member, said it was upsetting that Justice Democrats appeared to be taking aim at so many black lawmakers, especially since they have some of the most progressive voting records in the caucus.

“I think challenging other Democrats in the primary when we’re trying to hold on to the majority is wrong unless the person is so far out of bounds, so far away from Democratic orthodoxy, but that’s not what’s going on here,” McEachin told The Hill.

“It’s disturbing to see challenges to that many CBC members.”


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/45...ck?userid=73932

More the latter. Like you, I have seen my share of change in my days.. societal as well as personal.... much of it good, but certainly not all of it good... and I have viewed that change from a completely different perspective than the way you have viewed the change... because of our different backgrounds, that's inevitable.

I think that is the biggest thing I've learned as I have grown and matured, is to appreciate the differing perspectives on change. I will openly admit that some of the change I look back on now as very positive change, I wasn't 100% in favor of at the time... I was wrong then.. so I try to leave open the possibility that I might be wrong now when I try to fight change... so I've learned to listen and get out of my own echo chamber and hear others with a different perspective.

I read that article about the Justice dems. At first I was wondering why they were targeting the CBC and if it was racially motivated. Turns out they are backing many POC to run against what they perceive to be establishment dems. Just progressives taking over your government, nothing to see here...

Don't know anything about the guy who made this video but here it is anyway:

After all It’s the trump era!

My faith is in the fact we are witnessing the implosion of the Democrat Party and that is not good for America.

Another 40¢ post, responding to some trifle I blithely tossed off- what? ... two days ago?


Apparently, your headspace is available to me rent-free, 24/7... seeing as how I moved on from this subject long ago, yet your space remains vacant/vacuous, following my departure.


So, thanks.
I think I'll keep you around as surplus storage for my 'disposable thought stream.'

It's nice that I never have to pay a monthly fee.

I watched the video more because I have seen very little of AOC than anything. I thought she was eloquent and framed the argument well. I skipped through the guy at the end - but his comments about the rest of the 1st world having socialized medicine... well I've been saying that forever.

Here you are again confusing your fantasies for reality. The dems might infight and revolt and remake themselves... but they are not the imploding party by a long long long damn shot. When the light of reality finally pierces your blinders, I hope you will be able to live with Trump's destruction of the GOP and American democracy for the 4 or 8 years YOU and YOUR KIND have given him. Because when he is finally gone, it will be y'all paying the price, living with the shame, scrambling to hold on and find a place for yourselves in the real world. A world forever altered for the worse by your man crush.

I hate this twitter post with a passion. Fire emojis, SAVAGE, EVISCERATED, Literally and completely! I really do hate how the right has adopted this "Hello fellow kids" mindset on social media. I digress.

She was not prepared for that response.

She seemed pretty damn well prepared to me. I think he gave responses that have already been seen numerous times. She redirected him to her point time and again, she moved on when he kept dodging. She handled it just fine.

You're so sunny you have been accused of global warning.

The only way trump leaves the WH is in a box. Democracy is dead in the USA. And the MAGAtards own it. Welcome to the new normal. Dictatorship.

You seriously believe that? If so, seek help.

I am one of the biggest Trump supporters on these boards and even I would fight against a Dictatorship!

First however, I must fight against your Socialism.

American Democracy First!

6

ok bro. That ship already sailed. Don’t believe it, just watch.

And besides declaring a fight against a society that has empathy and is kind and caring is a dictation to create an evil society. A dictatorship. Enjoy.

Empathy and caring are fine but it is your socialist economic policies that should frighten us all.

Yep - because all the other 1st world countries in the world with "Socialist" economic policies like free healthcare .... you know the ones, with healthcare ranked ahead of the USA, countries that are ranked ahead of the USA in the 'Best places to live' lists .... yep, those countries are all such terrible places right? SMH.

And the continuous divisiveness, hate, bigotry, and malice that it takes to author tweets like this daily does not frighten you at all? smh

.

j/c:

And telling American citizens to "go back to where they came from because their countries need them" when they were born in America means you helped elect a racist moron.

I'm sure those who voted for Trump for "telling it like it is" will be by soon to tell you what he meant.

Like when he's talking about the countries they came from he actually means their districts. Because you know, their congressional districts aren't in America.

We've already seen that stupidity posted.

Both of these things can be very bad.

And don't refer to me electing a racist moron, as I didn't vote for him. But kudos to you for addressing the article.

You're welcome.

I'll respond to your article which is just an opinion piece with another I read yesterday at about the same time I saw the one you posted.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2...umn/1715320001/

After reading both, I decided neither was worth posting because the opposing views don't merit discussion when weighed against the distraction from addressing the much more important racists tweets that Trump posted.

And while we're on the topic of AOC going back to her country... isn't she of Puerto Rican descent? Last I knew Puerto Rico is part of the US.

She was born in the Bronx. Last time I checked that was in the United States. Unless Trump has expelled every state from the country that voted for Hillary and nobody told me.

I watched that C-Span video that "Benny Johnson" tweets about and to be honest, I think his assessment is way overblown. She doesn't get "embarrassingly destroyed". The clip is cut before we can truly see where it goes and how it ends. So, in my opinion it's a soundbyte taken out of context and manipulated to suit the conservative media's unhealthy, and quite frankly weird, obsession they have with AOC.

I'm talking about her ethnic heritage. I know she was born and raise in NYC.

I agree.

Used to be both sides would claim victory in any kind of confrontation like this... with both sides saying their points were more valid, their side was better prepared, blahblahblah..

Now that's not enough, people tweet about these things with all of the enthusiasm of a WWE announcer.. It's not enough to say you got the better of the situation, it has to be a beat down, eviscerated, destroyed, taken behind the woodshed...

I agree. I think that is a symptom caused by the explosion of social media as a primary source of news and communication. And I'm not sure that genie will ever be put back into the bottle.