DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Abortion Battle part 2

Sorry man, you don't see much.

Science is continually seeking life in the universe, yet many can't see that splitting cells in a uterus is life.

If it wasn't human life, it would be strictly protected, thanks in part to you, human life is thrown away.

Get lost

You know the sad part about this is if Planned Parenthood just stopped doing abortions they could still get the funding for the good things they provide. But NNNOOOOO thats not going to happen.

Well the people who run Planned Parenthood have a deep belief that helping women - including abortion - is important. So important that it's better to still include that part of what they offer to support women than simply take the federal dollars and cease offering it. Their belief is as strong as your belief - just opposite.

I agree that their feelings and beliefs are just as strong, and they have every right to their feelings and beliefs as I do.

They weren't doing abortions, they were only making referrals to safe and affordable abortion services. DAMN THEM...

The is like your family doctor being defunded because they refer you to a specialist that accepts medicare or is willing to work with you on payments.

1. There is zero reason why GM and I should have to pay them to send women to the butcher.

2. My Doctor does not kill children. If he did, I would defund him.

This is from the PP website:

"Where can I get an in-clinic abortion?
You can get an in-clinic abortion at many Planned Parenthood health centers. Our caring doctors and nurses are experts at providing safe abortion and providing support throughout the process."

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/...clinic-abortion

I love how one of the lefts mantra is whos gonna pay for these children and are so very tax conscious about that ,but they have tax problems with the illegals that are costing us billions but- oh well- agendas are more important than human lives even after they are born SMH

I get that some PP locations perform abortions on premises. But those were already defunded. 40's post was celebrating the defunding of PP locations and others that merely make abortion referrals. That's why my post points that pout.

No. 40 is celebrating the fact he no longer has to pay for referrals to the butcher.

I thought about it and would like to add that I have no problem helping any children that need it no matter what origin for they are the innocent ones in this debate but when that child is fully formed inside the mother or outside of her it is not her body and is not her decision to murder that child at that point IMO.

Let's translate that......

You know, if Planned Parenthood could be blackmailed into stop performing a perfectly legal procedure we would stop withholding their funding.

Keywords 'Fully formed'. A fully formed fetus would be late term. I don't think anybody is fighting for third trimester abortions. And killing a fully formed baby 'outside' of it's mother would be murder. Who is killing babies after they are born?

Could you please tell me where Roe V Wade guaranteed tax payer money to pay for abortions?

You need to read my signature bro. Because your wrong. *gives Old Cold a hug*

Well GM I'm sure it didn't. But somewhere along the line some legislation did provide that funding or the checks would never have been cut. And I'm sure the reason was to provide low cost female reproductive healthcare to a percentage of the population that would otherwise go without. Pap smears, mammograms, urinary tract infections, menstrual cycle issues, tubal ligations, iud implants, birth control meds, and a litany of other female complications were all defunded too. Congratulations on your victory.

The clinics doing abortions were already defunded. This particular Trump victory was defunding the rest of PP over referrals. Referrals were his excuse because he promised to defund PP during his campaign. It had nothing to do with them 'providing abortions' on the taxpayers dime.

Once agai your wrong bro. I don't see this as a victory. I see it as a loss on both sides.



I see the lose of those services as a screw up on both sides (BUT with more blame going to the left.) Quit trying to spend taxpayer money on abortions and the other things would all be covered, and funded. The problem with the left is their see they won't support woman so it's all their fault, instead of looking in the mirror and saying why is the left acting like a child and crying that they are taking their ball and going home instead of working to help the folks who they have been screaming for years that they support?

That's where your homework has failed you GM. Planned Parenthood used no federal money to pay for abortion. None, zero, nada. Not one dime of federal funds were used to perform abortions.

That's exactly why I translated what you said. You see, all of the federal money that has been taken away from Planned Parenthood went towards birth control, cancer screenings, mammograms and other women's health services.

It was nothing more than a political ploy to force them to stop performing abortion.



I'm not quite sure where you got the idea that abortions were being paid for with federal tax dollars, but that certainly wasn't the case. The fact is, Planned Parenthood and the vast majority of their patients have been punished even though your tax dollars were not paying for abortions.

Not wrong.

And that second bit was a little hard to get your meaning, but you don't get to blame the left for existing legislation that funded PP abortion referrals or abortions. The right and left passed that legislation in another more compassionate era. As for dems not wanting to let the right rip the money away for STILL LEGAL abortion services, why should they? Because men like you want to control what a woman can do with her body? Or because men like you think we're baby killers for supporting a woman's right to choose? Or because men like you have some sort of religious objection to 'legal' abortions? GMAB bro.

EDIT: Pit is right above and I completely forgot about the Hyde amendment. The abortions were not covered by government funds at all. The referrals, pre-abortion counseling, pregnancy tests, and other test prior to a female making her choice were covered.

But, couldn't it be argued that, while no federal funding went for abortions, federal funding towards planned parenthood freed up donations to go towards abortions?





And truthfully, I know 1 gal that went to pp. Many years ago. Pregnant. And pp 'advised'/'educated' her - gave her options, and she decided to have the baby and not abort.


But, do you see what I'm getting at? Money comes in, not for abortions......but that does free up other money FOR abortions.

I guess that depends on your feelings on the matter.

Medicaid pays for birth control, mammograms, cancer screenings and other female services no matter what doctor a woman goes to.

So you would have to try and come up with a reason why medicaid would have the right to exclude one place from receiving the exact same payments as all other health providers in the nation.

Which takes us right back to the point i made to begin with. They are being singled out and punished because they provide abortions. Which is a perfectly legal procedure in the United States.

So it seems you propose they be punished not because they are doing anything illegal, but over a certain part of our political sector and population is passing moral judgement. And that moral judgement gives them the right to single them out and refuse to give them equal funding for already approved services.

Once again, you take liberties with what I said, OR, you don't understand what I said.

I didn't say to punish pp. I simply asked "if fed. money is doing all this womens health stuff, doesn't that free up money from donations to do abortions?"



Can you even reason with me here? Can you see the point I'm making? Forget that Arch is the one posting it for a second.

PP has a budget. Any money they get from the gov't. goes towards that budget.

And you totally ignore my friends situation, where she was convinced after talking to pp to NOT have an abortion.

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about here but let me try again.

Firstly, I didn't ignore the experience of your friend. I've known all along that Planned Parenthood has never tried to promote that anyone has an abortion. Some people try to portray it that way but it's simply not the case.

And I didn't mean to insinuate that you suggested punishing Planned Parenthood but that instead that is the end result of what you're suggesting.

They provide the same services that many other places provide in terms of mammograms, cancer screening, birth control and other services covered by medicaid. All of those services are approved through medicaid. Abortion is 100%legal.

So what has happened is that the government has refused to pay them for approved medicaid procedures simply because they perform another 100% legal service the government does not fund. They have been targeted not because they have broken any laws. Not because the procedures they perform are not covered by medicaid.

But because some propose punishing them on moral grounds. Why should any agency that is performing procedures and services covered 100% through medicaid be singled out and they be refused to be paid for those services?

I certainly understand your premise. What you're saying is that Planned Parenthood should be forced to raise their own funds to perform services to poor people that everyone else in the country gets reimbursed for because you know, they perform totally legal abortions.

That is about certain people's version of morality being inflicted on women in America because so far they can't change that law. So if they can't change it, they'll manipulate the system to prevent it anyway.

And let's look at this from another angle, shall we? Many times Planned Parenthood locations are the only option in very poor areas. The choices of places that are available to these people are almost non existent.

So now, if you close Planned Parenthood locations, these women have no access to birth control. So now the pregnancy rates in these areas will increase. Breast cancers will not be diagnosed in time to save these women. Cancer screenings will not be given.

All of these things will disappear and in the end it will cost the tax payers even more in treatments, social programs and other costs those who can't see past their own nose will cost us. And who will suffer the most? Poor women.

Planned Parenthood ousts president amid 'differences'

Dr. Leana Wen, the first physician to lead Planned Parenthood in nearly 50 years, is out of a job less than a year after she took over.

Abby Johnson: Planned Parenthood isn’t about health care, it’s about abortion – That’s why I quit

By Abby Johnson | Fox News

I am not prone to shedding tears or being overly emotional. I prefer to use my innate sarcasm and wit instead of crying when emotion hits harder than I expect. But when I read Dr. Leana Wen’s tweet about being shoved out of Planned Parenthood, where she served as president, I cried.

Tears seemed like an appropriate response as I stood in solidarity with Wen. I was reminded of my own loss of security and friendships when I left Planned Parenthood 10 years ago.

While I never rose to become president of Planned Parenthood, I was on track to a high position in the nonprofit when I started thinking that my own philosophy wasn’t the same as my employer’s.

I became director of the clinic I started out volunteering for and stayed on for eight years. Like Wen, I became aware of the abortion-centric mentality of Planned Parenthood and wasn’t comfortable with it. It took me a lot longer than Wen to figure that out. She came to the conclusion mere months after signing on as president of the organization.

I left after I assisted in the ultrasound-guided abortion of a 13-week-old fetus and realized humanity in the womb existed – humanity that I had shoved aside for years. But when I left, I also left all my “friends” behind, the people in the clinic I worked with daily, my supervisors, and even my pro-choice church family.

It was hard. I imagine Wen is experiencing similar feelings of betrayal. I know exactly what that betrayal feels like. I know exactly what kind of “secret meetings” Wen was referring to when she tweeted out she was leaving Planned Parenthood.

Perhaps Wen didn’t leave because of a profound conversion, but she did make it clear she left because Planned Parenthood has too many problems that she can’t ignore. And that is amazing. As a doctor, I’m sure the rose-colored glasses were ripped off pretty quickly once she was inside. And now she’s out.

What I didn’t realize was that the people I saw all the time at the fence outside my Planned Parenthood office were silent prayer warriors, praying for my conversion and my departure from the abortion giant. I joined them when I walked out and soon came to learn that it wasn’t only the Coalition for Life in Texas that was praying for me, but a whole network of people who were begging God to change hearts. Hearts like mine.

Once I started telling my story, I began to meet more and more people who couldn’t wait to tell me that they had been praying for me. Some for years.

At first, it was a little disconcerting and surreal. I didn’t even know these people, yet, here I was, a living breathing answer to their prayers. But once I began to find more of my own healing and experienced a conversion and a deeper understanding within my own spiritual life, I got it. I started praying for my former boss, Cecile Richards, then-president of Planned Parenthood.

I had admired and respected Richards when I worked at Planned Parenthood. I enjoyed being with her and felt like I had learned a lot from her. So I prayed for her to quit.

My conversion was God’s victory. What a victory it would be if God pulled on Cecile’s heart the same way He did mine. And I prayed for that, day after day, after I left Planned Parenthood.

When Richards resigned, I felt defeated because it seemed she had not experienced the same conversion I had. I felt like God wasn’t listening to me. Doesn’t everyone of faith feel like that at some point in their lives?

I was sad because I wanted Richards to have the same freedom I did: that moment when you walk out the door and you know you’ll never look back.

Of course, God’s timing isn’t our timing. There is still time for Richards’ conversion. But what about Wen?

Because Wen is a physician, many of our former abortion workers that I now work with through And Then There Were None paid particular attention to what she was saying about Planned Parenthood. We were interested in knowing how she would react once she was exposed to the group’s constant mantra of pushing abortion over all else. Would she visit clinics and sit in on abortions or perform them herself?

Wen knows what real health care is and perhaps doesn’t put abortion in that category. With Planned Parenthood’s terrible track record of failed clinic inspections, a good doctor is not what the group is looking for. Forget health care, this is about abortion, which to Planned Parenthood is a political issue.

Many of our former workers started praying for Wen’s conversion the moment it was announced she would be president of Planned Parenthood. I started praying for her conversion too. If we profess to be Christians, we have to act as such.

Degrading memes and snarky responses to Wen’s sudden departure won’t help her. She recently suffered a miscarriage, which she discussed publicly only a few weeks ago. And now she’s lost her job.

At a time when Wen’s co-workers should be supporting her healing, they simply disregarded her recent loss and expected her to soldier on. Wen needs a community that will surround her and care for her right now in her time of need.

I don’t expect that Wen is pro-life or even anything that resembles pro-life. I wasn’t either when I first walked away from Planned Parenthood.

But the chance for a real conversion is so much greater now that Wen is away from that organization. And when that moment does come, I am ready. I am ready to chat with her for hours, to hear her story, to grieve with her, and to mourn the loss of her own child. I am here, arms open.

It’s my prayer that her moment of clarity comes quickly. And when it does, she will need a safe place to land. I urge the pro-life movement to be sure we are that place.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/abby-johnson-planned-parenthood

Myth #1: Planned Parenthood is all about abortions

A former senator of Arizona claimed that 90% of Planned Parenthood's services were geared towards abortion services.

Man, that statistic was way off. Abortion services only account for 3%! 80% of what Planned Parenthood does relates to the prevention of unintended pregnancy through contraception and education.

It's true that Planned Parenthood performs the largest number of abortions of any reproductive health care provider, which is partly where the myth comes from; but it is also the largest provider with over 700 clinics scattered around the US.

Myth #2: Most of their abortion services are performed on adolescents

I admit, my understanding of who got abortions was heavily influenced by the movie Juno, but I was surprised that only 26% of Planned Parenthood clients who had received an abortion were teenagers, meaning that 74% are 20 years of age and older.

“It doesn’t just happen to young people, it doesn’t necessarily have to do with irresponsibility,” the president of PP, Rhode Island said in a press release.

I was even more surprised that 60% of women in the US who choose to get an abortion have already given birth to a child.

Myth #3 All of PP's services are pregnancy-focused and woman-focused

This one's understandable. I mean, it's what PP's known for. Evidently, they provide a plethora of services, ranging from over 500,000 breast exams to detect signs of breast cancer in women, to testicular and colon cancer screenings for men.

Combating sexually transmitted infections (STIs), including HIV, is also a big part of what they do. Men, women and teenagers have made use of the 4.5 million tests and treatments that have been provided by PP.

Myth #4: Their government-funded, extensive education programs aren't doing anything

PP is leading the conversation on sexual education--through sex-ed and outreach, they've allegedly helped reduce teen pregnancies to the lowest they've been in 20 years! They must be doing something right.

They've also reached over 1.5 million adolescents and families, and trained over 18,000 teachers, school staff and youth counsellors in the process.

Although the immediate effects aren't super apparent, the lead educator of the program sums up the importance of education well: “Young people cannot be expected to make safe, healthy decisions if they don’t have the complete range of information.”

Myth #5: Taxpayer dollars are going towards PP abortions

That's actually illegal--and I'm pretty sure a health care provider as big as Planned Parenthood wouldn't get away with that.

By law, the federal government can't pay for abortion services unless the cases involve rape, incest or endanger the mother's life. This isn't new either. Otherwise known as the Hyde Amendment, the law has been enforced since 1977.

Unfortunately, uninsured, low-income women are most harshly affected by this.

Myth #6: PP is limited to the US

False: their reach has been expanding overseas for the past 40 years! People in 13 different countries across Africa and Latin America have access to PP's educational services, contraception, unsafe abortion treatment and abortion services.

PP claims to be dedicated to improving global access to reproductive health care.

What's the bigger picture?

Being able to access reproductive health care is a concern worldwide--one that could save lives and empower millions of women.

What distinguishes Planned Parenthood's services is that they're hygienic, safe and non-discriminatory. They're available to people all over the US, which is a right that's denied to many people across the globe, including almost 22 million women who experience unsafe abortions each year.

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/6-myths-about-planned-parenthood/

Abby Johnson is a liar.. Just like Trump

Bro we need some alternative facts to win the Christian GOPer backing for PP...

#ATruth 1 - PP has taken out more Muslims than all of the US golf wars combined! It allows Muslim abortions at any stage of development including after live birth.

#ATruth 2 - PP has been the single biggest factor for maintaining white christian majority in this country for 50 years. Defunding PP will usher in a POC non-christian majority within 10 years.

#ATruth 3 - PP saves the US Government 125 Billion a year in welfare handouts.

Now that would win some votes on the right... Trupian votes.

Planned Parenthood opens Illinois 'mega-clinic' secretly built to counter tough Missouri anti-abortion law

Planned Parenthood announced the opening of a new 18,000 square-foot clinic in Southern Illinois on Wednesday after more than a year of secretly building the facility.

The new mega clinic in Illinois is just 13 miles from Missouri's last remaining abortion clinic, located in St. Louis.

CBS News reports that Planned Parenthood used a shell company to build the massive facility, leaving no sign as to who was behind the operation.

Colleen McNicholas, chief medical officer of Planned Parenthood of the St. Louis Region and Southwest Missouri, told the news outlet that the facility was built secretively to avoid protestors and possible delays in construction.

"We were really intentional and thoughtful about making sure that we were able to complete this project as expeditiously as possible because we saw the writing on the wall — patients need better access, so we wanted to get it open as quickly as we could," McNicholas said.

CBS News reports it first visited the facility in August while it was under construction. The completion of the project comes as Missouri’s last abortion clinic is locked in a legal battle after the state’s health department refused to renew its license.

A law passed earlier this year in Missouri would ban abortions in the state after eight weeks, one of the most restrictive measures nationwide. A federal judge in August temporarily blocked the law.

CBS News notes that as several states have enacted more restrictive abortion laws, Illinois is trending in the other direction by expanding abortion access and loosening restrictions. The state earlier this year passed the "Reproductive Health Act" that establishes access to abortion as a fundamental right.

The new Illinois facility is expected to start taking patients later this month. McNicholas said she expects an influx of patients coming to the new clinic from Missouri.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch...ois-in-response

Trump-backed 'conscience' rule for healthcare workers voided by U.S. judge

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A federal judge on Wednesday voided a White House-backed rule that would have made it easier for doctors and nurses to avoid performing abortions on religious or moral grounds.

U.S. District Judge Paul Engelmayer in Manhattan said the so-called “conscience” rule was unconstitutionally coercive, by letting the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) withhold billions of dollars of federal funding from healthcare providers unless they complied.

“Wherever the outermost line where persuasion gives way to coercion lies, the threat to pull all HHS funding here crosses it,” Engelmayer wrote in a 147-page decision.

The judge also said the rule conflicted with federal laws governing the obligations of employers to accommodate workers’ religious objections, and hospitals to provide emergency treatment to patients who could not afford it.

Engelmayer’s decision covered a lawsuit by New York state and 22 other states and municipalities, as well as two lawsuits by Planned Parenthood and other healthcare providers.

HHS and the U.S. Department of Justice did not immediately respond to requests for comment. The rule was scheduled to take effect on Nov. 22.

U.S. President Donald Trump, a Republican, has made expanding religious liberty a priority, and the conscience rule has drawn support from abortion opponents.

Neither the office of New York Attorney General Letitia James nor Planned Parenthood immediately responded to requests for comment.

The states and municipalities have said the rule could undermine their ability to provide effective healthcare, and upset their efforts to accommodate workers’ beliefs while ensuring that hospitals and other businesses treated patients effectively.

Opponents of the rule have also said it could deprive gay, transgender and other patients of needed healthcare because providers might be deemed less worthy of treatment.

HHS countered that the rule would help enforce “conscience protection” laws that have been on the books for decades.

Engelmayer said these provisions “recognize and protect undeniably important rights,” but the government’s rulemaking “was sufficiently shot through with glaring legal defects.”

The state and municipal plaintiffs are led by Democrats or often lean Democratic.

They also include New York City, Chicago and Washington, D.C.; the states of Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia and Wisconsin; and Cook County, Illinois.

The states’ case is New York et al v. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services et al, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York, No. 19-04676.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-h...s-idUSKBN1XG2DD