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What are you two talking about? I made it clear I want Trump out.

I'm smart enough to know that electing someone who wants to punish white middle class America isn't going to win an election.

Do either of you two realize how many people did not vote for either Trump or Hillary last time? I was one of them. I was not going to vote for Trump under any circumstances and I was not going to punish my family's economic future by voting for Hillary and her punish the working folks so the lazy people who don't want to work prosper at our expense.

You two are too caught up in your extremism to even comprehend such a thing. I don't know what would be worse, having to listen to Trump's Policy of Hate and Bias or you two whining for another four years.

I consider him part of the left. The left is moving left. Biden is Obama/HRC 2.0, he could back him if he wants. But the left is finally moving left and that's a good thing IMHO. He wants to condemn dems for doing it, I condemn him for crying about it. That's all I'm going to explain to you because I don't give a damn what you think either because i hate everyone too.

I understand perfectly what you are saying. I got it the first few times you said it. I just don't agree. I think the shift left is good for dems and will be good for the middle class. I don't want a "don't rock the boat" status quo dem nominee, and don't think it will help trump win at all. What is going to determine this election is turn out, and who can give people hope for something better than Trump.

Yep, not trying to compromise or figure a common ground is the way to run a country. You scream about victimized portions being left out and not having a say, yet you literally again just stated you don't want to compromise, you don't want to have a middle ground, its your way or the highway...…

sounds a lot like a dictatorship to me.

So in a few post we have unraveled that you don't want anyone thinking unlike you, no one is allowed to speak against you, everyone has to agree with you, no one is allowed to compromise with the other side, and to damn to anyone that wants too.

You mean like the current admin is compromising? Kick rocks salt boy.

Well, there is a house that's controlled by dems, they have to or nothing is going to get passed - no?

SMH.

"Isn't it ironic...Don't you think?"

its like RAAAAAAIIINNNNN ON YOUR WEDDING DAY

Turning left isn't always a bad thing. Until you keep turning so far left you run into a building. That's why vehicles have steering wheels. So you don't create a huge accident turning too far in either direction.

You see I made 'salt' work...

So extremism on one side is the perfect excuse to use extremism on the other side? And you mean to tell me you can't see the irony in that?

Don't you know, your not allowed to question - Resistance is futile, says the Borg.

I've never permitted anyone to stop me from questioning either side. And I don't plan to change now.

Let me splain this to y'all that like the center compromising candidates. They are great when both sides compromise. The GOP hasn't compromised for years... hell they change the rules whenever they want (Garland), they block everything Dems send to them without offering a counter deal, they just want it their way or no way... Then when Congress reaches a compromise to do something good (Dreamers for the Wall $$$) Trump kills it trying to get more! There is no compromise and the right has drug the center to the right for 40 years!

So a far left candidate or at least a more left than center is exactly what we need. It's time to swing back toward the moderate left from GOPer madness.

BUT even if Bernie or any dem further left than him were to get in office, they still have a moderate dem congress and far right GOPer congress, so insane far left policies will be drug back to center if they are going to pass! Obama tried to fix healthcare, went in thinking single payer and GOPers drug that to the right with FORCED enrollment in higher premium plans all because they wanted to use it against dems later... Then people started liking it! smh

And I know he pushed Obamacare through with a super majority, but he had meetings with republicans in putting it together, then included insurance companies and Big pharma too... The only people who didn't get a say was THE PEOPLE.

Your side has literally convinced some of the other borg that chopping off your manhood and giving a 8 year old drugs to change their biological makeup is a normal thing.

"Believe me", the center has been driving to the right in America.

You are missing one key ingredient here. I'm not sure you will even be able to see it, but I'll give it a try anyway. So far you have made an attempt to say, "Well they haven't compromised on anything so..." From outward appearance it looks as though you are strongly suggesting that you actually have no problem with extremism, as long as it's your brand of extremism.

Let me tell you the only thing the vast majority of politicians care about. Being elected so they remain in power. Let's look at Republicans right now. I don't know if you have the mind set to see it this way, but I do...

I do not think many Republicans agree with Trump's way of talking, tweeting and many of the vile things he says. So why do you think they don't stand up against it? Because they see what has happened to everyone who has stood up to Trump when they face election time. They get squashed like a grape. So they feel keeping their jobs and staying in power requires they go along with it.

Now that is neither admirable, noble or putting your country first. But it is what it is. And to pretend it's any different with Democrats is only foolish thinking.

So what you're proposing is that Democrats go along with using very extreme social proposals. Proposals that may or my let you squeak by and win in 2020. But if you do win in 2020, it won't be because of those policies. It won't be because those policies will promote sustained success. It will be because moderates, independents and even some Republicans can't stand the ideas of another four years of Trump.

You will win do to default. The next election cycle, should Republicans actually run a candidate close to being sane and normal, you're big ideas will drown with a huge, loud thud. People won't be voting for a Democrat in 2020, they'll be voting against Trump.

So you have one of two choices. The first choice is to elect someone with a far left agenda which may get you the White House for four years, but will never get you re-elected. You'll try and adopt policies that the middle class voters overall will never support for the long haul.

Or you can elect someone that makes proposals that will help the same people you want to help now but does it in a more logical, common sense, moderate approach that may actually appeal to those voters which will cause you to be re-elected in 2024.

Somehow you have either convinced yourself or allowed influences to convince you that some far left agenda is a formula for sustained success. That you can control power long enough to actually make these things happen. That's simply not true.

The only thing that even gives you a shot in the short term is Trump. After that the average voter will spew your ideas out of their mouths like three day old coffee.

Unless they get single payer much cheaper much better healthcare. Unless they get more affordable college. Unless they get a livable wage. And what you call 'extremism' policy makes sense to a hell of a lot of people. Look I'll be fine if a center/moderate gets the nod, but I want a further left candidate, period.

Hell I'd be fine with Bill Weld winning TBH... But Trump must go. And in the process if we can get a champion for the working man in the Oval, I'd love it. Sick of the corporate sellouts.

Well, there's cheaper and better, which most everyone is for... Then there's trillions in tax increases to pay for it all which won't get you re-elected.

It depends what we're talking about. If you are saving money out of pocket but paying more in taxes, yet have a net gain at the end of the day... why would you not like the taxes?

Not everyone has kids in college. Not everyone who is healthy want to pay rates for the sick. You haven't been paying much attention to those who disagrees with those policies have you?

Read something yesterday in the Defiance Crescent. (a newspaper)

I won't have the numbers exact here, so don't quote me.

Something like 43% of Americans get their health insurance through work.


About 19% get it through medicare, and about 18% through medicaid.

I've heard you say 'medicare' for all. 1 payer.

How would that work if approximately 137,600,000 more people got added to medicare?

Keep in mind, the same number of people would be working and paying taxes. So, how could you add 137 million people to medicare, and have it be a viable thing without raising taxes, immensely?

Then, while I don't have the numbers......but what percentage of what doctors, hospitals, etc charge gets paid by medicare?

The trouble is, when the government's involved, the taxpayers are ALWAYS worse off. It's like the turnpike will have payed for itself in 20yrs and the tolls will be eliminated....then they kept the tolls to pay for upkeep, now taxpayers (through the gas tax increase) are helping to fund the upkeep. Then we had the lottery paying for the schools and we'd no longer have to tax the property owners. How's that going?

If you think we will be paying less in healthcare taxes than what we're now paying in insurance premiums...especially when more than half of the covered people will pay no taxes, you're living in dreamland. Let's throw a bunch of illegal immigrants into the system while we're at it.

Lol you guys believe in gay conversion camps. Shut it.

very small very extreme % of them do, yes.

just about every Dem I know believes chopping off your pp is a normal thing anymore.

You've got to be kidding me. Resorting to just making things up doesn't help the situation.

I know very few of anybody who considers it normal.

What I DO see is people upset over guys like YOU who what to demonize it.

You can’t cry about that surgery and not be upset that women are getting fake boob jobs. You just continuously come off as a hypocrite. One kind of surgery is fine while the other is not.

Yea, us liberals are more upset that you conservatives lack the ability to mind your damn business.

What did I make up, exactly?

Well, I guess if you only know two or three Democrats and they are in the far left fringe of the party it may be true.

And yet its the left that screams "SCIENCE" when it comes climate change yet says there are multiple genders and a males are females.

Someone changing their appearance is not he same as someone BELIEVING they are something they are not.

Is a trans person not trying to change their appearance when they get the surgery?

Lol bro you’re going nowhere fast.

your not following, they are not getting that surgery to look different, they are getting that surgery because they think they are something they are not biologically.

How do you know what they are? When did you decide you knew better than them?

Just honest questions here.

And Republicans believe in Newtons law until it comes to climate change.

Newtons third law.

"Every action has an opposite and equal reaction."

Suddenly, they think you can trash our air with pollution and there is no reaction.

I mean, if we're going to sit here and try to point fingers, let's face the fact those fingers need to be pointed in both directions.

you don't seem to understand - I don't care if someone cuts off their junk or gets junk put on. do you boo boo.

but don't expect the world to consider you something your scientifically and biologically not. your still a man or women.

Like women who get surgeries because they aren’t biologically hot? And the surgery now makes them feel as though they are?

Lol just stop it already. Mind your own freaking business. How bout that.

Science

And please don't bring up climate change, you can yell "science" about climate change, and then say a man is a women or a women is a man.

I didn't say any of that. I asked you how you knew. Isn't that what you've been complaining much of the afternoon that people have been doing to you? Claiming you said things that you didn't?



And I didn't bring up the subject of science and climate change. You did.

I think the healthcare tax is going to be handled like SS, so it will come out of everyone's pay regardless of income. Now for low income and those currently on medicare, they might pay less or nothing, but thats all the way I understood it 4 years ago.

I don't believe in chopping it off! smfh... But i don't give a damn if somebody else does.

Problem is, people that work are already paying into it. Those that don't, aren't.

Yet adding 137 million people with no extra infusion of money is doable?


I don't think you understand.