DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Our Division

I thought it was good, too. It had a lot of good talking points, but talking football isn't real big in this forum anymore.

Thanks for posting. Good read.

I worry a little less about the OL because anytime you have a QB who can roll out and throw well on the run, it makes the blocking easier.

You can even roll to the non throwing hand. The QB might have to reset, but that changes the whole pocket in the O-line favor.

Very subjective article, an enjoyable read. Thanks for posting that, and the issues that the writer mentioned: chemistry, big personalities, coaching, an OL that we aren't completely 100 per cent sure of, are legit.

I agree with you about a QB getting rid of the ball quicker really helps out an OL. But when it comes to a QB rolling out it's six of one and a half a dozen of the other.

That will certainly help the QB evade that initial tackle but at that point most of his blockers are facing forward and have no idea where the QB is. It actually makes their job harder at that point because they really have no idea what angle to take against their opponent or which direction they are headed to get to the QB.

I’m hoping that we work a great deal on moving the pocket ... I anticipate teams trying the Chargers game plan from last year to shoot routes early and force deflections/confusion

J/c

It appears like the best defensive player that they have returning had a productive off season and worked his arse off to improve ...

MICHAEL PIERCE
DL, BALTIMORE RAVENS

Ravens NT Michael Pierce, OLB Jaylon Ferguson, and DT Daylon Mack passed their physicals.

Pierce showed up to minicamp severely overweight with reports saying he looked "much heavier" than 340 pounds. The nose tackle has apparently got back into shape since, so he'll be out there for training camp after being removed from last month's program. Rookies Ferguson and Mack are expected to be depth options in 2019.


SOURCE: Jamison Hensley on Twitter
Jul 21, 2019, 8:18 PM ET

It's about that time ... my annual NFL record projections for all 32 teams: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf...ers/1681106001/ …

https://twitter.com/ByNateDavis/status/1153262036731813888

I dislike that.
We're again on the outside looking in with the Steelers at the top.

The only way we miss the playoffs is if Baker gets hurt.

I would NOT put the Jags in the playoffs right now ... and I wouldn’t put us in either.

I’d lean towards Baltimore and LA Chargers being the wild card teams if I were a betting man

So you have Pittsburgh winning the division?

And the rats finishing 2nd ahead of us .. ...

Its like nothing changed this offseason and the teams are the same as they were last year .. ...

J/c ..

I think the chargers will win the division ...

I like there team almost as much as i do ours ...

Lynn and there GM have done an outstanding job there ... there flying under the radar this year IMO ...

Anyone know what the odds are on them winning the division? ... maybe worth dropping a small wager on ...

I reckon the Chiefs would win the AFC West. The Broncos, Rats, Texans, Chargers, Jags, Titans, and Stoolers will all be duking it out for the Wild Card Spots. My favorites would probably be the Chargers and Texans


The NFL is competitive, the best thing you can do is win your division. And thats' what i expect us to do. We've got the talent, just have to put it all together

U reckon ... when did u move down south ... *L* ...

It should be a great race barring injuries ... i’m In the minority on the bolts winning the division ... i really like that team ... talent and coaching ... Lynn’s done a great job transforming that team ...

Well ... i forgot about Gordon holding out ... not gonna make that wager til we see how that plays out ...

I'm curious. You did not even bother to reply to my post that was a continuance of our conversation and not even a peep about the article that I posted that talked about a lot of the same things. Is it that you think that nothing else matters besides talent and those things are not important?

lol, do you like Anthony Lynn because he coached here?

The Chargers really surprised me when we played them last year. I do agree, they're very well coached. They play together. Seem to have a plan and go through with it. I had no idea how good they were, i really thought we were gonna win that game. Then they just molly-whopped us from the start.

I mean, Anthony Lynn has done a great job there.

But so has Andy Reid in Kansas City. That guy tends to win wherever he goes (just not the big one). Mahommes is young and already very good. Rivers is only going to get worse (or stay the same). Both teams are pretty loaded talent-wise though.


I guess it's closer than many might make it out to be, but keep in mind the Chiefs were real close to the Super Bowl. And i think they'd have beaten the Rams too.

I mean, heck, even us: Baker would have put up more than 3 freakin points on the Patriots

I understand its more than just talent ... I'm not a moron ... your question is phrased how i would word it to a menZa not someone whose football opinion i respected ... maybe u don’t respect my football knowledge anymore ... *shrugs* ..

I like the article ... i may have even liked it ... i thought i did but can’t remember ... very subjective ... i’ve made my feelings known about the coaching and everything else in the article many times ... didn’t feel like re-hashing it in here ...

*L* .. i didn’t even know he coached here before ...



I agree with a lot of what u just said ... and the fact Rivers no longer needs to be the entire O is one of the transformations Lynn along with the GM has made ...




The chiefs did not improve this off season ... they took some steps back words ...

The chargers only real losses were a corner back that was OK and Williams the WR ... well by the end of last year he was there #3 option and now that Hunter Henry (TE) is healthy he may dropped to the 4th option ...

And i think andy is overrated ... way overrated ... he is one of the greatest O minds ever IMO but i’d Take guys with Lynn’s philosophy over his every day of the week and twice on Sundays ...

I 100% get why u and many others are picking the chefs ...

The key to the bolts IMO is:

Does Gordon report on time ...

Can Bosa stay healthy ...

On a side note ... they now have one of if not the best back up QB in the nfl ...

J/C

Yes, I have Pittsburgh winning our division narrowly, and Baltimore getting the Wild Card over us narrowly. Just my opinion. I think our rookie HC is a liability off the bat and I’m still worried about our OL and LB corps.

Are we better than last year? Heck yes. But it’s unproven thus far of course.

I understand what you're saying. And being the OC isn't the same as being the HC.

But when looking at things in the last half of the season, we went 5-3.

That was without two major upgrades up front on D and OBJ. So as cautious as I would like to be, even if we didn't improve from the last half from last season, that would still be 10-6.

Yes, no doubt I feel the same way .. I’d also point out the teams we DID beat last year down the stretch weren’t exactly contenders:

Bengals x2
Falcons
Panthers
Broncos

And lets not forget the ass whoopin the rats put on us in a playoff game for them in week 17 ... that was one major lesson we learned that day ... ...

PS. The rats took not one but at least 2 steps backward on D this off season ...

I don't disagree with what you said but Mayfield was a rookie and we were only 8 Freddiw only called the plays for eight games. When combined with the additional veteran talent we signed, I would hope you would expect some improvement out of both sides of the ball.

Not saying I disagree. But you are also a debbie downer when it comes to the Browns. If you were a Steelers fan you'd probably pick the Browns to win the division. It's not the teams that drive your predictions. It's your affiliation. It's like a defense mechanism so you won't be let down. You over praise opposing teams and players and under praise your own.

No harm meant; it's just the way you're wired.

And in this particular case, I don't necessarily disagree with you.

I think training camp is going to tell us alot this year. I will feel more warm and fuzzy if Baker plays well in TC.

No doubt about it ... I have never had a Browns team that was successful. It’s like getting ready to be let down ... so for me, I have to believe it to see it.

Baker is clearly the key to it, as you stated. Also, I agree that we’ve improved our roster and we SHOULD be as competitive as anyone. If we aren’t, then it’ll be a big disappointment.

But for me to go my ENTIRE life with the Steelers and Ravens dominating us .... then to suddenly predict the opposite, would go against my gut haha.

If I thought you were a football moron, I wouldn't be asking you to respond.

Rehashing? We haven't discussed it once. All you ever do is talk about how talented we are and how everyone else in the division sucks.

You don't address the chemistry. You don't address the inexperience. You don't address the volatile personalities. You don't address the coaches being in new positions. You don't address the culture. You don't address learning how to win. You don't address our 0 and 3 record against winning teams after the coaching change. You don't address our 1-6-1 record against winning teams overall. You just talk about our talent and how no one else has talent. Over and over and over.

Rehashing? LMAO

You used to like to talk football. I miss that guy.

I ain’t changed a bit bro .... not one iota ...

I’ll be back to address what u brought up in here later tonight or tomorrow ... not gonna do the tit for tat thing over what i have and haven’t addressed ... don’t matter as i will address every point u brought up in here when i have the time ...

I know the rest of the division will take a step down and the under/over for the number of games Big Ben makes it through is about 6 in my opinion.

The question for me is if we step up on offense under the new system. I am pretty confident that we'll step up on defense, so we don't have to step up on offense a lot.

...

Ya .. I’M EXCITED ... but thats not all i talk about ... not even close ...

And i’ll Be dammed if after the last 20 years i’m going to scale back my excitement for u or anyone else that looks at everything that could go wrong ... i’m not doing that with this team ... cause this is DIFFERENT!!!



These guys like each other ... ALOT ... KJ has brought in guys with LIKE MINDS not jackasses like Jamie Collins or Kenny Britt and the primma donna’s of the league ... that wasn’t a shot at Sashi .. its recent examples of the types of players u don’t want on your team ... ALL the guys we brought in have great work ethics and know what this team can accomplish ... i would be shocked if there NOT ALL WORKING THERE ASSES OFF AND PUSHING EACH OTHER ..

U been in a lot of locker rooms .. HOW CONTAGIOUS IS THAT???

Richardson/Vernon/OBJ have GREAT ATTITUDES and only want to win ...

I’m not worried about the crap with duke ... not even a little bit ....i wanted Duke here ... he’s going to force his way out ... bye bye ... it’ll work itself out ... not happy but losing him won’t change my outlook for this team ...

I’m not worried about the rookies and their affect on team chemistry .. at least til next year ... *L* .. but look at them ... greedy showing up early and staying late since day 1 ... the rest are saying the right things like all rooks do ... on this team with its leadership ... if they need to pushed into place .. they will be ... look at the dudes KJ drafted last year ... forget their ability ...

Bake/Chubb/Ward ... GREAT WORK ETHICS and 100% team guys ...

KJ has built an ORGANIZATION (not just a team) all rowing in the same direction from the thief and Dee down to the janitors ... u ain’t read that from me before? ... i’ve Written it a dozen times ...

We have a TEAM that was put together with a purpose ...



Chubb and Ward got plenty last year ... as did Bake and i am a 3 year guy when it comes to QB’s .. but this cat is DIFFERENT ... i am not worried one little bit about bake especially with the toys he now has ...

Corbett ... yup ... he’s inexperienced ... i hope he wins the job so he can get some ... *L* ... the OL is my only concern ... we’ll talk more about that when i get to it ... well i just finished and when reviewing realized u didn’t specifically mention the OL ... that shocked me ... *L* ... we can talk about that later if you’d like ...

Who else has no experience? ...

I get this team hasn’t played together yet ... so their may be “chemistry/experience” growing pains there .. i get that .. I think were so talented we can win while growing ... we have EXPERIENCED VETS now in Richardson and Vernon ... and even VG and OBJ ...
if thats the type of experience or chemistry u were talking about ... check that box being covered also ...



Other than OBJ what volatile personalities u referring to? ... if its Bake ... we don’t agree ... not sure who else you’d point the finger at as far as who the other volatile personalities are ...

As for OBJ (i’m sure u don’t agree with me on that one .. *L*) ... if anyone can ever “calm” him its VG ... then if that don’t work we can try his college WR coach ...

I’m not worried OBJ this year regardless of what happens ... if we lose this year and start losing next year ... all bets are off with that cat ... he was a big part of the reason he was traded at all much less for pennies on the dollar ...

Let me know who the other personalities your referring to and i’ll gladly give my opinion .... i just hope u don’t give me cause for concern ... *L* ...



Freddie is ready ... just see my sig .. *L* ...

- freddies been grinding for 15 years ... wasn’t even on KJ’s radar when he was hired ... he impressed KJ so much in the building and in the first 8 games he promoted him to OC ... me thinks he was on KJ’s radar then and that was his audition ... he got the job ... he hasn’t changed ... love his EVERYONES INPUT PHILOSOPHIES ...

I’ve never been more comfie with a hire we’ve made ... KJ has a ton of experience and has learned from and been around some of the best ... FREDDIE IMPRESSED HIM ENOUGH TO GET THE GIG ... add to that he’s impressed players and coaches along the way ... and i’m talking the Tuna. Saban and Arians to name a few ... that don’t happen by accident and u know it ..

- the coordinators ... KJ/Freddie are straight shooters ... Monken/Wilks were what KJ/Freddie were looking for as far as coaching style/experience goes ... thats good enough for me ...

And again .. we have the talent to mask a lot of mistakes ... there will be some of those .. even Billicheck makes them ... but i am also betting with these toys on O .. barring injuries ... we will light it up and some records we can be proud of may fall ... were not used to being proud of the records we set ... *L* ...

I’ve posted my thoughts on Freddie and the rest way more than once ...



See rowing comments in the chemistry section ...



We started to learn how last year over the last 8 weeks and the talent we added will GREATLY REDUCE the rest of the learning curve ... *L* ...



Ya i have ... MULTIPLE TIMES ...

The chefs did not improve this off season ... WE DID BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS and not just in the talent we acquired but guys like Bake,Chubb, Avery and ward getting valuable PT and who knows what the other 2nd year guys will do ... does one of them blossom into a contributor .. u know how big KC losing Hunt is ... and the fact we got him makes it a DOUBLE WHAMMY FOR US ... *L* ...

We don’t play the bolts this year until the AFC championship game ... they scare me IF Gordon doesn’t miss more than 2 or 3 weeks of camp AND Joey stays healthy ... we can discuss that in the game day thread in late January ...

I’ve discussed the rats game a few times just in the last few days ... not going over that again ...



...



How’s that mirror working? ...

I know you directed the above to somebody else. I usually avoid these post that tend to become personal. So, excuse me for butting in.

I think each area you mention has some validity. What I don't know is: 1) Separately or collectively are they enough to prevent the team from having a successful season? 2) Which issues can the team actually control or have a meaningful impact on? 3) What priority does each issue deserve? Is there evidence these issues are being attended to within the organization and to what degree are they being resolved?

1) I think it would be fair to say that if all of these concerns were to trend toward the negative the season would most likely be a failure. The likelihood of that perfect storm seems remote to me. The organization has suffered significant dysfunction over many regimes but recent developments (hiring Dorsey and his front office team and a seemingly reduced amount of meddling by Haslam) at least give the appearance of stability.

2) I think the organization can have a major influence on chemistry, managing personalities and culture. There are signs all over the place that changes are being made. The reduction in mental errors/penalties in the second half of last year. Jarvis' "weak $hyt don't live here no more" speech, vets talking to Baker about Duke, D-linemen attending the pass rush summit, players deflecting the hype in the media, and Freddy emphasizing the lack of playoff experience on the team.

The team nor the players can do anything about last years record. I don't see the point in dwelling on it. The focus should be on preparation to play at a higher level this season. One example reported to us is how Callaway came back noticeably better conditioned than last season. The media singled him out but I find it hard to believe that commitment is limited to him alone. The amount of talent on the roster is going to force guys to elevate their play or risks not making the team.

It's too early to tell how all of the new coaching changes will work out. I think training camp, work in pads and preseason will give us a better gauge on that issue. Coaches with good reputations in football came to the Browns coaching staff. Stump Mitchell, Campen and Preifer are some examples.

3) I don't know that you can learn how to win in TC. I think you have to be in the thick of meaningful competition to be able to execute at a high level under tremendous competitive stress to become a winner. You have to push through adversity and draw on your preparation and be accountable to your teammates to do your job. That's a game day thing.

J/C

When it comes to volital personalities, maybe you could throw in Duke’s situation ... Landry, while being a competitor, could also be incendiary. And yes, Baker draws a LOT of attention, which could also be a concern. Also, Hunt is a controversial employee at this point too.

Not that I am, just saying it isn’t just OBJ

You completely misinterpreted my intent and decided to make it confrontational. I'm sorry. I will leave you alone.

You are not "butting in." I was trying to encourage football talk. I chose Diam because he and I used to be able to debate different sides of a topic w/out all the "feelings" getting in the way. I'm open to discussing this w/anyone who wants to rationally discuss it. It's something different than what has been going on here in the last few years.

I want to be clear about this. I am not predicting doom and gloom. I am just saying that there are other factors that go into becoming a winner other than talent. Talent is number one in my opinion, but it can not stand on it's own.

I think we could possibly succeed in all of those areas I mentioned. I'm NOT saying we will fail. I'm saying we don't know yet. Thus, I thought it was worthy of conversation.

I don't know if you read the article I posted earlier, but I think it was a nice, objective look at the team. The author addressed some of the things I have brought up. I think a couple of his facts were off, but they don't detract from the overall message. He is doing a report for each NFL team. I suspect he is has the same sub-headings for each team. That tells me that those things are important.

Here is a link to the article. Let me know if you want to discuss it further. I'm game and I am not wanting to argue one way or the other. Once again, I am NOT predicting that things will go badly. I just want to have an intelligent, rational discussion about all of these factors, and yes, talent is one of them. Btw--------I'm open to discussing this w/anyone who want to converse rather than win an argument.


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/2019-nfl-pr...-124057949.html

Reply to the football like u say u want .. u keep saying its what u want then u don’t reply to the football ..

U tell guard your trying to talk football ... well there was a HELL OF ALOT OF FOOTBALL in my reply ...

U CHOSE to ignore that and focus on me making it confrontational ... witch is BS ... u did that in your initial post to me ... But i could give two craps about that ...

I gave u a chance to talk football ... u CHOSE NOT TO .. and then u try to blame me ..

I made it confrontational ... ...

Items that could derail the season in order of importance -

1. Baker's play.
2. Injuries.
3. Kitchen's ability as a head coach.
4. OL play.
5. Kitchen/Monken relationship (my hot take is Monken will be gone at some point this season). Hiring an OC will be Freddie's first misstep.
6. Overconfidence.
7. Taking too long to gel.

How many of those are controllable? I don't know. Some may be controllable but not until the following season.

I am going to try and take a look at the subheadings that the author provided in that article. I'll try and do them in order.

Off-season Grade:

He gave us an A and I agree. Obviously, getting OBJ put us over the top. Hunt was a steal for us and should help down the stretch and hopefully in the playoffs. Vernon should help the DL a lot, but losing Zeitler is a tremendous blow. I'm not sure about that move. Greedy looks like a player. Our special teams are more talented. I didn't care for Ogbah for Murray trade. Richardson was a nice signing. I would have preferred Boston over Burnett at SS.

Reason for Optimism:

Talent. We have a ton of it.

Potential Problem:

I agree the OL, especially at RG, could be a problem. I also worry about Robinson. I also agree that there is concern about the place kicker. I think the lack of experience and lack of winning are potential problems. I also see that chemistry could be a problem, especially if one or two WRs become upset w/Baker at any point. Duke's situation could end up being a problem. High expectations are going to put a ton of pressure on the coaching staff and it could get ugly if we don't start well.

Quarterback Report:

Baker had a wonderful rookie year and I expect him to be even better. It's great not having to worry about the position for once. I do worry about his mouth rubbing teammates and opponents the wrong way. I also do not like our backups in the event that Baker gets injured. Overall, I feel good about this position because Baker is a young star.


Most-Important Non-QB:

I don't know the answer to this one. Myles, Chubb, our RG, our kicker, OBJ are all candidates. I'm going to go w/Freddie. He's got a lot on his shoulders.

Fantasy Take:

Baker should light it up this year.

Stat to Remember:

I think it's the 1-6-1 against winning teams last year.

Burning Question:

I agree w/the author that Chemistry is a question mark. I also think the coaching staff is a bit of a question mark.

Best Case Scenario:

The team gets off to a fast start which will help build relationships and confidence. The talent will be on full display. If that occurs, I believe we can be one of the better teams in the league this year and will be a force for years to come.

Nightmare Scenario:

Baker gets hurt is one. The other would be the team doesn't start fast and players start pointing fingers. An outraged media and fan base attack the coaching.

The Crystal Ball Says:

I am not one for making too many predictions because there are so many variables. I agree w/the author's choice of 10 and 6. I can see 11 and 5, also.

I look for us to do well this year.

I'm not going point by point, but here are my reasons:

Baker year 2.
OBJ
Chubb from game 1.
Hunt comes back after 8 weeks.
Better special teams play.
The DL.
What should be an improved secondary.

I am really not worried about Freddie. He has been an assistant head coach, last year and in Arizona. He has coached under Arians and Parcells. He has seen how to handle the top job. Many times the OC on a more traditional track gets so tied up in being the OC, that he can't break free to become the HC. I don't see that in Freddie. Reportedly he presented a plan forward for the Browns that won Dorsey to his side.

Freddie also has a huge advantage in Dorsey, who has shown that he can "fix on the fly". If we develop a problem area during the season, I am sure that Dorsey will scour the league to fix it.

Just my $0.0000000000134873625748 worth.