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I won't attempt to break down all of your points, but I will certainly address the points that I see as possible stumbling blocks and at least one that could go either way. Actually all of them could go either way.

The coaching staff.

People can say anything they want. I mean talk is cheap. But if anyone is wanting to be honest here, we've seen some of the greatest OC's and DC's in the NFL fall on their face as HC's in the league. Some step up and do well. Still others don't make the leap well. It's not some given as some wish to make it sound. It could certainly go either way.

As for me I think Freddie will do just fine. Diam brought up his work with some of the best in the NFL. Yet we've all seen how those "coaching tree" scenarios can play out. You never actually know how an OC or DC will translate to the HC position until they do it.

I think one of the biggest reasons I feel positive about Freddie is his demeanor. I know that may not fall into what some people call logic but for me it means a great deal. Freddie just seems like the type that doesn't allow stress and pressure to dictate his actions. One thing a leader needs is to be calm in the face of the storm. Often times I've seen perfectly qualified, new HC's let the pressure get to them and they seem to make moves out of desperation. I don't see that in Freddie.

We have new people at both OC and DC. As such, none of is really know how they will mesh when the pressure hits. It could end up being a good thing and it could end up being a bad thing. What I will say is that Freddie will still be calling the plays on O. So it's my opinion that the DC position will be more critical in this regard than the OC.

There are definitely concerns that are legitimate here whether one wishes to recognize them or not. I'm erring on the side of success but a lot of that is based strictly on optimism.

The OL

The OL is yet another concern. For the life of me I can't see Dorsey trading Zeitler without the coaching staff being confident that Corbett is ready to step in there. Further evidence for me is they didn't even seem to attempt to go out and sign anyone to fill the spot. So for me that's enough evidence to conclude that we will be fine at RG. Robinson is another matter all together. However, I do see him as serviceable and having a mobile QB certainly helps that situation.

Winning against winning teams

I understand your point here but I think things happen in stages. I don't think you go from a team that sucks to beating division winners all at once. It's the "crawl before you walk" theory. So while you are correct that we certainly didn't beat teams with a winning record, we went from beating nobody to beating average NFL teams. Considering a lot of our youth, Mayfield, Chubb and Ward were all rookies, I'd say that's a pretty good first step. With the addition of players like Vernon, Sheldon and OBJ, then you add another year of maturity from our rookies Mayfield, I think the next step in the progression is coming. That next step is to start beating winning teams.

Lastly I'll address the personalities of our players

And that's an odd topic actually. It's just a funny thing how personalities work. When you're winning it's all sunshine and roses. Only when your team is struggling do the demons come out. Dorsey has infused enough veterans on this roster that can hopefully help ease that if adversity arises, but I wouldn't bet that if we lose we won't see the rise in some of the "more vocal" personalities that exist within the locker room.

I mean how would you say???? If we start losing, the damage that happens within the locker room may be "self inflicted".

I mean a problem isn't a problem until it becomes a problem.

Freddie is Reddie

Good post Pit ... I agree about the coaching, OL, and learning to win as the big concerns (and I’ll add LB)

Good post. At least you are talking football. I have a question for you, though. When you guys respond to me, I get the feeling you think I am being negative.

I don't think predicting 10 or 11-5 is negative and I think I said a lot can go right. I did not concentrate on the negative. I am just acknowledging that there are some things that are unknown at this particular point in time.

Btw--------do you remember when Diam used to reply to posts like ours? I always enjoyed when a few or several of us were exchanging ideas. We didn't agree on things, but it was good football talk. I miss his takes, but I guess he prefers his "safe place" on his island.

Well we got 35 new threads on the Board, Wee Hee.


THE REDSKINS RELAESED THEIR STARTING MLB TODAY, err I heard something like that.

Mason Foster, iirc.

How would signing this guy help the Browns in their chances to win the division this year.

I'd kinda like to see the Browns sign this guy at a position of need.

Sorry Kneed. sorry Knead

Actually, Not having to put the seasons' outcomes in the very capable yet not yet proven hand of Taylor, and Taki Taki, among others, Kirksey and Schobert, sounds appetizing.

Yeah, why not

The Redskins just Released their Starting Line Backer YO! We gotta get this guy!


I don't know anything about him, baHaaaaa!

I am feeling a lot of what is posted here from each of you. i am the definition of "lurker" I am on this board religiously daily just to read your takes and formulate some of my feeling based on the amazing points you and others bring up. There is a lot of hype around this team and I understand why. IMO, that is what is making you feel like the football talk has died down Very. It has, absolutely, but it is because the hype is real, and warranted.

How will it all turn out? N one knows, but I do know that we have a ton of talent. We have way more experience on this team than we did last year as well, not only with the people we brought in but also the development of last seasons rookies. They got unmeasurable experience playing through what could have been turmoil based on the way the middle of the season went. Instead they grew up and gave the entire world a glimpse of what could be with this team.

Then..we go out and add OBJ, Hunt, Vernon, Richardson, and a few other new faces. Yes we lost some at the same time, but in the end did we get better overall? I think we did.

A lot of questions are there for sure. I am not going to go into each individual concern you have mainly because I would probably be here all night typing and that would not make my kids or wife happy lol. I will bullet pointy some thoughts tho...

-The Chemistry. I am not too worried about it. This team is focused and is using the hype from the way they finished last season and the way they have improved as motivation. I personally think the veterans that were added will be fueled by the fire of the young stars here. energy is contagious, having someone like Baker, Chubb, Ward, Garrett, and now Greedy fires up everyone else around them. It reinvigorates their desire to be the best teammate they can be.

-Coaching. I have to tell you this was a big concern of mine after we hired Kitchens. Listening to him talk, and seeing how he interacts with the player has lightened my concerns though. I think he has some great Assistants around him and i am not just talking about the actual coaches. I see Freddie s a guy who listens to his players and makes adjustments based on what they see. I see Baker, Chubb, Ward, and Garrett being heard by him and that will make him a better coach with in game adjustments. He seems like a player coach to me.

-TRhe hype. I agree with you. How we start is going to be a defining point of our season. To keep the pundits and fans happy, we need to win early. This is my biggest concern. I think based on the skill, talent, and experience we have, we will be fine. This is the biggest concern for me however. How do we look early on? Will it take time for us to gel? It could, but is our talent all across the board enough to overcome it?

Wow this might be the most I have ever typed on here lol. I just did a bit of a brain dump. A lot more up there, but will keep it there for now...

Nice job, bro.

Win the opener and it starts on the right foot.

The critical game in so far as setting the tone.

Nice post Kash, and yes, please post more! I felt the same way about our talent: the most we’ve had since I’ve been a fan ... we really have the best chance to be a good team in 30 years

I'm really not going to get into what's going on between you and Diam. That's between the two of you and I never ask you to get involved in my skirmishes.

And as far as you being negative. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I can see your side and why you have your concerns. I don't really perceive that as negative. I feel far too many overlook the possibilities of the things that can go wrong. However, I just gave my opinions on some of your main points and most of those opinions show that it could go either way.

I agree with your general premise that talent alone won't solve all of the issues it takes to make a playoff team. And I feel your season prediction is strong evidence that you feel the questions you brought up won't be a serious hindrance in the Browns success.

I know that Diam and I had a bit of a disagreement about Baltimore's secondary. I said they were elite and I think he said they were mediocre or something like that.

PFF recently ranked the secondaries, and the Ravens are ranked first overall. The Browns are ranked ninth, which is pretty darn good considering where the unit was just a 2 years ago.

Here is the link: https://www.pff.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-secondaries-ahead-of-the-2019-nfl-season

Do the Cleveland Browns' have the best roster in the division? -- Final AFC North Rankings
By Jake Burns

https://expo.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-2...h-rankings.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Our AFC North position rankings have tracked each group on both sides of the football from quarterback all the way to special teams. Now we'll examine how the Browns stack up overall.

First the offense where Cleveland had an advantage:

AFC North quarterback rankings
AFC North running back rankings
AFC North wide receiver rankings
AFC North tight end rankings
AFC North offensive line rankings
The defense and special teams were much tighter as there was was minimal difference in the total unit rankings:

AFC North defensive line rankings
AFC North linebacker rankings
AFC North defensive back rankings
AFC North special teams rankings
In this system we have ranked each position group from one to four and we will assign points accordingly. If a team is first in the rankings, they receive four points in the system and if the team comes in last, they receive just one point.

Let's tally up the numbers and see which roster is the most suited to win the division.

4. CINCINNATI BENGALS
Ranking total: 19 points

Best position group: running back, wide receiver -- 3 points each

Worst position group: tight end, offensive line -- 1 point each

The Bengals are going through a major transition for the first time in nearly two decades.

Gone is long-time coach Marvin Lewis and in comes Zac Taylor. With Taylor comes a young innovative offensive mind who will aim to use the Bengals' exceptional skill position talent at wide receiver and running back to produce enough points to overcome a below-average defense.

The problem is the Bengals lost their best offensive lineman and boast the division's worst unit up front by a wide margin. The defense has talent, but they are too thin at important positions like linebacker and in the secondary.

The Bengals will have to claw their way out the division's basement, but that seems unlikely in a division loaded with more complete rosters.

Record prediction: 4-12

3. BALTIMORE RAVENS
Ranking total: 20 points

Best position group: tight end, secondary, special teams -- 4 points each

Worst position group: quarterback, running back, wide receiver, defensive line, linebacker -- 1 point each

The Ravens have gone through a transitional phase on both sides of the ball that has been roster-focused. The coaching staff remains in tact, but the players within have shifted.

Many of the franchise's staple players have moved on, but on the fly the Ravens have reshaped their quarterback and scheme around him. The offense will be a work in progress, but the direction of the system and talent is without question.

The defense has shifted from a dominant front and linebackers, to as good a secondary as there is in the NFL, and is aiming to shut down the passing game to keep pace in the modern NFL.

The Ravens will still have a tough front seven despite the low rankings, and will be in competition for the league's best defense. John Harbaugh wouldn't have it any other way.

However, the transition the Ravens find themselves in likely doesn't have enough offensive firepower to compete with the top two teams in the division, and they will need to keep adding to that side of the ball in the coming years.

Record Prediction: 8-8

2. PITTSBURGH STEELERS
Ranking total: 25 points

Best position group: quarterback, offensive line, defensive line, linebackers-- 4 points each

Worst position group: secondary -- 1 point

The Steelers return off a disappointing 9-6-1 finish in 2018 that resulted in missing the playoffs. Mike Tomlin returns as head coach and brings back the majority of his staff.

Despite the loss of Antonio Brown, the Steelers still have JuJu Smith-Schuster and some developing talent at the position to attempt to make up for Brown's loss. The offense might take a step back, but that can still be one of the league's more productive groups.

The defense has the best front seven in the division and perhaps the NFL. Led by Cam Heyward and T.J. Watt, they have led the NFL in sacks the past two seasons. The secondary is a major issue that could fester into a season long issue, but they will attempt to make life tough for opposing offenses up front to keep their secondary from trouble.

The Steelers are favored by many for the division title heading into 2019, and it is a fair choice to make. Between their group and Cleveland's the split is marginal, but the loss of Brown and the secondaries uncertainties will end up costing them in a close division battle.

Record Prediction: 10-6 (Wildcard)

1. CLEVELAND BROWNS
Ranking total: 26 points

Best position group: running back, wide receiver -- 4 points each

Worst position group: special teams -- 1 point

The tale of the tape for the Browns is they boast the division's best positional depth across the board. Outside of the special teams ranking, they don't finish last in any one department.

The skill group directed by Freddie Kitchens is one of the league's deepest and most talented and should help quarterback Baker Mayfield take his talent to the next level. The offensive line could be a problem, but the way it finished 2018 could mean the progress within the scheme can make it work as a cohesive unit.

The defense has clear strengths in the defensive line and secondary, and if the linebackers can be just average, the unit could be one of the league's most improved under the direction of Steve Wilks.

Mike Priefer should drastically improve the special teams, one of the league's worst-ranked units in 2018, but the kicker situation will need to be solved.

Overall, the Browns' talent and lack of an apparent positional weakness should mean the division's most complete team on paper.

Things don't always go as planned when studying the rosters on paper. But the mixture of a talent infusion, competent coaching, and a quarterback ready to break out means the Browns have the division's best roster from top to bottom.

The Browns should be favored to win their first division title since 1989, and appear in the playoffs for the first time since the 2002 season.

Record Prediction: 11-5

If it makes u feel any better i disagree with PFF also ... *L* ...

If u remember ... i actually ended that convo saying I may be underestimating there secondary and would pay more attention to it this year ...

We’ll see how good they are this year ... they will have to “play better” just due to the loss of the entire pass rush ...

I’m sure we both hope their even worse than I think ...

I didn't mean that as an insult although it probably came across that way. I promise that was not my intent. I was just using it to set up the rankings.

I actually wanted to put that article in one of threads about Analyzing position groups, but there were separate ones for safety and corners and not one for just the "Secondary."

WOW ... MG has a huge smile on his face right now ... this is gonna help week 1 ...

TAYLOR LEWAN
T, TENNESSEE TITANS

NFL suspended Titans LT Taylor Lewan four games for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.

In a video posted to Twitter, Lewan claims to have unknowingly taken the substance and says he took a polygraph test to prove his innocence, which he allegedly passed. Still, the NFL doesn't care about a polygraph. The Titans have one of the best offensive lines in football, anchored by Lewan and new LG Rodger Saffold. Dennis Kelly will likely slide in at left tackle in Lewan's absence. The good news is Kelly is one of the better swing tackles in the league. This locks Jack Conklin in at right tackle.

Jul 24, 2019, 2:09 PM ET

Does that take into effect rolling coverages? Just saying, you cant bash analytics and then try to use it to back your side of an argument.

That’s a big loss for the Titans week 1 ... Lewan is a very good OL and a key cog to their offense

Pasztor

I wasn't "bashing" analytics. WTH are you talking about? I was talking about Landry being a good WR and only posting some of the stats and ignoring the words of a guy like Bill Belichick is fool-hardy.

Btw------what does rolling coverages have to do w/ranking defensive backfields?

And since will made up yet another lie, I guess I have to say this for the umpteenth time. I think analytics are great. I used them in education and sports when I was coaching. I think they are a tool to be used to help your team. What I don't like is when posters refuse to post all the stats and only concentrate on a few and then say things about Landry's hands. Anyone who has watched football KNOWS Landry has great hands. I also don't like guys pretending they know more about the game of football than Bill Belichick just so they can win some stupid argument.

But again, I approve of analytics and I am sick of people just fabricating stuff to cause trouble.

You do realize you just did that twice in your post?

And the hits just keep on coming ... great start to your career young man ...

ORLANDO BROWN
T, BALTIMORE RAVENS

Orlando Brown Jr. did not practice on Thursday due to a failed conditioning test.

That's a rough start for a third-round rookie. Brown had a disappointing run at the combine to cause him to slide, and there were some concerns about his weight this offseason. Coach John Harbaugh didn't sound too concerned, so maybe Brown can get it going later in camp.

SOURCE: Jamison Hensley on Twitter
Jul 25, 2019, 1:21 PM ET

And then two blurbs down .... ...

SHANE RAY
LB, BALTIMORE RAVENS

Shane Ray didn't practice on Thursday because he failed the conditioning test.

Injuries have been a problem for the 2015 first-round pick, which may have been part of the reason the Broncos didn't bring him back this offseason. The 26-year-old pass rusher hasn't turned the corner after a strong rookie campaign and Ray is not off to a great start on his new team.

SOURCE: Jamison Hensley on Twitter
Jul 25, 2019, 1:17 PM ET

Lol lots of pizza and fries eaten in Baltimore over the past few months

Orlando Brown is a rookie?

He was drafted in 2018,I don't think he's a rookie.

LOL........I know. My reply was sarcastic.

j/c:

Same foot he injured last season IIRC

j/c:

For years, when a person tried to make a comment on a first or second or even a third year qb, they would be shot down quickly by other posters who said "you can't evaluate a qb until he has played three full years in the league."

Well, those posters don't say that anymore and I have no idea why.

Anyway, here is an article on Lamar Jackson who has already been written off by some who used to preach the three-year thing.



For the record, I am not predicting success for Lamar or failure for another young qb that some have said is better than a HOF qb he's been compared to.

It's just that.............I'm just sayin'...

The team, coaches and fans all have to be 'all in' on Jackson. They have no other choice, at this point. I say he has a better chance of getting beaten to a pulp than becoming a true pocket passer.

I hope I'm right.

Not because I want to see him hurt, but because I want him to fail due to the team he plays for.

Good point lamp .. Jackson’s style means that the entire organization has to be shifted in philosophy. You go from Flacco to him ... everything must be in that direction

LAMAR JACKSON
QB, BALTIMORE RAVENS

Told Cam Newton's career-high is 139 rushing attempts, Ravens coach John Harbaugh said "take the over" for Lamar Jackson this season.

Jackson averaged 16 attempts per game after taking over the starting job last season, playoffs included, a number which would put him at 256 over a full season. The Ravens have hinted they plan to scale back those attempts moving forward, but Jackson running the ball has to remain a major part of their offense. Currently being drafted outside the top-15 quarterbacks, Jackson was the QB5 after taking over the starting job last year.

SOURCE: Aditi Kinkhabwala on Twitter
Jul 29, 2019, 8:42 AM ET

He was on pace for 256 carries last year ... thats more than some starting running backs got ... *L* ...

Do you know what the Ravens' record was w/Jackson as the starter?

No clue ... nor do i care ...

Freddie said it ... i don’t care about yesterday much less last year ... last year has NOTHING TO DO with this year ...

Even though i don’t care ... i’ll play cause there’s a few other valid points to be made here ...

I'm not sure what their record was with him as a starter .. i do know it was real good ... one of it not the best in the nfl over that span ... they played EXTREMELY WELL with him as thier stater last year ...

Now ... my turn to pose a few questions .... usually i ask to learn, not this time ... *L* ...

- they played SD in week 16 (game # 15) and the SD D had no answer for Lamar .... what happenend a mere two weeks later when they playedand SD made adjustments? ...

- in week 17 there O dominated us in the first half .. in the 2nd half they were basically COMPLETELY SHUT DOWN ...

So how did their O perform in the last 6 quarters of last year with Lamar at the helm and after there was plenty of tape on him? ...

i’ve said it since day 1 ... IF and thats a big IF Lamar can learn to throw even well below average he will last as long as he stays healthy and be UNSTOPPABLE .. we’ll see how much progress he’s made in about 6 weeks .... IF he can throw the ball good enough then we’ll see just how long he can stay healthy ...

To be fair ... the rats have done a GREAT JOB bringing in coaches and players to help him ... Roman is a genius and one of if not the best at utilizing QB’s whose skill set lends itself to running ... bringing in Ingram will help as long as there’s not 8 or 9 in the box every play .. *L* ..

The other thing that even if he does pass “well enough” this year that will hinder him and the team is the age/experience level of the recieving corps .... its going to consist of two rookie wide outs and either one or two second year TE’s ...

This is the 2019 season .... THANK GOD we finally have something to look forward to ... our disagreements are over much more positive things now ... *L* ...

Damm ... where’s tabber been ... its been a few days ... hope he’s OK ...

What was it? I don't think you can take him lightly, but I think once teams figure him out, his success will be limited. He's like a Vick/Tebow hybrid imho. Runs great, throws so so, but can make enough quality passes to be a threat. Will not be able to take the physical beating year in and year out to have a long career unless he can develop his true QB skillset.

The other thing about the Rats: their WRs don’t strike fear in me. That comes into play when we now can put our cbs on an island and put more guys in the box

The Rats were 4 and 5 w/Jackson on the bench. The Rats then went on to go 6 and 1 w/Jackson as the starter. They won the division and beat us to do so.

I am not praising Lamar, but to laugh at him and act like he can't improve is silly. You were one of the guys I was talking about who constantly preached about not evaluating a qb until AFTER his third year. Do you remember our conversations about Timid, Brady, Weeden, and Kessler? You have abandoned that philosophy. I have no idea why. LOL

Alright, I will answer your question.



First off, no one had tape on him while he was going in the 7 games he played during the regular season?

But yes, you are right. The Chargers made him look bad for most of that game in the playoffs. They limited what the Rats could do. Sound strategy.

How do we know that Baltimore and Jackson can't adjust now that they have had time to study how LA shut them down?

Bottom line for me. I doubt Lamar is going to be great or that Baker will regress, but it's kinda early to make definitive statements about either.

I have always agreed w/guys like you and GM who said you can't fully evaluate a qb until after their third year. Where I disagreed is that it was wrong to evaluate what we have seen during that time period.

Thus, I think Baker looks like he is going to succeed and the chances for Lamar succeeding are not as good. But, it isn't time to make a definitive statement, bro. And it's stupid to ignore the team going from having a losing record pre-Lamar to going 6 and 1 w/Lamar.