DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Sashi Brown: Discuss Here

I am estimated about 14000 NFL games have been played since 1920. Hue Jackson was able to win 3 of them as a HC for our team.

I don't care how bad a team is. Statistically speaking, he should have randomly won 4 games in the span he was a coach.

But he was a "leader of men" and a "great motivator" to some.

Let you in a little secret, a great motivator does more with less. So to be a great motivator in the NFL, regardless of how bad the talent was - we should have got better even marginally. We did not. You cannot argue the roster when the roster he was given never got better after the fact. The roster sucked yes, but it never got better because he stunk as a coach.

And the only one actually brought to us by Sashi was Hogan, who was acquired off waivers when RG3 went down.

RG3 was a Hue decision.
McCown was signed by Farmer.
Kizer and Kessler were drafted by DePodesta and the scouting department with approval from Hue.

And sashi brown was 0 - 24 or worse... they were a heck of a tandem ...

Again ... your defending your boy sashi with how bad hue was ...thats a weak ass defense bro ...

go wizards ...

Im not defending sashi, because I don't like hue doesn't equate I like sashi. You guys don't seem to get this.

Shashi was garbage
hue was even worse

I will say though, sashi a better GM than Hue was a coach. He at least drafted guys that are still in the league - but they had to leave hues coaching to do so.

So one was hot garbage and one was cold garbage?

I guess you measure garbage by degrees.

Why can't you just fess up and say they both sucked?

People act like it was Hue who signed off on the QB's. Sashi had to sign off on every move we made.

People need to stop with the. "My garbage was better than your garbage" BS.

I 100% get it mr smarty pants ...

Ya .... both his QB rooms i believe are all in the nfl but one ... McCown retired ... they’ve all gone on to STELLAR careers since leaving Hue .... ...

I’m out ...

I wish I could produce a big red X and loud buzzer sound whenever someone brings up either the Roster or the Record when it comes to arguing Sashi. He was executing a 5 year rebuild where the first two years were to scrap down the roster and amass as much draft capital and tradable assets as he could to make the team actually attractive to a potential GM. By that metric, and that metric only, people give kudos to Sashi for doing a good job.

I don't know how many times we need to explain it. For the first two years his goal was not to win games. It wasn't to build a formidable roster or give out big contracts to guys that would net a few more wins but ultimately be off the team by year 4 or 5. Losing wasn't the goal, but winning wasn't really the goal either.

His goals were to:
1) Clear cap space
2) Have an abundance of high draft picks
3) Have trade-able assets

... so that by Year THREE, all of those could be used to build a good team. With those goals in mind, can anyone say he did a bad job?

And if your response involves the words "roster" or "record", you're bringing up a straw man and you get a big red "X".

Again, Diam..your missing the point.

They are still in the league, and more than likely are better after leaving hue than being under his "coaching".

Im not saying Sashi is a gm of heroes, but he did hit a couple guys. Hue hit on zip, 0, nothing.

The straw man argument is "He was paid to make us suck"

Yet he won more games with Dorsey's first year roster than he did the entire year before with Sashi's roster. Hmmmm....

It is. So why do you keep making it?

I wasn't the one making it.

You are too ... you are claiming that people are arguing that "he was paid to make us suck", which nobody has said.

It's an oversimplification of what I said, and a false dilemma at best. I said his job was to amass assets and put the team in a good position to build in Year 3. Like you always do, you've converted that to the strawman of "His job was to make us suck", which is what nobody has argued. If that was really his job, then Dorsey would have passed on a situation with no draft assets, no cap space and no easy way to build a team.

The reasons you posted have ALWAYS been the excuse of why we sucked when Sashi was in charge. Where the hell have you been?

Let me keep this simple for you:

Sashi's goals for his first two years were to:
1) Clear cap space
2) Amass an abundance of high draft picks
3) Amass trade-able assets

Did he do those three things? Try to answer that without attempting to rephrase what I'm saying.

Yes he did. Now let me pose a question to you.

If you gut your teams talent, refuse to address the QB position, constantly trade down in the draft, how could you avoid accomplishing those goals?

You have to consider everything and not look at things in a bubble.

It's like saying he drafted Kizer on purpose because he knew Kizer was a terrible QB. Because had Kizer have been better, we wouldn't have had that high of a draft pick.

So was it really Sashi that netted us Mayfield, or was it Kizer? Or is it your contention that Sashi meant to draft a QB that sucked in round 2?

Got it.

Great! I guess we can end the thread now, because that's all "pro-Sashi" people have ever argued.




You don't, and that's sort of the point. Trying to plug holes in the middle of a rebuild is sort of like throwing up drywall while you're tearing the rest of the house down. Drafting a QB that may or may not bust while you're trying to piece the rest of the team together accomplishes what? And if you're really loading a team up for a real GM to take over in Year 3, what good does tying him to a QB he may not like really do?

Same thing for free agent talent. When you're goal is trying to maximize cap space for year 3, what good does signing up free agents do when the aim isn't necessarily to win right now? For the chance that he stays worth the money and useful in Year 3? Otherwise, you're tying your GM to another player and a chunk of cap-space.

Most moves that Sashi seemed to make were with those three goals in mind. Drafting Kizer was likely because he was a potential first round talent that fell to the second round. There's some trade value in that. We ended up flipping him for Damarious Randall. Trading for Brock Osweiler wasn't because we wanted a sucky QB to drag us down, it was for the 2nd round pick that came with him, basically for free. That netted us Nick Chubb. Passing on Carson Wentz wasn't because we wanted to avoid winning. It was likely because we didn't want to risk tying ourselves to an unknown commodity could have been a complete bust by Year 3 of the rebuild. Instead, we got a pile of assets that ended up turning into guys like Kindred, Kizer (Randall), Peppers (OBJ) and Ward.

Some people can't see very far down the road.

I admire your persistence to argue with them. I'm starting to realize they are either just trying to argue just to argue or they really don't get it.

I mean, Sashi's plan obviously worked or he wouldn't have been hired by the Wizards. They've already lost the argument that Sashi won't ever get another front office job in sports. He's got one now.

Things they will never understand... Sashi wasn't hired to be the GM in Cleveland. He wasn't here to be the talent evaluator. And as much as some of them want to make up that Sashi was hard to work with, nothing could be further from the truth. These are the facts they continue to ignore, and when these facts are ignored, they will never "get it."

And when someone says Sashi "didn't address the quarterback position," it pretty much shows they have no idea what they are talking about. It's just another agenda driven lie.

And yet he wound up with the final say on talent as the Browns' ..... well, whatever title he finished up with here.

Who is Sashi Brown, the Cleveland Browns' new executive VP of football operations? - cleveland.com
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2016/01/who_is_sashi_brown_the_clevela.html





Except, I cannot recall us hiring a GM under Brown. We hired a VP in charge of player personnel in Andrew Berry. Was he even the de facto GM? No.

In fact, he just left the Browns for a promotion ... to assist the Eagles' GM.

Browns personnel exec Andrew Berry takes promotion with Eagles - cleveland.com
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/02...ith-eagles.html







Sashi Brown was the GM, (even without the title) with the final say over the roster. He didn't have the title GM, but he had the powers of the GM, and he exercised those powers in his time in charge of football operations with the Browns.

STRAW MAN ARGUMENTS ... ...

PS. those of us rooted in reality call them FACTS ...

I don't disagree with the things you posted. What I said was that Sashi wasn't hired to be the GM and Sashi wasn't the talent evaluator. If you want to call him the de facto GM, that's fine. Doesn't change that the things I said are facts.

Maybe he wasn't hired to be those things, but he absolutely took on those roles.

It's like saying "John drove the car, but he is not the driver."

Or it's like calling you the bus driver, because you're taking him to school.

Not quite.

I don't believe he took on those roles. I believe as intended when hired, the lot of them assessed the team needs and what direction to go. There was no true GM, or no "John Dorsey" running the ship. If there was, that man was Jimmy Haslam.

Sashi wasn't a true GM. He knew he had no experience at coaching or talent evaluating so he left things like that up to the people who were hired to do it and only stepped in it when there was a disagreement. Sashi was just the overseer.

j/c:

People are forgetting Andrew Berry and his team of scouts were the main talent evaluators. But yes, Sashi made the final call on whether to choose a player, trade up/down, etc.

And decision maker ( to be fair) based on all available information as it pertained to the plan aka the points Excel referenced in a earlier post

Some of those decisions didn't work out but most were good, IMO.

If that were only true.






So you think Sashi drafted a crappy QB in round two, wasting that pick on purpose. You realize that even you could have done that, right?





Yeah, Kenny Britt was a wasted signing on purpose. You could have done that too.



You've made more excuses for Sashi than I can count.

Do you really expect anyone to take this BS seriously?

You're stating that he did things even THROW LONG could have done.

I think everybody in the circle knew they couldn't attract a "real" GM when the plan was to bottom out, so they went with what they had. Brown was only the decision maker if people in the draft room couldn't agree on a player. When one group wanted player A and another wanted player B he listened to both and had to cast the deciding vote.

They also thought they had the perfect coach in Hue, but it became clear he wasn't anywhere near good as a head coach and he began to bail on the plan, pointing fingers, etc.

Sashi got a top level job doing what he does best. Hue does nothing best and is still on the sideline.

In my book, you can't discuss Sashi without discussing Hue, so maybe we should focus on his sorry butt for a few weeks if constant rehash is what you guys want to do.

Where have you been Peen!?

People have been focusing on his butt ever since he left. Including our QB.

I'm not sure how you missed it.

No man, read the thread.....it all about Sashi, so now I turn it to the crappy head coach in the NFL ever.


Hue....LOL....I'll stop

Well it is a Sashi thread. I guess we could be talking about animals on the endangered species list too.

2-5-1 baby! Wooohoooo!

Weird that as soon as a never before OC and defunct DC took over, our offense was one of the best in the league, and our guys actually started to show development. hmmmm

J/C

I think its weird that the second you say something negative about baby-Huey a few posters instantly start screaming "it was sashi's fault!"

Cause yeah, it was Sashi's fault Hue stunk before he was here, while he was here, and after he was here.

Sashi is not here for a reason. He stunk. But to say Hue was a good coach and Sashi was the only reason he stunk as a coach is not only laughable, but down right idiotic. There is a reason Hue was fired from two teams in the same year (at least he has one NFL record).

Could you please name the posters who said this? Because there weren't any. You're just making BS up.

Let me tell you what "people said" so you can hopefully get it right next time.

People said that the roster that Sashi put together was not a competitive roster. Something you seem to agree with since you said, "Sashi is not here for a reason. He stunk."

What people said was the Hue deserved a shot with a roster that had talent he could win with. You know, a fair shot.

Now let me ask you who stood up for Hue after he did so poorly with the roster Dorsey put together? I got news for you, you won't hardly find anyone, if anyone who did.

You can just make up some revisionist history if you like, but it's a lie.

Crap statement. you know very well what someone kept saying that hue was a "great motivator" and a "great coach" and he shouldn't have been fired because of the roster he was given.


Don't play coy now.

He had a very fair shot. Name me one other coach that would have had a job after 1-31. None. Hue was given a shot and went 2-5-1 with the same team that won 5 games as soon as he was crapped canned.

Revisionist history? Go to the Hue was fired thread and see the comments. They are there for you, all of us remember.

Hue Jackson's excuse was Sashi Brown, and he was embarrassingly wrong.