DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Film Room: Browns Defense

Biceps tear is a weird injury. A buddy of mine had the same injury (torn at the top of the muscle... may or may not have been a clean tear). There's pain/discomfort, and some loss of function, but beyond that it's not that big a deal. You can elect to have surgery to reattach, or you can elect not to. IIRC, you really don't feel the effects of this injury, either way, until you're much older.

and ogbah has been playing with a bad ankle all year too

Where do u get this stuff from? ... thanks BTW ... I LOVE what u post ... thanks for that ...

Any chance u can provide a link ... just would like one so i can go check the place out .. *L* ..

Seriously though .. a link would be great if possible ...

Thank u sir ...

j/c...

#NoRealPlayers
#JustLookAtPitsSig

Wah. Stalker.



Sounds like you need to e mail Dorsey about it.



Quit whining.

Twitter.com

Great read on Larry Ogunjobi:

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/sports/g6...-film-room.html

Nice. Thanks for sharing. We're so close to having an elite D.

Love Ogunjobi. The best part of his great plays is the mean mug of the camera after.

"I'm a bad, bad man. "

It will be a wonderful thing to have another bad ass in the middle of the defensive line.

I think we have 11 picks. It wouldn't bother ne if we only drafted 5-6 players. Maybe use 3 picks to trade up and trade a few to use next year.

I think we might see Dorsey trade at least one or two of the mid round picks for current NFL players. It's something we've seen before.

That would work too. We are getting to the point where 11 rookies won't be making the team. We already have some guys from last years class he seems to like.

Use some to trade for a middling vet, trade up in the draft, and or trade some for a pick next year. We could probably trade two 5th rounders this year for a 4th rounder next.

I tend to be one of Schoberts harshest critics on this board, but to be fair... Marshawn Lynch is not an easy back to take down. And I dont' recall a lot of missed tackles from Joe. I could be wrong though.

j/c:



14. CLEVELAND BROWNS

The Browns have the potential to end up a lot higher on this list when all is said and done. We’re particularly excited to see what Myles Garrett and Larry Ogunjobi are capable of when not forced to play every single snap. Garrett earned an 80.2 run-defense grade last season while Ogunjobi was at 73.0.

3. CLEVELAND BROWNS
One of the biggest movers this offseason. Olivier Vernon and Sheldon Richardson are easy plug-and-play options who earned pass-rushing grades of 86.0 and 65.8 respectively last season.

What Larry Ogunjobi can do to become elite for the 2019 Cleveland Browns -- Film Room
By Jake Burns

https://expo.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-2...-film-room.html

Jake Burns once again does an excellent job examining the techniques and schemes that we should expect to be installed on the Browns' D-line. Taking advantage of the skills our players already have in their arsenals. Very exciting.

Burns is awesome for me as well ... really breaks it down in simple terms. Thanks

Cleveland Browns training camp depth chart: How they are lining up on defense
By Jake Burns,

https://expo.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-2...on-defense.html

BEREA, Ohio -- Through the first five days of Cleveland Browns training camp, the defense has been better than the offense, flying around and looking comfortable within the scheme that Steve Wilks is implementing.

The NFL is more about teaching the scheme than teaching position. Players have to know multiple positions because of restrictions in personnel numbers.

With the defense, alignments can change snap to snap, and the players will move around the field pre-snap to post-snap.

You will see 12 total listed positions listed below, but between the nickel (or fifth) defensive back and SAM (strong-side) linebacker, one will be off the field depending on how the coaches want to match up against the offense.

This grouping is the best projection we can come up with based on first, second, and third team and where the Browns line the players up most often.:


The defense returns most of its starters, and the front four of the group will anchor the unit.

Myles Garrett and Olivier Vernon will be aligning all over the front and will aim to be unpredictable. With questions along the interior, the depth can be hard to peg down after Larry Ogunjobi and Sheldon Richardson.

The scheme will call for two linebackers in the 4-2-5 (4 defensive linemen, 2 linebackers, 5 defensive backs), but when they want a third linebacker they will use Adarius Taylor as the SAM.

The secondary has a variety of talent and they will use both cornerbacks and safeties in the slot depending on the situation.

This group's depth chart will largely stay the same, but there are some key battles to be settled in preseason -- especially at cornerback.

Thanks for posting the depth chart here too. As for the CB position, is Gaines our best bet to cover the slot? That’s going to dictate where other players may fall

J/C

I like to shed light on any information available about the defense. I'm fairly confident that the offense will step up. The development of the defense will have a lot to say about winning the division and going on a playoff run.

So... this.

Browns training camp defensive report: Defense gets turnover happy and Mack Wilson has a good day
Updated Aug 2, 4:52 PM; Posted Aug 2, 3:56 PM
Browns linebacker Mack Wilson stretches. (John Kuntz, cleveland.com)
cleveland.com

Browns linebacker Mack Wilson stretches. (John Kuntz, cleveland.com)

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63 shares
By Dan Labbe, cleveland.com

BEREA, Ohio -- The Browns defense hasn’t had a particularly big turnover day yet in training camp. They came in spots -- a fumble here or there and the occasional interception or two -- but the ball hasn’t gone the other way often.

That changed on Friday, even if it wasn’t the first-team defense doing the damage.

Phillip Gaines came up with the first one of the day off of Drew Stanton. Tigie Sankoh got the next one off of David Blough. Then, rookie Mack Wilson made a great play on a throw from Garrett Gilbert, collecting the pick and getting up off the ground to return it for a score.



The Browns defense thrived on turnovers in 2018. They were second in the NFL with 31 takeaways and had nine games with two or more takeaways and took the ball away three or more times in three games.

“That’s what you play defense for, to take the ball and give it back to the offense,” rookie safety Sheldrick Redwine said. “That’s a heavy emphasis, whenever the ball’s on the ground, somebody has to scoop it up, whenever you get a turnover, make sure you score with it.”

High turnover numbers are hard to duplicate year-to-year, but the ability to force them matters. The Browns’ defense might not have 30-plus in them again, but you can’t survive on that side of the ball without forcing a few.

Here are some more defensive observations.

* Wilson had a good day overall. Along with the interception, he broke into the backfield on a run play and registered a tackle for loss. He also got in on breaking up a screen pass with Daniel Ekuale.

* T.J. Carrie was back with the first team and Greedy Williams spent time with the second team. The pieces are still moving around at cornerback.

* The defense had a nice day overall in run drills. Joe Schobert opened one period with a stop in the backfield and Denzel Ward got in and made a tackle on another play. Devaroe Lawrence stuffed a play, too, and Sione Takitaki made a tackle for loss.


* Speaking of Lawrence, he’s done good things lately. Freddie Kitchens had praise for Lawrence after practice.

“Every time that ball snapped, he was getting after it,” Kitchens said.

* The secondary made some nice plays during a red zone period. Donnie Lewis Jr., a seventh-round pick in April, broke up a pass intended for Damon Sheehy-Guiseppi. T.J. Carrie broke up a ball intended for Derrick Willies. Christian Kirksey chipped in from the linebacker spot to break up a pass headed Odell Beckham Jr.’s way.

I'm intrigued whenever any of the interior d-line depth players get a mention. Nice to hear that Lawrence is making plays. Looks like these guys will have to play for us so I'm hanging onto the slightest news of progress...

Another report on the defense.

Browns Rookie Progress Report: Williams, Takitaki & Wilson
ByMAC ROBINSON Aug 2, 9:00 AM
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(Photo: Ken Blaze, USA TODAY Sports)
While eyes have been drawn toward the offense all offseason long, with additions like wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. and running back Kareem Hunt, the defense has quietly had some of the biggest additions, like defensive tackle Sheldon Richardson and edge rusher Olivier Vernon.

Not only did the team add great veterans like Richardson and Vernon, but they also accompanied them with a stellar rookie crop of defenders as well. So far, cornerback Greedy Williams has been tasked with covering the star receiver in Beckham Jr., and to his credit, Williams has held his own so far.

Browns defensive coordinator Steve Wilks spoke on the matchup following Thursday's practice, "I think he is doing a great job. I think he is learning. He is growing. He needs to learn how to be consistent each and every day in how he practices. I am excited about what he is doing and where he is going."


Wilks later added, "He has good change of direction. He plays with good body lean. He is fast. He can run with Odell and mostly all the receivers. What I am impressed with him the last couple days is he is stepping up in the run game and making tackles.”

In addition to Williams, rookie linebackers Sione Takitaki and Mack Wilson have also turned heads so far this training camp.

Takitaki has been a physical player throughout training camp but is progressing according to Wilks. While Wilks likes the physicality of the BYU rookie, there are improvements Takitaki can make still according to his defensive coordinator, "He is physical. He is still a rookie. He is still making mistakes. Those are things that he has to make sure that he corrects, but I like his physicality."

Wilks added about where Takitaki can improve, "Really out in space. Everybody needs to do a much better job of really taking the grass. I tell guys all the time when you think you are in position to make a tackle, take one more step. We have thrown a lot at these really in somewhat seven practices. When you look at what we are doing, I think he is swimming a little bit, but he will get it.”


When it comes to Wilson, he has the athleticism that you hope to see in the modern NFL, at least according to Wilks.

Wilks said about Wilson, “I love his athleticism. When you look at him out in space, he plays well, good change of direction. When you look at the matchups throughout this league, a lot of times you do not really have safeties that can cover these big tight ends so you need a linebacker that can run. That is the mode that we have right now. He fits that mode right there being able to cover a tight end as well.”

As the preseason unfolds, the rookies will certainly be an area of the team to watch.

Mac Reacts

As training camp has gone on, the rookies are not easy to find on the field, and that isn't a bad thing. I had expected a rookie learning curve while they got adjusted to the NFL speed and play.

Williams has especially stood out to me so far. His natural ball skills are definitely at a high level, but, as Wilks mentioned, he needs to work on his consistency on the field. While many took issue with Williams' tackling pre-draft, he has actually shown the willingness to step up in the run game and has worked with special teams as well. The learning curve is there, but it isn't as steep as I expected. Once he gets used to the NFL speed, Williams has a chance to be a special player.


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COMMENTS
For the linebackers, I've had my eye on Takitaki this camp and really am impressed by what I've seen so far. I love the physicality and quickness, but what I've really taken note of from the rookie is the development of temperament as camp continues. Being undisciplined and physical doesn't help in the NFL, but directed and disciplined physicality? That is a skill in today's NFL.


Mac Robinson
@MacRobinsonCLE
Rookie LB Sione Takitaki showing his quickness to the hole, stopping the run at the line of scrimmage. #Browns

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11:07 AM - Aug 1, 2019 · Cleveland Browns Training Facility
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I haven't seen as much of Wilson so far this camp, but from what I have seen, he seems like his athleticism, while nothing over the top like some would hope, is more than enough to play in the NFL. He will likely have a role on special teams, but also as the all-important coverage backer. Given the NFL trend of tight ends being glorified receivers, Wilson and his development will be one to be watched as the season continues.

I've got this impression in my head that TakiTaki's strengths are Wilson's weakness and vice versa. If they continue to grow in their respective areas of weakness we'll have two very good young LBs. As it is, I think both can see the field this year. 44 should get some backup Mike reps and 51 could get some work covering TEs.

Adarius Taylor... and it is interesting to see only a single name listed at SAM.

Adarius Taylor, 5 year pro experience. We signed him from Tampa Bay this offseason. Had somewhat of a breakout year when one of the starting LBs for TB got hurt. Always been a special teams standout who provides LB depth.

Avery is strictly an edge rusher. I don’t know who King is.

Don’t worry about the third linebacker, we won’t be using him much. Wilks’ defense in Arizona played sets with less than three linebackers 86% of the time last year.

I'm a bit concerned about the defense. Mainly because I'm not sure that we got better at stopping the run this off-season and because after researching Wilks, I came away less than impressed. He took a very good defense in Arizona and switched it from a 3-4 to a 4-3 and the defense got a lot worse in just one year. I also don't like that he played more zone than any DC in the league when he was in Carolina.

I am not proclaiming he will be awful, but I do have some trepidation about him and this defense. Also, I am not as sold on Vernon as I was originally. He was kind of disappointing in New York. And I really don't think we did enough at SS. I would rather have Tre Boston than the guys we acquired. He just signed for peanuts this past week.

Just throwing some things out there. I'm not saying we will suck. I just think there are some concerns. Hopefully, they will be answered in a positive manner.

As I've posted before I don't think these concerns are invalid. They are questions that deserve answers. I think I prioritize some of the issues you raise differently. Although stopping the run is at the center of my doubt.

Admittedly, some could say that I'm overstating the depth issue of the DL. It will be answered by the performance of that unit on the field. I think that applies to the issues you raise also. Can't get definitive answers until we see the on-field performance.

Orange and Brown Scrimmage: How the 4-2-5 alignment will help the defense improve
By Jake Burns

https://expo.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-2...se-improve.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns enter the 2019 preseason having completely overhauled a defense and a defensive coaching staff that needed a new identity.

Gone is Gregg Williams, and his propensity to play three linebackers. The Browns led the NFL in three linebacker usage at 66 percent, and when you consider how often opposing offenses have three or more receivers on the field, the old 4-3 scheme seems even more outdated.

With the hire of Steve Wilks, the Browns have committed to the idea of matching athletes across the field with four defensive linemen, two linebackers and five defensive backs. It removes one of the 4-3's slower athletes for a fifth defensive back.

Wilks touched on the scheme and his reasoning following practice earlier this week in Berea. "What we have to understand first of all is where the game is now a days. They are putting more speed on the field. You want to make sure that you are able to match that speed."

Wilks' philosophy is simple: if the offense is going to play faster players on the perimeter, he has to match that speed.

"That is the reason why we go with that look. A safety, as we consider to be a slash-linebacker that can blend in the box and stop the run but also athletic enough right there to be able to play in space."

We got our first look at the 4-2-5 scheme from a wide angle at the Orange and Brown scrimmage, but before we get to how it is applied, let's learn how the scheme looks on paper.



WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE
The biggest position you will need to get comfortable hearing is the nickel cornerback. That's the replacement for the missing linebacker, and he figures to be on the field on nearly every down.

There will only be two linebackers on the field a majority of the snaps in the Mike and Will position. When defenses bring on more tight ends and fullback, the defensive scheme still has the ability to match by taking the nickel out and replacing him with a Sam linebacker for a traditional three-linebacker look.

Here is what the base defense will look like with two deep safeties.


The base will have the nickel covering the slot and two deep safeties able to play any of the traditional coverage looks. This will be a normal pre-snap look in pass situations.

The nickel and weak side corner will have run contain duties.




The defense also offers the ability to play an aggressive approach with the strong safety walked down toward the tackle box. As you can see here, there is one deep safety and it means more players closer to the line of scrimmage.

The style of defense allows quick defenders to blitz from a multiple of angles.

WHO WILL PLAY WHERE
Wilks has been known for finding a player who can play his safety/linebacker hybrid role. He had Shaq Thompson during his days in Carolina, and Budda Baker with the Cardinals.

Finding that player who is athletic enough to match up with tight ends and bigger slot players, but also can be physical enough against the run is vital to the defense's success.

Wilks doesn't want to use multiple players at the position, depending on tendencies. He discussed his options in Cleveland.

"Shaq as well as Buddha (are the models for) guys that we have here with (Jermaine) Whitehead and then again with Juston Burris and (Sheldrick) Redwine. I want to make sure from a matchup standpoint when they go two [running] backs, it is totally different."

It's clear the defensive staff likes Whitehead and Burris, but Eric Murray has also had plenty of success during camp, and Redwine was specifically mentioned for his ability to play the role.

The front office spent assets on the role in the offseason, adding the flexibility in the safety and cornerback room give Wilks options on gamedays.

HOW IT LOOKED AT THE SCRIMMAGE
The application was as you might expect. They gave multiple single-high and double-high safety looks, and they rushed their group of defensive backs from various positions.

The interesting thing to note will be how Wilks uses Damarious Randall. Traditionally the free safety has been used in the deep center in single-high and two-high safety looks, but Randall has specifically mentioned he will be closer to the ball on occasion and he was during Saturday's scrimmage.

Redwine has mentioned how the two safety positions are fairly interchangable. Training camp allows for coaches to rotate players throughout the secondary. Unlike college, coaches scheme for teams, not position. The players in a 53-man roster secondary need to understand the role of all five positions.

That also helps players understand the big picture instead of one small portion of the philosophy.

Although assignments have yet to be finalized, there is no doubt the secondary is playing confidently and the two linebackers are comfortable patrolling the middle of the field instead of worrying about the slot.

FINAL THOUGHTS
The principle of having more defensive backs makes sense on paper, but the NFL is a matchup league and Wilks certainly knows this.

"Now, you are talking about old school football. When you talk about 12 personnel (one running back, two tight ends) when they can split (TE) David (Njoku) out (the alignment is more one running back and one tight end). ... That is the matchup that we try to make sure that we can handle.”

The good thing is the defense has the athletes who can match up with those talented interior receivers and tight ends. The ability to do so doesn't stop after the first-team players as well.

A welcome change for traditionally thin rosters.

Wilks has full autonomy of the defensive side of the ball, and spoke of appreciating his working relationship with head coach Kitchens.

"I think the communication with Freddie has been outstanding," he said. "He is heavily involved in what we are doing on this side of the ball with the communication between him and me. Constantly talking about certain things we need to be working on and trying to create those certain looks within practice.”

Kitchens will be involved in what the defense will be doing week to week, but he is trusting Wilks to run this ship correctly.

That's a big leap of faith, but Browns fans should know it's rooted in both proper scheme and a proper analytical approach.

That isn't really accurate. Williams played a lot of only two linebacker sets when he was w/the Rams. I think he played 3 LBers here because our strong safeties sucked so bad in coverage. Peppers was bad in coverage and the other dude...what was his name...Kindred....was even worse.



Not a fan of two-deep safeties.




My guess is this will be exploited by getting athletic TEs and slot WRs on the safety who is not named Randall.



Wilks is similar to Williams in that both love to blitz.




I knew this was coming. Said it a long time ago. Good luck w/that.

Gregg Williams played three linebackers less in 2018 than he did in 2017 but he still played a base defense way more than the league average despite having Damarious Randall and Jabrill Peppers. In 2018 we played base 31% of the time (7th in the league). I'd bet it'd be a bit higher if Kirksey and Schobert didn't get hurt. In 2017 we were in base 66% of the time.

Compare that to Wilks' Cardinals defense which was only in base 10% of the time last year. With the Panthers Wilks was in base 50% of the time but the metrics lie a little bit because they count Shaq Thompson as a linebacker when he is really more of a hybrid Jabrill Peppers type player.



Me either. I think we will see this (from the link above) more often than not:





Pick your poison. Would you rather have Burnett/Redwine/Harris/Whitehead on this player or Carrie or a rookie/terrible linebacker (Wilson/Takitaki/Taylor)? I don't know the answer to this question and no one does really. It is one of the main problems facing modern NFL defenses.

I am okay w/the rest of your post, but I really have no idea how your answer is connected to what I said in this part.



And I am not sure I even want you to answer because I am getting a funny feeling that you may be trying to represent what I said incorrectly. I clearly brought up that Williams played w/2 LBers in LA. I believe he played 3 here because our safeties were terrible in coverage his first year and only Randall could cover the second year.