DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus 9 dead, 16 injured in a shooting in Dayton, Ohio

LOl.....so you are saying guns is the problem.


You are ignoring the problem. The problem is the people.

Here's the deal, you aren't taking away any of my rights. I follow the law, until the law according to people like you change it, then, well, I guess it's on.

I am not saying that in a threatening way. Just a matter of fact way.

The problem is these people are outsiders. They don't get friended on social media, they don't go on dates.

They are lunatic in their views.

America doesnt lead the world in mass shootings.
Choke on your tears, liberals.


https://nypost.com/2018/08/30/america-doesnt-actually-lead-the-world-in-mass-shootings/

Well, that certainly puts a wrench in the left's gears.

I think that's certainly another variable and worth considering. Good post.

You know, they have outsiders in other 1st world countries too. More deflection.

Eve I haven't checked your link because I'm on my phones. I will check it out and I'm sure that statistically somebody has come up with a way to say another country in the world has more mass shootings, I'd be very surprised if that is a first world nation, but I will check. Whether it's just gun violence, all mass shootings I'm fairly sure that America will be right at the top of the table either way. and I'm not saying to take anyone's guns away, I'm just trying to highlight that all this talk about other root causes is BS. The reason the USA leads the way in gun violence and will be near the top in mass shootings is because of our gun culture. Everything else is window dressing. Has claimed wrote the other day, perhaps these deaths are just an inevitable part of our right to bear arms. But please don't blame video games, outsiders, internet, or any of these other BS deflections that the rest of the world has, without our gun violence.

* As Clem wrote the other day .... Voice to text went wonky on me.

It's probably like school shootings.

I remember someone posting about how many school shootings there were in the u.s. Posted a nice graphic showing all of them.

And when I clicked on each shooting, it was amazing what got included in 'school shootings". Like, drug deal gone bad in a school parking lot at 2 a.m. Or, 'school employee goes to work in the morning, and sees a window shot out."


But, those, and hundreds others like those, get reported as "school shootings".

Peen, there are people like that all over the world. That isn't unique to the US. The PROBLEM is that we let these people have access to mass killing machines without a blink of an eye.

For all of the responsible gun owners out there, great. I commend you. But you can't make the false equivalency that just because you are a responsible owner, everyone else will be too. Yes, a few can ruin it for the many. And unfortunately, that's what needs to happen here.

j/c:

I love when people say it isn't a "blank" problem or a "bleep" problem, or a "this" problem, or a "that" problem and then say stupid stuff like it's a gun problem.

There are multiple factors. It isn't any one freaking thing. Sometimes, the ignorance of these discussions completely blows my mind. All of these stupid political agendas outweigh analyzing the problems deeply and working to reduce them.

We will never "solve" the problem of violent acts/mass murders/hate crimes, etc..........but we should be trying to help reduce those crimes by using intelligence and strategies rather than playing some stupid political game!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR............y'all drive me nuts w/this nonsense!

So, the repeat speeder would be reason for me not to drive?


The repeat drunk driver would be reason for me not to have a license?

The guy or gal that beats their kid/s is a reason for me not to have kids?

How about the jackwad a few houses down that blows his grass onto the road when mowing. It's illegal. Should I have my mower taken away?

I mean, if your going to ruin it for the law abiders as far as guns, you may as well ruin it for everyone else as far as cars, mowing......whatever.


We just need another law, right? Because murder being illegal hasn't taken root yet. Punish everyone.

Forget about guns, America has had guns since the beginning with few problems.

It's today that is the problem, something has gone wrong in our society.

Guns were never a problem?

Were gun fights in the Wild, Wild, West not a problem? Were shootings in bars and restaurants by mob members not a problem? Were accidental shootings of children not a problem? I could go on and on and on.

I am not defending guns to those of you who are on the opposite side of guys like 40.

What I am saying is that blaming gun laws is the rhetoric of the weak-minded or agenda driven politicians.

This problem is very complex. There are so many facets to it. Saying things like you "video games are not the problem" is technically correct, but it's ignorant to ignore that they teach young children to devalue life and sometimes become absorbed in a world of fantasy. To say that our President preaching hate is the only problem is foolhardy, but to say that message isn't a part of the problem is even worse. To say that how we patronize our troubled youths in our schools is the only problem is short-sighted, but to say it isn't a huge issue is a travesty. I could go on and on w/examples.

There is no easy answer here, folks. This is a complex problem that is going to take a lot of time, effort, self-examination, and some damn hard choices if we want to try and decrease the numbers of these horrific acts of violence and hate.

I don't think America is up for it. And while America wants to place the blame on this one thing or that one thing and is too freaking pussified to make some really tough decisions, more and more innocent folks will be needlessly murdered.

J/c

I think denying that the gun is some part of the issue when discussing gun violence and mass shootings is an act of denial. Certainly it's not the only part of the issue. Surely it's complicated and it isn't solved by simply "taking away people's rights to own a gun" .....

But how often have i had a conversation with people who, rightly, point out that a determined individual could kill dozens in a car or by using explosives, or cause many injuries with a knife ???? All true ... But what is the reality? What is the actual method these mass shooters actually use? What did the guy in Vegas use killing over 50? In TX, 22? In Ohio, in under a minute??? Not talking about the means these folks use over and over again is to ignore a serious part of the issue.

Yea, you have a point there.

I am not j/c:

Guns are certainly a part of the problem. Not guns specifically, but perhaps how easy it is to get one and maybe even the gun laws.

I am not sure about this and I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the dude in Ohio have a Carry Permit? My question is how the hell could that be if he already was on record for having a "Hit List?" Now, I might be mistaken and if I am, someone please gently correct me.

I am all for having stricter gun laws. I can't make it any more clear than that.

I will say that I am not stupid enough to think that stricter gun laws will eliminate gun violence. People will just get them illegally. We can't even think to believe we can possibly confiscate all the guns. So, where does that leave us? Bad guys w/guns. Good guys w/no guns. Ehhhhh........no thank you.

Once again, I think we need stricter gun laws. But, this issue has so many compartments that it's tough to unveil them all. I really think it starts w/how we are dealing w/our problem children in our schools. We are nurturing poor behavior. We are alienating them from the general population because acting improperly over a period of time actually grants you more rights. Of course, the general population of students and teachers are going to be offended by that. It's amazing to me that more people can't see that.

Here...........an example.

A student picks his nose and smears it on a girl's arm in a Small Learning Group. The girl squeal and says something like "What is wrong w/you? Keep your hands off of me, you pig." The student throws himself to the floor and begins banging his head on the floor and screams that he is being bullied. His mother comes into school and blames the teacher and the other students for bullying her son. Meanwhile, this same mother says things in a parent/teacher conference [w/her son in attendance] that it's no wonder he is screwed up w/a low-life father like the one he had. [She divorced him a couple of years ago.]

Then, the school psychologists [who were already involved] make new determinations that no one in the class [students and the teacher] are allowed to react when the designated student touches them, hits them, insults them or when he acts out in any manner. We are to act as if this is normal behavior. This student is then given a role on the Student Leadership Team to help his self-esteem.

Now, you tell me if that is a sound strategy or not?

We nurture them.

I think we are coming from a very similar place on this ... I think there is a wealth of issues in society that can breed or foster the issues that lead up to these atrocities. And I am not advocating taking guns away - I don't have a solution to offer other than what would seem to any normal human obvious, make it harder for those unfit to legally own a gun to obtain one. BUT - just like criminals and felons shouldn't legally own guns, their proliferation in society almost makes that a somewhat ineffective action. If someone really wants to get a gun - multiple guns - they will.

As you stated, I don't believe the USA has the will or fortitude to actually try to make a difference. I think many will refuse to even debate the issue out of fear for any compromise leading to infringement on what they feel is their indelible right to own guns.

Yeah, it sucks! It's such a complex problem. It's not going to get fixed.

And I apologize for getting angry earlier, but the quick fix answers drive me nuts.

I have never taught a mass murderer. Thank God. However, some of the students that I have talked about on here have went on to do awful things, including rape, sexual abuse, and yes, even murder.

I'm telling you guys.......the student population and the teachers know who these kids are. They are scary. They are really scary in their teens, but man, I taught 5th freaking grade for the last 9 years of my career and even some of those kids are downright scary.

I apologize for getting angry earlier. It's just frustrating that we can't find an answer.

Then there is my line of thought that this phenomenon of daily mass shootings isn't a problem at all. It's the natural consequence of having at least one gun for every man, woman, child and infant in circulation here in America.

I'm really starting to think that we should all just shut up about this facet of modern life and chalk it up as the cost of doing business.

No changes in gun laws.
No background checks.
No mental health screenings.
No 'red flag' provisions.
No limits on mag capacities, or mods like bump stocks.

Just an adult acceptance of a direct causal relationship between the number of lethal tools and wet holes in humans. Freedom isn't free, and all rights come at a price.

Death is the price of 2A.


I'm OK with that price. So too should you all be.


whatevz.
[shrugs]

Clem, I like you and respect you. But, I think you are so far off base on this issue that I can't even begin to describe it.

I won't go on because I respect you. but.......that's all.

No, it's the GOP. You know, the wholly-owned subsidiary of the NRA...

Please, post in some basis of reality.

https://www.criminalwatchdog.com/faq/background-checks-for-guns

like pulling teeth to get the computer to do Anything right now!

6 Police officers engaged and shot this person almost immediately and I think it's not an unrealistic estimate to say they saved about 13 lives and up to 20 more injuries.

This should not be forgotten.

You know Vers, sometimes when put on shutdown and get a weekday network daytime television, sometimes I inevitably watch that show "the view"

I hate that show 'the view" and the main one the most, but Even that Red Head, aging weirdo, (Name I forget),Hey, Joy Behar- I remembered,

Who I could call a thousand names, with that scratchy fingernails on the chalkboard voice, even said one line on this subject years ago and it's stuck in my mind..
because ya'know she's got that terrible voice that's like an alarm clock.

She said, I think you have a right to drive down the street but there's a difference between driving a regular car and Driving a Formula one Race car in a residential area.

If ya didn't feel bad enough already, One of the network nightly news sources brought us a first person experience of someone hiding under what appeared to be close to mall furniture,

but the audio was up front, so everybody in America could get a ...( I can't)

You know, really feel like a part of the experience.

Now, What a classless classless classless classless thing to do you expletative expletative ditto dittos'.


What about my friend who's relative got killed just a few some weeks ago, how do I think they think if they have to watch this,

If I were in this situation and ended up gone, I wouldn't want my family to have to listen to the audio just because some person had a cell phone and some producer or director wanted an exclusive.

^ The definition of Sick.

So the most disturbing thing that I read about the Dayton shooting is that the person used a 100 round magazine and got off 41 shots in 30 seconds before he was killed.

A 100 round magazine is not something that any person should be allowed to have. Simply stated it is a military item.

10 rounds is enough. Period.

Magazines should also require two actions to change. That requires the users to remove his hands from the weapon to change.

Time is always the nemesis of a mass shooter. It was the same for Las Vegas.

Slow down the ability to fire, and you give others a chance. It it not a perfect solution, but it is a start.

You know what’s so funny about this post?

If there wasn’t any video, you MAGA hatters would be using this in your latest rounds of ‘false flag’ and crisis actors rhetoric that y’all love so much, claiming it never actually happened

Straight filth.

Swish,
I see you are still battling

I'm Ok with your right to hold that view.

Always

jc

I dont really feel this is a gun problem. (Sorry liberals, suck a thumb)

I think its a culture problem.

Because to the young people who feel like outcasts in society, they look up to mass shooters like Columbine. Or to other mass shooters for whatever cause that resonates with them.

Its entirely glamorized in a really bad way. By the media. On the internet. And probably in those circles.

So, when their life is bleak they give up and try to take everybody out.

Its a society and cultural problem.

I dont really feel there is a solution.

Its not any different than the suicide bombers in the middle east mass killing lots of people for an idealogy, or political complaint. Its part of their culture.

Please explain the necessity of a 100 round magazine, Eve.

Please debate anything in my post, thanks.

The difference is the skill required of the individual committing the mass kill and the ease in comparison to the other methods mentioned. Guns are simply more efficient, more obtainable in the US and the preferred method.

And mass killings are part of our culture as well.

Chicken...

Not really. Look at the boston bombers, easy instructions for creating a pressure cooker bomb are available online.

Mass murdering people is easy. You dont even need a gun. Just drive through a crowd.

You're putting liberal agenda over actual discussion. This isnt about guns.

I didnt want to point out that your head is cut off, but you brought it up, so....

And technically not the best method, scary yes, efficient, no unless your purpose is to terrorize people.

And don't call me a liberal. Far from it.

Go ask the Europeans how they feel about death by vehicle mass murderers.

You're still missing the point. There is a vacuum over your head where the point went wooshing by.

whataboutism at its finest.

Charger, honey, unless you can have an intelligent convo about any of this post, I dont have anything to say to you. You are wasting my time.