DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns 2019 training camp preview: Analyzing the special teams

This link showed up on one of my FB Browns groups. I thought it was interesting. Lewis Ward is the placekicker for the Ottawa Redbacks in the CFL. From 7/28/18 to 7/5/19 he made 69 consecutive field goals.

Link

Hmm, I’d be open to anybody who could do that. I think we have to explore all options at this point ... I simply don’t think either kicker has garnered the trust/confidence at this point. Heck, even if they both make each kick the next two games ... the doubt is too strong

I'd bring this dude in and see what he's got. Did Ottawa play outside? That will be the key, esp when the winds start whipping up. I trust Dorsey and his team are scouring the league and discussing all scenarios once cuts are made.

I was wondering this myself. Lots of kicks (from many teams) last regular season as well.

These guys have such huge legs now in terms of distance, it's got to be a mechanics thing. The weather certainly hasn't changed. And many of these kicks are XPs. Alignment, approach, plant and follow through. Maybe with such gifted legs and distance (getting better as they reach their peaks), kickers are missing out somewhere on the simplest of fundamentals.

This is even when the holds look good.

Who knows?

It seems to have coincided with moving the XPs back as well.

I wonder if that is just crushing guy's confidence. Kind of like layups in basketball. Get a few easy ones, get the confidence up, and it makes the harder ones easier. Guys start missing XPs and it has a ripple effect to the rest of their game.

I listen to Pat McAfee and he eluded to this being the case too .. basically that there’s always been “bad” kickers who could squeak by because they made every XP and made “enough” short FGs/medium FGs ... but now, those types of kickers cant gain any confidence cuz they miss so many XPs

66% is just not good enough.

I'm leaning toward keep Seibert and deal with the growing pains, see if we can find a buyer for Joseph before cuts have to happen.

Growing pains means losing a game or two (or more). Remember, losing a couple games last year due to our kicker meant the difference between a wildcard spot. To be honest, with the roster we have...I'm not ok with that. Secure the position, train the kid on the PS and then wheel him out when he looks better.

With the roster moves we've made this offseason, we seem to be approaching, if not already in "win now" mode. I see no reason why we can't unload a 5th or something like that for a dependable kicker.

I think Joseph has kicked himself out of the competition ..

I think it’s between Siebert and a trade or someone that gets cut ...

PDX ... whats Freddie suppose to say ... were definitely looking cause we have no faith in either of these guys ... *L* ...

Freddie said the only thing he could at this point IMO ..

J/c

Making 3 out of 5 (and some of them under 40 yards) just isn’t close to good enough and I can’t see us keeping either one.

If I had to choose, I guess I’d go with Seibert just becaus clearly we saw some upside ... but dang

That's just it... I see it as a wash between the two and I fully expect that regardless of which one we roll with, we're still going to lose a game or two because of the kicker.

That being what it is, I figure we may as well go with the young gun and cut his teeth on the fly while saving a buck or two on the Cap.

Hasn't Joseph been better all off-season?

From what I’ve followed ... Joseph had a leg up and was better until the past week and a half or so. He’s seemed to have regressed back to Seibert

j/c:

I think it will be extremely hard to "trade" for a kicker at this point. There just aren't that many good ones. We'll have to scour the waiver wire if we don't want to go w/either of our two current kickers. I think the dude from Carolina is probably going to be the hottest kicker out there.

He was the first week - 10 days by default ... seibert has had as good or better numbers since then ... he's improved from horrible to below average some days and has had a few 5/5 days .. Joseph has been consistently below average ...

No matter who we run out there ... one of these two or someone we trade for (someone another teams gonna cut that we trade for to avoid the “war” ) or pick up after cuts were not gonna have any faith in ...

Huh? Did I say anything against Freddie on this one?

I have been saying for weeks now that we WILL lose games with either of these guys. Joseph missed some last year, everytime he went up there our hearts skipped a beat. He is still missing even at camp and in preseason. We took Seibert in the 5th, he is young, he's missing at TC and in preseason. He has yet to kick in bad weather when a game is on the line. Cut Joseph, put Seibert on the PS and sign a more reliable dude on waivers for a one year contract. Train Seibert and get him ready for next season. I don't see how either are going to stop missing come 9/8 let alone when bad weather hits.

Zegura said Joseph went 5/7 today (his misses were from 50+) and Seibert was 4/7 missing a 40yder.

Looks like he's kicking off a tee, which I would think adds to the distance. With that said, that kick would have been good from 68, if it was attempted from 60.

I’m not going to get carried away and say he should unseat anybody or even be a serious thought to compete at K ... but, it has to at least be discussed

I say give all the kicking duties to the Scottish Hammer~~!!

You see he hit a 60 yarder in camp yesterday as well as kicking a 74 yard punt against the Dolts.

That gives us 1 more roster spot...:)

It's also slightly different kicking with the game on the line, a holder who has seconds to place it and a defense pushing forward. Not to mention wind, snow, rain etc.

He did kick in college as well as punt. Not sure how he did, but it is not a new experience for him.

Here are his college kicking stats.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/players.asp?id=261617

One thing I noticed while at training camp, was that it was Colquitt who held every snap for both Seibert and Jones during field goal attempts.

Doesn't cut and paste well, link has a more indepth breakdown but in brief:

2017
Games 11
FGM 13
FGA 21
FG% 62%

22/23 on XP's

Barely above 50 per cent.

Can we please cut this guy? He's become an annoyance.

Cut the Hammer? Just because he kicked and punted in college?
C'mon bro!

I get that. But, he was brought in as a punter. That speaks volumes. That said, maybe they will look at him, maybe they will try him on Friday? But, I am thinking Dorsey is talking as we speak to scouts/evaluators regarding kickers.

Potential trade here? ...

ADAM VINATIERI
K, INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

Adam Vinatieri (knee) expects to return to practice this week.

Vinatieri has missed the last two preseason games. Undrafted rookie Cole Hedlund has been filling in for Vinatieri, showcasing himself well for other teams after making 4-of-5 field goals. Vinatieri should play in Indy's dress rehearsal Saturday with Chicago.

SOURCE: colts.com
Aug 21, 2019, 5:32 PM ET

During the last preseason game they said something like the last three backup Colt kickers in the preseason were traded or signed and became starters on other teams.

I wonder how he does on xp’s ...

J/c

I’m all for trying something like that to enhance our efficiency in the kicking game ... I just can’t trust either guy we have

I found it very telling that Joseph wasn't used at all last night. I was, however, encouraged that Seibert made all 4, inc a 54 yarder. All of that said...it still worries me. Especially when the weather changes and the winds start whipping up. I just don't know if Seibert has experienced kicking in weather like that. That said, my sister went to OU and I have been to Norman and know that it can get windy on those plains. Still, very different than weather on the Great Lakes tho.

Was Colquitt out at all? Was he holding for Seibert? I didn't notice the holder, but pretty sure Jaime did all the punting in game 3.

I believe Colquitt punted once and held on all the FG attempts. I am not positive about that, but I think that is correct.