DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Freddie Kitchens..what was a crowning achievement before this year?

Please God let us win next week so that we don't have to talk about this type of nonsense.

Geeesh dude, is the coaching staff supposed to pat them down before they head to the field? Is that how "Bill" maintains control and obedience?

In my day it used to be just a pat on the butt and a "Good Game".. things have changed I guess. I always did wonder why coach held his squeeze a little long though....

Wait, OBJ wore an expensive watch in the game? I think the only thing more shocking is that someone is shocked by it SMH

I like this type of coaching. Other players don't. You gotta wonder if they do a personality assessment prior to signing/drafting a player.

if not they should... some players need their butts rode others need to be left alone.

regardless, I want Freddie come out and spank the Jets by 45 on Monday. I want this team to show the fans and everyone else they were right. I want them to fight to prove they belong and I hope we forget about week 1. If not... man, oh man, this is going to be a long season and Freddie will end up exactly like Chud.

Your right, I am sure the HC of any football is going over each and every players uniform and spot checking them like a military inspection. . . . .

I didn't think there was a need for purple..

Honestly, I think things will be OK barring we don't have any major injuries.

the 1st week for a rookie head coach is the most daunting. Kitchens is trying to get a feel 100% of what works and what don't. Lots of teams lost Sunday, and its not the end of the world.

I am actually fairly confident that we bounce back Monday Night. We have a lot of talent on this team, this isn't like the old Sashi Browns that were devoid of talent outside Myles Garret.

I'll be very suprised if we don't bounce back in a big way against the Jets. If what folks say about Mayfield is true, I bet that L is eating at him and he is grinding even harder than ever to put it behind him.

As long as this team can keep its composure, I think we will compete and do well.

It's called a culture.
The Patriots and Steelers have winning cultures.
Can you define the Browns culture since 1999?
Last time I checked wearing a watch on the field doesn't equate to a culture of winning
Sounds like "hey look what I'm displaying"

I'm sure Kitchens knew about the watch and gave it his seal of approval.

Seriously?

I think it was Freddies idea ... ya, thats it ... Freddie told him to do it ...

Yeah, Freddie got a kickback from the watch company.

Freddie said he didn't know OBJ wore a watch. He deserves no blame for something that isn't a big deal to begin with.

I was going to start a thread about this, but I'll just put it here for now. I have been debating whether to post these thoughts because I know certain folks will make things personal and ignore the points. But, it's been nagging me and our lack of discipline and resolve the other day made the thoughts stronger.

Before I begin, I am NOT saying that this is a reality that will derail this team, but I think it's worthy of thought.

I wonder if our guys have bought into the hype? We have a young team w/very little veteran experience from championship teams and I can see how this team would buy into the hype.

I see our QB making more commercials than Tom Brady. The former has a career losing record while the latter has won six Super Bowls. I think it's okay to market oneself, but man, he's made a lot of them. Guys like Rodgers and P. Manning made a lot, but it took years for that to happen. Heck, Baker makes way more than Mahommes, who had the better year last year.

OBJ sat out almost all of camp.

OBJ was catching passes from Kaep rather than Baker.

Landry and OBJ on the sidelines eating snacks during a preseason game.

Baker not working w/a qb coach and instead hitting the media circuit.

Multiple national magazine interviews.

A HC who talks too much. Talks tough, but contradicts himself.

Myles doing some kind of photo shoot that I refuse to look at, but man...

Vets sitting out many practices and preseason games.

Big talk all camp long.

Guys like Tom Brady working w/different receivers almost all summer long and our guys only meeting up for a couple of days. And that was more about just hooking up than actually working.

A coach who encouraged the team to not back down in scrimmages w/Indy and then his team coming out and looking totally undisciplined.

There's more, but I think the point is made. Taken in isolation, they mean nothing. Putting them together and I have to wonder if there is a connection?

If we win the next couple of weeks and go on to have a great season, those things are meaningless. If this team struggles, folks like me might wonder if we are as focuses as we should be.

For clarification sake, I want to add that par of my thought process has been influenced by similar thoughts of former NFL players like D. Woody, M. Spears, Deion Sanders, W. McGinnest, etc, etc.

Hard to argue with any of that.

I actually think many of the things you pointed out may be quite trivial and have nothing to do with any of this. I mean NFL players have down time. Off season and between OTA's and training camp. Knowing when these events took place in terms of commercials and photo shoots would go a long way in making a determination as to how relevant they may or may not be. But I would say if the team continues to lose people will try and make issues out of them even if they aren't relevant.

As it pertains to Mayfled and the WR's not working out enough together during the off season, I'd say it would have been better had they of spent more time at that.

I feel that there are far more important factors at play here. A first time HC. A new OC and DC. The play calling not giving max protection on pass plays and not using the running game properly. The players allowing themselves to let their emotions overtake them and not remain focused on the game.

I also agree with you about Baker not working with a QB coach.

But when your WR's aren't playing in a preseason game, I certainly think them eating snacks on the sideline isn't something worthy of attention.

I know that each and every one of the things I listed can be shredded on an individual basis. And I did NOT say that this is a fact. I think I said it was worthy of thought.

My point was that there may be some questions about how focused this group is on football. You can say that you are focused. You might think you are focused. But outside distractions have been the downfall of more than one team.

I think there are many more important questions about this team and I brought those up in the Hype thread. The focus thing is a different discussion.

That may be true. I just don't think in the grand scheme of things that a commercial or photo shoot you did a couple of months ago in your time off have much to do with the focus on training camp and the game last Sunday.

I could be wrong. But I just don't see it that way.

While some feel the preseason isn't important, I think we are seeing the results of what happens when you fail to use your starting line up on both sides of the ball working together.

That doesn't really hold true with team who have stable coaching systems and stable coaching staffs. But in our case, a little continuity may have worked wonders.

Our veteran presence is certainly a question mark on this team, in particular a veteran who has won in the NFL.

I'd love for Landry to be that guy. Grow to be the Willie McGinnest of the team. A guy that will check ANY player who slacks off, and put them in their place.

We need someone who doesn't want the excuses... they want the execution on the field.

1 game in, its hard to say exactly where our team stands from an accountability, execution, and discipline standpoint, but week 1 wasn't a good look.

This is just my thought but I think what Vers is talking about collectively is about the concept of professionalism.

A professional puts in the work, the due diligence and handles the responsibilities first. Then comes the fun stuff. I don't think there's any reason to believe that they aren't working hard. But when you see all the "fun" stuff and combine it with last Sunday's stinker, I think it's wholly reasonable to wonder:

1) What isFreddie's message to the players
2) Is it the right message for this group?
3) Is he effectively instilling that message in this group?

Time will tell.

Not to mention it's not always about what you aren't doing but also about what the other guys are doing.

He always smelled like vinegar?

Hey Pit. I am not trying to get you to agree w/me. I don't even know if I agree w/me. LOL. It's food for thought. I also appreciate that you disagreed w/out the personal crap that some resort to.

I do have one question for you. Do you think this team played w/focus in week one?

I like Freddie...

But first time head coaches should never retain play calling responsibilities. It is always a recipe for disaster.

The other major issue is accountability. All great teams have individuals that demand accountability at all levels. That is not Freddie's personality, and I don't see anyone else playing that role. This is a problem.

I don't agree with stripper in general. but I coached college players in summer baseball....I agree with him there.

I had uniform standards. Some team voted, some mandated my me. Once it was set, I checked that every player complied.


If not, get it right or take a seat on the bench with no hope of playing.

Adjustments could be made by corner outfielders to adjust for sun conditions.

I would have noticed a watch on the guy by the 2nd heartbeat upon seeing him.


My mandate was hats had to worn square. I allowed brims to be worn as they wanted, but it had to be on your head straight. Nothing crooked.

We had to dress as a team. That was the first thing I checked. To me, that is coaching 101. Dress as a team.

Freddie our coach now....it doesn't matter if he deserved it or not...

Williams and crew should have been retained...

Product on field game one was very "hueish"!

We will see, but I am not holding my breadth.

OBJackarse, the next AB...

Delanie Walker disagrees. He says we already know what kind of team this is: "they were who we thought they were"

So does bouncing back against a bad Jets team really prove Delanie Walker wrong? I don't think so.

Nothing proves Delanie wrong. They had the great gameplan to upset our players and it worked.

He's just being redundant and a sore winner. Obviously they are what you thought, the plan worked.

Our players need to just ignore that noise and learn not to let the crooked Refs get under their skin and we can still win 10+ games this year.

This is a great thread topic. Seriously. I am very hopeful that we will win big this year. Here is my reality:
(1) I was thrilled when the team started winning games after Hue was let go
(2) I liked Greg before Hue was let go because of his personality
(3) I was upset when Greg was let go because I liked him and when Kitchens was announced I barely had any idea who he was and I thought “what are they doing?”
(4) Was told that Kitchens was the real reason for the Browns success. OK. I’ll buy that. Seems a little odd though. But will buy it. But I get it sort of.
(5) Browns add some quality pieces... like OBJ, Kareem Hunt, etc. we look good on paper.
(6) The thoughts I had about items #1 thru #4 disappeared from my head as the months went by.
(7) Sunday morning I was so very much wanting to get great seats for the game but ultimately decided to stay home instead of spend $400/ticket for lower level seats on stubhub. Feeling regrets for not going.
(8) Familiar feeling of Browns despair, apathy, numbness, whatever you want to call that feeling, setting in, by 3rd quarter. Knew I dodged a bullet by not going to the game and spending money. By this point I had no emotion if the Browns did anything good or bad in the game because I knew the team seemingly had major problems to overcome and reality had set back in.

So somehow I gave them the benefit of the doubt all these months. Freddie gets some time yes. But don’t expect me to eat crap sandwiches after they just gave us Hue Jackson and that 1-31 nonsense his first two seasons. We deserve better.

This makes no sense to me. Turnovers and penalties are almost always a huge part of who wins/loses the game. Outside of actual wins/losses, turnover differential is the most important stat out there. Penalties put you in terrible down and distance situations on offense and give the other team first downs and better field position on defense.

Teams that lose the turnover battle and have a plethora of unforced penalties typically do not win on any level.

I agree. You can't keep playing behind the chains if you want to have any realistic expectation to win the game.

I also think if you keep playing behind the chains, turnovers increase. The O tries to force things and the D can take more chances.

Wasn't it the opposite?

It was D that was undisciplined and unprepared and that contaminated O?

It was both.

My point was obvious.

A team who turns the ball over and has too many penalties deserves to lose. And they will continue to lose if they don't start playing w/more discipline and focus.

I may have misunderstood you. I apologize if that is the case.

Different perspectives is what brings about good debate.



I don't really see a need for that.



They certainly did not. I just think most of the things we're seeing now, such as commercials and photo shoots were done during their down time. I'm not sure that I can make a connection that things done a month or two ago impacted them during the game last week.

If anything, I would tend to lean more on the fact that both the starting line up of both the D and O units didn't get hardly any reps playing together during preseason and all new systems take some time to gel.

But that still doesn't account for the total melt down. The needless penalties I have a problem trying to explain.

The way I saw it, we had a good opening drive from O, and then D with all the penalties just took over.

Kitchens reacted the wrong way, he should have gone conservative in Offense, until the D got their act together. He could never win the game without a change in the team spirit.

We could all sense the team melting, he should have minimized losses, avoid messing with the QB head and chances of him getting hurt. The game was lost, he shouldn't gamble the whole season. Now we have a D and O problem....

Many red flags from Kitchens,hope he gets his act together with the Jets or its going to be an ugly year.