DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Seattle is High On Frye

I put this here as a separate thread only, because it deals with what might turn out to be another good player who's career was ruined in Cleveland and maybe resurrected in other city. Next off-season we have to find a reliable veteran QB, even if it means breaking the bank. Let Brady stand with the clipboard and learn. I don't understand why this concept is so hard to follow. Tom Brady had to do it, and I'm sure other young QBs also had to wait their turn and their is not when the situation was presented to them but when they were ready to take on the situation. JMHO

When Cleveland drafted Akron quarterback Charlie Frye in the third round of the 2005 draft, the Seattle Seahawks were disappointed they didn’t get their chance at him.

But the Seahawks scouting reports on Frye also spelled out instructions that the Browns didn’t seem to follow.

Seattle’s scouting reports said that, given time and given patience, Frye could turn into a superb NFL quarterback. But the report warned the Seahawks not to rush along Frye, to make sure he had a fair amount of time to watch and learn from the bench, and then he would be more prepared to succeed on the next level.

In Cleveland, for a brief amount of time, Frye was viewed as the franchise’s answer at quarterback. But he was inserted into the starting lineup quicker than some in Seattle thought he should have been, and now the Browns are dealing with a similar issue involving first-round pick Brady Quinn.

One NFL executive said the Browns fiercest challenge is going to be holding off all the calls to insert Quinn and to give him the time that Frye did not get.

It is why the Seahawks were willing to trade a sixth-round pick for the quarterback that, only two-plus years ago, was a third-round pick. Seattle thinks that Frye is going to get the time he needs to marinate, to learn. He also is going to get terrific coaching from Seahawks quarterbacks coach Jim Zorn and head coach Mike Holmgren, who helped mold Joe Montana, Steve Young, Brett Favre and Matt Hasselbeck.

Source

Good luck to Charlie (just not against us).

...like your sig Stabber...

I can't think of any players whose careers were resurrected after they left here.

Just sayin'.

Hey, if Seattle's high on a poor man's Michael Vick (as a QB, not as a person), then that's fine with me...

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Next off-season we have to find a reliable veteran QB, even if it means breaking the bank. Let Brady stand with the clipboard and learn. I don't understand why this concept is so hard to follow.

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You want him to sit two years, plus potentially "break the bank" on another QB? I'm trying to remember the last quarterback that did that and succeeded... Steve McNair? I don't really want to see that much of Brady this year, but I fully expect him to play next season. If it was a late-round player we are talking about, sure, but Quinn came from a pro-style offense and should be ready at year's end, IMO.

Oh man stabber, please don't tell me you want Quinn to sit this year AND next., That will never fly.. NEVER! Not with these fans, not with this coaching staff and certainly not with Quinn..

Ammo:

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I can't think of any players whose careers were resurrected after they left here.

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Well, other players have stuck and had a little success but i too am having a hard time thinking of players that made us say "Doh!! we let one get away!" The Browncos? Quincy? KJ? Ben Taylor?

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Oh man stabber, please don't tell me you want Quinn to sit this year AND next., That will never fly.. NEVER! Not with these fans, not with this coaching staff and certainly not with Quinn..

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If he's ready i see no reason whatsoever making him sit.....thats the crux of it for me. No point having a ferrarri in the garage and driving around in a clapped out Morris Minor.

So i guess the question is, is he ready? Just coz he's a rook and with what happened to Couch behind a pants O line i think (some) fans feel a little snakebit. Sitting him for sittings sake. For every Palmer there's a Manning, take each QB on his merits if you ask me.

i think frye is much more similar to jeff garcia, than michael vick. i think frye might've been ok w/ a couple of years to learn n watch,

...and the right system. notice trend here with trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. it's no wonder we keep losing, we have yet to at least stabilize the position (save for derek anderson becoming good overnight ) so we don't keep calling for the next saviour once we've ruined our previous "next great qb"

i wish charlie the best

I still think Frye is going to become a very good QB... and he will probably have a very long career. Maybe not as a starter, but he will be in the league as someone's backup at the least.

Paul Warfield

Faine and byner were the only ones I can think of,,, McCardell left with the Browns in 96 I thought. I think he went to Baltimore for a year hten went south.

Eric Turner had a decent career after he left Baltimore,, Eric Metcalf kinda just floated around after the Trade,,, Clay Matthews was ok for Atlanta but he was at the end of his career by then. Toni Jones went to Denver and got two rings,, Rob Burnett got one with Baltimore.. But again, we didn't lose either of them from Cleveland,,they went to Baltimore when the Browns moved,,

Kosar finally got a SB Ring in Dallas, but never starred again. Webster Slaughter did ok in Houston and reggie Langhorne was good for a year or two with the Colts.


I seem to remember Brian Brennan with the Bengals but I don't remember him being great or anything with them.

Tell you what, there may be some, but I don't remember one that really had a spectacular career after the Browns except Byner..

There was a LB by the name of Chip Banks that was pretty good,, I remember he left the Browns, went to the Colts and he harrassed the heck out of Kosar one game,,, He was successful but again, Byner I think was the best we lost in at least the last 25 years or so..

So all in all, I think that anyone that makes a statement like, "when guys leave the browns, the go on to great success" then they haven't done much research

Every team in the league has some of those I suppose, but dang, I can't think of many for the Browns... But I probably missed someone. but I bet I didn't miss a lot of them...

what was the name of the KC QB that played for Stram and got a ring,,,, Dang, I'm having a problem remembering his name. he was a host on INside the NFL on HBO for a number of years.... dang Didn't he play for Cleveland,, or at least, wasn't he on the team for a very short time...

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Clay Matthews was ok for Atlanta

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Thanks man,,,I completely forgot Mathews played for another team,....Kinda would have liked to have kept it that way

I also wanted to start my own thread but didnt know if it would be deleted so i put it in the Frye traded thread. It is more fitting in this one though so Im reposting it in this one. I thought it was a good article from the Seattle point of view. Holmgreen has way more experiance turning QBs into NFL players then anyone on the Browns coaching staff put together.

From starter to scout team in 48 hours: Stunned Frye arrives in Seattle

By GREGG BELL, AP Sports Writer
September 12, 2007



KIRKLAND, Wash. (AP) -- Charlie Frye fidgeted. He spun the ball between his hands. He pantomimed a throwing motion, complete with a hip turn and follow through.

All this, while quarterbacks Matt Hasselbeck and Seneca Wallace ran plays he'd never seen, in a place in which he knows almost no one.

When he finally got the chance to join his new Seattle Seahawks teammates in a huddle, Frye didn't even get to run their plays. He peered up to read diagrammed schemes of the Arizona Cardinals, the Seahawks' opponent this week. A coach was holding those up from the pages of a three-ring binder for 11 practice squad prospects and reserves.

From NFL starter to scout team ... in 48 hours.

"It is a little shocking," Frye said, still appearing stunned after his first practice since the Cleveland Browns traded their starting quarterback to the Seahawks for a sixth-round draft pick.

Since the NFL and AFL merged in 1970, no quarterback had ever started an opener and been traded before Week 2.

"It's never happened? Really?" Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren said.

As Frye said, "There is a first time for everything."

Seattle's Gil Haskell is the Frye's fifth offensive coordinator since 2004, his senior season at Akron.

"I'm going to have a pretty balanced football IQ. There isn't an offense that I won't have at least a little bit of experience in," the 24-year-old Frye joked.

"I'm just trying to find the positives. That's just the way I am. Coming out here, being with coach Holmgren and his track record with quarterbacks, and being with Matt and Seneca, I think it's going to be a positive situation for me."

Eventually, perhaps. But not immediately.

It's going to take weeks just for Frye to learn Seattle's plays. When he does, Hasselbeck will still be starting. And Wallace, who went 2-2 when Hasselbeck was injured last season, will be the backup.

Before being benched -- and traded -- Frye was 4-for-10 with one interception and five sacks in less than one half of Cleveland's embarrassing, 34-7 loss at home to Pittsburgh on Sunday. The Browns then decided Derek Anderson, now, and Brady Quinn, soon, was their answer at quarterback. Frye left Cleveland 6-13 as a starter.

"If I was him I would feel kind of bad about that whole deal," Holmgren said. "He said, 'I'm so excited to be there.' I said, 'Well, I appreciate that. But you are probably a little shocked, aren't you?' And he goes, 'Yeah.' And then we got down to it, how he really felt.

"I've been around quarterbacks a long time, and that would a hard one to deal with. We will bring him along. He's a bright guy. And I think there is a little bit of a period here where he has to figure out what happened. And then once that's happened, we'll start teaching him our stuff."

On Wednesday, quarterbacks coach Jim Zorn was showing Fyre the fundamentals of footwork in Holmgren's intricate West Coast offense. Zorn also explained the plays Hasselbeck was running with the first-team offense. Zorn and Frye then stayed on the field running plays with four reserve receivers for 20 minutes after practice.

"I think it will be humbling for him at first. I know it is," Zorn said.

Frye would say only of his Cleveland days, "I think when you put a lot of time in something and really dedicate yourself to something, you want to see the other side of it. But this is the NFL. Change happens all the time and you just have to take advantage of your opportunities."

Frye did find one familiar face in Seattle. Safety Brian Russell played the previous two seasons in Cleveland.

"For him, I'm sure it's awkward. Just crazy," Russell said. "But this is probably a blessing in disguise for him."


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-seahawks-frye&prov=ap&type=lgns

Anthony Henry? He starts in Dallas doesn't he?


As for Quinn... I really get that he could learn on the fly like Alex Smith... guy's coming around if he had a line he'd be that much better. Quinn has a line... and will look magnificent in a couple games or so. So if everything falls into place I truly think that you put Quinn in after the bye. (That is... if he knows the Playbook like the back of his hand)

all that may be so, but I would also think that they would have to justify the trade to their fan base, AND, it isn't like he's expected to start soon.

So they trade a, what, a late round draft pick for backup who was someone else's starter. Not a bad move on their part.

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what was the name of the KC QB that played for Stram and got a ring,,,, Dang, I'm having a problem remembering his name. he was a host on INside the NFL on HBO for a number of years.... dang Didn't he play for Cleveland,, or at least, wasn't he on the team for a very short time...

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Len Dawson...Ahh back in the days when Inside the NFL was an enjoyable show full of hilights to watch..now.....ah well that's for another thread.

Had to wikipedia it....Drafted by the Steelers, but played for the Browns for a year or two. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Len_Dawson

Imagine that... a team that's high on a guy they just traded for...

what are they going to say? that he sucks but they took him anyway?

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So all in all, I think that anyone that makes a statement like, "when guys leave the browns, the go on to great success" then they haven't done much research

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That wasn't the statement in this case, it was:

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because it deals with what might turn out to be another good player who's career was ruined in Cleveland and maybe resurrected in other city.

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Now how many of those players you mentioned had their careers "ruined" in Cleveland?
The statement in the initial post read to me like Cleveland is a graveyard for players and i don't think thats the case. Who's career have we ruined and then have gone on to great success?

not sure if it was posted here... i saw on kffl yesterday that good old chuck threw 2 picks in 7 on 7s in wed or thurs practice with them. somethings never change.

In the interest of fairness, i think it was reported that he threw a sweet deep TD in those same drills.

This is and has been being discussed in another Frye thread well before this one... This thread seems to be a duplicate, IMO... But what do I know...

I'm not a Frye guy... Don't see it and never have... But who am I...

Here is one of many in the other thread...

Guys... A little northwest slant on the Seacocks/Frye trade...

The Seasparrows have wanted and been high on Frye since college. The had him on their board to draft, C-Town took him before they did...

The Fishhawks and Holmgren believe that CF can develop into a quality WCO type NFL QB... They believe that with the proper time, enviornment, experience and coaching that CF could be the replacement for MH... I read this and watched this on FSNW...

Here is one article from the Seattle area... A recent article from the Seahawks site of media archives...

Last updated September 12, 2007 11:56 p.m. PT

New QB getting crash course in Seahawks' lexicon
By CLARE FARNSWORTH
P-I REPORTER

KIRKLAND -- More than getting used to his new teammates and coaches, or even the unsettling situation of going from Sunday starter to Wednesday scout-team quarterback, Charlie Frye's biggest adjustment in his first day as a member of the Seahawks was learning a new language.

Welcome to the verbiage that comes with communicating in coach Mike Holmgren's hybrid of the West Coast offense.

"We're learning the new language first," quarterbacks coach Jim Zorn said after helping Frye through his first practice and first day. "It's hard to know what he's going to be able to do early until he learns the language that we speak."

For now, Zorn and the quarterback who was acquired in a trade with the Cleveland Browns on Tuesday will communicate in a form of football shorthand. Zorn knows the language of the Browns' offense from his days as the quarterbacks coach with the Detroit Lions.

What Frye knew as a deep-six route in Cleveland is a dig route with the Seahawks. What he learned as an over-sync with the Browns is a 57-front in Seattle.

"That's how we'll talk in the beginning," Zorn said. "So we'll transfer what he did know to what he's going to know."

Frye wasn't a complete stranger in a completely strange land.

The cubicle of free safety Brian Russell is just two down from Frye's in the locker room, and they were friends and golfing buddies the past two seasons in Cleveland.

"Charlie is a great guy," said Russell, who signed with the Seahawks in free agency. "You love his work ethic. He's tough as nails. He's a guy you like to line up with. He practices hard. Works hard."

Frye also got a couple of phone calls from Trent Dilfer on Wednesday morning. Dilfer, now the backup quarterback in San Francisco, was the Browns' starter in 2005, the year Frye was selected in the third round of the draft. Dilfer, of course, also spent four seasons with the Seahawks before orchestrating his trade to the Browns.

"Trent thinks this is going to be a great situation for me, and that's a guy I really look up to," Frye said. "That being said, I'm really excited about the situation I'm in."

Zorn also can relate to the mental adjustment Frye is being forced to make. Zorn lost his starting job with the Seahawks midway through the 1983 season and then was released in 1984.

"Going from being a starter to our No. 3, he has to adjust," Zorn said. "I think it will be humbling for him at first. I know it is. As he works though the emotion and gets into our program, hopefully he'll find it rewarding.

"The worst part is going from being a starter to a backup -- somebody playing your position."

Everyone -- from Holmgren, to Zorn, to club president Tim Ruskell -- also reiterated that Frye is not the quarterback the club has been seeking who will allow backup Seneca Wallace to be used as a situational receiver, runner and punt returner. Not yet, anyway.

"Now let's all just slow down here just a little bit on that one," Holmgren said. "Maybe we are in that situation, but it won't be for a while. It will not be for a while. So we just have to wait just a little bit with that."

While it might sound crazy, going from being the starter with the Browns to a backup with the Seahawks is probably an improved situation for Frye. In Cleveland, he was rushed into the starting role before he was ready. This season, he was babysitting the position until first-round draft choice Brady Quinn was ready to step in.

Those in Cleveland said you could read the stress of the situation in Frye's body language.

Frye didn't go there on his first day with his new team, opting to spin everything forward and in a positive direction.

"When you put a lot of time into something and really dedicate yourself to something, you want to see the other side of it," he said. "But this the NFL. Change happens all the time. You just have to take advantage of your opportunities. This is a great opportunity for me and I'm definitely going to take advantage of it."

But there were others to utter what Frye must have been thinking.

"For this to happen so fast, I'm sure it's awkward and crazy," Russell said. "But that's the NFL, and this is probably a blessing in disguise for him.

"For him, this is a great opportunity. Charlie has been with a young group of quarterbacks. From that perspective, it's always good to have a guy like Matt Hasselbeck and a guy like Seneca Wallace who can kind of share knowledge."

Not to mention their mastery of the new language Frye is playing catch-up to learn.

Good luck CF... You're in a better place right now.

Well, Good Luck Chuck.

Most QBs seem to come out of school with that kind of label on them anymore. We all thought Frye would get that time behind T.D but they traded T.D and never gave him the benefit of any kind of veteran mentorship after that.

He started all last season with the presumption that he was the starter and the team would stay with him through the growing pains because signing a veteran backup wasn't on the "to do" list for the off season, then we go out and draft Quinn... talk about mixed signals. This pre season couldn't have been any better, a coin toss to start the game, solid but unspectacular, and good enough to win the starting job and then after the coaching staff fails to adjust to constant blitz pressure from Pittsburgh and Frye has looked like a tackling dummy and been sacked 6 times in about 1 1/2 quarters of play, they bench him and then 2 days later, they trade him.

I hope he does hit it big in Seattle. (I want Quinn to pan out too) This is one I hope R.C. and Savage are wrong on. I just hope he hasn't been shell shocked into regression.

Different atmosphere. We are desparate, trying not to look like doormats and they are confident with a progression of players learning the system. Isn't this the way its supposed to be? We had the last three years to get a veteran and allow our new guy to learn. Who thinks it will change with Quinn?

re·dun·dan·cy /rɪˈdʌndənsi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-duhn-duhn-see] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -cies. 1. the state of being redundant.
2. superfluous repetition or overlapping, esp. of words.
3. a redundant thing, part, or amount; superfluity.
4. the provision of additional or duplicate systems, equipment, etc., that function in case an operating part or system fails, as in a spacecraft.
5. Linguistics. a. the inclusion of more information than is necessary for communication, as in those cars, where both words are marked for plurality.
b. the additional, predictable information so included.
c. the degree of predictability thereby created.

6. Chiefly British. a. the condition or fact of being unemployed; unemployment.
b. a layoff.

I'm glad all the QB controversy b/w Frye and Dilfer didn't burn any bridges b/w their friendship...

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Not saying any of these guys are HOF'rs but on a team as chronicly starved for talent as ours many of these players could have contributed

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yep, these guys are victims of contantly changing schemes

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O'Hara - Bum here / Starter for the Giants

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No teams will clamour for him if he became available. Pre Savage era he was gone, i believe we played him out of position.

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Faine- Bum here / Starter for the Saints

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Bad match up with NT's in the North, i'm sure he'll look like a bum again when he comes up against Hampton.

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Garcia- Bum here / Starter for Philly / Starter for Tampa

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System QB and Botch gave him the shaft.

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Crocker- Starter for Atlanta

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And still average.......we didn't ruin his career, and it ain't been resurrected.

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Henry- Starter for Dallas

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See Crocker

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GW- Started 2-3 years in Denver / Starter in Oakland

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Your point? Does "Starter" = "Quality"....he sucks. He sucked here, he sucked in Denver and i'll bet my house he'll suck whereever he goes.

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QM- played with Pitt & Denver for 3-4 years

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I'm smelling agenda now......oh woe is me....i rue the day that Warren and Morgan left.

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Verba- started for Detroit for 1-2 years

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Either you are missing the point or i am.......players whose careers were ruined by Cleveland and whose careers were resurrected elsewhere, you give me Verba, Quincy and Warren......ok i'm gonna stop....y'know, before i get to Shea, KJ and Lang