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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,651
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,651 |
You forgot Roman Oben.
The list offered does not thrill me. Marginal players are marginal players, and the ultimate point is that a team needs to hit on 3 to 4 productive players in each draft order to become a good team.
e.g. 2004 Chargers
Philip Rivers - Starter
Igor Olshansky - Starter
Kaeting - Starter
Hardwick - Starter
Phillips - Starter
Turner - Will be starter.
Ball - Out of League
Olivea - Starter
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,070
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,070 |
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Faine, O'Hara, Garcia, Crocker - all got run out of town labeled at "bums" that either "never had it or lost it". Each of them has proven they can start and contribute on better teams.
Outside of Garcia,....we have better talent at those positions now,....and beleive it or not,there is starters on other teams that wouldn't start here.
Just because a guy is sent packing from a team doesn't mean he's a bum either,......Stein,LB,...Peek just to name a few.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224 |
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Faine, O'Hara, Garcia, Crocker
Too damn selective IMO. Your own list initially had the likes of Shea, KJ, Warren at al would you take 'em back? seriously? Faine over Bentley/Fraley?? c'mon...play straight........players knock around the league, we see them come in and we see them go.....i still don't see any players in your list, or mentioned by other posters whose career "we ruined" and went on to have their careers resurrected with any kind of wonderful success....load of bunkum.....try again
#gmstrong
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165 |
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i still don't see any players in your list, or mentioned by other posters whose career "we ruined" and went on to have their careers resurrected with any kind of wonderful success....load of bunkum.....try again
If you can't see the obvious there's nothing I can do to change that 
Faine, Garcia, GW, Henry, EE all went on to make PLAYOFF STARTS with other teams and Crocker, OHara, and Lang either made playoff starts or came very close as well.
If you don't think shipping PLAYOFF STARTERS out the door hurts this team then maybe you should watch the Browns/Steelers season opener again.
But if you want to pretend we can afford to lose quality starters go ahead  
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 890
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 890 |
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Imagine that... a team that's high on a guy they just traded for...
what are they going to say? that he sucks but they took him anyway?
Thats the same thing I was thinking.
![[Linked Image from i4.photobucket.com]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Defiantmac/nickk2.jpg) PRO-BOWLER!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224 |
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If you can't see the obvious there's nothing I can do to change that
Faine, Garcia, GW, Henry, EE all went on to make PLAYOFF STARTS with other teams and Crocker, OHara, and Lang either made playoff starts or came very close as well.
If you don't think shipping PLAYOFF STARTERS out the door hurts this team then maybe you should watch the Browns/Steelers season opener again.
But if you want to pretend we can afford to lose quality starters go ahead
What a joke.
You want O'Hara/Faine over Bentley and Fraley.
You want Garcia over BQ
Crocker?? He's a Crock alright 
Henry over Bodden and Wright, as i said before, the Henry deal was a Botch.
Warren over.....who? You'd get more production from me playing even with a bum knee.
Quincy Morgan FFS? Wow....we sure lost some "Quality Starters"
Verba over Thomas----i'll give you this one mate, any team that lets the 3rd best LT in the league to just walk out deserves everything they get.
Holcomb.....not even bothering this with a response....oops
Mike Myers, Ekuban, Lang and hell, chuck us Warren again....how quick people forget how putrid those jokes for linemen were.....you must've forgotten when these "Quality Starters" were getting raped by even mediocre RB's. The D line in C town will be addressed next.
Lehan? Starter in Miami? GMAB I'll take our DB's anyday.
Shea's a starter too and you'd take him over K2 right? I mean, y'know, we can't afford to let quality starters leave and become valuable contributers on contending teams
Wali Rainer- Starter in DET for years....yeah, the perennial playoff contending Detroit
Kevin Johnson- Played well for several other teams after leaving CLE - Played well for who?? What a joke.
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If you can't see the obvious there's nothing I can do to change that
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
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Outside of Garcia,....we have better talent at those positions now
A system QB that doesn't fit our system, i'll take my chances with BQ
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and beleive it or not,there is starters on other teams that wouldn't start here.
Such as Shea, Lehan, QM, GW and....well, you get the picture.....pretty much everyone on Gift Horses' list of Quality Starters. 
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Just because a guy is sent packing from a team doesn't mean he's a bum either,......Stein,LB,...Peek just to name a few.
Exactamundo 
#gmstrong
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,070
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,070 |
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Quote:
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Outside of Garcia,....we have better talent at those positions now
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A system QB that doesn't fit our system, i'll take my chances with BQ
me too....without a doubt......I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt and going with our current starter.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502 |
All QB's are system QB's... What in the heck is it you guys are trying to say? What is the specific point you are trying to make?  Name any team NFL or otherwise that doesn't employ/have/use a certain offensive "system"...?  All players have strenths and weaknesses... Certain teams choose certain players based upon those areas, skill sets, mental capabilities, physical traits and their "systems"... Systems are what they are... Every team has them... They are not excuses for players that don't produce... Stop with the tired, flawed reasoning and get to the actaul point you are trying to make... Say what you mean... If you really know... Sorry, just tired of the constant endless drivel, mental master__tion and never ending verbal diareha... 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224 |
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What in the heck is it you guys are trying to say? What is the specific point you are trying to make?
Probably a good idea to read the whole thread of this specifice debate and not just the last couple of posts.
We're trying to convince an agenda driven poster why some players were kept over others. (I know he's agenda driven, just view his Savage building through the draft post )
Theres an explanation for each and every one of his NFL all-stars list of Shea, Warren, Quincey et al and why they are no longer here.
Basically they fall into the category of
a:) They don't fit the system
b:) They Suck
or
c:) All of the above
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All QB's are system QB's...
Yes, yes, yes....we get it  You've shaken the wrong tree, it's not me and Cal you should be trying to convince. And not just QB's either, ie changing from a 4-3 to a 3- 4, but you knew that too. Explains why some players are no longer with the team like innit. Easy.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 502 |
I have read the entire post... Did you not notice my other reply's here...? No worries. I clealry see you realize why players are traded and aren't Browns any more... I realize why they are no longer Browns too... Most all of them were poor picks from the jump... I would not of made those choices, but who am I? Since this is a CF thread I stayed focused on CF... Not other players... Terms like "system... " are stupid... Most of the time here, the reason it's used is because their is little to no knowledge of the topic or the player being discussed... Why would someone think just because Joe Montana played @ ND in their system. he can't fit it the WCO and beocme one of the greatist QB ever...? A- Cause they have no clue about what they speak... Who knew about Favre, Bradshaw, Fouts, Moon, Young,... To name a few, just a handful... They were all system QB's... No, the above comments are not a QB comparrison to CF... Only some examples...
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