DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Offensive Scheme

J/C - I'v not posted or read much at all since that car wreck Sunday.

The posts on here are spot on. We ran the ball really effectively against TEN (over 5ypc) and I understand we were always playing catch-up. However, when we were went 2 scores down in the 4th, we abandoned the run completely.

We still had time to take chunks on the floor and set up PA. We did neither.

Freddie orchestrated the offensive turnaround last year and I expect us to run and run some more on the Jets. As evidenced here, GW defenses can be run on - and I like him as a coach, it's not a slight on him. I would also say that the long developing plays we say Sunday need to go - GW will play for the turnovers despite them having a not great secondary.

Run Chubb, max protect Baker, take the small gains and sprinkle in the odd, I won't call trick play (like the Landry runs last year), but make it simple and quick.

If only Joe T could have made this season. Man....

I will add - with our receiving talent, ww should excel at maximising the returns out of PA or a RPO offense. They won't stack the box because they wil be terrified OBJ will rip them over the top but if we continue to take 4, 5,6 yards a run, they will have to.

I want us to dictate what happens when the offense is on the field. It was the other way around on Sunday.

Offensive Scheme??

You mean we have one?

News to me.

I know most of the board doesn't think the scheme and personnel packages are a big deal, but there are some former NFL guys who agree w/me.

I was listening to the show w/Rex Ryan, Tedi Bruschi, Moss, and M. Hassleback yesterday and they were discussing how the scheme really hurt the Browns last Sunday. The plays were slow-developing and that is what caused a lot of the pressure on Baker. They were talking about how OBJ and Landry were actually open and that we should get them the ball quicker and let them do their thing. Rex said there was a lot of pressure on Freddie to get this fixed.

Moss was sent to Cleveland to have a sit-down w/OBJ and Landry. They showed a brief clip and that is what got the discussion started. They are going to show the full interview tonight. I think coverage starts at 6:00, if anyone is interested.

Freddie will take the heat and he is the HC. But, I think this change in philosophy is from Monken. I just don't think our OL and Baker are ready for such a scheme. And I also believe this will be one of the most important decisions we make in regards to our success this season.

Good point about the QUICK passing game ... IMO, get it to OBJ right away. Slants, screens, quick outs, etc ... no need to always wait for him to get open deep

We are definitely running different personnel versus last year. But who comes off the field and who goes on? We have no depth at tight end and no fullback on the roster.

Good point about the TEs and FB. And the fact that they moved on from guys like Fells and Charles and don't even have a FB, is scaring me.

I could be wrong, but I really don't think we are a better team by relying so much on the 11 Personnel package.

And you KNOW this how? Exactly? You KNOW it. Whatever.

Or is this akin to Baker having thrown a hissy fit?

Good points.

I worry because Monken's offense in TB was a big-play, high-risk offense that didn't run the ball much and gave up a lot of QB pressures and committed too many turnovers.

I hope we go back to doing more of what we did last year.

No doubt Monken has had input. He isn't calling plays, so he has to be doing something else.

Just because we have OBJ doesn't mean he needs to be the focus of the O. We need to do a better job of taking what is given.

It is critical about what we plan to do because we MUST win this game because winning 1 of the next 2 is going to be a chore.

Just my opinion, but I could see this as a logical way things may have progressed to this point.

In short...
Monken is pretty well respected for his offensive "prowess". Freddie hires him with the caveat that he will be calling plays. The compromise is the agreement to install Monken's offense. The offense stalls week one and the NFL applies a sense of urgency like no other league. Freddie says things need to be "dialed back" immediately to put Baker and the OLine in a position to succeed. He assures Monken that nothing is being scrapped but a happy medium is needed until we see the consistent, high-powered offensive output that the talent dictates we should expect.

We'll find out how true this may or may not be in a few hours.

Salient point.

Like I said in a previous post, I think the likeliest culprit for the Rams-esque reliance on 11 personnel is a lack of trust in the tight ends, and I can’t really fault the coaching staff for that. I don’t trust Demetrius Harris or Pharaoh Brown, either.

But I think the blending of Kitchen’s and Monken’s philosophies could be part of the problem, too. In 2018, the Buccaneers spent 70% of their time in 11 personnel. And, out of 11 personnel, they had a 70-30 pass-run split with 8.4 YPA and 4.4 YPC. They spent only 17% of their time in 12 personnel and 2% of their time in 13 personnel despite having O.J. Howard and Cameron Brate as options at tight end.

Once Kitchens took over, the Browns spent 55% of their time in 11 personnel. Out of 11 personnel, the Browns had a 72-28 pass-run split with 8.6 YPA and 5.2 YPC. But the Browns spent 18% of their time in 12 personnel and 16% of their time in 13 personnel. In such scenarios, the Browns were more effective than the Buccaneers at running the ball, and much more effective passing the ball. The Browns were 44-of-57 for 585 yards with 4 touchdowns and 1 interception in heavy formations.

That said, I expect we will know more about our offensive scheme after tonight. I anticipate Gregg Williams is going to dial up frequent blitzes/man coverage and challenge our offensive line and receiving options. We’ll see how Kitchens and Monken respond. If it’s heavier personnel or faster-developing route combinations.

Thanks for providing the personnel percentages. I love stats like that.

I hope Baker doesn't throw more than 25 times. We need to run the ball early and often. With Baker under center. Then hit them with the play-action. I hope we give them a huge dose of Chubb tonight. Just line up and punch them in the mouth. But we have an OC that loves the air-raid so I don't expect to see that.

I want to see 30+ combined running plays, even if they're going for 1.x years per carry.

Get back to fundamentals, and fundamental #1 is run the ball,


If they can do that, they'll have a chance to win the game, slow the game down, get greater time of possession, and eliminate the two bad possible outcomes of a passing play,

If they can't do that, or make progress toward it, then it's time to consider taking offensive playcalling duties away from the head coach.

The 2 minute offense is called that for a reason, it's only supposed to be gone to in the last 2 minutes of a game or half.


If they come out, and run the 2 minute offense in the first 5 minutes of the first quarter tonight, and every game,

then this team will lose 10 times.

3rd and 7, Run the ball
3rd and 8, Run the ball
3rd and 16, Run the b-play action pass.

1st and 25, RUN THE BALL!

I hope this weeks offensive scheme is not another clown show:

sign that cart immediately.. Look at those broken tackles and yards after contact

Hold on there little doggy.

Need better balance. Still pass happy at the half way mark.

Run Chubb

This what happens when our offense doesn't move the ball

I think the safety we took last week says it all.
1st and 11 on the 2 yard line.
Every receiver runs straight up field past the 15 and out of camera.

Stopped

Come on move the ball run Chubb

TOUCHDOWN BROWNS!!!!!!!!

OBJ

Interested to see the percentage of the personnel packages. We mixed it up more last night, but I still want to see the breakdown.

Yeah, I noticed us mixing it up too .. I tried to keep track of how many TE’s we were using. I think it’ll be a bit more evened out this week (especially without Higgins probably).

Obviously the big drawback is our TE’s are quite bad, and it’s even worse when Njoku came out

I noticed that we had 3 TEs in the game at the same time late in the game.

Presnap motion is like getting some answers to the test prior to the test. It often reveals whether the defense is in man or zone and/or who is blitzing.

I feel like we haven't used much presnap motion so far this season. Has anyone noticed anything?

It's hard to use pre-snap motion when we are constantly getting to the line late in the play clock and snapping the ball with 1 second left on the play clock

Bingo .. Baker can’t even freaking get 2 seconds most time .. he’s hurrying, hurrying ... snapping, then just reacting lol

Like others, I've noticed that we are getting to the line with :05 on the play clock.. no time for motion, no time to get a good presnap read, no time to change the play...

Good point. I remember one of the announcers during the preseason pointing out how much motion Freddie ran last year after he took over. And you are right, we haven't seem it much this year.

I have concerns over Monken's influence and I don't think we're built for 11 Personnel considering our OTs and QB.

I'm still hoping someone will post the percentages on last nights game. It was better than week one, but I would like to see the specifics.