DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Will Mayfield work head enough to be great?

I can say all of this with conviction because my son was quarterback for 5 years and he is still a pitcher of 7 years.

Last fall, my son broke his elbow during fallball. He couldn't start workouts until 2 months later than usual. It took him about 1.5 months to catch up from where he was the previous year against his growth expectations.

Baker simply hasn't looked better than he did at the end of last year.

can't unsee it now.

File this under the pot calling the kettle black.

J/c

I’m not sure that any of us has the evidence to question Baker’s work ethic and dedication to his craft in the offseason. Not saying he’s Tom Brady ... not saying he’s Johnny Manziel.

I think his big hurdle is not just the offense, but adjusting to other teams’ adjustments to him. That’s where he’ll start improving now

Guys, please don't take this as me bagging on Mayfield. I just don't think he put in the film time during the off season that he needed to and the tape shows that. I really think he thought this year would be like last year, wake up call to him is this isn't college, this isn't Oklahoma, you can't get by on athletic ability/arm strength alone.

Look at last years tape most of Mayfield's throws were 1st read quick hitting passes, this year he is being forced to read defenses and so far he hasn't been able to do it hence why he has twice as many picks as TD's.

Right now Mason Rudolph is SIGNIFICANTLY ahead of Baker Mayfield in his development of being able to read defenses. Numerous times last Sunday, Pete Carol and company showed different pre-snap and post snap coverages to Rudolph(like Willaims did to Baker) and Rudolph was quick to recognize the coverage and throw the ball to the correct area Whereas Mayfield struggled with this big time.

You think Williams is a decent coordinator, just wait till next week with Wade Phillips...he is the 2nd best defensive mind the NFL only behind Bellichik. I won't be one bit suprised if Mayfield doesn't struggle. Hopefully he doesn't, but its a real possibility...he looked completely lost Monday night, He failed a basic test of being an NFL QB.

Its easy to do the math and figure out why Mason Rudolph was able to easily recognize man coverage despite Seattle showing Cover 2, cover 3, cover 4, and even man coverage pre-snap than changing to a different coverages.

Its because Mason Rudolph clearly spent a hell of a lot of time in the film room this off season studying. He didn't look completely lost and confused like Mayfield did Monday Night. I think we will see a whole lot more of this and nothing short of an offseason worth of film study is going to fix this, its too late now into the season he has to do the gameplan from week to week...this is Bakers fault for thinking he had the NFL figured out...

I warned people of this last year...Baker is going to have to study hard if he wants to be an NFL QB...you can't get by on talent alone at this level. I know he walked on at college, I know he Won the Heisman, I know he set records...but most of that is done on pure athletic ability and talent...He just didn't understand the type of study and film watching it takes to be a great NFL QB..its a lot of boring time, and a huge time commitment...

When Peyton Manning came into the league as a rookie, sure he played well, set records...know what he done that 1st offseason? He spent it studying film, watching guys like Marino and Farve, learning how they carve up defenses.

Brady spent time behind Bledsoe, but you bet your tail end he also spent a lot of time studying film. He knew he was going to have to work harder than everyone else because he was a 6th rd pick, too many mistakes and a 6th rder isn't a huge investment they would move on so Brady had to dig deep and find an edge.

I like Mayfield, I hope he is our guy at QB for the next 15 years. Talent just oozes from this young man, he easily our best QB prospect in 30 years. He has to want to be great though...this offseason he needs to be a film watching machine, I have no doubt he could be in Canton one day, but he needs to recognize that he doesn't have things figured out, he needs to humble himsef, and he needs to study the only master left in the NFL, and thats like Brady. It takes a lot of time and boring time to study a master, but Mayfield wants to be as great as he pops off with his mouth, then he needs to get to work and get started.

if you watched any of those videos... he openly says that he took time away from football.

yet... you are saying that you don't buy that he took time off?


c'mon man...


there are plenty of articles saying he was struggling do you still not believe it?

Joe Thomas is now getting after him.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/08...eason-game.html

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/...and-unsettling/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zI-pEscdsE

https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/conten...-than-football/


https://nypost.com/2019/06/14/baker-mayfields-blunt-leadership-is-causing-browns-problems/


https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/...40-e60320f36c40

J/C

Can anyone explain how they know exactly how much time he has taken off and how many hours he as spent in the film room? Seems if you are making a claim that he hasn't spent enough time in the film room, that you should have some statistics to back that. IF not, there is absolutely 0 truth or backing to your claims.

Based on your arguments, we could say its the oline that didn't spend anytime in the gym and that's why bakers pressured so much forcing him to make bad throws.....

The problem...well one of MANY .. is that your equating two bad games to a lack of film study, but completely neglecting the fact we are not running the same offense than we did last year, a different tempo, different players, a sub par oline, and the added pressure of national attention and media scrutiny. Yeah, im sure NONE of that factors into his 2 bad games, and its all on your scientific studies of his off time.

I wonder if some of the ones questioning baker are the same ones saying OBJ wasn't going to be ready for the season because he skipped OTAs, only to watch him go off for 160+ yards and a TD. ….

SMH.

This is all based on one game by Rudolph, and no real solid evidence when it comes to Baker.

I think it’s an awful take. I mean, you’re basing this off very little evidence.

There’s never been any question (besides your own) of Baker’s work ethic and film study. In fact, from what I remember, he blew the staff away at the combine and his private interview.

From there, I thought he read defenses better than pretty much any rookie I’ve ever seen.



I’m not seeing what you’re seeing. You’re basing his lack of work this year off two games, him getting married and a tweet about playing Halo. I think that’s ridiculous


And This judgement of Mason Rudolph is a bit early here. Very early.

Guy’s thrown 19 passes this year. None last year. I mean, that’s not much of a sample size to tell you much at all

I think people see a different perception of Mayfield on the field this year. He certainly looks different than the last half of the season last year.

Most of us seem to think it's due to a total difference in scheme and how poorly our talent lines up with the new scheme. Those are actually things that can be backed up with obvious positions of weakness at the OT, TE and FB positions. We simply lack the ability to protect him on long developing plays and the way our opponents are disguising their D's along with our O getting up to the LOS late isn't a positive either.

Still others are looking for other reasons or to combine issues which includes relying more on gut feelings and perceptions.

Agreed, and personal biases against the kid.

Maybe for some. On a personal level most people know I wish he would just shut up and play football sometimes.

But that has nothing to do with how I feel about him as a player or hard worker. I have no problem separating the two.

I wasn't pointing you out. Even in your criticism of him, you are at least fair in your critiques. But you have to admit, the kid gets a lot of undeserved crap around here from people looking for ANYTHING to bash him on, and such as this OP, are way off base or deserved.

I thought I had pretty much covered that on the post you quoted me on above. But in case there is any doubt, I agree with you.

So he took time off. He had just come off a tremendous season that really started for him his senior year in college. Then the pre-draft workouts, then coming into the pros, then being thrust into a starter's spot. He also had to settle into a new life, a marriage, and get his financial house in order. I think that accounts a lot for the "sophomore slump" that so many pros experience.

I'll wait and see how the season progresses. Personally, I see 8-8 if we're really lucky this year and that'll be good enough to set us up for a few years to come.

I'm not going to go nuts over the Rams game because there's no way we beat them. The Browns aren't that kind of team yet. They will be but it's just not there yet.

dogg, in June of 2017 baker began preparing for the Oklahoma season. Football was continuous for him into mid January of 2018. Then prep began for the combine. He was drafted followed by rookie camp , otas training camp, and a 16 game pro season thru end of December 2018. 18 months of virtually continuous football. And you are annoyed he took a break?? Really?? I think it was probably good for his physical and mental well-being.

That said, I think next off season should be and will be a different matter. Hopefully he will apply himself to improving himself. I am not sure if the cba prevents a player from working with his position coach but either he does that or seeks help elsewhere. I do think a qb needs to be careful about having too many sources giving him different advice and creating confusion. We don’t want that. But baker has always worked hard to excel and I expect that to continue.

So baker sets rookie records over 13 games and you use 1/2 a game to determine that mason r. is way ahead of him. I wonder how many gms would take mason over baker right now? Not many.

I see issues with the offense but I wonder how much of it is expectations.. we didn't expect to come into this season and see Baker from last year, we expect much better than Baker from last year. Giant expectations, build-up, and hype followed by a really poor week 1 opening, it's going to take some time to get over that both statistically and in the perception people have.

His stats are skewed because of the egg the whole team laid in week 1, Baker being a part of that... But constantly being behind the chains with penalties didn't help. He really has come up against the perfect storm.. week 1 the whole team let each other down, week 2 he plays a weaker team but a D-coordinator that knows his tendencies better than anybody in the league..

It's year 2, teams have adjusted to him.. it's up to Freddie and Monken to counter adjust the offense to put him in good positions... I'm not worried about his willingness to work hard...

See - this is the garbage that makes me think this post is entirely about your pre-disposition to hating on Baker than any serious football take.

You're proclaiming after half a game from one rookie QB how superior he is while dismissing a half a season where Baker basically played as well as or arguably better than ANY ROOKIE QB IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE NFL.

It smacks of posts from last year which posed the question - do we still need to take a QB with our first round pick?

Others have been kinder - I'll call it what it is - garbage.

This is the NFL. Anything can happen, any week.

I think we have a shot against the Rams. I wouldn't put money on us. But i'll certainly be excited about the game.

I'm putting money on us.

You all should join me.

This post is........at best poorly thought out.

To be honest, it’s more hot garbage than poorly thought out.

Hey, more insults from the Baker crowd.

Are you currently or ever been an athlete?
Do you or does anyone in your immediate family play college/semipro or professional sports?

Most everyone who is in that position knows when someone slacked in the offseason. Baker slacked. You can see it.

IDK why you are defending that tooth and nail?

I have said countless times he will be fine etc. I hope he leads the team to hundreds of victories and more super bowls than Brady. He is a professional and he will learn from it.

I still don't understand how or why you are trying to blame everything else in the book. I have provided you with tons of references saying.. Baker said he slacked. Freddie said he told Baker to take time off. I have videos of Baker saying he took a ton of time off..


He looks different.
He is not reading the field or he doesn't know all of the offense well enough yet.
When he does read the field... he is late on his throws

Someone also changed his mechanics and when he is releasing his passes.
Last year in his drops he was much more smooth, in rhythm, and he looked comfortable.
Last year... he would do his crab walk and fire usually right after the end of his drop

This year, he does his crab walk and doesn't know what to do with the football.
He is too busy moshing up and down like a moron vs finishing the crab walk and firing the football. *indication he is still learning his new mechanics and or the playbook
He is not driving his front foot/knee and passes are sailing on him. He is not finishing in a triangle when there is a clean pocket.
He is not throwing the ball in under 3 seconds.
He is patting the ball before he releases it.
He is doing things that players pick up bad habits when they don't have enough practice or bad coaching.
All of these things happen because he didn't get enough practice.


Here you are saying... NOPE. That's not true at all! No ones really know how hard Baker worked etc etc etc

Mixed right in with more negativity from the anti baker and freddie crowd.

Well, it is an unprovable, ill-informed, and inflammatory post,

What should it be called?

I didn't insult anyone.

But, I'll stop because I see that you are back to following me around again.

A lot of negativity up in here.

Remind me not to play any video games 7 months before my job starts. Come on now, a post from January about playing a video game is suppose to underscore a lack of drive and commitment?

A bit harsh I feel.

I'm fairly certain I didn't say you insulted anyone. But, carry on with your anti Baker and anti Freddie agenda. It's fun to read.

I don't know if that is true. Did he miss mini camps or sit out any practice sessions? The coaches aren't allowed to have much contact with the players when it isn't NFLPA allowed.

Now, that said, I agree with a lot of the other points you made.

One mitigating factor is as a rookie, that is a long season going from college season right in to the NFL draft process. He needed some down time last year. He also got married.

But if Monken has tried to change his mechanics, that is going to hamper things.

I’m not really sure why Monken would try to change much period, let alone Baker’s mechanics.

You all are much smarter than I am when it comes to X’s and O’s And understanding schemes, etc ... all I know is from the eye ball test this offense and Baker’s performance are way worse than last season. It doesn’t even look similar ... and Baker, who I thought was extremely decisive, confident, and accurate last year ... looks awful now

See - this I agree with 100%. Although "Awful" is too strong a word. Awful compared to last year ... sure. Below average this year as it pertains to comparing him to other average QB's in the league.

Why? It could be a number of things, including time with OBJ and company, the multiple changes in personnel, Freddie being a first time HC and adjusting to the enormity of the job, play calling, changes in the scheme, being asked to make changes at the line which is all new this year, Williams having trained against him for a year ... hell, if you want to speculate on stuff that we have absolutely no way of knowing or proving, it might even be that in the off-season when the young man got married he didn't focus as much as he should have on football.

It's probably a combination of all the things I mentioned and depending on your dislike of Baker, you can throw in the pure speculation part too. It may even be that he's bulked up too much and muscled up too much, I can't be sure but he might look slightly beefier.

Bottom line I hope for improvement and quickly ... in all aspects of his play and the play calling.

Yeah, awful in relation to last year of course ... and I agree w/your reasons. It’s probably a myriad. I just know the offense doesn’t even look similar with anything we do.

And quickly would be an understatement haha ... we’d better get WAY better within the next 2 weeks or else our season is toast

Given how well the O under Kitchens/Mayfield worked last year ... really worked outstandingly well. I wonder why in the heck it wasn't the basis for this year's O. I mean - add wrinkles, plays, formations.... but build on what worked? ... to me that smacks of thinking they are smarter than the rest of the world but that's pure speculation on my part.

Could be ... just that they want to be even more difficult to defend and catch people off guard, but it’s simply not working (and I honestly don’t think this new approach will)

When in doubt, KISS ... keep it simple stupid