DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Will Mayfield work head enough to be great?

Is Baker having trouble with his reads or are guys not open when he is reading them? It kind of seems like our reads are going deep to short. We have guys open underneath at times, but how do we know what order in the progression they are?

I think we'll dial up more quick throws as the season progresses. Someone may have gotten a bit too excited about his new toy (OBJ.) I'm not sure who that someone is, Baker/Freddie/Monken or more likely a combination, but we have time to sort it out. Teams are trying to take OBJ away, but he's good enough to beat them anyway. It would seem that we might be expecting him to win a bit too much and might be slowing down as we wait for him to do so. OBJ didn't play much in the preseason. Is it any wonder he's not fully integrated yet?

The Patriots often "struggle" in September, but everyone forgets it come December.

This is a valid point, but there’s a few problems with that thinking: if we struggle early and end up like 2-5 this thing could fall apart. We don’t have the history, franchise, or leadership for the players to trust IMO. FK is not BB. Baker is not Brady.

Not only that, but we have such a brutal stretch that we’ll end up 2-5 or 2-6 .... the Patriots “struggle” and still end up 4-2 or 5-2

Playing in the AFC (L)east has its benefits. *shrug*

It could fall apart. Or it could come together. I think its too soon to run around claiming the sky is falling (not that you in particular necessarily are.)

No offense, but I don't like when people try to compare us in a favorable light to the Patriots. Our two organizations and teams are light years apart.

I do agree that it's too early to say the sky was falling, but I tried to warn folks this off-season that it was too early to anointing them as a great team.

I am quite positive that Baker will put the work in.

He has been a winner everywhere he has been and nothing has been given to him.

I think he is a bit too hyped up and consistently trying to pull off great highlight type plays. I am sure he has studied the tape of the last 2 games and we should see some corrections.

I also believe the coaches should make some adjustments to limit his desire to hold the ball for so long.

Speaking for myself, I did know that they wouldn't be great. I thought they would start out pretty mediocre, but instead they started out pretty awful. Big regressions in areas that I wouldn't have expected (even with people on here chirping about it... like team discipline).

I think I'm going to go back to the same mindset of the past 5 or so years... withhold judgement on the team until the end of the year, because the team has so much growing to do over the course of the season.

j/c

I think for people to be objective they should be looking at the difference in scheme and protection for the obvious answers. It's plain as day. It's been pointed out by those that actually know the game better than most posters here on this board.

I believe the rest of the theories are conjecture at best.

We have posted about it.

I don't consider myself to know better than most posters on the board. I am not an X and O guy, I am the first to admit.

But if I am PLAINLY seeing these issues, that says something.

And saying the guy with 19 career NFL passes to his name is already significantly better than the guy who contended for ROY last year isn't an insult?

dc, I certainly do not want to be labeled part of the “baker crowd”. There are few things worse than being seen as supporting our quarterback. Has there been anything in baker mayfield’s history to suggest that he has been a malingerer??That he does not want to work hard? Or has his history been that he comes in and busts his butt to make a team as a walk-on , works even harder to win a starting job and then works even harder to win the heisman.

Anyone with an open mind can see what the evidence shows.

I agree. Two games after setting the bar awfully high last year. My answer is yes. We are going out of our way to criticize BM. And the looneytoons "experts" are hardly worth my time in my opinion; I have little respect for them. Drumming up negatives so you can pretend you had an interview is wretched. Any other lesser QB's getting this vile type of treatment and belittling second-guessing? BM is only a target because of his success and work. My answer is yes. He just is learning more about what will be required. All this tarnishing does not help.

I'm not saying we're the Patriots. However, they are an example that teams can struggle early and still go on to do well.

Sadly we seem to be getting closer to the Patriots in a few ways ("criminal" owners, taking in other teams troubled but talented cast offs, etc.) Let's hope we can get closer in the winning in January way, too. We've a long road to go.

J/C




Another coach impressed with Mayfields WORK ETHIC

I'm certainly not questioning Baker's work ethic. Because like I believe about every poster on this board, with the exception of maybe one, I don't think any of us know about the off season to say how much time he spent watching film and preparing.

But I would have to ask how much Dungy actually knows about those same things? I mean he may have seen him a few days in camp, but that's a snapshot and not a full view of his off season.

I know there are those on both sides of this that have their heels dug in. But I think my question is one that deserves to be asked.

That’s a calming voice from Dungy as I’d expect ... the hope is he’s going through growing pains (as is our coaching staff) ... we gotta learn quickly tho

We don't have to learn quickly.

The most important thing about this season is Mayfield. And the 15 seasons after that.

If it takes some lumps this season to continue his growth than so be it. The idiot fans will turn on him but hopefully we have an organization in place that uses their heads.

There should be growth seen as the season progresses. If not we have a big problem. That problem may not revolve around Mayfield, but the fact is we have far too much talent to show little to no progress from where we are now over the course of the season.

Define growth.

What is it exactly you want to see?

If the rest of Mayfield's season plays out like the first two games, what does that mean to you?

It could mean that the coaching staff isn't designing the scheme to fit where he is in his development. It could mean the play calling isn't designed to take advantage of his strengths. It could mean that he isn't progressing as one would expect. It could mean a host of things.

I would have to take a look at what is and isn't going on over the course of the season to make an informed opinion at that time.

That's why I said it may not revolve around Mayfield.

But we do have too much talent on O not to be more productive. At the present time with the limited amount of information to go on, it looks like the scheme more than anything else to me.

I was talking about how some are insulting other posters. Not the player.

But, for what it's worth......saying that Mason is better than Baker is something I totally disagree with.

I do think there could be an interesting discussion on Baker, but it won't happen on this board.

Baker has never been sacked in a 2 TE set.

Has anyone told Freddie this and asked him why we don't see more 2 TE sets?

Bc our TEs suck.

2 TE sets? With Harris and Brown. ugh

I might be the only one, but I agree w/you. Here are some things I know:

--Our OTs are not the best, especially Hubbard
--Baker holds the ball longer than he should
--Those two things taken together spell trouble
--The Browns did better last year when they began running more 21, 12, and 13 personnel
--This team has a plethora of weapons, including OBJ, Chubb, Landry, Higgins, etc. We will eventually have Callaway and Hunt. These players are very capable of winning their battles.

Thus, I don't think our TEs need to be great, but the extra blocking should help the offense.

I was talking about this the other day. Because of all these things, Freddie needs to begin with running more, then working in quicker, short drop timing plays that allow the extremely talented receiving corps to win their battles and force Baker to get rid of the ball more quickly, at the top of his drop. He has the arm and the accuracy to do that effectively. When they get those two things workings, play-action will open up and so will longer pass plays. Right now everything looks like a cluster frak with him only reading half the field and waiting for the long play to develop. Whatever it is they think they're doing now, isn't working.

oddly enough... the announcers on SNF are pointing out these same things.

You had different announcers than the rest of us then... or you heard what you wanted to hear instead of what they actually said

jc

my biggest worry was that week by week, this thread would go from mind boggling to "ehhh what if he has a point".

please....lets turn it around quickly.

I don't know him personally but I'm sure Baker is putting in the time. He is one good OL away from being great.

and a good coach/scheme ... and he’s gotta own up too

Baker is not reading coverages quickly enough and is often making bad reads. That has to be owned, too.

Not sure if there was a misunderstanding but I wasn't maligning Baker or anybody defending Baker.. I was, in fact, defending Baker myself... but I will do so as objectively as I can.

I think Baker has and will work hard, be a good teammate, and want to be here. With that said, I'm not 100% sure that his work this offseason was focused on the areas where it should have been. I don't know exactly what he did so I may be off base. But based on the first 3 weeks of this season, Baker's 2 biggest areas of improvement need to be:
1. Defense recognition - He has been confused consistently when his pre-snap read is incorrect and they jump into a different defense.
2. Read progression - He seems to get rattled and "panic" when his first read isn't available which has led to sacks and unnecessarily bailing on decent pockets.

I think he will figure it out but seems to me he needs more time in the film room and less time in the weight room... just my $.02.

Baker needs to shut up.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/baker-mayfield-antonio-brown-instagram-shade-022040157.html




Baker Mayfield takes classic shot at Antonio Brown on Instagram
Yahoo Sports Jack Baer,Yahoo Sports 11 hours ago
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It really was only a matter of time until Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield aimed his well-known penchant for shade at free agent wide receiver Antonio Brown.

[Watch live NFL games on the Yahoo Sports app, here's how]

Brown, as many know, is in the middle of one of the most demented few months for a player in NFL history, including feuds with former Pittsburgh Steelers teammates, cryotherapy frostbite and an ill-advised attempt to paint his unsafe helmet so he could practice in it, among other things. He is also facing sexual assault allegations and has been accused of harassment from a different sexual misconduct accuser, which means it could be a while before he returns to the NFL.

With all of that context, it appears Mayfield — whose team has disappointed with a 1-2 start — just couldn’t resist when a commenter on his Instagram post compared his behavior to Brown’s.


As of Friday night, Brown has not responded to Mayfield’s snipe ... yet.

Brown is just a day removed from a highly personal Twitter fight with Los Angeles Rams safety Eric Weddle, who has played faced off with Brown several times as a member of the Baltimore Ravens.

With another former division rival taking shots at him, it might only be a matter of time until Brown logs on. Outside of training at high schools and participating in depositions, he doesn’t have much else to do.


link to the twitter post:



https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1177702915039023105?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1177702915039023105&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs.yimg.com%2Faaq%2Fyc%2Fhtml%2Fembed-iframe-min.2d7457d4.html

I’ve already grown tired of the stupid noise with this team ... and it only gets worse with each loss

He does need to shut up but at least that one was funny as hell ...

Hilarious!

And yet baker is the one with the police video.

It was. Until Brown fired back pointing out that the only place Baker would say that is on twitter and never to his face because AB would light him up. Then he pointed out that Baker has done nothing in the league.

Sometimes when someone refutes humor with facts the humor loses its luster.

Not to me ... i still think its funny as hell ...