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My first thought was: Where is this massive playbook that Brady has not yet mastered? Do we actually think Derek has it mastered?
Someone else already said it best....If the starter is playing like a rookie, why not play the rookie? I agree. Put Brady in or admit you're afraid to get him beat up and you're willing to let Derek eat crap for the rest of the season.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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INACCURACY... Now there's the REAL problem...Whether it be from his footwork is really not important...What's important is that he makes throws under ZERO PRESSURE that just make u say "WTF WAS THAT GOIN???"...That's a MAJOR PROBLEM...
U cannot display his type of consistent inaccuracy at this level...It will KILL drives at any time...YOUTH has very little to do with it...He has always been a low 50's percent QB...If it was in having YOUTH related problems reading coverages...He could very well improve those completion figures...IT'S NOT...He's flat out not an accurate QB...It's the one thing he's consistent at...
Anderson hasn't learned several things,if he can..
One you don't rely on your arm to force throws..and you learn to survey the field..
He doesn't have good accuracy in deeper throws, and hasn't learned to put some touch on his throws...
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DA's problem, like all of our QBs is that he's young, thats it.
Disagree, vehemently.
I've watched Anderson all through his college years. He's ALWAYS had the same problems that he has now.
The very reason that Anderson has always been hot and cold stems from the fact that he can't read defenses.
When a specific play design leads to a receiver getting open at a specific point in the route, Anderson has the arm and the release to hit him. Sometimes he loses the strike-zone, but that's a seperate problem. When a defense doesn't allow the designed play to work properly, Anderson doesn't have the ability to get off his primary. In fact, the REAL issue is that he'll still throw the ball, regardless of whether or not a defensive player is standing right there.
That's how he threw his first INT. He never saw the linebacker, despite staring right at him. He threw it anyway.
That isn't youth. That's a slow mind that can't process the speed of the NFL. Truth is he had that problem in college, and obviously, the speed of the college game isn't close to what's in the NFL.
If anyone has taped the games, or can get their hands on a bit torrent of it, watch when he goes through his pump fakes. He'll throw the ball even if the safety doesn't bite. If the receiver is open, he can hit the guy. If he's not, Anderson STILL throws the ball, and that's the problem.
Anderson always had the ability. The sad reality is that his mind isn't fast enough to process the information. That's the reason he fell to the 6th round, and that's the reason he threw two INT's, and should have thrown more on Sunday. He isn't going to get better. What you see now is what you'll always see.
And Hew, you can't play the youth card as an excuse for his poor play, then turn right around and use the stats from his 4th start in the league as a viable tool to make a positive point. You have to go by what you see on each and every play, and realize what he can, and can't, do.
For those that are as old as I am, Derek Anderson is this generations Jay Shroeder: A guy with an amazing fastball, but he can't read defenses, and he loses the strike-zone. I think he's worth keeping as a backup, but as soon as Quinn is up to speed, he's got to get in the game.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
as soon as Quinn is up to speed, he's got to get in the game.
I agree.
Question...Much was said that Quinn would have had a good shot at the starter job had he not held out.
What did he miss....16 or so practices??
How many more weeks of "catching up" does the guy need to make up for that missed time??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
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as soon as Quinn is up to speed, he's got to get in the game.
I agree.
Question...Much was said that Quinn would have had a good shot at the starter job had he not held out.
What did he miss....16 or so practices??
How many more weeks of "catching up" does the guy need to make up for that missed time??
IMO, it's not that Quinn isn't ready now to go in and start. He probably doesn't have everything mastered, but I'd bet he has enough working knowledge of the system to run a sizeable chunk of the playbook. At this point, it's probably a schedule issue more than anything. Even if Quinn is ready now, I can't imagine the coaches want him to open up against one of the most complex defenses in the NFL (Baltimore), only to follow that up with another complex and frustrating defense in New England.
Even if Quinn is 90% ready now, which is probably enough to justify starting him, it makes good sense to let him get even more prepared while sheltering him from the next two weeks of slaughter. After that string, we have the option of either starting him before the bye versus Miami (0-3) whose defense has been subpar thus far or after the bye against the Rams (0-3) whose defense wasn't that good to begin with.
We start Quinn now, we risk damaging his confidence. We let Anderson suck for two weeks and start Quinn against the cupcakes, and his confidence may soar. That, IMO, is worth watching two more weeks of horrendous Anderson reads and throws.
Plus, how sweet would it be to see Quinn debut and crush the team that should've taken him in the first place? 
We're... we're good?
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I understand that. Part of that is now timing.
It was said that once we go with Quinn, there is no turning back...and I agree with that.
I think the team is waiting for Anderson to get dinged in a game...nothing serious....maybe something that causes him to limp a little...nothing that would normally take a qb out of the game...then hold him out saying they wanted to use caution.
Then put Quinn in and see how it goes. If he does great.....great.
If not, Anderson is all of a sudden healed in a series or two and goes back in the game. Then the team can then say they never really wanted to stick Quinn in but had to do so because of a injury and Anderson is still next weeks starter.
Once Quinn starts, that is how it has to stay once they have made that decision. I think they want circumstance to be fashioned in a way they have a out.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
Question...Much was said that Quinn would have had a good shot at the starter job had he not held out.
What did he miss....16 or so practices??
How many more weeks of "catching up" does the guy need to make up for that missed time??
I don't know the answer.. but one practice now is certainly not equivalent to one practice then... he would have seen a wider variety of stuff then, now he is only seeing this weeks gameplan stuff, he would have taken more snaps if he was in contention to start... now he's been the back-up for a few weeks, he's only getting "back-up reps", which isn't all that many... He's probably getting almost no time with the first team receivers.... So I agree, that he should be pretty close to being caught up... but as I said, the first 16 practices is different than 16 "in-season" practices...
yebat' Putin
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You are correct, good post.
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Personally, I get the feeling from the sportscasters around here that a decision to go with Quinn is set in stone for the first game after the bye.. I don't put a lot of store in what the media says really, but that actually makes some sense...
I also get the feeling that it doesn't matter how good Anderson may play,, Again, this is from media reports...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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No matter how good Anderson plays now and then, you can always point to his inconsistency as the reason he was replaced....
I still say that Quinn should play BEFORE the bye, even if it's in relief... give him a half or so and let him see the field, then let him have that 2 weeks to process what he saw and work on it...
yebat' Putin
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I understand the whole deal on practices is different. But the question is when he understands the material.
The stuff about not getting work with the first team in practice doesn't mean much....or it means he will never be ready since he isn't working with the 1st team.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I've been right with you about Anderson since the start. I think Frye will be better than he has shown but agree with you he should have never even have been brought to camp. I disagree with you about Frye not being better than Anderson but he is a horrible fit for this offense and Savage and Romeo should have known that. He can't make many of the passes required in this offense on a consistant basis. Anderson has a great arm and is a good fit in this offense, that is if you can look pass his inconsistancy, lack of ability to read any defense, horrible decision making and his wild inaccuracy.
I still do not think Anderson is now or will ever be a viable backup. We should have traded Frye long ago an brought in a vet with the proper skill set to compete with Anderson.
We wasted all of camp trying to decide if Anderson could earn the starting job from someone who was unable to run the offense. Rac and/or Savage should be held accountable for that mess but many want to gloss over it.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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as soon as Quinn is up to speed, he's got to get in the game.
I agree.
Question...Much was said that Quinn would have had a good shot at the starter job had he not held out.
What did he miss....16 or so practices??
How many more weeks of "catching up" does the guy need to make up for that missed time??
I personally don't buy the thinking that he'd have had a good shot at starting if he hadn't of held out. RAC has never liked rookies, and I believe that handing the keys to Quinn is an admission that the season is done in terms of contending. I think that's part PR machine, part indictment against Anderson and Frye, and part simply nothing more than wanting to have something to talk about. No way RAC would have gone into the season with Quinn as the starter. Hell, truth be told, from what I've read, Quinn looked better than either of those two when he did play, so if it really came down to who was best, RAC would have gone with Quinn. Since they essentially admitted that they had to dump part of the playbook just to accomodate Frye, then they could have dumbed down the playbook to accomodate Quinn. They didn't.
So, how much more time does he need? DC covers that rather well. I'd also note that in camp, Quinn would get plenty of reps. During the season, he doesn't get much at all.
The unspoken, badly kept secret is that the bye-week belongs to Quinn. I suppose the only guy that has anything to say about that is Anderson. You can bet your bottom dollar that RAC doesn't want to have to put Quinn in, so he's pulling for Anderson.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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When they traded Frye, RAC said Quinn would be spliting reps with Anderson.
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Quote:
When they traded Frye, RAC said Quinn would be spliting reps with Anderson.
I agree. It is normal for the second guy to split reps.
The 3rd team guy runs the scout O and the other 2 qbs split time with the first team.
It might not be a 50/50 split....probably more like 60/40.....70/30....but he has been working with the first team.
If not, chalk up another reason Romeo needs to go.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quinn has been working with the 1st team. The problem is that you don't have 2 a days and focus on developing and learning. You are preparing for the next game. That is going to slow the process.
Having said that, I expect to see Quinn get a series here and there before the bye week and then take over after that.
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I agree with that.
The focus of practice chages a great deal from "pure practice" and that of a practice working a gameplan.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
When they traded Frye, RAC said Quinn would be spliting reps with Anderson.
I didn't catch that (obviously). Had I taken a few more moments to consider it, I would have figured that out, since moving Frye was the removal of a hurdle to getting Quinn into the game. Duh! *L*
However, that does confirm one of my points. Getting Quinn involved sacrifices the season. When you have two QB's, you have none (as the old cliche goes). Hell, I guess you could put the dunce caps on RAC and Savage and claim that we had no less than THREE QB's 
Under normal circumstances (you know, where we're actually TRYING to do whatever we can to prepare to win games) Anderson would be getting all the reps, as he's got a whopping 5 starts under his belt, and needs the work.
I better not see a situation where RAC starts to insert Quinn into the games here and there. If he's going to go that route, might as well go ahead and bench Anderson now and hand the reigns to Quinn. Anderson needs all the game reps he can get if we're going to actually win some games.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I better not see a situation where RAC starts to insert Quinn into the games here and there
The quote from Phil was like this..."when we put Quinn in it's for good.
We aren't going to put him and yank him, its for the long haul"....
So when he goes in it should be permanent...
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Quote:
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When they traded Frye, RAC said Quinn would be spliting reps with Anderson.
I didn't catch that (obviously). Had I taken a few more moments to consider it, I would have figured that out, since moving Frye was the removal of a hurdle to getting Quinn into the game. Duh! *L*
However, that does confirm one of my points. Getting Quinn involved sacrifices the season. When you have two QB's, you have none (as the old cliche goes). Hell, I guess you could put the dunce caps on RAC and Savage and claim that we had no less than THREE QB's
Under normal circumstances (you know, where we're actually TRYING to do whatever we can to prepare to win games) Anderson would be getting all the reps, as he's got a whopping 5 starts under his belt, and needs the work.
I better not see a situation where RAC starts to insert Quinn into the games here and there. If he's going to go that route, might as well go ahead and bench Anderson now and hand the reigns to Quinn. Anderson needs all the game reps he can get if we're going to actually win some games.
Arizona's gonna be doing musical QB's with Kurt Warner and Matt Leinart.
Titans did it with Vince Young last year.
Even though I agree with you to an extent.
Last edited by Ammo; 09/26/07 12:06 PM.
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OT, I think you have to get Quinn's feet wet in a game before he starts. I want him to experience real game experience while not dealing with the pressures of starting just to get his first taste of a regular season game. I don't think you were saying you didn't want that, but I'm just making sure. I don't want a yo-yo with the starters, either.
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Yep, as soon as Anderson throws an incompletion against the Dolphins... YANK HIM!!! 
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I agree with that.
Goes back to the injury scenario I spelled out earlier.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
Arizona's gonna be doing musical QB's with Kurt Warner and Matt Leinart.
I thought about that situation before I posted, and immediately dismissed it. The reason is that it's really different than what we're discussing here.
In 'Zona, they are starting Leinart, then bringing in Warner. The rookie continues to be the starter, knowing that the vet is coming in to help win drives and (hopefully) the game.
To me, there's a fundamental difference, as the rook still knows he's the starter. Anderson doesn't have that luxury.
Now it can be said that we all know that Quinn is the man. But then again, they said that about Trent Green when Kurt Warner came in. Warner kept playing, got better, and never gave up the job.
In 'Diego, everyone knew that Rivers was the man, but Brees never let him get on the field. It can be speculated that the Chargers could have gotten more out of a trade of Rivers than letting Brees go. That's not concrete, just an example.
As Attack noted, Savage said once they switch to Quinn, it's a done deal. Sure, that sounds smart, but can we.......SHOULD we........really believe these HC's and GM's when they speak? No, we shouldn't. The very nature of the beast requires them to lie and distort the truth.
B, I have mixed feelings on getting him bits and pieces of game action. I'm still interested in winning games, and if we're pulling Anderson for drives at a time just to break Quinn in, we're sacrificing the season. I also feel that Quinn should be handed the reigns with the idea that once he's in there, it's for good. Part of that is because Derek "Shoe-size IQ" Anderson is a streak passer that needs to stay in the game to keep his mind in it.
Then there are issues about the various offensive units being forced to get used to two different cadances, timings, etc etc etc.
I know we have to prep Quinn for the future, but at this point in the season, I believe in trying to win games. We have enough firepower to compete for a while, and I think prepping two QB's undermines our chances of winning. Splitting reps four days before the game doesn't give either inexperienced QB enough work to give the team the best chance to win, especially against a defense like the Rats.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I think he's worth keeping as a backup, but as soon as Quinn is up to speed, he's got to get in the game.
Why backup...why not Quinn and a veteran? Wouldn't Frye have made a better backup or if not Frye then Dilfer? This brings us back to the original problem that our offense (coaches) was not working with our players. Evaluate and pick the best and work with the talents. I think Anderson gave us a chance to make quick throwns that looked like a true QB but maybe were wrong. We are strangely trying to copy success without the right talent.
I think Crennel saw this and picked Frye since we had so much invested in Frye and he was slowly improving...the Quinn draft destroyed his confidence. With all of the possible QBs available this year we end up with three without much experience. This reminds me of what happened with our Dline.
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My evil twin thinks the following.
If RAC and Savage really wanted a get out of jail free card, they would have started Quinn immediately. Sure the first part of the season would probably be lost, but no one would get on them for starting Quinn.
In reality, the looked at the schedule and decided to stick it out until the bye. If the QB (insert name) is playing well, Quinn would sit until such time that the Browns were out of playoff contention. If the Browns were in playoff contention, then Quinn is a non-factor.
Right now it looks like the Miami or week after the bye. Get Quinn comfortable with the drill, let him learn the plays, and work with Dorsey.
BTW it would make great media, if Quinn were to start the Miami game.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I hate to think that we may be losing our #1 QB pick. Will Quinn be a part of a long line of QB failures? The critical thing is not being able to throw or knowing the plays but getting timing and understanding the teams in our division. That is why I thought Frye would be better this year.
Quinn must get some experience but I don't expect miracles...just less ints. This is going to be a tough spot for a new QB...no expert advice or time with his WRs and a tough crowd. Who will we call for when Quinn fails???
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If Quinn fails the Browns will be set back another 3 years at least.
My guess is that Quinn will not be a failure. I believe that the Browns scouted him for the #3 selection, so when the opportunity arose to move up and get him, Savage was confident in his decision.
The biggest reason that I do not think Quinn will fail is his college experience and the conversations that occured between RAC/Savage and Wies. Quinn is about as clean of a QB coming out of college as you could expect. Frankly a lot better than any number of QB's drafted. All the BS about the accuracy was frankly draft-nic fodder, setting up the what if he fails discussion. If you look at performance, completion % and int's the numbers do not support the postulation.
Good or bad it was a sound decision.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
Who will we call for when Quinn fails???
by the time BQ is done his replacement very well may be playing on a Pop Warner field near U this Sunday ....
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Diam I go from seeing success to ..well you know. I think there is a big difference, Savage. He has shown basic understanding of how to build an offense...start with the Oline and get some help for your QB FIRST!!! We should be able to give Quinn some time and Lewis, Winslow, Edwards Jerevicous are always there for help. Quote:
Savage was confident in his decision
CHarger
I hope that we all will be. From watching Quinn he was usually very effective when he had time...leads his receivers and can even run. His big problem was with a heavy rush...think Steelers.
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I hate to think that we may be losing our #1 QB pick. Will Quinn be a part of a long line of QB failures? The critical thing is not being able to throw or knowing the plays but getting timing and understanding the teams in our division. That is why I thought Frye would be better this year.
Quinn must get some experience but I don't expect miracles...just less ints. This is going to be a tough spot for a new QB...no expert advice or time with his WRs and a tough crowd. Who will we call for when Quinn fails???
This is a prime example of a gun shy Browns fan. Why has losing and negativity become the norm? Oh I know winning is not expected here. The wait till next year syndrome has caught up to all of you. Read the sig! 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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His big problem was with a heavy rush...think Steelers.
he will make them pay ... that will take time but he will make them pay ...
and i'm curious ... go look up and se who has had CONSISTENT success against the stilers ..
Palmer maybe???? Brady has had a few good games agaisnt them but is it sustained conistent success???
SMART QB's with tool swill make them pay ... and BQ is that guy ... itsnot going to happen right away .. thats one of the things he will have to figure out .. but he has the TOOLS to do it ..
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Anderson answered this....
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