DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Lets talk...how do we fix this D (what needs to be done)

IMO there's really not a lot we can do to fix the D at this point, aside from players maturing and improving.

Eric Wright is a rookie, he's gonna get picked on and he's gonna have his moments. IMO he'll be playing better ball after the bye week. Something to be encouraged about: Palmer picked on him first, but after awhile switched to picking on Bodden. I just hope he doesn't look as dreadful as Leon Hall in the coming weeks.

Holly was out, and Holly IMO is everything you want in a nickel corner. Held his own on the outside and was a ballhawk in the process, throw him in the nickel role and he should excel.

Bodden was on a bad groin and Peek was on a bad foot.

Pool is still learning, although I'm not encouraged by what I see. Plus, he went out in the middle of the game.

Run-wise...had we just been able to wrap up *cough* Robaire Smith and D'Qwell Jackson *cough* we would have looked at least a little better stopping the run.

As far as the Pittsburgh game went...our D played hard in the first half but laid down in the 2nd half. Optimistically, I want to think that they were just tired from the offense consistently going 3 and out. Keep in mind the Steelers were basically spotted 10 points by the offense cuz the D had such a short field to work with.

We'll know a lot more about ourselves after this week against an offense that is no longer archaic like last year, but still has its weaknesses.

Add AD to that list of people who cant tackle.

I remember one play where he read the play...timed the snap...had Rudi in the backfield for a 4yd loss...TOTALLY blew the tackle...he ended up bouncing to the outside for like 5.

I'd agree Peen, You ALWAYS know who is going to blitz. I'd like to see us put the LB's on one side on the LOS like the blitz is coming from there. Then send the other side. It's not as if we'd have to do it constantly...but enough to keep em guessing.

I think that'd go a long way toward producing more sacks/pressures...without the all out blitzes.

I thought we were alot more aggressive than we have been against pitt...but not Cincy. Different game plans I guess. Even the Steelers game...we MIGHT have blitzed 25% of the time.

Now would be the time resume this discussion.
Is our D-line really this bad? Can't stop the run, can't get pressure. Is there anyone on the bench worse than what we have out there now on our line?

We don't control the line of scrimmage. When you can hand the ball off 13/15 times and control the clock for 9 minutes AND score . . . you lose.

If you look at those "intangibles" everyone talks about . . . turnovers, penalties, blown assignments . . . you have mental errors. These guys are either not prepared to play or are not "seasoned" yet like E.Wright or B.Pool.

The other part is the physical part and we have NO playmakers on LOS on the defensive side of things. We have a young secondary and an old line with decent lb'ers squeezed in between.

I would like to revisit this discussion in December and see if the E.Wrights and the B.Pools, and the Sean Jones take the bull by the horns without a Brian Russel there.

To reiterate what someone else said . . . we need to get creative with our blitzing and take some pressure off the secondary.

There are two things that I believe could REALLY help our secondary, and one of those is a HUGE ?,

first the one that I think is necessary and VERY doable:
-Move Eric Wright to the nickle back.
I still believe that kid can play, but right now, especially with no help deep, he needs some time. Moving him to the Nickle back will allow us to continue to get him significant time and adjust a little slower than what he is getting now. Holly has shown the ability to play this game and at this piont can do NO WORSE than what we have seen from our rookie.

Now for the questionable move:
-We NEED to put someone else in for Pool. I am HOPING that someone else could be Baxter. Pool is just playing way to much out of position and I feel this is affecting Jones as well. Pool can lay the hits, we have seen that, but he is just not making the plays we need him to make. The worst part about this is that he is NOT EVEN IN POSITION, to make those plays.
If Baxter, can't play yet then MAYBE the other Wright can fill in at this spot.
I guess I'll go ahead and admit now that I was wrong in my thoughts that we wouldn't miss Russell that much this yr. It's pretty obvious that our secondary is playing out of position way to much.

When an opposing team converts a third an twenty-somthing, your safeties are NOT making plays.

I agree and disagree... 1st and foremost letting Russel go was a big mistake. Period! The organization should have kept him one more year minumum. IMO.

If we move EW to nickle do we move KW to rplace him? KW is a very average @ best CB and veteran depth. EW needs experience... He very young and inexperinced only PT will help him improve. EW is our best CB from a speed, athletic skill and potetial stand point. He has to play to improve. IMO. Holly a stater? He' better suited for the nickle. He got beat last year as much with less PT... He's a 5th or 6th guy, ST'er in the NFL not a starting DB, yet.

Pool is young and needs experience and PT. I'm diappointed in his overall play so far. But he has shown some signs of improvemnet. He will get beat and be out of position because he to is young and inexperinced. I'm an OU guy but this is the NFL and it takes time for guys from programs that aren't from pass D schools a little longer to catch on.

Time and patience is what needs to happen with our youth on D... We knew this would happen this year. The CS can't yank the young guys, they have to learn by playing and experience... They are not going to learn how to play buy watching from the sidelines. They need time to learn and grow...

It's hard to watch these young guys make mistakes and get beat and be out of postion, but we all should have know this is where the Browns D is in the secondary. IMO, only real time, in the fire PT and experience will get them where we need to be. Yanking guys shows little confidence and patience... This has been happening far too much with our team since 1999. The Browns have to trust the systems and players and give them the opportunities needed to grow learn, mature and improve. No matter how difficult it is for us... To many changes is a huge reason the Browns are where they are.

Just think how the CS and organization feels? They are the one responsible for winning and paying the bills. They have to stay the course and not pull the plug too soon. JMO's.

Next year the Browns need quality depth @ safety. They first and foremost need to upgrade all the talent on the D-Line. The organization realizes this. We shall see... Take care, hang in and enjoy!

P.S. I still believe that our D needs two more quality run stopping LBs...

I'm not for benching people unless you have better or smarter players to come in..
Rac needs to get TG to do some creative things on D..
Of course TG was no guru in Houston so I wonder if he ISN'T PART OF THE PROBLEM TOO?

The interior Dline are not very athletic. Roye is the best of the bunch, but he's getting oldish and isn't a speed guy anyway.
R. Smith is solid, but he and Roye aren't going to cover much ground.
Obviously S. Smith isn't either, and Ted is a huge liability. So....they need the LBs to make plays.
I'd stunt, angle, and pinch these big guys as much as possible to create havoc, along with run blitzing the LBs frequently.

We seem to be jumping into a 4-2-5 nickel look in passing situations with Wimbley and Peek at DE, and Simon Frasier/Robaire Smith/Orpheus Roye manning the weak side A and strong side B gaps. I don't like it.

I'd rather go to more of a true 3-4 look and play an odd front. This means a NT over the center, guys over the tackles, and an OLB/rush LB sometimes called an elephant standing up and bringing it. Better yet, a 3-3 look with only one true DL at NT, rushing one or two LBs every play.

My wrinkle would be to put Wimbley and Thompson over the OTs, with Peek at the elephant position. Acnhor the line with Roye at the NT position, and let him attack. For a stronger front, PUT R. Smith or even McGinest (when he comes back) at one DE spot over a tackle and rotate an OLB out.

Having multiple OLBs rushing allows you to zone blitz, and bring Dra/Leon/DQ and drop the OLB into coverage.

with Wimbley rushing every down we basically use a 4-3. If Wimbley was to drop back more than 2 times a game.

We do need to try anything to stop the run. If something isnt working then the coaches should go with the 4-4ish thing. What ever it takes is my new motto

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Rac needs to get TG to do some creative things on D..
Of course TG was no guru in Houston so I wonder if he ISN'T PART OF THE PROBLEM TOO?

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Mercy...Don't say that man...

Apparently Grantham is Cherished around here...I start a thread Sunday and it gets deleted...I get numerous PM's as to where it went...Obviously there was interest in it...But whatever...

Anyway...I haven't been able to rewatch any game yet...What's the run problem here???...Could it be as simple as bringing that Safety into the box???...Is it Wright's inexperience and Bodden's Groin problem preventing it???...Pool not yet up to speed???

It's not as simple as saying the front 3 suck...Studs???...NO...But NFL Caliber???...YES they are...There's HUGE holes at times...WHY??????????

I have to say what I see..no tackling fundamentals..
Guys not staying in their gaps..
We're not using the 34 the way it should be used...
First the run problem...the Dline is being handled easily..part of is Ted..while massive..he 's too old to do much with his body...so it's easy for the center to lock on to him...

The ends are being pinched inside and they're not getting penetration to blow up the LOS...
The LB's are not coming up and popping in the holes...I hate that they play 4 -5 yards off the LOS..
We're not making the offense account for everyone...they know exactly play to play where everyone is lined up..especially Wimbley..

We don't move people around ..we use a basic front..we don't overload either tackle box..no confusion created..
They don't bring Jones up because you have a rookie who's getting burned and a FS who doesn't seem to know how to get everyone lined up and know his own assignment..